{"id":118824,"date":"2025-02-25T19:07:15","date_gmt":"2025-02-25T23:07:15","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118824"},"modified":"2026-02-18T15:44:27","modified_gmt":"2026-02-18T19:44:27","slug":"197-chicago","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/197-chicago\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 197. \u201cI thought he was the problem\u2026 but it\u2019s me?!\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cI thought he was the problem\u2026 but it\u2019s me?!\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/eA8cXzP7024\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\"><\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\"><\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\"><\/span><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\"><\/span><\/iframe><br \/>\n<iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/5mksTPycVpOE2zpUZW39iO?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Live from the House of Blues in Chicago, Ramit coaches Evelyn and Mike (41).<\/p>\n<p>Despite their successful careers, money is a constant source of tension. Evelyn scrutinizes every purchase, while Mike feels frustrated by the endless debates over small expenses. Can Evelyn let go of her scarcity mindset and start trusting their financial future?<\/p>\n<p>Plus, stay tuned for a surprise visit from one of the past guests of Netflix\u2019s\u00a0<em>How To Get Rich<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Shopify | Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/shopify.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/shopify.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2013 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Facet | Facet is waiving their $250 enrollment fee for new annual members, and for my audience, Facet is offering $300 into your brokerage account if you invest and maintain $5,000 within your first 90 days. Head to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0to learn more about which membership option is best for you.<\/p>\n<p>DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0for 20% off.<\/p>\n<p>NordVPN | Secure your online privacy with NordVPN\u2019s special offer. Get a huge discount on a 2-year plan, plus 4 bonus months free, when you sign up at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/nordvpn.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/nordvpn.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/earnwaitlist\">Want to earn an extra $1,000 on the side? Get on the waitlist at iwt.com\/earnwaitlist<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/tourwaitlist\">Get alerts about future live shows<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/moneyforcouples\">Order my new book: Money for Couples<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Whoa. Chicago. Wow. Now this is what I\u2019m talking about. Making life harder than it needs to be, that\u2019s the theme of Chicagoans and also Indian parents.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:12]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I run it through my head with a resentment lens every night.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Show me the compound interest calculation. I\u2019ve been waiting all night.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:21]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you see eye rolling?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Everyone saw it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:25]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That was so hot. Let\u2019s go home and get fried.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wrap it up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:33]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Feelings are hard for him, so give him a minute.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:36]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0She calls me a robot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How many fishing poles do you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:39]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe about eight.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that normal? Okay, okay, okay. God. Damn.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:48]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0If I include the kids and my ice fishing pole, sure, maybe 20.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a020? Wait. Wait a minute. Thank you for flagging that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:59]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s not why I applied.<\/p>\n<p>[Applause]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:04]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I definitely saw this coming.<\/p>\n<p>[Laughter]<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Today\u2019s episode of Money for Couples is going to be a little bit different. I had the chance to spend several weeks on tour for my new book,\u00a0Money for Couples, where I had the amazing opportunity to sit down with couples in person, unscripted,\u00a0on stage,\u00a0in front of a live audience, and I loved it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:46]\u00a0On today\u2019s episode, you\u2019ll have a chance to see me sit down with two couples live in Chicago, and I\u2019m going to\u00a0let you in on a little secret.\u00a0I was only supposed to talk to the first couple for 30 minutes, but their story was so incredible, which you\u2019re going to\u00a0see and hear today that I just had to keep going. I think you\u2019re going to\u00a0be surprised by the conversation because I know I was. I also got the chance to sit down with some surprise guests who you may recognize from my Netflix show,\u00a0How to Get Rich.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:15]\u00a0My personal theme for this year is maximalism, and I couldn\u2019t think of a better way to kick off the year than by going on this book tour and seeing you in different cities across the country.\u00a0It was a ton of fun. You can feel the energy in the room.\u00a0And\u00a0I have one more tour stop. It\u2019s in LA,\u00a0but the event is sold out. So if you would like to get on a waitlist\u00a0for\u00a0future events, go to iwt.com\/tourwaitlist.\u00a0Now let\u2019s get to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:47]\u00a0Whoa. Chicago, what is going on? Damn. Wow. Now this is what I\u2019m talking about. Great to see everybody. Amazing. You know what? We got to start off with something that I just found out last night. I got to play it for you\u2013 the first people I\u2019ve played it for anywhere. I\u2019m telling the truth. I got a voicemail last night. I have to share it with you. Let\u2019s play that voicemail.<\/p>\n<p>[Voicemail Playing]<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:18]\u00a0Oh my gosh. I can\u2019t believe I\u2019m about to leave this on a voicemail to you, but I\u2019m going to just say on the voicemail, which is huge. Congratulations. Money for Couples is officially a New York Times bestseller.\u00a0Number three on the How-To,\u00a0Advice\u00a0&amp; Miscellaneous list. Congratulations. We\u2019re\u00a0overjoyed. I hope you are too. It\u2019s an incredible feat. Bravo. Beautifully done. Congratulations. We are so excited.<\/p>\n<p>[End of Voicemail]<\/p>\n<p>[Applause]<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you, thank you, thank you. I didn\u2019t know I was going to get that voicemail, and I did not know that was going to happen. But I have to thank all of you for reading my book, reading my books, reading my material, sharing it with your friends, even when I know they don\u2019t want to hear you talking about this guy Ramit. I know it. I know it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:10]\u00a0By the way, I want to do something fun. Since this is a special night and it\u2019s a one night only, can everybody get that book out and just stand up? I want to take a selfie with everybody. Yes. All right. Oh my God, this looks so cool. Okay. Hold it up. Hold it up high. 1, 2, 3. Amazing. Thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:34]\u00a0Oh my God. I love Chicago. I love being here. What an amazing city. You guys really don\u2019t give a [Bleep] about pain in this city. I can\u2019t believe it. It\u2019s 12 degrees, and I saw there\u2019s a line out the door. And literally hundreds of people said, \u201cYes, let\u2019s go to an event about love and money.\u201d What? I went to another city on tour and I was walking outside. There was a lady walking her dog. She was wearing a full winter coat, full, with gloves. It was 61 degrees. Life is hard enough, but you guys actually make it harder on purpose for no good reason. I\u2019ve never been to a city that chooses an official drink, which is the most disgusting thing I\u2019ve ever tasted in my life. What the [Bleep] is wrong with you? Why did you do that? You didn\u2019t have to do it, but you did it anyway.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:30]\u00a0What is Mal\u00f6rt, anyway? I don\u2019t know, but I don\u2019t want to know. Making life harder than it needs to be, that\u2019s the theme of Chicagoans and also Indian parents. All right. I have had some of my best conversations about money with people in Chicago. And when I finally get them to open up and to talk about what\u2019s really going on, you really never know what to expect, like tonight.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:00]\u00a0It\u2019s so rare that people actually talk about what they love to spend money on without shame, just in the possibility phase. I love that. I love hearing real responses from real people, which is what we are going to see tonight with real people who are going to do something I would frankly be terrified to do, and that is come on stage, live, in front of all of us, and share their numbers and share some of their biggest challenges ever. That takes a lot of courage. So I want you to get on your feet and help me give a warm welcome to Evelyn and Mike.<\/p>\n<p>[Applause]<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Welcome.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:47]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How\u2019re you doing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:49]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m loving the cold.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:51]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re from Minneapolis, so this is balming.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ooh. Love it. Mike, how you doing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:57]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Pretty good. A little nervous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Well, the crowd is here for you guys. What do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[Applause]<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s what I\u2019m talking about. So who was the one who applied to come and speak today? Evelyn. Okay. Is that common when it comes to money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:14]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Not money, but things that are fun, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, okay. Evelyn, your application. Made me laugh. You wrote \u201cDeep fried foods at the Minnesota State Fair. When we go, I am always cautious about how much to spend while my spouse buys and eats whatever he desires. (\u200aHe eats a lot.) This is indicative of the tension we often have.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:50]\u00a0Okay, first of all, I need to know what are you guys buying at the state fair?\u00a0Is it this,\u00a0fried bread? Is it this, whatever that is?\u00a0Only the brown crew will know what this one is it this?\u00a0Jalebi.\u00a0All right. Everyone\u2019s like, what the hell is that?\u00a0Try it next time you see it. Okay, so what is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:18]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s probably more savory, like fried Shepherd\u2019s pie, fried mushroom, fried smelt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the hell? You buy this at a state fair?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:28]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Pretty much anything you want.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Fried ranch dressing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, I see why you have a problem with what he orders. I would never order this. So it\u2019s a quantity issue or a quality issue?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:39]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Quality\u2019s to be determined. You got to try it first.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good answer. Okay. So let\u2019s see how these conversations actually go. Can you transport yourself back to the last time that you were at the state fair? The smells, the sounds. Let\u2019s have the real conversation. Go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:59]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Mike, how many things have you eaten today?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:02]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Not enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:05]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you really need to get another fried pie dipped in biscoff and honey after eating 14 other fried items? How much have we spent today?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:15]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0One, we can afford it. And two, it\u2019s new. It\u2019s different. We got to try it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:21]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, bite me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, can we give it up for them?<\/p>\n<p>[Applause]<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>I got to say, I appreciate you getting right into that. Sometimes it\u2019s hard for people to go back and they embellish, but that seems pretty real. Would you say that\u2019s pretty authentic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:37]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I run it through my head with a resentment lens every night.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really? No kidding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:43]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s why it\u2019s easy to reenact.