{"id":118847,"date":"2025-01-07T10:30:14","date_gmt":"2025-01-07T14:30:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118847"},"modified":"2026-02-18T15:46:37","modified_gmt":"2026-02-18T19:46:37","slug":"190-maggie-justin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/190-maggie-justin\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 190. \u201cIs our relationship going to end on air?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cIs our relationship going to end on air?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/0QSdeUBr9Pw\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/6ZsvmeqqxnHK1luesEY1hu?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Justin, 38, and Maggie, 34, join the show to unpack a growing tension in their relationship\u2014her hesitation to combine finances. Maggie spent her twenties traveling the world and is now laser-focused on building her future, while Justin shares her love for travel but envisions a future together. With Maggie making life plans that might not include him, Justin is left feeling hurt and uncertain. Can they bridge the gap and take their relationship to the next level?<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Thrive Market | Head to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/thrivemarket.com\/RAMIT\">https:\/\/thrivemarket.com\/RAMIT<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0and get 30% off your first order\u2014plus a FREE $60 gift!<\/p>\n<p>ZocDoc | Download the ZocDoc app for FREE at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/zocdoc.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/zocdoc.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0then find and book a top-rated doctor today.<\/p>\n<p>Trust &amp; Will | Secure your assets and protect your loved ones. Get 10% off plus free shipping on your estate plan documents by visiting\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trustandwill.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/trustandwill.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Netsuite | Get visibility to everything in your business in one place. Sign up and defer payments, with no interest, for six months at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/netsuite\">https:\/\/iwt.com\/netsuite<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2014 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/booktour\">Get tickets to Money for Couples LIVE coming to a city near you in January<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:01:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0On today\u2019s episode\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:17]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Is this going to be the end of my relationship on air?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meet Justin and Maggie.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:22]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re freelancers. We\u2019re really good at making money, not necessarily planning on how to spend it. I\u2019m the responsible one right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And who\u2019s he?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:30]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe the irresponsible one.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Justin is 38.\u00a0Maggie\u2019s 34. They\u2019ve been dating for a couple of years and Maggie does not want to combine finances with Justin.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:40]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I just want some similar priorities and some similar game plan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie spent her\u00a020s\u00a0traveling the world.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:49]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I was traveling for six years out of a backpack and working from my laptop. My goal was to make good money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now she\u2019s focused on the future.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:56]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to save a bunch of money, and that\u2019s the mindset I\u2019m in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Justin also loves to travel,\u00a0and he wants a future with Maggie.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:02]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I definitely put experiences and living life before anything else.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now that Maggie is making life plans that might not include him, Justin feels hurt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:14]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I just really didn\u2019t feel like there was a we or us, I was like, \u201cWhere do I fit in on this?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now that Maggie is making life plans that might not include him, Justin feels hurt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:25]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s safe to say that we\u2019re at a point where it\u2019s like, if it doesn\u2019t change, it\u2019s not going to last.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now let\u2019s meet Justin and Maggie.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:34]\u00a0I\u2019ve got Justin and Maggie\u2019s CSP in front of me getting ready for our conversation. Check out what I noticed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:39]\u00a0All right. Let\u2019s take a look. Maggie and Justin. Maggie spent her 20s backpacking through different countries. She has big financial dreams. She wants stability. Justin grew up wealthy. He\u2019s run his own business, but never really paid attention. Money comes, money goes. They started an LLC together for their YouTube channel on motorcycles. Justin wants to combine finances and their lives. Maggie doesn\u2019t want to get caught up in the financial mess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:06]\u00a0On the flip side, he feels like he supported Maggie financially, and she\u2019s not willing to reciprocate that. Trust is an issue. She doesn\u2019t trust that he\u2019ll get his financial life together. Wow. There\u2019s a lot going on here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:18]\u00a0I\u2019m looking now at their CSP. Looks like they have not combined their finances. That\u2019s fine. Her net worth is 45,000. His net worth is negative 63,000. She has 1,000 bucks invested. He has 7,000. She has 16,000 saved. He has 1,000. And, wow, she has 15k of debt. He has 92k of debt. All right. Let\u2019s go to the income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:48]\u00a0They make a pretty healthy income. 120 for her, 100 to 250k for him. That\u2019s a lot of income. 267,000 a year? Let\u2019s keep going. I got to say, there\u2019s something fishy about these numbers. I wonder if there\u2019s some mixing of business in here. I\u2019ve seen this before where sometimes numbers don\u2019t add up, and it\u2019s usually one or both people are in a business and they\u2019re counting some of their business expenses and things like that. So maybe that\u2019s what\u2019s going on here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:17]\u00a0Let\u2019s keep going. 36% going towards guilt-free spending, which is 7,444. I doubt that that number is true. I think it just flowed down to the bottom. My guess is that they could probably put more towards debt and pay that off aggressively. My overall assessment. One, they make a lot of money. That part is good. Two, they have separate finances. That\u2019s okay. I\u2019d like to understand more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:45]\u00a0Three, there\u2019s a bit of a disparity, not just in their spending, but certainly in their debt levels. And four, the way they treat money and they treat each other, there are little clues showing up here on the CSP, but it\u2019s really probably going to come out when I talk to them. So I\u2019m very interested to speak to them and see what\u2019s going on here.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:07]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We are going to be moving next year and the question is, what can we afford? We\u2019re freelancers. I don\u2019t know anything about your situation. I just wanted to get on the same page.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0First of all, do you talk about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:17]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Money\u2019s been a weird thing for me, but I was like, man, if I feel like I had somebody that I could tackle life with, this is her. But we just couldn\u2019t get there. It didn\u2019t happen. But finally it was like, hey, I\u2019m going to put us on public display and we\u2019re going to talk about all the things that most people never talk about.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you tried to talk about money in this relationship?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:38]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Kind of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:39]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How did it go?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:40]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I set up a spreadsheet that I\u2019ve been working off of last year and I was like, \u201cWhat are your fixed costs a month? What are our goals? Hey, put your numbers in here. Look at mine.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you realize my question was how did you talk about money? And your answer was, I created a spreadsheet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:57]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, exactly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Anybody find that a little odd?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:00]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s what we\u2019re here today for. Yeah. Talking about money, especially first few conversations probably should not involve a spreadsheet. What was your reaction when you saw that spreadsheet, by the way?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:11]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I was like, \u201cGreat, here we go.\u201d I already hate doing money, and I feel like I have an overwhelming situation in general. And then on top of that it was just like, we never talked about really anything, debt, goals.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When you felt all these things overwhelm, and there\u2019s complexity in your financial lives, what was your reaction with this spreadsheet? Did you fill it out?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:33]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. For one month and then I stopped.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now your finances are separate, correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:38]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Kind of. We have a partnership with the YouTube channel.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you have separate finances, but you have a joint venture and you make money through that, but you also make money independently.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:49]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I can see why it feels confusing, but it\u2019s quite common. The good news is there are solutions for this situation. All right. So you both live together. How do you pay the rent or mortgage?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:02]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0One of us manages the rent because we have three adults in our household. Justin currently is taking care of rent, so we send him rent, but I\u2019m managing the bills. There was a period of time where I was managing the rent and Justin was managing the bills, and we weren\u2019t able to get a number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:21]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I wasn\u2019t every month being like, \u201cOkay, it was $250 for all the things. We have to split it.\u201d I just threw it on the credit card and stacked up a bunch of bills.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh. Why\u2019d you do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:32]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, it was just a set it and forget it and I screwed myself honestly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What\u2019s a time in the last six months where the two of you really disagreed about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:44]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0She doesn\u2019t like the way I spend my money on sunglasses.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s it? I don\u2019t think you guys flew across the country to talk about 100-dollar sunglasses.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:52]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m in the dark, I feel like about his financial situation, but I can do simple math in my head sometimes and I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is not adding up that you spent $400 on sunglasses this month.\u201d I think there\u2019s certain things where I\u2019m just like, I don\u2019t spend money like that and I\u2019m really on top of my expenses.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:08]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0The one thing that\u2019s been contentious and difficult, and it\u2019s a really complicated situation overall is that our roommate is Maggie\u2019s best friend, and she had a brain tumor a few years ago and had it removed. But it\u2019s the type of thing that eventually will come back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:26]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It is coming back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:27]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Is coming back. And so she\u2019s going on medication now, but more or less all the disposable income or whatever Maggie\u2019s setting aside is going to taking care of her and her kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:40]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s two kids that live with us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:41]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a tough situation to be in because I feel like that\u2019s the priority and I\u2019m not necessarily in that bubble.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meaning Maggie\u2019s friend and her children are the financial priority for Maggie and you feel your maybe second priority?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:59]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Or not a priority at all in that regard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And what is the financial resources that you\u2019re putting behind your friend? Are you her caretaker?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:06]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Not right now. There\u2019s things where I\u2019ll plan trips with them and I\u2019ll take care of everything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And your friend, does she earn money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:15]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, she does. One of my goals for all of us is that financially we\u2019re splitting a house between three adults. This is a chance for all of us to catch up on some finance things. But we weren\u2019t necessarily on the same page with that as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:30]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I had it as my goal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you ever talk about that? Hey, it\u2019s going to three of us splitting expenses, so this is a chance for us to pay off debt and get ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:38]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, her and Ashley talked way more about finances and getting ahead than Maggie and I did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you ever talked about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:45]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie was trying to convince me why we should have another adult and two children living in her house and as part of that it should be because we get to save more money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And your reaction was?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:54]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How would you characterize the dynamic of money in your household?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:59]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m the responsible one right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And who\u2019s he?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:02]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe the irresponsible one by default.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:08]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Pretty accurate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. That makes my job easier.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:12]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0There was a time though, in the beginning of our relationship where it was very flipped. I was paying all the bills and some, and I helped out considerably when it came to finances.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Were you making more?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:26]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I was making a lot more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re making more,\u00a0so you were paying the majority of the bills. And when you say \u201cand more\u201d, what\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:32]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0So for the first year that we were together, Maggie was doing this influencer thing and I wanted to help her out, so I was like, how about I put you on payroll and you can help me with some stuff? I need to redo my website and maybe you can help me come up with some strategy for a business.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It kept me afloat. And at the time he was making money, he was paying another full-time employee and had an office and I didn\u2019t know his situation. And I think right off the bat, I haven\u2019t known exactly what his situation was. And that was where it started. And then a lot of that, it felt like was getting held over my head and I was like, \u201cOkay, we need to move away from this dynamic. I don\u2019t want that to be a part of our relationship.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:15]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0And I went and started finding work and found jobs and started holding my own and then I was like, \u201cOkay, cool.\u201d I still didn\u2019t know what his situation was. I\u2019m like, \u201cYou should be in a much better place now that I\u2019m not such a strain on it.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you say that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:30]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:30]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Not necessarily.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you not talk about this stuff at all?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:34]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We talk about it. There was just a lot of struggle with relationship stuff that we were working through, and to have money tied into it, I think that\u2019s also added to maybe the aversion to talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Who\u2019s aversion?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:48]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Both of us. Finance is always a tricky thing. It can cause a lot of trouble in a relationship. It\u2019s sometimes subjective. Whether I\u2019m spending $200 on a pair of glasses, for me that makes sense and that doesn\u2019t make sense for somebody else.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s interesting you say that with the sunglass example. I agree. It might make sense for you. Your partner might think it doesn\u2019t make sense, but it seems to me that you both don\u2019t have a way of deciding if that\u2019s a good decision or not. How would you decide right now if buying 200-dollar sunglasses is a good decision or not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:23]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that Maggie would feel much more confident in my choice of spending $200 on sunglasses if she knew that I had my finances handled.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:34]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely not. I shouldn\u2019t have been buying 200-dollar sunglasses.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. So Maggie, your concern is probably warranted. But when you express the concern, how\u2019s it received?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:47]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It just doesn\u2019t come off right. I just know that there\u2019s been a bit of a blind eye turn to them, it feels like, because it was happening when we split bills last year to the point where I was like, \u201cHow about I manage that? Because it seems like it\u2019s a lot.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:59]\u00a0Anytime rent was paid, we asked, \u201cWhat do we owe for bills?\u201d And he\u2019s like, \u201cI need to take a look at it,\u201d was the answer. And then it wouldn\u2019t get taken a look at. And there\u2019s a lot going on. No, we probably should have hounded him, but it got to the point where we hadn\u2019t paid anything in a couple of months and I did say like, \u201cI know this is stacking up and we can\u2019t back pay. So let me manage that and you just handle the rent part because it\u2019s a flat rate every month. We divide it three ways. We always know what it is. It\u2019s all the same.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And is that where you are now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:29]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s where we\u2019re at now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Any different opinion on what happened?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:34]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0They asked a couple of times and then what happened is later on when we started doing spreadsheets and looking at the bills, I was like, \u201cI\u2019ve been paying for the bills the whole time and it\u2019s been going on my credit card and it\u2019s stacked up a couple thousand dollars\u2019 worth of bills at this point.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:49]\u00a0And then she was like, \u201cOh, well, we asked. And you never gave us an answer, so we\u2019re not going to back pay you now and you\u2019re going to have to take care of that. And then moving forward, we\u2019ll switch over. I\u2019ll take care of the utilities and then you can take the rent.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that what happened? You did not get the back pay?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:07]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I did not get the back pay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Why is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:10]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It had just stacked up a lot. It hit a tipping point where it was like, I don\u2019t even know where we stand on this because he had been managing it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Justin, it sounds like you were probably not as forthcoming communicating about what\u2019s owed every single month. I agree. He\u2019s probably owed back pay. Even though it might be difficult, you can\u2019t write a check all at once. I can understand that. Are you frustrated by the back pay still?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:36]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s [Bleep]. It\u2019s [Bleep].<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:38]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0How much is owed?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:40]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a great question. I didn\u2019t need to go back and figure that out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You mentioned you\u2019re responsible in this dynamic and you called him irresponsible. What are we talking about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:49]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Just being aware. I wouldn\u2019t say I\u2019m on top of everything, but I definitely have a lot more awareness, and that\u2019s all it is. I\u2019m setting aside my savings. I should be saving more, but I\u2019m hitting what I set out to save every single month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So is that what you want from Justin?