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:44]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I was up here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There was a lot of body language in there that felt pretty real. There was a bit of eye rolling, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:53]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you see eye rolling?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Everyone saw it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:00]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a reflex at this point.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. So is this something that happens often?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:05]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0The fried food or the conversations?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:08]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Both actually, yeah. We have these on a regular basis.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How often?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:12]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Even today we were discussing the L train ticket and how it\u2019s $5 for a single day pass and she\u2019s like, well, we got to use as the L more to maximize that $5.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:25]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I was like, \u201cWe should just ride it around the city to maximize the $5.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, this is\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:34]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not even joking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I know you\u2019re not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:37]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0We took it from the airport in and then we were taking it to a place for lunch and I was like, \u201cHey, two trips is equal to $5.\u201d But she\u2019s like, \u201cNo, we got to do more trips on it.\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cIt\u2019s fine.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So Mike, when you have these conversations, what does it feel like for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:00]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Sometimes she\u2019s joking, but sometimes I think she\u2019s serious and I\u2019m like, \u201cIt\u2019s not that big of a deal. We can let it go.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask again? What does it feel like for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:13]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Feelings are hard for him, so give him a minute.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:15]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0She calls me a robot. It feels like not making any progress.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s a feeling. Let\u2019s try it again. Hold on, hold on. All all jokes to aside. I\u2019m serious. And I can understand the difficulty accessing your feelings, Asian guy, Indian guy. It\u2019s not talked about in our cultures. It certainly wasn\u2019t in mine. Can we get the lights up for a second?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:40]\u00a0I specifically want to\u00a0talk to the guys in the room. Are there any guys in here who have trouble accessing their feelings sometimes?\u00a0I\u2019m putting my hand up first. Look at that. Look at that. So first of all, you\u2019re not alone. Can we give them\u00a0a round of applause?<\/p>\n<p>[Applause]<\/p>\n<p>[00:1:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You are not. Thank you.\u00a0If\u00a0someone had asked me at 22 or something at young age, what do you feel about X, I would\u2019ve said, \u201cOh, well, I think blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.\u201d It\u2019s a very intellectual answer. And sometimes getting in touch with their feelings is not a natural skill. So let\u2019s take it slow. But I do want to hear how it feels.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:18]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Is frustration a feeling?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:21]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0That might be it. I need an emotion wheel to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I have a wheel of emotions. I got it from our therapist because I had this problem. She\u2019s like, \u201cTry this wheel.\u201d A freaking wine wheel. I know. Sometimes I look at it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:34]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve gone through that before, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. It\u2019s very helpful. So frustration at what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:40]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0That we are having this conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. That we are, or that she is bringing it up?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:47]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0That I have to rebut what she is saying.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. Do you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:55]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I can acknowledge her feelings and just ask her why she feels that way. That\u2019d be the good answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not looking for the good answer. I\u2019m looking for your answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:07]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0She likes to converse, so I feel like we have to. I can\u2019t ignore her. These are very practical answers. As you can see, I\u2019m just wired.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we do that role play again, the state fair thing? This time, I love where you just went, you said, I could acknowledge her feelings. Can we just try that for a second? Evelyn?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0How many dishes have you had today?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:34]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I\u2019ve had quite a lot of dishes. Thank you for noticing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:37]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Do we need to get another one?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:39]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if we need to. It sounds like you have a concern with me getting another dish.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:46]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I think the tapeworm within is satisfied.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:50]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That tapeworm may really like more fried foods. I\u2019m not sure. Is this a concern of yours?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:58]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you no restraint?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Evelyn, let\u2019s go with him. He\u2019s trying to make an effort here. So meet him halfway.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:09]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you voicing that you would like me to withhold from eating more?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:17]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019d be wonderful. Thanks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How do you think that went, Evelyn?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:22]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0It was unrealistic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, I agree. But how do you think that he felt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:27]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Uncomfortable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. And?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I appreciate the acknowledgement of my feelings. And if this was real life and not role play, that would\u2019ve been really surprising.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, I guess I didn\u2019t hear you appreciate him.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:43]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I probably didn\u2019t because I did it in my head.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. Let\u2019s ask the crowd. Did anyone hear Evelyn appreciate him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:51]\u00a0<strong>Audience:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Shall we try it again? You can just appreciate out loud. Just take what\u2019s in your head and just say it out loud. Go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:58]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That was so hot. Let\u2019s go home and get fried.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wrap it up. So try it again for real.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:09]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Thanks. I appreciate that you are acknowledging my feelings. Maybe we could take something for the road.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Round of applause. That was great. So it feels uncomfortable and a little contrived. I get that. But did we all see what just happened here? So much resistance. If you zoom out of the conversation that the two of you just had and you pretend it was me and somebody else, what would you observe about the conversation that we had the first time?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:40]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0A lot of back and forth. Not really trying to understand each other and more just arguing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. Evelyn?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:48]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it wasn\u2019t really a conversation. It was just more like we were in our respective corners with our mini Don Kings behind us, massaging us, and getting us ready for the next round.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, I think you were fighting. You were in the ring, and you were each doing your thing, and it wasn\u2019t together. It was individual with their own position. Okay, very insightful. Evelyn, you actually gave us a tour of your basement. Let\u2019s check it out.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back to see Evelyn and Mike\u2019s basement after a short break to support our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:23]\u00a0Welcome back. Now let\u2019s check out Evelyn and Mike\u2019s basement.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:27]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0So for some folks,\u00a0basements are pretty scary.\u00a0My basement\u2019s scary too, but for reasons that you may not expect, which is the basement is a fun house for my husband\u2019s hobby\u2013 fishing. And as you can see here, there are a few backpacks, 1, 2, 3. We have here a fish finder, an expensive contraption, GPS for finding fish, which I\u2019m sure ancient fishermen also used.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:52]\u00a0And then we have a lot of fishing poles here as well as every color plastic and do that under the sea to attract fish. On this side here, what do you see? More fishing poles. And then here behind door number one, we have a kayak of several hundred dollars used exclusively for fishing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:13]\u00a0We live in Minnesota, so there are a lot of lakes, and Mike is doing a great job capitalizing on that at the expense of cold hard cash. And then here, the scary looking thing that I thought belonged to a Russian Mafia member.\u00a0This actually holds ice fishing poles. And then don\u2019t get me started on these boxes plus the fun noodle. I don\u2019t know why that\u2019s here.\u00a0Just reminds me of a lot of PayPal transactions that I do not want to\u00a0see.\u00a0So that\u2019s why the basement\u2019s scary to me. It is a graveyard for hard earned money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. Thank you for the tour. How many fishing poles do you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:54]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe about eight in use.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that normal? Wait, wow. The crowd has very strong feelings about fishing. Holy [Bleep]. Hey, I\u2019m not trying to get in a fight with any fishing people in here. I don\u2019t know anything about fishing. Okay. What the hell\u2019s happening right now? Is that a lot or a little? That\u2019s a little amount of fishing poles. Okay, okay, okay. God. Damn.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:23]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0If I include the kids and my ice fishing pole, sure, maybe 20.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a020? Wait. Wait a minute. Thank you for flagging that. Okay. What does it mean to you to go fishing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:37]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0What does it mean to me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Why do you like fishing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:42]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I enjoy it. I think the way I look at it is fishing is like a problem to solve. And so every cast, where you cast, what lure you use, what retrieve, it\u2019s all like a fun brain problem that you try to catch a fish. Cool.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you go on your own or do you go with others?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:02]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Generally on my own, but sometimes I\u2019ll take the kids ice fishing. I tried to get her into it, but that didn\u2019t go very well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Evelyn, what do you notice about the way you describe the basement and the stuff in it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:20]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0If I was watching that objectively and not as myself, you could tell that I was unhappy and probably a little condescending and not respectful of something that means so much to him.