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:06]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you told him that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:08]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:09]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t want him to be not going to Starbucks when he wants to, or not buying sunglasses he wants to. I just think he\u2019s been doing that without consciously making a plan to pay off the debt that he\u2019s got.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What if he doesn\u2019t? Because some people are aware, but they choose to make different decisions than you might.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:24]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not that he doesn\u2019t get to do those things. I don\u2019t want those things stripped away. I just want it to come after the, okay, I put the chunk that I need to towards debt. I have a plan for it. Because there\u2019s things that we\u2019ve discussed recently when I was like, eventually I want to build a mini farm and have an a-frame house on a piece of property in southern Utah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:42]\u00a0And he\u2019s like, \u201cWell, where do I fit into that plan?\u201d I\u2019m like, \u201cThis is my plan because I don\u2019t know where you sit and I need to be met halfway to even think of a plan with you on this.\u201d It\u2019s my dream right now because I\u2019m saving for it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:54]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0She was like, \u201cI just don\u2019t trust you, and how can I put our names together on anything?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You said that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:02]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Different words but I don\u2019t feel like I can trust that you\u2019ve got things handled.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why didn\u2019t you trust him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:09]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Because he seemed to be struggling quite a bit and I just didn\u2019t know. I should have asked more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is the goal that the two of you stay together for the long term?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:24]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:25]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I hope so.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And is the goal that you get married or no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:29]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Okay. Wait, that was interesting. She says no. What do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:35]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s a part of me that wants to get married, and we\u2019ve had this conversation, and this is a step in the right direction of being able to be trusted enough for her to marry me one day.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess what I\u2019m trying to understand is, what does your future together look like? Because maybe it involves marriage, maybe not. That\u2019s fine. But when I hear about things like building a house in southern Utah and then Justin, you very pointedly say, \u201cWhere do I fit in?\u201d And I hear this answer that is, well, this is my plan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:04]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0As part of this farm conversation, honestly, it was pretty tough. I was pretty hurt because I just felt like she\u2019s like, \u201cI\u2019m going off.\u201d And she had property for her best friend that she was including on this land, and there wasn\u2019t any conversation of me even having a room there, and definitely not being a part of helping build it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:23]\u00a0I just really didn\u2019t feel like there was a we or us, or I was part of the conversation, and I brought it up. I was like, \u201cWhere do I fit in on this?\u201d And she\u2019s like, \u201cWell, you don\u2019t. I need to build something so I have some passive income.\u201d And then she looked at me and said, \u201cWhat\u2019s yours? This is my dream. What\u2019s yours?\u201d And that was the like, damnit, this is why I like this girl so much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:47]\u00a0Because it really did light a fire under my [Bleep]. Following her dream of building a farm in Utah doesn\u2019t need to be my dream. And so I can go over here and start doing something else. And I have my own ways of potentially making passive income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Was that a satisfying answer to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:04]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It wasn\u2019t like I\u2019m going to go live on this farm and homestead for 10 years, is not the plan. It was like, how do I pick a piece of land that\u2019s in a corridor to national parks and I can short term rental it and we can be traveling wherever we want and stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So it seems like the two of you have talked about it. It seems like you have a plan. What\u2019s the problem?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:24]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I think the big one has been making plans together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. But you both just spent five minutes telling me how you have concluded you\u2019re going to make separate plans and you don\u2019t need to be together. What am I missing?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0A lot of double talk here. That\u2019s okay. This is common in relationships. This is what a third party can help us point out,\u00a0these murky alleyways that we tend to get stuck in in our relationship and how to shine a light and find our way out of them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:52]\u00a0Did you notice that they both started the episode by using jokes to avoid uncomfortable conversations? Out of respect for my guests,\u00a0I don\u2019t let them get away with that. My guests take a lot of time and preparation to see me. In this case, they flew across the country to be here, so I won\u2019t let them use the usual evasion techniques to get out of a substantive conversation, even if they are employing them unconsciously.\u00a0That\u2019s why I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0occasionally bring them back on track, even if it feels a little uncomfortable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:23]\u00a0Now,\u00a0Maggie sees herself as responsible and Justin as irresponsible. Justin is resentful that Maggie won\u2019t reimburse him for those utility bills that he covered. They don\u2019t talk about money. She\u2019s making plans for building a farm in Utah without him. And they say the problem is making plans together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0More after a short break from our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:45]\u00a0And now back to our conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:47]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m very much a like, I\u2019m not going to get involved. It\u2019s a lot of extreme independence, but I\u2019m like, I\u2019m just going to handle my stuff. And I think I haven\u2019t sat down and even thought about what I want for my partner. I want someone to meet me halfway. There\u2019s been some contention in the last year where I said something about helping my friend out. I was like, \u201cIf she has to start chemo, I can pay her way. I\u2019ve saved up enough to cover her expenses for three months.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:14]\u00a0And I got a weird reaction from him. He felt not prioritized and all this, and I just didn\u2019t know where it was coming from. But now understanding he was really struggling financially. So that\u2019s where he was expecting a partner to maybe help a little bit more. But I didn\u2019t know that was the expectation. So we both haven\u2019t been able to know what the other person expects of each other or haven\u2019t openly talked about, I think, what we want from our partners financially. And that\u2019s probably a big reason of why we\u2019re here too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you have anything that\u2019s going to force you to make a decision coming up? Because you could go like this for years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:53]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s multiple things going on. So my friend is going to start treatment in January and the first three months is going to be the most toughest. So I\u2019m wanting to stay and chill on the travel, all of that, to be closer. And then the lease is going to be up, but we\u2019re going to extend it month to month until the kids are done school so it\u2019s not disrupting that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:13]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0But then throughout that process, possibly Justin\u2019s going to move and start setting up the next place.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right now you live together, but you\u2019re going to move somewhere on your own. And what are you going to do there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:24]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Sleep, eat, workout.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:27]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Make money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s going on right now? I feel like you guys are really good at talking, but you\u2019re both avoiding talking about the reason that you\u2019re here. So do you guys want to get real with me? Why are we here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:40]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not expecting you to pay my debt, but there are couples who came together where one person was making $40,000 a year and the other made significantly more but they both worked on it together. And it wasn\u2019t just about making a spreadsheet and helping her husband figure it out on his own. It was like, we\u2019re going to do this together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:00]\u00a0And very much so, for me, a lot of this has been like, I feel like one foot\u2019s out the door always. There\u2019s this safety measure of like, \u201cAll right, if this relationship doesn\u2019t work, then I\u2019m out.\u201d And then the other side of it too is like, I just feel like a lot of the weight on all these things, it\u2019s like we just have to stand our own foot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you guys together or not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:25]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we\u2019re getting more on the same page.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How can that be? He\u2019s about to move out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:29]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I told him I want to move into a situation that one of us can handle because then as soon as I move into the house, if I need to pay for everything, all our expenses, fixed costs, all of that, so that you can go aggressively tackle debt, we have a plan together and we have more resources.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:44]\u00a0I\u2019ve been planning and pushing towards something that I know I can manage so that I can help. I like giving. I like taking care of people that I care about, and sometimes I get pretty spread thin, but we\u2019ll be able to tackle these things together next year. And that\u2019s the ultimate goal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is the goal specifically?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:04]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0That we can live in the same place and a place that\u2019s well below our means so he can tackle debt and I can save like I want to save.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I do you agree with that. Your goal is to live together, live beneath your means so that you can pay off debt aggressively.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:19]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0My goal is to live with her. But as far as the debt and all that stuff, this is new for me. This is literally like opening up your book and getting all my numbers down on a piece of paper and then being like, holy [Bleep], I really need to get myself out of this situation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So is that your plan, to pay off debt aggressively?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:39]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely. 100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0More circular reasoning here, but I\u2019m starting to see glimmers of what\u2019s actually going on. Both of them pride themselves on their extreme independence. That\u2019s their identity, but that identity becomes hard to reconcile with wanting to be together, especially when being together involves trade-offs.\u00a0It\u2019s almost like these identities are butting heads.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:04]\u00a0I can understand why Maggie is frustrated about how Justin handles money, but I also find that this dynamic happens when one partner begins on a financial journey and the other doesn\u2019t. This is really common. The person who\u2019s starting their journey gets frustrated with their partner.\u00a0Why aren\u2019t you engaging? Why aren\u2019t you doing this with me? Not realizing that a few years ago, they themselves were ignoring money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:30]\u00a0Now if you\u00a0want to\u00a0know how to recalibrate your relationship so that your partner also gets involved with money, I talk about this very specifically with word for word scripts in my new book,\u00a0Money for Couples.\u00a0You can get it at iwt.com\/moneyforcouples. And now listen to this. Justin tells me about his financial journey growing up,\u00a0and it\u2019s something I have never heard before.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you remember your parents or family saying about money when you were young?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:59]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0We really didn\u2019t talk about money, but I grew up with Ferraris in the garage and\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:04]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:05]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Extreme wealth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mom or dad was the higher earner?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:08]\u00a0<strong>Lauren:<\/strong>\u00a0Dad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Dad was the higher earner, like extreme higher earner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:10]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Extreme.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much do you think he made?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:12]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0A million dollars a day.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0A day?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:14]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0At one point. At one point, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What did he do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:18]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0He managed a hedge fund and he had his own firm. And he also got in a lot of trouble. I grew up as having the dad of Wolf of Wall Street, but not a bad guy. I think that he was working in Wall Street at a time when it was the Wild Wild West, and when they started to put some rules down, they were making examples out of people. The government was going after his former partner, and they used my dad to take him down, and it didn\u2019t quite go to my dad\u2019s advantage.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What happened to him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:50]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0He got incarcerated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:51]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0So he got put in a minimum security prison and decided one day that he didn\u2019t want to be there anymore. So my mom packed us up in a minivan and we went to Colorado, and my dad suddenly opens the door and gets in the minivan and then we drove out to San Diego and hopped on our sailboat and sailed across the South Pacific for three years as fugitives.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then when you came back, because you\u2019re here in the US now, did he get rearrested?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:22]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, he got arrested in New Zealand. We got busted there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Just to share how different my childhood was, we also had a minivan, but when it opened up, my dad would\u2019ve handed me a Spelling Bee book and said, why are you not reading this right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:35]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Mine was like, here\u2019s how we\u2019re going to be fugitives.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. How much money do you think your family had when you were growing up?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:44]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably tens of millions<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Does your dad still have a lot of money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:47]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0The money that he had from his Wall Street days got squandered<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s his financial status now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:54]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019s got nothing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:56]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What messages did you take away from going from extreme wealth to not having a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:04]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, right. I have a funny relationship with money. I don\u2019t think I value it the same as most people. When I first got started in filmmaking, I was working for this guy, and one day he goes, \u201cYou grew up with money, didn\u2019t you?\u201d And I was like, \u201cYeah, how\u2019d you know that? Because I\u2019m not flaunting anything.\u201d And he is like, \u201cI can tell because you\u2019re just not hungry like other people are.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:27]\u00a0And I was like, \u201cWhat do you mean by that?\u201d And he is like, \u201cWell, people who grew up with no money will bend over backwards, and to me it just seems like you always have a fallback plan.\u201d And I took that to heart and changed my work ethic quite a bit because of that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:41]\u00a0But the cool thing about growing up with money is that you\u2019re not afraid to take risks. And that\u2019s very true. I feel like a lot of the reason that I\u2019ve gotten as far as I have in my career and doing the things that I do is because I\u2019ll go all in. And I do believe in those lottery tickets. I believe that\u2013 yes, I\u2019ve been reading your book, and if you have a steady paycheck and you\u2019re just steady at putting away money, 30 years down the line you\u2019ll have a million dollars. I know that\u2019s true, but I also do know that sometimes if you take a big enough risk, a calculated risk, that the reward can be huge.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Maggie, what do you make of this story? What is your take hearing it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:24]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s made for some really interesting adult problems with money for sure. With the money situation, it\u2019s like it just comes and it flows through Justin.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:36]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Like water?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:37]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, exactly. There\u2019s not a lot of thought given to it because it\u2019s like, even when it\u2019s not an unlimited resource, it\u2019s treated as such.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you mean that money comes, money goes? If you\u2019re raised with millions and millions of dollars, it starts to become so abstract. You\u2019re just like, whatever. If it\u2019s not here today, there\u2019ll be another way tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:00]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And I think for me, I would say money\u2019s freedom. I think when you work hard and you make money, you can free up your time. If you manage your money well, you can live really well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What does it mean to you, Justin?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:11]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I just wish we didn\u2019t rely on it. I live a Rich Life, but I\u2019m not rich for sure. I definitely put experiences and living life before anything else.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Do you agree or disagree, Maggie?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:23]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you\u2019re both on the same page on that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:26]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Experiences above accumulation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:31]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, hold on. That\u2019s shifted for you now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:33]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve had a really different perspective shift. Prior to the pandemic, I was traveling for six years out of a backpack and working from my laptop. My goal was to eventually figure out a way to be a six-figure hobo. I don\u2019t want to be tied to any destination, but I want to make good money. And then on my 30th birthday, I was on the beach in Thailand with $5 to my name and I\u2019m like, \u201cI have not figured out the six-figure hobo thing, and I\u2019m not saving. I\u2019m not doing anything like that.\u201d And that was when a big shift happened.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What has changed for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:00]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m prioritizing saving. It means a lot more what I leave for my friend\u2019s kids. If anything were to happen to me, I\u2019m crazy Aunt Maggie, and I think they\u2019ll always be in my life. So leaving something for them, being able to have the time to spend with them, being able to save money. Not necessarily buy a farm, but I would like to do stuff like that. What\u2019s the next financial goal that I could strive for and make happen? Have a retirement, which I\u2019ve never thought about before.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So is it fair to say that both of you prioritize experiences in your 20s and now Maggie, you are much more conscious of things like retirement savings rate, etc., and Justin maybe not, and that\u2019s causing conflict?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:41]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:42]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Definitely. When Maggie and I got together, I was like sick. Now I have somebody who\u2019s down to go to India. We won\u2019t make any money, but we also will break even. So life experience, cha-ching. And I thought that that\u2019s who I had by my side. And suddenly she was like, oh, no, no, no. Wait, hold on. I got to put a aside. I got to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s like, what about the debt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:02]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0401K. Yeah. Right, right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fair enough. This happens when couples meet and then one partner changes, and it causes a lot of conflict. And there\u2019s either a recalibration or a separation. Sounds like you\u2019re both trying to recalibrate. What about things like retirement? What about if one of you gets sick or you want to leave money to the niece and nephew, etc.? How do you do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:25]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Actually, finally having these open conversations about money has shifted our ability to talk about that and figure it out. One thing that has been a healthy part of this conversation, especially around finances, is that one thing we both agreed that we really would like to do in the future is sail around the world on a sailboat.