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:34]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That being said, on my behalf, I\u2019m just going to say, we\u2019re sitting in a car frequently on a long car trip, and I\u2019m telling him about my hopes and dreams and my shared Rich Life, and then all of a sudden he goes\u2013 and I\u2019m like, \u201cOh, is there a nude lady outside?\u201d And no, it\u2019s a lake. And he\u2019s like, I think I can fish that. That\u2019s what I live with. I\u2019m here spilling my guts. Every time he sees a lake, it\u2019s like a nude lady out the window.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0First of all, I appreciate you acknowledging what you said about the basement, but all jokes aside about the lake stuff, what does it feel like when he talks about fishing a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:22]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I wish he saw me as a problem to solve and lured me with things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s funny because I don\u2019t hate fishing. First of all, it does cost money. So that\u2019s the money factor. But I do think that his love for it\u2013 he falls asleep to fishing YouTubes. Sometimes I just joke I\u2019m the second woman in his marriage.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Some commonalities. Unhappy with his spending on food at the state fair. Unhappy with his fishing hobby. You mentioned the amount of money for both of those. Are you aware that you comment about his spending a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:04]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:06]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I do. That\u2019s why we\u2019re here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How often do you all talk about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:15]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Fairly regularly. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:17]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0But not in this nice, calm manner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:19]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:20]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:23]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s an honest answer. Does it get heated?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:29]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe heated is not the right word.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is the word?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:34]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I think maybe I get upset when I start to try and explain certain things and then it doesn\u2019t get anywhere. And then we table that discussion.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then you wait until it comes back up again a few weeks later.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:49]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, or when we have to make a decision or whatever.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s very common. How does it feel when you are critiquing his spending, Evelyn?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:00]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you asking me how does it feel when I\u2019m critiquing his spending?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. How does it feel when you were saying, why are you spending that? There\u2019s dead money here. How does it feel to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:10]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a funny question. I feel right, or I feel entitled, probably.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Entitled means?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:19]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Meaning that I have every right to be asking him these questions about his hobbies and how much she spends on them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How did you grow up with money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:29]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0We were never on want. I grew up in Silicon Valley. On weekends we would go to my friend\u2019s mansions after their parents\u2019 companies IPO\u2019d. So I grew up around a lot of wealth. At the same time, I don\u2019t think my parents really taught me a whole lot about money, so as a result of that, my general principle in life is just to not spend it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s all try to understand the clues here. You grew up around incredible wealth. Your parents taught you basically don\u2019t spend it. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:00]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0No, they were actually very generous, exceedingly generous with their money. They weren\u2019t tech people, but we were never on want. But we went to the Hyatt. We went to France. It was very nice. Drove a Mercedes. But they didn\u2019t ever taught me about how to make money, how to save money, taxes, any of that stuff. So if anything, I was angry that they spent so much on me. They bought me two new cars and I was like, \u201cI never asked for this.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. What\u2019d you do with the cars?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:27]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I drove them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0But I think as a result of that, I\u2019m a little bit more tight with my purse because I saw that generosity and I didn\u2019t know where it was coming from. And I myself do not feel as generous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t feel as generous?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:44]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Generous to whom?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:46]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Anybody.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0To yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:50]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Even to myself, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0To your husband.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:53]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I definitely don\u2019t feel generous to him. When I go to Trader Joe\u2019s and I see the chicken breast, I will always pick the 5.02-dollar one over the 5.05 to save 3 cents.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:05]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0On a chicken breast. Because it\u2019s easier than actually knowing my finances to just round down to whatever\u2019s cheapest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. So your view of the world is, let me spend less.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:19]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I don\u2019t really know how much we have. Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. Shall we take a look at the numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:27]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh God.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Just pop it up.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0about to open Evelyn and Mike\u2019s conscious spending plan, which breaks down their net worth, their income, where they spend their money. You can download a template of the\u00a0Conscious Spending Plan for free at\u00a0iwt.com\/csp.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can you refresh everybody of both your ages?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:48]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m 21, 20th edition.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Uh-huh. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:53]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re both 41.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, great.\u00a0So assets, 800,000.\u00a0Investments, 1 million. Wow. Give it up. You know what? That\u2019s something I love about our community. Sometimes we see people who have hundreds of thousands of debt. Sometimes we see people who are multimillionaires, but each time this crowd supports them,\u00a0and I love you for that.\u00a0So thank you. Savings, 177,000.\u00a0Debt,\u00a0520.\u00a0Total net worth,\u00a01.5 million.\u00a0Gross annual income, $317,000. That\u2019s a lot, right? What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:34]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m employed now, so we\u2019ll see if that goes down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow, that was a depressing answer.\u00a0All right.\u00a0Fixed cost, 40%. That\u2019s low. What do we know?\u00a0All\u00a0right.\u00a0You guys can cheer that if you want. Yeah, that\u2019s pretty good. Usually,\u00a0just for those of you don\u2019t know,\u00a0typically recommendation,\u00a050 to 60%.\u00a0Fixed\u00a0costs are\u00a0where most people overspend,\u00a0and it\u2019s where they start to feel stressed out even though they don\u2019t realize it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:04]\u00a0They tend\u00a0to\u00a0overspend on two areas\u2013 one,\u00a0house.\u00a0Two,\u00a0car. Okay. I\u2019m not trying to get in a fight in the Midwest about trucks. I know my audience. We can talk about that another times. You guys own a truck?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:20]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Hell no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:22]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe one day if I have a boat.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Okay. All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:26]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Cost you one wife.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Investments are around 11%, savings at 24%, which is quite high.\u00a0That\u2019s 24% of net.\u00a0Guilt-free spending at 29%. Okay. It sounds a bit high, but great. It sounds a bit high relative to what I think you actually spend. I don\u2019t really think you spend that much, but maybe I\u2019m wrong.\u00a0All right. Overall, looking at the numbers you prepared, what do you think about them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:52]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to let you answer that because I know what I think.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:55]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. Yeah. Like I said, I think in the financial literacy report card, I\u2019m probably a D+. So it sounds great, but I\u2019m a little worried about how much we\u2019re spending guilt-free.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. That\u2019s very interesting. In the financial literacy scorecard, you\u2019re a D, but in critiquing spending, what are you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:23]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m an A.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Mike, you manage the day-to-day finances?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:30]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0For the most part, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If I were to ask you some question about debt or some ratio or whatever percentage, would you roughly know the answer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:38]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I could figure it out, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How does it feel to be scrutinized over 5-dollar purchases when you are the one managing the money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:50]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0That emotion wheel would come in handy again, but again, it\u2019s the frustration of why are we arguing over a 5-dollar thing, whether it\u2019s a ticket, a cup of coffee, one fishing lure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. Have you ever sat down and looked at the numbers together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:09]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Yes. I\u2019ve tried to explain it. We have an advisor, so I\u2019ve tried to review it and try to explain, whether it sticks or not. But I think for you, Evelyn, it doesn\u2019t really matter about what you see because it\u2019s how you feel about money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because money is not just numbers on a page as we see right here in front of us. Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I just want to\u00a0cut in quickly because this is a dynamic I see with a lot of couples,\u00a0and it is the reason that I always say it is crucial for both partners to be involved in the family finances.\u00a0You cannot just have one money person. What\u2019s happening here is Evelyn is essentially bearing her head in the sand when it comes to her family finances, which allows her to continue her personal story of we don\u2019t have enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:04]\u00a0If Evelyn were involved in managing the money or if she were willing to even sit down and review their finances on a monthly basis, she would start to understand\u00a0where they actually are with their finances.\u00a0They\u2019re actually more than fine. But because she intentionally turns away from understanding their financial picture, she has created this story of scarcity. It\u2019s not real, but it feels real to her.\u00a0Your feelings matter. Your feelings are real.\u00a0But\u00a0your feelings also can lie to you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:40]\u00a0I\u2019m curious to know why. Why is she doing it? Mike says he tries to include her in the conversations around money. He\u2019s tried to help her understand where they were with their money, but she avoids it. And I want to\u00a0know, where does it come from?\u00a0Listen in as I push her to understand more.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Evelyn, I\u2019m curious, why have you not learned about your family finances?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:01]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I remember as a child, when we would go to Target or Safeway, which is a grocery store, I would always run away at the end when my mom was totaling the\u2013 you know the cash register gives you a receipt and totals the bill.