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:47]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0And that\u2019s way off.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:48]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s something we\u2019re working towards together to get there, but is a retirement plan. And so there is this like future that\u2019s a ways out that we both decided that is what we both want to do. And as part of this conversation about finances, it\u2019s been like, well, how much does a boat cost? How much are we going to need every month to be able to survive on it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:09]\u00a0So it\u2019s opened up some conversations on like, what do we need to do to get to that point? What do we need to put aside, and do I need to hustle now? Do I need to give up on some of these other things?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much do you need specifically?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:19]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t know yet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:20]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We have to figure that out. What we\u2019ve been good at is it\u2019s like, cool, we want to do something, we can make money up here like that. And then all of a sudden it\u2019s gone and we\u2019re right back where we were before we started. I want it to be where it\u2019s like, oh, you want to do Japan for your birthday?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:33]\u00a0Let\u2019s just talk about it six months out. And we already have funds. We already know that that\u2019s a part of what we love doing together. I don\u2019t want to stop travel. I don\u2019t want to not be able to go to Japan. I want it to be something we work into our plan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think that you\u2019re on track to be able to live that kind of life where you\u2019re talking six months, 12 months, two years out?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:53]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think we\u2019re on track right now, but I think that\u2019s why we\u2019re here, is that we\u2019re having those conversations.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m glad you\u2019re having the conversations. But there\u2019s a lot more to making changes than having conversations. It seems like things have changed in the last month. That\u2019s awesome. But what\u2019s next? We can talk about things forever. We can spin, but we need to actually make some tangible financial changes.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you enjoy these videos, you\u00a0want to\u00a0be the first to know when a new one drops,\u00a0make sure you hit that Subscribe button right now. It really helps my team and me grow this channel.\u00a0We\u2019ll open up their conscious spending plan after the short break from our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:29]\u00a0Welcome back. Let\u2019s keep going.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s take a look at your CSP. So let\u2019s see. Maggie, can you read off the word in bold and then the numbers next to them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:40]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Put these out because we\u2019re separate. So assets 42,800 and 21,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a021,000 for Justin.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:49]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Investments, 1,375 and 7,000 for Justin. Savings 16,657 for me and 1,313 for Justin. And debt, 15,389 for me and Justin has 92,950.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, great. Total net worth for you, Maggie, is 45,000 and for you Justin is negative 63,000. Okay. What do you both think about these numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:20]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d like to be in a different place at the end of next year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:24]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0That sucks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Okay, so both of you\u2019re not happy with the numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:27]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s go on to the income. Justin, go ahead and read off both incomes, if you don\u2019t mind.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:36]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Gross monthly income for Maggie is $9,250 and for me it is 12,100 on average.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so total you two are making $21,350 a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:51]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. 256,000. That\u2019s a lot of money. And you live in Vegas? Would you agree that your income is impressive, especially if you were to look at it together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:02]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:02]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, great. That\u2019s kind of cool. So you\u2019re at 21,350 gross. That\u2019s 21,000 a month. And you\u2019re at roughly 16,000 a month? All right.\u00a0So your fixed costs are\u00a073%. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:20]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d like them to be lower. I\u2019d like it to be closer to 50%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The recommendation I typically give is 50 to 60%. With a high income and presumably low fixed expenses, that number should be probably towards the lower end of that range. So your rent, 14%. Your rent is quite low. That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:41]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Because we have three people.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fantastic. All right. No issue on the rent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:46]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We put child support under Justin\u2019s rent because we didn\u2019t know where to put an extra 1,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s fine. So you pay an extra $1,000 a month on child support.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:55]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s see here. We have car payment and transportation. What? 3,000 bucks a month? What kind of car is this?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0summarize a few things here.\u00a0As we discussed Maggie and Justin\u2019s monthly car and transportation fixed costs, I discovered that they were co-mingling personal and business expenses in their CSP. This is a very common rookie mistake. We had to make some adjustments on the fly so that we could get a clearer picture of their numbers.\u00a0Specifically, we changed Maggie\u2019s total car payment to $1,100 and Justin\u2019s to $1,700.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. We\u2019re back at 70%. Let\u2019s keep moving. Justin, you\u2019re paying $718 a month towards debt. Let\u2019s talk about your debt. You have a motorcycle loan, 21,000, that\u2019s at 8%. And then you have a 19,000-dollar credit card payment. And then who\u2019s got this business loan for $51,000? What is that for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:53]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the EIDL on the relief loan during COVID.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you get waived or you have to pay it off?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:00]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0No. I have to pay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And the credit card debt, what\u2019s that for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:04]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:06]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0A big reason that I\u2019ve stacked up a lot of credit card debt is because my pay is so inconsistent. What happens for me is that I get a certain percentage that\u2019s supposed to go to paying back my expenses. So I\u2019ll go do something where I travel somewhere. I have to pay all that upfront. I put it on my credit card. And what\u2019s happened this year especially is that I don\u2019t know when my next paycheck is coming.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:29]\u00a0So rather than take the 50% that was expenses and put that towards paying off my credit card right away, I\u2019ve been choosing to pay off my credit card slowly and have just stacked up. And there\u2019s probably a couple thousand of that back paid utilities.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So you\u2019re at 70% fixed cost. Just looking at the rest of it here. Groceries, 800; clothes, 300 bucks a month. What is this? Because you guys are influencers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:54]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I actually really don\u2019t feel like I buy that much clothes, but she\u2019s trying to average it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie, you spend 100 bucks a month on clothes average?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:00]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I think that\u2019s accurate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then Justin, 200 bucks a month, which means 2,400 bucks a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:06]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0This year I spent more money than I have in a long time on sunglasses, and I bought two pairs.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll make it\u00a0100\u00a0instead of 200. Okay. All\u00a0right.\u00a0Cool. So that\u2019s 1,200 bucks a year. Fine. Phone, one person\u2019s paying 390. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:20]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I pay for my daughter\u2019s phone. I pay for her phone. I pay for my former employee\u2019s phone, and I pay for my phone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re a very generous guy, but you have $20,000 in credit card debt. Maybe it\u2019s time to be generous towards yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:34]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie, what do you say about you paying\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:37]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0She already agreed she will.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. So can we take this number and adjust it? Let\u2019s say 80 and then you\u2019re going to pay for your daughter, so you\u2019re\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:45]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Actually, I\u2019m getting her mom to take it over.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. So let\u2019s say\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:48]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll be on the one phone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. 80 bucks each. I think it\u2019s quite reasonable. All\u00a0right.\u00a0So we\u2019ve made a few little corrections here. I think that\u2019s good. Just ironing out the details. Oh, subscriptions are 2,250. That\u2019s 2,250. So of that therapy is 700 bucks. What\u2019s the rest of the subscriptions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:07]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Mine is 500 for a personal trainer that I\u2019m ending this month. So it will be 360. And all our subscriptions except for maybe like Spotify and a Netflix subscription, at least on my end is all business stuff. Because we need the Adobe Creative\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That needs to not be in here. That needs to be in your business.\u00a0So how much should I put here for personal?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:28]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s still\u00a0going to\u00a0be a lot\u2013 900.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.\u00a0Guys, what do you think I make of this so far?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:33]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0We have a lot\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:34]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0So I just need to clean it up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What we just did was pretty cool. We went down the list, we identified some stuff. There were some conceptual things to change. No problem. We were like, \u201cWhy are you paying this much for X, Y, Z?\u201d You\u2019re like, \u201cOh, it\u2019s already in motion.\u201d Great. And guess what? Look at your fixed cost number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:53]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s number down to 61%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a061%. That\u2019s really good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:56]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0But Maggie\u2019s got really good and mine didn\u2019t really change very much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Agreed. And we should talk about that. We should. But I just want to acknowledge that jointly that\u2019s great. Now, the difference is Maggie\u2019s is at 47 and, Justin, yours at 71. 71 is still too high. We need to fix that. But we\u2019re on the right track.\u00a0Let\u2019s keep going. Investments are at 3% total. That\u2019s 6% for Maggie and 1% for Justin. Justin, you\u2019re putting away $90 a month for investments.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:30]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0What is this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:30]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I was. I haven\u2019t been.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, and I noticed you have some crypto as well. $2,700 in crypto. Okay. You still contribute to that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:41]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie, you put 400 bucks a month away into what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:44]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0$100 a week is automatically getting dumped into an account. But I still have to manually, manually putting it in a Roth. I\u2019ve also just been putting in savings for emergency fund.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So anybody doing any pre-tax investing like SEP-IRA, 401K, or anything?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:00]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I have a SEP-IRA of\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0[Inaudible].<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:01]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0A few thousand dollars in there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. You have 7,000 bucks in investments. That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:06]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s part of it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Maggie, I noticed that you have $1,375 in this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:12]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the Roth right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s basically you started investing\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:17]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Two months ago. Yeah. Is automatically putting it in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Let\u2019s take a look at your savings at 3%. Maggie\u2019s putting away 500 bucks a month. Justin not putting anything away. Right? What\u2019s that emergency fund? What is it for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:29]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the 16,000 I have in savings. So I wanted to start building up. It\u2019s in a Capital One, 4% savings account that I just wanted it separate from all my finances. Not like, oh, I\u2019m saving actually in a separate account. And I started doing that last year, but it hasn\u2019t been automated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Truthfully, when I look at people\u2019s finances, the vast majority, including my own, just consistent automatic stuff, and it can grow bigger than most people ever think. It\u2019s crazy. All right.\u00a0And then guilt-free spending is at 33%. So that\u2019s 40% for Maggie, that\u2019s 2,700 bucks a month. And for Justin it\u2019s 28% at 2,500. So what is that? Travel? Or is that just whatever\u2019s left?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:14]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Whatever\u2019s left.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels a little sloppy. It\u2019s hard to make sense of what\u2019s going on. We did a little bit of work with the fixed costs, but it\u2019s very unclear with your businesses. You\u2019ve commingled stuff, and part of this is just a one sheeter so you can start to see what\u2019s going on in our life. And what do we want to happen. Okay. So looking at this, what do you think are the major positive?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:42]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We make good money, and we can make more. We can pull gigs all the time, and we can do even better than that<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So that\u2019s the positive. I agree. What\u2019s a negative?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:52]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m not saving enough. I still want to automate everything, and I\u2019m still just getting those systems in place. I haven\u2019t set up a 401K and tied that to my business accounts where that\u2019s automatically going into.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What about for you, Justin? Positives and negatives.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:07]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It was good to see how much I\u2019m making.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You didn\u2019t know, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:11]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Not really. I get a report every year from my accountant, so every year I\u2019m like, \u201cWhoa, that\u2019s crazy. I can\u2019t believe I made that much.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The negatives?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:18]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It sucks to see how much debt I\u2019m in, and a lot of it\u2019s laziness, honestly. A lot of what I\u2019ve been reflecting on is just not necessarily being in the best place in my life and making smart decisions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0One thing I noticed when I asked both of you about positive and negatives, I didn\u2019t hear anything about your finances together. It\u2019s like I\u2019m talking to two separate people.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:44]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0You are though, and that\u2019s the truth of the matter. When we look at combined, it\u2019s like, so what? It doesn\u2019t matter. None of this is combined.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0None of it\u2019s combined, and there\u2019s no intention of combining it, correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:58]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Both of you agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:59]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s almost like, what\u2019s the point?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:01]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Now at least we were having the conversation. And so some of these things that have been my responsibility can at least be reallocated, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:08]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I like looking at the combined column because I know together we can do some damage and achieve the goals that we want. I don\u2019t see the debt as anything that isn\u2019t tackle-able. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s something we can\u2019t figure out together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:26]\u00a0It\u2019s not a we. The two of you are not together. You live together. You don\u2019t spend money together. You don\u2019t talk about money together. You don\u2019t have a vision together. So when you say we could, we can, yeah. I can play professional football\u00a0theoretically<strong>.<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:49]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Where the \u201cwe\u201d comes into play a little bit more is because of this YouTube channel that we\u2019ve been working on together. Right now we have over $120,000 in sponsorship pitches out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:03]\u00a0We\u2019ve talked about it and Maggie\u2019s like, \u201cLook\u2013\u201d Because my issue is that I don\u2019t have some consistent pay. So where the conversation has gone as a we is, okay, well, how about we take the money that we make from that sponsorship and we pay you a consistent salary. And that way next year you at least have something that\u2019s somewhat consistent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s play that out. So you have the YouTube channel. Let\u2019s say it grows modestly and some of those pitches come in, you get some money. How much are you getting paid?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:37]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I get paid 80 grand.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And the rest is for expenses.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:40]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0And the rest is for expenses. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then what happens if this happens 2, 3, 4 years? You keep getting paid 80k and then what happens to the two of you with your finances?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:51]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Right now our finances seem really separate, but like the financial decisions that we\u2019re making for next year, as far as what\u2019s affordable, I think we\u2019re coming at it together and we\u2019re talking about how much we do pay and how it\u2019s managed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So I just want to know from you, what do you need\u2013 and I hate to put you on the spot because I can see you have been taking charge of your own finances. And for me to ask you, what do you need from him feels like now you have to take on one more burden.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:19]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I hate that. And yet I am intentionally asking you that question because you two do not talk about money. Even though you think you do in the last month and it\u2019s gotten better, you\u2019re not talking about the bare minimum here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:33]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I just want some similar priorities and some similar game plan, and him to manage his finances. I don\u2019t want to feel like I have to take it on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you hear when she says that, Justin?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:46]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Making smarter decisions and being intentional, not just be like, \u201cAh, you know what? I\u2019ll take a little bit of this and put it towards that.\u201d And, \u201cOh, if I get my next big paycheck, I\u2019ll just wipe this out.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Isn\u2019t that what\u2019s happening with the YouTube channel? This idea of, let\u2019s assume we\u2019re going to make 120k, then we\u2019re going to pay you 80k. But it\u2019s not clear what happens going forward in the channel. It\u2019s not clear. Why does one person get 80k?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:15]\u00a0You\u2019re not communicating about money for a variety of reasons, and each decision you make is one off. It\u2019s totally episodic. This is not the way money works. Money actually effectively works when you make a consistent set of decisions and they build upon each other.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:32]\u00a0So for example, when I hear your YouTube discussion, I go, \u201cThat\u2019s just one of a million one-off decisions and you don\u2019t even know it.