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:13]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0And I just remember viscerally always wanting to run away.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:16]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0And I didn\u2019t want to know how much it cost. I don\u2019t know why that is. Probably should unpack that with a therapist. But I think that carries over where I don\u2019t like dealing with the numbers, for whatever reason. I will say that this probably looks good, but where my chief frustration is is I just want limitations. So if Mike said, I\u2019m going to spend $500 a year on fishing, be with God. Go for it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Mike, what\u2019s your reaction right there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:46]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Every time we\u2019ve had that conversation, we\u2019ve come back to the, well, what is the starting number? How do we agree on a starting number? Separately, how do we track it? And that\u2019s always going to fall into me to have to create a number that she agrees to, and then individually track everything, which that\u2019s not worth my time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask you a question?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:06]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you ever asked her to come with a number and to explain it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:14]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I haven\u2019t. If she would love to want to do that, I welcome it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. Notice the role that each of you have fallen into. You\u2019re at opposite ends of the ring. So one person says, if only he came up with a number. We need limits. I would be perfectly fine. Mike is over here shaking his head like, no, we\u2019ve tried that. But then when you dig into it, you accept the premise, Mike, that you are the one who has to come up with the number. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:52]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Because she\u2019ll throw a random number out that I probably won\u2019t agree with.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you ask her, where\u2019d that number come from? What does it mean to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:04]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, if I asked that, I think she was just like, \u201cThat sounds how much I would want you to spend at most. I don\u2019t know. I\u2019ll let you\u2013\u201c<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Evelyn, would you agree? Would you come up with it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:12]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s a lot of assumptions wrapped up in there. We have friends who track their budgets very tightly and have a line item for travel, a line item for clothing, a line item for toys. And I think maybe that\u2019s what I think I want, is just some limitations so that we can have more freedom versus having to make micro decisions about every little purchase. And then in that case, I\u2019ll just spend the least and he\u2019ll just spend whatever he wants.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:34]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Go ahead, Mike. But we\u2019re older. We don\u2019t need to track every line item. We can do a top-down approach.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:42]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. But I think for me it\u2019s less, again, about the actual money statistics and more about the feeling of having limitations.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Then why are we not talking about feelings and we\u2019re talking about a spreadsheet?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:52]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Because the tangible is always easier than the intangible.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Many of us chase the idea of a budget for our entire lives, and we self-flagellate. It\u2019s in many ways very religious. We punish ourselves as if that pain means that we are doing the right thing when ultimately all along, we don\u2019t actually need 500 lines on a budget. I don\u2019t have a budget. I track four key numbers. I know my numbers. I trust myself. I trust even if I make a mistake, I will catch it. And then I spend more time working on this, the feeling of money, feeling good, feeling joyous, feeling all those things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:39]\u00a0How much time do you spend feeling good about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:42]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably none.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s what I thought. Evelyn, what did your mom teach you about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:48]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0My mother?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:49]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, she didn\u2019t work much and she liked nice things in life and never really talked about how much those things cost. So that\u2019s part of it. That\u2019s pretty much it. Money is a ways to enjoy your life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What were the conversations about money in your family?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:09]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think we really had any. And I\u2019m very fortunate where I went to two expensive schools that my parents paid for. I, in some ways, resent them because I wish I felt the pain of those things more so I could understand it better. That sounds really bougie in first world.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s a huge clue. Say it again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:29]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I wish my parents allowed me to suffer a little bit more in terms of money so I could understand more about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Aren\u2019t you suffering now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:40]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I am. I am suffering now. But unfortunately, it\u2019s my new family that\u2019s suffering.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That is correct. Wow, that\u2019s very insightful. So you wish that your parents made you \u201csuffer.\u201d That\u2019s an interesting choice of words. Some might say, I wish my parents taught me about money, but it\u2019s an interesting choice. I wish my parents made me suffer, but they didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:03]\u00a0I resented them for not. In fact, I resented them for giving me these cars. And because of this story that I told myself from years ago, I wish they made me suffer, I\u2019m now going to make myself suffer. How? By not learning the numbers, by instead policing my husband\u2019s eating and fishing. Again, y\u2019all make a lot of money in a relatively low cost of living area, I think. Certainly not a very high cost of living city and suffer. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:39]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if I want to introduce another dimension because I don\u2019t know if we have time. But the reason why we make so much money is also because I look for jobs that make a lot of money because I don\u2019t actually know how much our financial situation is.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:51]\u00a0So in some ways, there\u2019s good parts of this lack of knowledge, is that I will just pursue things that\u2013 I\u2019ve made more money than him for the last six, seven years. And in some ways, I feel like even if I don\u2019t know the numbers, I\u2019m contributing more to them. And also, at the same time, I\u2019m not spending as much. So even\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what does that make you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:14]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you really believe that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:19]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I probably do subconsciously. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What did your mom say about your dad when you grew up?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:25]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019d she say about him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:31]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0He was a self-made person, I think. I still don\u2019t know what he really did to this day. And I guess she wished that he made more, maybe. But I\u2019m choosing my words carefully because my dad\u2019s still alive, and if he watches this, I don\u2019t want him to feel humiliated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So she was critical of his earning abilities?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:55]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know about critical. Again, all this stuff was like sheep rolls over our eyes. I did not know really where anything was coming from at any time. I suspect there was tension about keeping up with the Joneses because we lived in Silicon Valley, which everybody\u2019s rich. So I suspect there was tension there. And then because my mom and dad didn\u2019t have traditional jobs, there was just a huge gap of knowledge about what it means to make money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. Do you see any similarities between your parents\u2019 relationship with money and yours?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:25]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. The fact that I\u2019m perpetuating not really knowing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Not knowing. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:30]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Pushing me to earn more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:31]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Pushing him to earn more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:33]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I think I spend less than they do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So what else? How about comparison?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:40]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Comparisons? Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We should be making this. Our friends make more, that kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:45]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. And again, this is another corollary, which is Mike and I spent a lot of our lives first in our 30s working for nonprofits because we\u2019re very idealistic, we\u2019re religious, and I feel a little resentment now because I feel like we\u2019re behind. I didn\u2019t start working in the private sector till almost three years ago. He was at a nonprofit for seven years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So if you\u2019re behind, that means?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:10]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0We need to make more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So basically life is, we are behind. Even though I don\u2019t know the numbers at all, I just feel behind. And so therefore we need to get the cheapest chicken, no fishing gear, no funnel cakes. I understand. And then when does it end? When do you have enough?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0It doesn\u2019t end.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. That\u2019s it. That\u2019s life. You live here, you raise your kids here, and then you die feeling like you never had enough. Does anybody know people like this? This is their life. This is it. And why? Because they didn\u2019t take the time to learn the two parts of a Rich Life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:54]\u00a0Number one, know your numbers. It\u2019s not hard. You two are obviously very intelligent. It\u2019s not hard. It\u2019s just like learning the basic language of money. It\u2019s very simple. And two, learn how to master your money psychology. Two things. They\u2019re not hard, but they take an effort.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The way Evelyn describes her wishlist or what I\u2019ll call rules of engagement around money are very telling. She says she wishes her parents made her suffer. She wants to have limitations around money, and she just gave me a major clue that explains the language she uses around money, which is that she is religious.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:31]\u00a0Now, I see this combination with lots of people.\u00a0When people tell me that they need to be limited,\u00a0they even use phrases like,\u00a0I like when my partner puts me in my place. Sometimes I get too crazy. We have religious issues often.\u00a0Not always, but often. We also often have gender issues. Again, not always, but often.\u00a0And sometimes we have people who simply believe, if you let me do what I\u2019m going to\u00a0do, I\u2019ll go crazy.\u00a0I\u2019m out\u00a0of\u00a0control.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:00]\u00a0Therefore, I need someone to keep me grounded. You hear this all the time.\u00a0Whenever I see somebody saying, I need limits put on me,\u00a0I\u2019ll often ask them, are you religious?\u00a0And often they have these beliefs they grew up with, that they\u2019re born in sin. And if you don\u2019t have limits and restraints, you\u2019re not virtuous. And also,\u00a0I find that people who use these phrases about wanting limits often want approval from an authority figure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:27]\u00a0That authority figure could be God. It could be your parents. Sometimes it\u2019s me. But the ultimate lesson of a\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0is that you do not need anyone\u2019s permission to live it. You certainly don\u2019t need mine. I don\u2019t know about God. That\u2019s between you and God.\u00a0But the ultimate lesson of living a\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0is that it starts right here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:47]\u00a0And the tricky part of designing your\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0is that once you leave your parents\u2019 home, once you become an adult, there is no natural authority to take on that role. I suspect that\u2019s partially why Evelyn applied to talk to me in the first place. Now,\u00a0I\u2019m glad I have all this information. I\u2019m glad I understand the context a little bit more because now we can work to bridge these things together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:11]\u00a0What Evelyn doesn\u2019t know yet is that she can absolutely be religious and feel good about money. That is the challenge for me to help her understand. And I\u2019m curious if there are also some gender roles here since Evelyn has historically earned more than Mike. Listen as I include the audience to help Evelyn understand she\u2019s not alone.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I am curious for the ladies in the audience, how many were told,\u00a0by a show of hands, you cannot rely on a man for money?\u00a0Wow. Look at that. Look at that. And second question, how many of you were told to keep a secret account? Look at that. Wow.\u00a0Hmm.\u00a0Evelyn, how much of this is gender issues, cultural issues? How much of this dynamic do you think has some of that to bear here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:14]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m sure some of it is cultural. We\u2019re Asian, so there\u2019s a certain level of frugality, at least in our culture that comes with that. His mom is fairly frugal, so I can identify with that on his side. And then from a gender perspective, I don\u2019t know if there\u2019s so much of that as much. He has no issues with me making more money than he does.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What if he made more than you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:42]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Great.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah? Is that for real or is that a joke?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:45]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0For real. He got a job this year and I think the amount of time we spent arguing on me asking him to negotiate higher, it was a lot of arguments.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask you, what if you simply didn\u2019t do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:58]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I would probably need some sort of violent hobby.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0My wife has her own business.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:05]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m an entrepreneur. I\u2019ve been entrepreneur for a long time. I could certainly critique her. I could tell her like, \u201cYour funnel is not optimized the way I would do it,\u201d or something. How do you think that would affect our relationship, me telling her how to run her business?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:24]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I think if it was said lovingly in the right context, she might invite it. But if it was uninvited\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0[Bleep] that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Uninvited, she probably wouldn\u2019t appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, that was a totally wrong answer. I told him before, there\u2019s no wrong answers on stage. That was the wrong answer. I\u2019ll tell you something. I understand encouraging your partner to negotiate their salary if they don\u2019t know how, or if you\u2019re early on and or you don\u2019t have a lot of money and you need money to feed your family. I understand that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:55]\u00a0You have to be aggressive. I get that. I wonder when you turn the page and shift from, \u201cWe need to get more and spend less to\u201d, turn the page, \u201cWe need connection.\u201d What is more valuable to you right now? An extra $1,000 or connection?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:19]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0$1,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Put that CSP back up on screen. Evelyn, I don\u2019t want jokes. I want a serious answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:25]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. I\u2019m serious. And I\u2019ll also say that. I know it sounds like I\u2019m this terrible person, but it gets us things. I asked for a 10,000-dollar credit when we got our new house because I was like, \u201cWe need money to repair something.\u201d He\u2019s like, \u201cOh, I don\u2019t really know if we want to.\u201d We got the 10K.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. That\u2019s so cool.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:43]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0You know what I mean? It\u2019s not like it\u2019s always just going to impact your relationship badly. Sometimes he admits that it\u2019s got to be pushed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hey, Evelyn. What I noticed, you\u2019re just talking a lot to avoid what the actual important issue is here. Have you noticed you do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:56]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0The relationship, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Look at those numbers. You\u2019re 41. You have a million dollars invested. Do you want me to show you how much you\u2019re going to have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:08]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Before I show that, before I show that\u2013 I love the enthusiasm, \u201cYes, show me the compound interest calculation. I\u2019ve been waiting all night.\u201d Has anyone been listening to anything that\u2019s happening on stage? You said, \u201cI wish someone would tell me that I have enough and for me to believe them.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:37]\u00a0Without even looking at how much you\u2019re going to have, would it make a difference if some random person told you, you have enough? Let\u2019s find out. Hey, one person, can you just say, tell her if she has enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:48]\u00a0<strong>Audience:<\/strong>\u00a0You have enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. Do you believe them? Wait, let\u2019s let her share her feelings. Go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:58]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I think this is one of those moments where I know that I\u2019m supposed to feel a certain way, but my heart has not caught up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I love that answer. Give a round of applause. That\u2019s a very honest answer. Wow. Okay. Ah, I love that. You know you\u2019re supposed to feel like that, but your heart hasn\u2019t caught up. And so your conclusion has been, what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:25]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s fall back on what is natural to me, which is to be stingy and to critique.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s right. That\u2019s right. And what is the cost of that, Mike? Mike, this is your chance to be honest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:39]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0My patience. No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Say it in a full sentence. I want to hear it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:43]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0The cost of Evelyn\u2019s critique and stinginess is unhappiness to some extent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. You\u2019re unhappy. Is that what you mean?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:52]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Sometimes, yeah. About that stuff, yeah. We don\u2019t need to have this conversation. Instead, we can enjoy life. Admittedly she\u2019s gotten better, but\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, wait, wait. Hang right there. You just said something very powerful. Evelyn, he says, \u201cSometimes I\u2019m unhappy. We don\u2019t have to have this conversation. Instead, we could talk about money in a different way.\u201d How do you respond to that? Think very carefully before you respond. How do you want to respond to that? Because I find that incredibly honest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:29]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree that something needs to change, which is why we\u2019re on the stage.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. That\u2019s a great answer. Okay. We ran a calculation, simple calculation. By retirement, you will have around $7 million. $7 million. So I\u2019m telling you, Evelyn and Mike, you will have enough. Do you believe me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:02]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0You know what\u2019s funny? Because the back of my head, it\u2019s like, we need to check those numbers again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We need to do some math. Math is where I feel comfortable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:10]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Did Mike report correctly?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:13]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0So that just tells you that I still have work to do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I noticed that when things get honest, you go back into storytelling. And your stories are sometimes jokes. They\u2019re sometimes jabs. It\u2019s very much like we\u2019re on a sitcom, The Costanza\u2019s, that type of thing. It\u2019s very much like that. And I think that to you it\u2019s comfortable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:40]\u00a0To me, it\u2019s not. It would be one thing if you were struggling with money. If you were making $30,000 a year and you have kids, I would understand the frustration, and we\u2019d have a different conversation. It\u2019s not comfortable to me because I see a multimillionaire couple here, which you are. You just need time to let it cook. But I see a couple that is playing so small that you are literally critiquing your husband over sweets at the state fair. Tell me the reaction you have.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:17]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I also, myself, admit that my view on money has very little to do with our numbers, so I agree with that part.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what do you want to do about it?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll hear Evelyn\u2019s answer after a quick break to support our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:33]\u00a0Now back to the show. Let\u2019s hear what Evelyn is prepared to do to change her mindset around money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:39]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0My view on money has very little to do with our numbers. I agree with that part.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what do you want to do about it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:45]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I need to work on that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:48]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I am a spiritual person, so in my religion it would be praying and also having behaviors that are more open-minded and generous and self-reflecting than they currently are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like that. Shall we do it right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:10]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Which part?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, maybe not a prayer, but let\u2019s do some behavior stuff. Let\u2019s do a little bit of work on not the numbers part, but the feelings and psychology part. So let\u2019s say you are a worrier. That\u2019s one of the four money types. It\u2019s very common. People worry about money, and worriers worry regardless of how much they have. Many times they don\u2019t even know how much they have. It doesn\u2019t matter. Because I just showed you you\u2019re going to have $7 million. Most people, when they heard they were going to have $7 million, how do you think they would react?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:47]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0How would most people react?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:49]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Happily.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, why don\u2019t we ask the crowd? Hey, everybody, what if I told you you\u2019re going to have $7 million? What the [Bleep]?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:59]\u00a0Do you see that? Again, I\u2019m not coming down on you. I\u2019m trying to unpeel these layers. I\u2019m trying to show you that $7 million in any city, in any country in the world is a huge amount of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:13]\u00a0And the lenses that you are wearing\u2013 right now, Mike has actual lenses on, but you also have lenses, and they are coloring everything you see. Because the only reaction that the majority of people would have to $7 million is, oh my God. The same thing that the crowd had. But yours was not that. I don\u2019t even think you felt that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:41]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s correct. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that you feel restriction. I think that you feel scared of money. I think you worry a lot. And I think that rather than looking inward, it\u2019s very easy to look at the Trader Joe\u2019s price and look at your husband\u2019s fishing poles.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:56]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0And look at my friends and see what they\u2019re making.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, yes. So let\u2019s change it. Because you have kids, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:04]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0We have three girls.