\u201d You think you\u2019re doing the right thing, but you\u2019re just doing the exact same thing over and over. Do you see that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:45]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If I started a business with a business partner, do you think I would go, \u201cHey, let\u2019s just assume we\u2019re going to make 120k and then you should get 80k and then we\u2019ll talk about it later.\u201d Even though we have no evidence of ever effectively talking about money. No. The real question though is do you want your finances to be combined or not?[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back after this short break.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:09]\u00a0Now back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:10]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0As far as us combining all this money, I don\u2019t know what benefit we actually have. There are things that I do feel like it would be nice to know. The conversation we had the other day was like, well, here\u2019s the thing. If this was flipped around and you were $90,000 in debt and I was making money, I would want to try to help you get out of that debt. And she was like, \u201cIs that your expectation for me? Should I be helping you pay your debt?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:43]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. To some degree, yeah. I do wish I had a partner who was like, man, I feel bad for the situation you\u2019re in and I want to help you out. But I also don\u2019t want to put that burden on her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s do this. Let\u2019s actually have an actual conversation. You two talk to each other. I\u2019m going to listen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:59]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Being in a relationship with somebody that you really want to spend the rest of your life with, a lot of this, it\u2019s give and take, and I feel like a lot of our relationship has been a lot of take on your side, and I\u2019ve been a lot of give.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:16]\u00a0And I think that for me, there have been some times where I wish it would flip a little bit. Maybe I wasn\u2019t very open and honest about where I was financially and all that, but I don\u2019t know. There\u2019s part of me that hoped that you would ask, and you knew there were times when I was financially stressed out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:36]\u00a0You didn\u2019t have a picture of what everything was going on. But he knew that I was trapped, and just like for Ashley, who I know has a medical condition and all that, but she always knew she had a backup. You were going to be there for her. I would like to figure out together how to really get out of this mess. I have actually been thinking about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:01]\u00a0If this $120,000 comes through, I want to try to knock out that debt right away. And it would be nice to have you open to that and having discussions about that kind of stuff so that we can just move forward.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:15]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not opposed to that at all. And I think I\u2019d be willing to give more help, too, in other ways if we were able to come up with a plan and to see that this was a priority. Because it\u2019s gotten to where it\u2019s at because it hasn\u2019t been a priority. But I see us getting on track for that, and I can help a lot more if I know that you are making it a priority. We both make good money. We both could help get out of this situation and start fresh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How did that feel to have that conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:47]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good, hard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:49]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I also don\u2019t want to be the bad guy. I don\u2019t want to be the one that\u2019s like, don\u2019t do this, don\u2019t do that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:55]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Stop getting Starbucks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s a pretty profound point. I think that in relationships, often there\u2019s one person who knows about money more and the other doesn\u2019t. And unfortunately, it often turns out that in a heterosexual relationship, it\u2019s the woman who\u2019s placed in the position of having to go, why are you doing that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:17]\u00a0This concept of a nag. I [Bleep] hate that word. And I hate that people get placed in the position of doing it. Because when I ask people who are in that dynamic, do you like this dynamic? They both go, no. But it\u2019s deeper often because the other person is avoiding money. Like you avoid money, right, Justin? You don\u2019t talk about it. You don\u2019t effectively manage it. That causes you, Maggie, to be worried about it and then to chase him. And the more you chase him, the more he avoids it. And you\u2019re in this terrible dynamic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:53]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0And it breaks down the trust a lot. This is the common theme throughout all of this, has just been like, I don\u2019t trust you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is he right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:00]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He is?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:02]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I feel like now that I\u2019ve seen some numbers that it wasn\u2019t off base.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I wouldn\u2019t trust him with money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:10]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t want me managing your money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. But the thing is, you\u2019re not saying that. You\u2019re not being honest. Why are you not being honest about this? We\u2019re actually having an honest discussion and you\u2019re constantly trying to pivot to another topic using humor. He\u2019s saying, \u201cYou don\u2019t trust me.\u201d An effective communicator would say, \u201cYou\u2019re right. I don\u2019t trust you.\u201d You have $92,000 in debt, including credit cards, a business loan and a motorcycle loan. Why would I trust you with money? Of course, I want to trust you, but your behavior and financial mismanagement has made me not trust you. How come you\u2019re not saying that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:53]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I\u2019ve said things about all of the different debts. It\u2019s come up multiple times and I\u2019ve brought it up, and I don\u2019t want to be the nag.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think acknowledging how you feel is the most honest thing you can do. And I think you\u2019re actually causing yourself more pain and both of you, by dancing around the topic. If it were me in this relationship\u2013 first, I don\u2019t understand if the two of you want to be married or if the two of you want to be together. Justin, you say you do. I hear that from you. Maggie, it\u2019s very unclear from your end. And now I can understand why. It\u2019s like, hey, I\u2019m on my journey of being financially secure, and I don\u2019t know if my partner wants to or can do it. That\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:45]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But I don\u2019t think you\u2019ve said that candidly to him, and I don\u2019t think you\u2019ve said to yourself, do I want to be with a partner who cannot be on the same journey I\u2019m on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:55]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is your answer to that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:58]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I think the answer\u2019s no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Have you told him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:04]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I have not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:05]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve safely assumed that one.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about it because one of the reasons that Justin has not managed his money is there\u2019s no reason to. I had some overflow expenses that my partner didn\u2019t pay me back for. Okay, I\u2019ll put it on the credit card. I\u2019ll resent it, which I understand that. I would resent it as well, but what\u2019s the consequences? It sounds like you\u2019re actually trying to create a boundary for yourself. I think this is the kind of partner I want. This is what I need. If you can do that, I\u2019d love to be together. But if you can\u2019t, what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:44]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not going to work.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Go ahead and have that conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:46]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s safe to say that we\u2019re at a point where it\u2019s like, if the responsibility and finances doesn\u2019t change, I don\u2019t think we\u2019re going to be able to build a life together that we want.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:56]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s fair. And I totally get it. And I think that a big part of what we\u2019ve been talking about is that this gives us a clean slate to move forward. You know what I mean? I think as part of these conversations that we\u2019ve been having\u2013 you\u2019re telling me, \u201cHey, if you don\u2019t get your [Bleep] together, this is done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:17]\u00a0And that\u2019s fair. I understand why entirely. And I\u2019d like to work on this together. I\u2019ve been wanting to talk about this together for a long time, so cool. I\u2019m good with that. Part of what I\u2019ve been hoping for in all this is actually some real commitment. And I would really like for this to actually be the thing where it\u2019s like, hey, let\u2019s talk about this because this is serious stuff. And then commit to taking care of each other.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:44]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We won\u2019t be able to build what we both want from sailing around the world, all of this stuff, if we don\u2019t develop good habits and open communication surrounding this stuff. And that\u2019s what I\u2019m asking for. Not so that we get to some aloof, whatever, not so we get married. I\u2019m not promising that. I\u2019m saying I think we should be doing this together. We should be doing finances together. And I\u2019ve been really hesitant about that because I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve had the trust that this is going anywhere.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:12]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0And the trust goes two ways. There\u2019s a long period of time too for me where I just thought at some point you\u2019re going to be like cha-ching and cash in your check and peace out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:21]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:22]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There is one topic lurking beneath the surface that I feel, Justin, you\u2019re dancing around, and I want you to have a space to talk about it. And that is the fact that you helped Maggie financially and that she did not pay you back. That is, to me, this gigantic elephant in the room. You have a lot of resentment around that it seems. Can you talk about that with her?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:50]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0The reality is I would never pay somebody this amount of money to do what you are doing. Not even just because you were doing too much or too little. It was just like, I just wouldn\u2019t pay somebody consistently. But for me, the reason that I did it in large part really was because I did want for you to have the opportunity to be able to chase this dream, this thing that you were going for.