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s the age of the oldest?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:08]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0So we have a 8-year-old, a 7-year-old, and a 4-year-old.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Congratulations. What does the oldest think about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:16]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re trying to teach to them about money by having chores and allowance. So she\u2019s understanding things aren\u2019t just free or like, I can\u2019t have everything. If she wants something that I don\u2019t want to buy, then we can tell her, well, then you can use your allowance money that you earned. So she\u2019s learning, I think.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:37]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s understanding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0First of all, round of applause for any parent who teaches their kids about money. Amazing. At any age. I appreciate that. What is she learning about her mom and money? Evelyn?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:50]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know what she\u2019s learning.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s why we brought her out tonight, everybody.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:55]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I wish. I don\u2019t know what she\u2019s learning, but we implemented this new system in the summer, and I think it is bearing fruit. I can see the wheels in her turning in her head, like cost-benefit analysis. So hopefully that leads to good things. True. Right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s good. Can I just cut to the chase? I\u2019m just going to tell you what I think is going to happen. I think that three girls seeing a mom who worries constantly about money, they are soon going to see over and over and over that the role of mom is to worry about money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:29]\u00a0The role of mom is to critique dad. The role of mom is to shrink herself because spending less makes you virtuous, and that is what they\u2019re going to do in their future relationships. How does that strike you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:45]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re probably right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you want your daughters 25 years from now to be worried, wracked with guilt while they have a high-paying job, critiquing their husband, husband not feeling good about it? Do you want that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:01]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I think the stakes are higher than we even realize. It\u2019s not about the basement. It\u2019s not about $10 here and there. It\u2019s about the messages that we receive generation after generation. So I\u2019m going to give you a couple of things you can do immediately. Some advice for the worrier. Evelyn, what do you get out of worrying?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:30]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I get an expectation that will not feel as hard if it comes to life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good. What else? When you\u2019re in the process of critiquing, how do you feel? You said it before.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:45]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, you feel right or righteous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:47]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m right. He has to defend himself. Worst case scenario, you spend $6 on chicken breast, you get an extra whatever thing at the restaurant. Worst case scenario, after 25 years, where are you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:07]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0The same place?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0$7 million in the bank compounding every single day?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:13]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, probably.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:16]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0This is not what I expected it to be tonight, by the way. I would\u2019ve prepared myself better, done some more pushups.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sometimes the things we have to do are not obvious and they\u2019re actually the most important.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:28]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you have nothing for him? Is it all going to be me? That\u2019s not why I applied.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:41]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0I definitely saw this coming.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You are doing great. You\u2019re doing great. This takes a lot of courage. You\u2019re both doing it. This crowd knows what is happening right now. I know that right now the lights are on. There\u2019s a lot of noise. This is not a normal situation. I know that. But I can tell you this crowd knows just by the applause they just gave. They can see that something is about to happen. And they can see that both of you are being honest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:24]\u00a0I know, Mike, it\u2019s not easy for you to talk about feelings. I know that. But I recognize that you are trying. And Evelyn, I know that it\u2019s not easy for you to talk about this. And I think you would be much more comfortable with us talking about, are you compounding at the correct rate? But that\u2019s not what\u2019s really important.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:40]\u00a0It\u2019s your relationship and it\u2019s your kids that is important. And we are looking at all of these things through the lens of money tonight. So stick with me. I asked, what is the worst that can happen if you loosened up a little bit? And you said, \u201cMaybe nothing.\u201d Maybe you end up with $50,000 less at retirement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:08]\u00a0There\u2019s no material difference for your lifestyle if you lose 50, 100,000 $250,000. Not lose, spend. And more importantly, now think about your partner. Let\u2019s fast forward. You have two paths in the road. 20 years from now, your partner can feel how he feels today, but compounded. How do you think he would feel 20 years from now, still getting critiqued about random expenses?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:35]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019d probably tune me out at some point.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s going to happen soon. What happens then?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:42]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Then we grow apart.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. It\u2019s a lack of connection. It\u2019s not great for you. It\u2019s not great for your kids to see. It\u2019s not great for anybody. And all for what? Because you actually have enough money and there\u2019s actually no reason for it. We\u2019re going to do a little something called the worry box. We\u2019re going to take some of your worries and we\u2019re just going to put them in a box and we\u2019re going to lock them up. We\u2019re going to let them. I used to do this when I was in college.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:08]\u00a0Freshman year, you\u2019re meeting a lot of people. You\u2019re a little anxious about stuff. Before I went to sleep, sometimes I would mentally take some of these things, take that thing, put it in a box, seal it up, and I knew it was in the box. I could go to sleep then. So let\u2019s do that right now. What is an expense that you worry about that is completely inconsequential?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:29]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, it\u2019s me again? Okay. Inconsequential. He just lost his auger in\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>What is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:37]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s like a drill, and he lost it on the bottom of a lake.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I wish I hadn\u2019t asked this question. There\u2019s nothing I care less about than tools.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:45]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I told him I would actually go dive in into this frozen lake to go get it instead of him having to buy it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the [Bleep]? What? Damn. Okay, so that was not what I was asking. I thought you were going to say like a stick of gum. It only cost a dollar. I\u2019m not going to worry about it anymore. You got anything like that? Chicken?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:05]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Right before the show, I was like, \u201cHey, I\u2019ll buy you dinner.\u201d And she was asking like, \u201cOkay, what\u2019s nearby that we can pick up?\u201d And I was like, \u201cSweetgreen.\u201d And your first response was, \u201cWell, it\u2019s expensive.\u201d And I was like, \u201cIt\u2019s fine. We\u2019ll buy you a Sweetgreen salad.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. Gross annual income, $317,904. What the [Bleep]? This is our worry box. Are you comfortable putting this in the worry box?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:28]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0My Sweetgreen salad?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Something that you are not going to worry about anymore. You\u2019re not going to worry here, here, and you\u2019re certainly not going to worry about it with your partner. If he wants Sweetgreen, buy the Sweetgreen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:42]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That was the least convincing answer I ever heard. Should we go smaller? I don\u2019t mind. You tell me. Do you understand the concept of what we\u2019re doing right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:52]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I understand the concept, but are you basically giving a carte blanche to buy whatever we want all the time?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:57]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0So if you want to buy a 30,000-dollar fishing boat tomorrow, you\u2019re like, \u201cGo do it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. We\u2019re not talking about fishing boat. We\u2019re talking about Sweetgreen.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:05]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Principle\u2019s the same.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you notice that you immediately assume that your partner will do the worst?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:12]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, because he\u2019s been talking about a fishing boat for quite some time.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m looking at your numbers right now. I don\u2019t see any evidence of any irresponsible spending. If anything, I see extremely high income, very low fixed costs. I have no concerns that one of you is going to trip, fall, and spend all of your money. Zero.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:29]\u00a0And honestly, what a way to go through life, to worry about all the things that can go wrong with my partner, father of our children. Instead of saying, \u201cBabe, I trust you. I love you. I know that if you were ever going to make a major decision, we would talk about it. But in general, I trust you.\u201d What about that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:49]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I would like to get to that place. I\u2019m not there right now.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree. But let\u2019s start. Let\u2019s pick something that jointly the two of you have carte blanche to spend on. What is it?<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:01]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Food.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, food.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:05]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a big expense, so yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like, eating out?<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:08]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0He likes buying prime meat versus choice meat.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. Love it. So, for example, if you were to say, \u201cI want to get this steak,\u201d what would your reaction be?<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:17]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I think the old Evelyn would be like, \u201cHow much did it cost?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:19]\u00a0<strong>Audience:<\/strong>\u00a0Great.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:20]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0And the new Evelyn would be like, \u201cGo for it. Let\u2019s eat some meat tonight.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yo, that was pretty good. Okay. You know what I love? I love that you are in this with us. I know that it takes a while to feel it here. I know that. But sometimes the way to feel it is just to say it over and over and to notice your reaction, your partner\u2019s reaction.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:49]\u00a0We can actually use money to bring us together, and it can start with something quite modest, a Sweetgreen. If my partner wants to get a salad, what difference does it make for a couple with your kind of finances if he wants to get extra chicken or if she wants to go to this place versus that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:10]\u00a0It makes no difference. And there\u2019s actually a beauty in abundance. We\u2019re talking about your husband saying, I want to get sweet green and you responding joyfully, not critically. And compound that one times, 10 times, 1,000 times. He will start to see the two of you building a connection. You will actually start to feel it. And by the way, your daughters will see it. It\u2019s going to take work. Do you see what I\u2019m getting at?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:41]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0I see what you\u2019re getting at. I will admit that it\u2019ll take me a while.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, fair enough. Another thing that I want to point out is in addition to some work that you have to do here, which I would actually recommend speaking to a therapist, I\u2019m always de-stigmatizing mental health. My wife and I have gone. It\u2019s so helpful. I think it would be great, and I would also encourage individual.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:03]\u00a0I think it\u2019s awesome. I want to point out that it is very easy to critique others when you don\u2019t have skin in the game. I\u2019ve taken some friends on trips and the first couple times I did it, I just planned everything because I loved to travel and I got a lot of this. Let me show you.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:24]\u00a0Real, like, why did we have to go here? This is taking too long\u2013 that kind of thing. And I took an honest inventory and realized what was going on. And what do you think was going on in those trips? I was planning it all. I was doing all the logistics. So I made a shift, which is every person was responsible for at least half a day. Skin in the game.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:44]\u00a0And when you realize how hard it is to plan something, suddenly you have a lot of generosity for the other people. What would that look like if you put skin in the game with your finances as opposed to Mike managing all of it?<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:57]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I think to your earlier point about setting limits and stuff. I should probably understand our numbers better and then maybe we can work on it together, versus currently, my view is, I\u2019ll make the money and then you will manage it. And I think that is not a pro\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then you will critique it constant.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:16]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, yes. So that is the toxic relationship we have right now.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:24]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0To detox it, I need to learn more about our finances and have skin of the game, to your point.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Love that. Great. And Mike, you have to be willing to stand up and to say, let\u2019s talk about what that looks like. Here\u2019s my expectation for you. Here\u2019s what I learned. I learned these four numbers, etc. I will help you as much as you want, but my expectation is that you read this book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich, Money for Couples, etc. Is that you understand these numbers, and let\u2019s talk about it. My expectation is that you plan our next money meeting, because I want to talk about this. I\u2019ve been wanting to talk for a long time. Do you think you can do that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:07]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I can definitely ask her to try.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. Let me ask that again. Do you think you can do that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:19]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0In my head, I was like, \u201cYes, I can ask her to do that.\u201d I also foresee the million questions that may come with trying that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. And when she asks you a million questions, what are you going to do?<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:31]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Affirm, acknowledge, and not\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:38]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Again, in my head, I think, yes, affirming, acknowledging, that she\u2019s trying, would be the good answer. I think part of me would probably just like, well, I\u2019ve told you this before, and then that devolves into an argument.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s a lot of built-in resentment. And a lot of us have it, a lot of us. When you have something that you\u2019ve disagreed with your partner on that\u2019s important for years, you can see when I ask a very simple question, do you think you can do that? I can see that there\u2019s so much under the surface.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:13]\u00a0You\u2019re already thinking, if I ask her this, she\u2019s going to say this. Then I\u2019m going to say that. Then we\u2019re going to fight. I can see that. That\u2019s normal. That\u2019s where a therapist can really help you facilitate with tools. But I also think that you two have to see the stakes here.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:28]\u00a0The stakes are a lot bigger than you think. This isn\u2019t about fishing and it\u2019s not about salad. It\u2019s about the two of you. It\u2019s about your daughters. It\u2019s about working as a team. If you go on the way you are, each of you in your own ring, as you described, Evelyn, you\u2019ll calcify that. You will each become more and more individualistic, more and more disconnected about money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:52]\u00a0Luckily, you\u2019ll have money, but what a tragedy to have a lot of money and not even be connected over it. What\u2019s the point of it all? Why do we work so hard if we\u2019re not going to actually feel joy? You are in such a fortunate position to have money, to have a family. What a tragedy to not take advantage of it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:12]\u00a0So the theme that I\u2019m going to give you for this year is teammates, and my suggestion for you would be, go home, don\u2019t talk about money for the rest of the evening. Just let it sit. Because there\u2019s a lot. We really scrape the surface and we\u2019re just getting into how much there is. But just think about this.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:33]\u00a0This is the only question you have to ask yourself in the next 24 hours. If we were truly a team, what would it look and feel like? Do you feel confident you could come up with those answers separately and then bring them together? Okay. Evelyn says yes. Mike? He says a confident yes. Hey, everybody. Do you think that they can think about what it takes to be a team together? I think so too. Thank you very much.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:08]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you. Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Give it up, Evelyn and Mike. Thank you very much. Wow. That takes a lot of courage. Can we give it up for them again, Evelyn and Mike? Damn.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:30]\u00a0Honestly, I love that. I love the honesty. This is the reason I said I love hearing real stories from real people. Who do you know that would talk about going to the state fair and were talking about these tiny purchases that seem inconsequential, but they actually expose so much of how we become disconnected over money?<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:55]\u00a0To the outside, they go, that doesn\u2019t make any sense. That\u2019s crazy. You have the money. They\u2019re approaching it like we\u2019re robots, but we\u2019re not. You could see it. You saw the numbers. They were great. But it\u2019s not about that. That doesn\u2019t change the way we feel.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:09]\u00a0And so over and over and over again, I want to show you all the different ways that people think about money and feel about money where they\u2019re not the same. They\u2019re different. They\u2019re disconnected. When you start to see that, you can start to change the way you think about money, talk about money, behave with money, and feel with money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:29]\u00a0Now, I have a special surprise for you guys tonight. I can\u2019t come to Chicago without seeing one of my favorite guests. You might recognize him from a little show on Netflix called How to Get Rich. Let\u2019s take a look.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:45]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0I can\u2019t take care of my life right now.\u00a0And it\u2019s like,\u00a0I don\u2019t\u00a0want to.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:47]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0Mike is\u00a0all I have because I rely on him so much and I don\u2019t want to leak.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:54]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re a team,\u00a0and I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m pulling my weight right now. I\u2019m tired of feeling lost. I\u2019m tired of feeling I don\u2019t have control. And I think my biggest fear is I go,\u00a0\u201cWhat if I\u2019m not fixable?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Drew And Mikey, welcome. How\u2019re you doing?<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:33]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0I really want my pop star diva moment right now like a little espresso, Ramit.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, yeah, yeah. I have that. How\u2019s it going?<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:41]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Good. How are you?<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You guys look great. Drew, I\u2019m thinking back to the first time I ever met you. Wow. Let me tell you something. I did not know what was going on. The production team told me like, \u201cOh, we\u2019re meeting our next guest at a bar.\u201d I walked into this bar and it was packed. Everyone was seated. I walked in, and they just ushered me to my seat.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:09]\u00a0In retrospect, everyone on the production crew was looking at me a lot and are smiling and looking at me. I\u2019ve been in a freaking bar. I know what it\u2019s like. But everyone knew something was about to go down. And then the music turned on. And then\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:27]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0You saw cross dressers.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I was like, \u201cYo, I did not expect this.\u201d I loved it. I loved it. You have some moves. Holy [Bleep]. That was amazing. You were in full drag. And do you remember, we met, we talked a little bit, I got to know you? I remember at the end of our time together you made a shirt for me, which was very sweet. Do you remember what that shirt said?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:00]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It was your drag name. You\u2019re my daughter.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I\u2019m his drag daughter.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:04]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0God, I\u2019m so sorry.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what was the name that you gave?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:07]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Cass Monet. We had to name you after your wife, Cass, and then Monet because of money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love it. I really loved our time together, and I want to remind everyone where you started at. So when I first met you, where were you financially speaking?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:28]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Broke. I was a server, so I was living shift to shift. There was no consistency. And then in general, the income disparity between me and Mikey was huge. And it was just stress nonstop, that feeling of insignificance and just not knowing what to do. He would try and talk to me about the money and then I would just shut down. Like my eyes would glaze over and I\u2019d be like, uh-huh. He\u2019s like, \u201cDid you hear what I said? Four.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:57]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I remember that. Mikey, you were very supportive. I always remember that. You were very supportive, but it\u2019s almost like no matter what you said, it wasn\u2019t reaching Drew.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:09]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, he didn\u2019t know how to talk about money at all.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:12]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0And actually, since the show, him and I have had a lot of conversations around it and I think\u2014 sorry, mom, dad\u2013 but it really comes down to our parents. Our parents, neither one of them ever talked about money. All we knew was things get paid and there was nothing left over. So we just never learned how to talk about money in a healthy way.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How many people in the room grew up where you did not talk about money? Let me hear you. Yeah.\u00a0A lot. Okay. Yeah,\u00a0yeah.\u00a0Drew, you were also keeping a secret from Mikey.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:43]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Which one?<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, [Bleep]. Well, the only one I knew about was the credit card debt.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:48]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0The credit card. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it was 5,000 bucks.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:51]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a05,000.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And that\u2019s a big deal. Before you get married, having financial secrets, which are among some of the most intimate for people. I\u2019m curious, how has your relationship with credit changed since we talked?<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:07]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s a toxic ex.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:09]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0The credit cards got paid off and I\u2019m like, \u201cOkay, bye. Done.\u201d They\u2019re in a drawer.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Debt-free?<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:15]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s student loan, but credit card debt-free.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Credit card debt-free?<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:17]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Let\u2019s give it up. Damn. Honestly, amazing. Honestly, amazing. When I talk to people who have paid off credit card debt, one of the first things they say is, I never want to go back there. Okay. I love that. Mikey, what have you noticed about Drew\u2019s relationship with money since the show?<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:40]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0He still spends it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:42]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0No, he\u2019s better at understanding it\u2019s a tool, not something to be afraid of. This year was rough financially for us, but not as bad as it could have been. But because of what we went through, we were able to do it. Drew\u2019s restaurant closed unexpectedly. So of course, I went into my baby Mikey mode of no money. We can\u2019t spend anything.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:03]\u00a0Then I was like, \u201cOkay, stop catastrophizing. I make enough for both of us in reality.\u201d So made the decision for him to go back to school, which was rough on him actually to not make money. It was really rough because now he wasn\u2019t bringing anything in. So we get our on merry way on that. And then in July, work told me I\u2019d be laid off in August.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah, okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:24]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0But we had put plans in place because I don\u2019t think it was on the show, and it was like, what would happen if you would lose your job? And it made me take a step back, like, what would we do?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:32]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0So we put things in place where we put everything automatic, which we were almost there, but then we also pulled everything into one account. We did that stuff. And I used Quicken. And I was able to say like, we can spend this much money and we\u2019ll be fine until, what\u2019d I say? September of this year. We have been fine.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:50]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0So we had enough that September of this year would\u2019ve been a problem.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:54]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0But Drew was able to take that and be like, \u201cOkay, let\u2019s work with what we have. Let\u2019s talk through it. Let\u2019s really think through what we\u2019re spending money on and what we did.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s quite amazing. So both of you were unemployed during parts of last year, and you both talked about it. You had put plans in place for what if something goes wrong and you were able to survive, not just survive, but even more than survive this hardship. Can we give it up? That\u2019s amazing. That\u2019s quite advanced. You know what\u2019s cool?<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:33]\u00a0Little things like that, you really can tell connection. It\u2019s obvious that the two of you did it together. It\u2019s obvious that it wasn\u2019t just one person and the other feeling really anxious. It\u2019s clear there\u2019s a connection. That\u2019s exactly what money is about in a relationship. So I appreciate that. When we talked, you were working at a restaurant first, then we talked afterwards and you were going to be going into HR. Update me on that. Where are you now?<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:57]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve done another 360, I feel like. Because I realized HR is a little bit of the devil and protects the big bad corporate guy, and I was not about to do that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:08]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Actually, the same day I lost my job is the same day I started school, and I\u2019m back in school to be a paralegal.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Whoa.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:14]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll be done in May. So if anyone in here is a lawyer and needs a paralegal in May, DM Ramit, and he\u2019ll message me.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. All right. I like it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:24]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, so going to school, paralegal, thinking right now, because of everything I\u2019ve experienced as a server, employment law or also IP law, like with AI and social media, I think IP law\u2019s going to be some money honey. Everyone\u2019s always going to need a lawyer, and a lawyer\u2019s always going to need a paralegal, so\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:42]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Jobs occur to you.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you use my dream job stuff that I sent you?<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:45]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0I did. I did a lot of that. When I first decided to go back, I did the informational interviews, and I started reaching out to people I knew from college or people I knew through social circles that were lawyers or adjacent, and started asking questions, what are you looking for? Who do I talk to? What do I do? And it\u2019s worked out well.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And Mikey, what was it like for you to watch Drew go through this career progression?<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:11]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0It made me happy because it\u2019s going to make more money than a server. No, it was really good because I think he was a little floating, just trying to figure out what he wanted.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:22]\u00a0Because the deal was, \u201cWhen he was like, I want to go back to school for paralegal,\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cAll right, one class. Because if you don\u2019t like it, we\u2019re only a couple of hundred dollars out. We can move on.\u201d So we took one class. He really liked it, and as he\u2019s going through the classes, I see it. Unfortunately, we have a good friend who\u2019s a lawyer and now they talk lawyer crap, and it\u2019s really annoying, really, really annoying.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like this little dipping our toes into what\u2019s next. But you know what else I like? Drew, I like that you were going for HR. You started to go down that path and then you realize it\u2019s not for me. I have to say, it\u2019s really hard to make a shift when you have put your eggs in one basket and you\u2019ve told people publicly, this is what I\u2019m going for. That\u2019s common. It\u2019s hard. But I like that you said, this isn\u2019t for me. I\u2019m finding something else.<\/p>\n<p>[01:19:15]\u00a0<strong>Drew:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I just realized too with it, when people ask me what I wanted to do for a job, I was like, \u201cMake more money.\u201d Not serving was the answer. And now I get excited. I know exactly what I want to do, which has never happened in my 36 years of existence. So it feels good to know where I\u2019m going.<\/p>\n<p>[01:19:32]\u00a0<strong>Mikey:<\/strong>\u00a0And he\u2019s happy. He\u2019s really happy. After doing the show and before the show a little bit, it was always like, what do you want to do? At the end of the day, we just want to be happy. So if you could take what you make and be happy with it, that\u2019s all that matters. And that\u2019s what I was really hoping he found. And I\u2019m happy about that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:19:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. Drew and Mikey, thank you so much. I\u2019m so proud of you. Give it up to Drew and Mikey. Thank you, guys. It\u2019s so great to see you always. Drew and Mikey.<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:07]\u00a0Thank you, Chicago.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t often get to sit down with couples years after I first meet them.\u00a0But I love hearing how Drew and Mikey\u2019s relationship between them and with money continues to evolve. It\u2019s now been over a month since I first sat down with them on stage in Chicago, and Drew sent me this message just the other day.<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:47]\u00a0He said,\u00a0\u201cI\u2019m now interning for a solo owner practice where I\u2019ve assisted in mediation,\u00a0and trials and I love it.\u00a0It\u2019s\u00a0the first time I can remember doing work that feels correct. I get enjoyment out of it. I\u2019m driven by it. I continue to set up informational interview with old connections as well as new ones I\u2019ve made through this internship.\u00a0I can\u2019t wait to graduate in May. I currently have a 3.875 GPA.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:21:12]\u00a0Whoa.\u00a0Drew,\u00a0my man. Drew and Mikey have come so far since I met them two years ago on the Netflix show, and I hope to be able to say the same for Evelyn and Mike down the line.\u00a0I\u00a0have to commend Evelyn and Mike for coming on stage and sharing so openly.<\/p>\n<p>[01:21:28]\u00a0It\u2019s one thing to go through a coaching session with me in my coaching program. It\u2019s another thing to come on the podcast. It\u2019s entirely another thing to come in front of a live audience and share material like this\u2013 incredibly intimate, often taboo, totally unscripted, and we have no idea what\u2019s going to\u00a0happen.<\/p>\n<p>[01:21:50]\u00a0The fact that they were willing to come on stage tells me\u00a0that\u00a0they want to make a change, and my wish for them is to build true connection around money so they can create a\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0for themselves and for their kids.<\/p>\n<p>[01:22:04]\u00a0Now let\u2019s check out the updates from Evelyn and Mike.<\/p>\n<p>[01:22:07]\u00a0<strong>Mike:<\/strong>\u00a0Some of the support from the crowd that I received,\u00a0I was not expecting that much feedback.\u00a0Just how affirmed I felt.\u00a0There\u2019s layers to peel back of previous conversations that I can\u2019t just jump to.\u00a0And\u00a0I\u00a0try to assume that Evelyn\u2019s working through her takeaways and changes and try and be a partner in that together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:22:26]\u00a0How I\u2019m going to\u00a0change going forward is\u00a0we\u2019ve already discussed this about creating a budget, and we\u2019ve created a way to track it better for my hobbies that Evelyn has concern about.\u00a0And so that\u2019s something I want to implement for 2025,\u00a0is having that hobby budget\u00a0that Ramit suggested and working together with it and showing it to Evelyn.\u00a0And\u00a0yeah, using that to have positive discussions going forward, not conflicts.<\/p>\n<p>[01:22:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now, let\u2019s hear from Evelyn.<\/p>\n<p>[01:22:52]\u00a0<strong>Evelyn:<\/strong>\u00a0Two weeks ago, Mike and I were on stage.\u00a0It was a really eye-opening experience.\u00a0And more than that, I\u2019ve told my friends, it felt like a life-shifting experience for me, akin to when I had my children or when I tasted a chocolate molten cake for the first time.\u00a0It was just life shifting.<\/p>\n<p>[01:23:09]\u00a0To be honest, when I applied, I expected Ramit to give a stern talking to with Mike and just tell him to stop eating fried foods from the state fair or ask him to dig in deeper into his spending habits.\u00a0And there was very little of that.\u00a0Most of it was analyzing my history, my family dynamics with money and where my insecurity and uncertainty comes from in terms of expecting how we run our finances.<\/p>\n<p>[01:23:37]\u00a0The last thing Ramit said to us was teamwork. And I think that even though it\u2019s something we all have in mind or say with\u00a0regularity at work or at home, at the end of the day, if I\u2019m approaching conversations or even my mindset with a me against you lens, it is really counterproductive to moving the relationship forward.<\/p>\n<p>[01:23:56]\u00a0There was a time when I was telling Ramit how much money we\u2019ve saved or how much money we\u2019ve earned because of my aggressive,\u00a0negotiating tactics. And he rolled his eyes and was like, who cares? Is that worth sacrificing some of the relationship? It was eye-opening for me that he actually said that to me, even though I have seen his negotiating videos before.<\/p>\n<p>[01:24:16]\u00a0So when I feel myself getting resentful or\u00a0I\u00a0feel myself feeling negative about Mike and his purchases, big or small. I just take a different turn and think through why I\u2019m thinking that way\u00a0hopefully cements us as true partners in this marriage, not just in name or in the bank accounts we share, or the children we share, but in our heart, in our spirit, in our finances.\u00a0They say that expectations are resentments\u00a0in\u00a0training, and I think that this conversation helped me reset my expectations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Live from the House of Blues in Chicago, Ramit coaches Evelyn and Mike (41). Despite their successful careers, money is a constant source of tension. Evelyn scrutinizes every purchase, while Mike feels frustrated by the endless debates over small expenses. Can Evelyn let go of her scarcity mindset and start trusting their financial future? Plus, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118824","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118824","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118824"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118824\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118824"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118824"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}