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:13]\u00a0What would make me feel good is the same courtesy, like, Justin, I know you\u2019re in a financial crisis, and I want to help you, and I love you. Not just, I\u2019ll set up the spreadsheet for you and you figure it out. It\u2019s your problem. It would be nice to have some money going towards it or towards paying off my debt and getting clear of the situation so that we can start together on the same page. I\u2019m going to be crawling out of this mess alone for [Bleep] ever.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:42]\u00a0And for us to get to that start line together is pretty far at this point. Unless we do it together somehow. I get this situation with your best friend. It\u2019s complicated, and I honestly feel for and I want to be as supportive as I can. But I also need for us to be able to get to that start line together so that we can tackle the future together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:08]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0We got to make enough money to get there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:09]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0We got to make money to get there and that\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that was pretty honest. I appreciate that. Do you have a reaction to that? To what he said.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:16]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I would\u2019ve never taken support if I knew it was going to be held over my head. I\u2019ve never been given clear direction on how to clear that debt ever. If it\u2019s like, you want me to pay you back for everything and we can start fresh from there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. You never would\u2019ve taken the support had you known it would be held over your head. Okay. Do you feel that he\u2019s holding it over your head?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:41]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not sure I interpreted the same way.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:44]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s something that I owe and I just haven\u2019t been able to figure out how to repay it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:50]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not money. It is just being in a relationship with somebody and loving them enough that you\u2019re willing to put aside money to take care of them. And that\u2019s very clear in one relationship in our life. And it\u2019s completely not clear in the other one.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:05]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0If I do that for us, if I commit to paying part of your debt off, are you going to feel like we\u2019re doing this together? Is that going to quell some of these feelings that you have? Are you going to feel like I\u2019m more invested?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:19]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, but I feel like it\u2019s forced.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:22]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not forced.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:23]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0And this is the part that gets really tricky. Okay, so since we\u2019ve been dating, I\u2019ve been going to therapy a lot, and one thing I\u2019ve learned is expressing needs, and I\u2019m still learning that. So there\u2019s needs and there\u2019s expectations. And I\u2019ve been trying to really eradicate a lot of these expectations, but one of those things is, it\u2019s like a weird gray area where this is on me because I did give to her and wanted to do that for her. And should I expect the same treatment?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fantastic point. I\u2019m so glad you\u2019re seeing a therapist because this is deep. Can I share some observations? You two both tell yourself certain stories. One of them is that your life is really complex. It\u2019s not that complex. For me, I see two entrepreneurs. You got a couple of things over here and there, and you make a lot of money. All right. The question for me is, what do you both want?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:23]\u00a0That\u2019s it. Because the rest of it we can figure out. If we want to pay the debt off, that could be paid off. The way you talked about getting to zero debt is that\u2019s our starting line. Did you notice that phrase you used, blank page, starting line? You can\u2019t be living in this murky gray area until you pay off $92,000 of debt. It\u2019s a horrible way to live, and that\u2019s why you\u2019ve been feeling this way.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:46]\u00a0And from your perspective, Maggie, it\u2019s like, well, you got yourself into this. You haven\u2019t been paying attention. It\u2019s cost you. I need you to step up and take care of this. And then we can talk about what\u2019s next. So both of you are feeling hurt, you\u2019re feeling separate. And what I\u2019m hearing from you, Justin, is like, hey, I want to connect. I want us to come together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:10]\u00a0If I were to have had the conversation you both had, here\u2019s what I would\u2019ve said. I would\u2019ve said, as Justin, \u201cI really appreciate you pushing me to take charge of my money. I know I haven\u2019t done it for a long time, and it\u2019s cost me. And I\u2019m in this situation because of my decisions. I\u2019m going to make a plan to pay this debt off. I take responsibility for it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:32]\u00a0\u201cBut there are a couple things I need from you. One, I need your encouragement because this is new to me. And you\u2019ve been doing it longer than I have. I might make mistakes. Two, I need you to pay me back for the extra amount that I paid the rent. We can talk about how to make it palatable and spread it out over several months, but that was thousands of dollars. And in order for me to get debt free, I need that money. And I think it\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:59]\u00a0\u201cThree, I would feel much better if like I helped you and I wanted to when you were in financial trouble, if we could talk about that and you could help me. Now, I don\u2019t expect it. I hope that you feel comfortable. And if you say, no, it\u2019s going to hurt, but I\u2019ll accept it. But this is a conversation I want to have.\u201d Those are the three things I would say. Justin, what do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:25]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I wish I could speak that clearly.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It takes time, but the key thing that I did that you did not do was\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:35]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Take the emotion out of it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, it was quite emotional. First, it was appreciating her. I appreciate you pushing me. I haven\u2019t been great taking responsibility. How did that feel when I said that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:47]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It was good. It was acknowledgement that I\u2019ve been doing something.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly. And she has. She\u2019s been on her own journey, and now she\u2019s encouraging you. Maybe she\u2019s not doing it in the exact way you want it. These conversations are hard. That\u2019s why you\u2019re here. But just acknowledging her goes a long way. If Justin were to have said it that way, how would you respond, Maggie?<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:08]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m pretty amenable to all those things.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I could see that Maggie and Justin were trying to have a real sincere conversation about money, and sometimes I like to step in and model how I might have that conversation because I find it really helpful to see how other people do it.\u00a0And in my own personal life, I have had friends offer advice on how to have difficult conversations in my own personal and business life.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:36]\u00a0Now I\u00a0want to\u00a0walk through Justin\u2019s request again this time giving Maggie a chance to respond.\u00a0And remember these two don\u2019t talk about money, so I really want to take it step by step, letting them each build the skills to talk to each other about money. And I have to admit something.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:51]\u00a0As I listen back to this, I found myself cringing at how direct I was, how blunt I was. Sometimes that\u2019s welcome. I think I overdid it here. Truthfully, looking back, I wish I had slowed this down and been a lot gentler with each of them. They are both trying. And so Maggie and Justin, I apologize for being a little clunky with this part of our conversation together.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s start with the easy one.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:17]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie, it has been really awesome to watch you really getting your [Bleep] together. It\u2019s inspiring so much so that I was like, \u201cDamn, she\u2019s getting her [Bleep] together and I better too.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what do you say to that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:27]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m glad I was able to do that. And the only reason I\u2019ve even given pushes is because you said you were open to it. You have said that this is something that you want to tackle.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maggie, why don\u2019t you just take a compliment?<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:39]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Next, Justin said, \u201cI would like to be paid back.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:45]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m willing to do that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fantastic. You see how we\u2019re taking the wins each step? One person\u2019s going on a limb and saying something like, I appreciate you, or here\u2019s what I need here. If you can deliver what your partner needs, tell them. Don\u2019t get lost in your story. No. If he\u2019s saying, I want this, and you can deliver it, do it. Finally, the most contentious part of all, the helping.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:09]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019s got 92,000 minus the back pay. So 80 something thousand dollars he\u2019s going to have to pay off. What is your thoughts?<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:19]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you need me to do?<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:21]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019d be nice to figure out if there\u2019s some way that you can help me take that down a little bit faster, but I\u2019m not expecting you to give. First of all, I don\u2019t expect you to pay me back for that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:31]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:32]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I would just really like for you to want to help me.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let me pause. One suggestion I want to give to both of you is you both lose connection when you talk too much. In a more effective conversation you might say something like this, \u201cI appreciate you asking what I need. I\u2019m going to tell you the truth. What I need is help to pay this debt off faster, but I don\u2019t have an exact number. Would it be okay if I go home, calculate out a plan, and then I come to you and we can look over my proposal together?\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:11]\u00a0If I were you Maggie. I would\u2019ve said, \u201cLook, I want help you. I\u2019m willing to, but right now I\u2019m worried if I just pay money off it\u2019s just good money after bad because you\u2019ve gotten into debt before and I don\u2019t see a plan.\u201d Is that accurate?<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:25]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s super.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:26]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Definitely accurate.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So these are the direct conversations. You\u2019re not being rude. You\u2019re actually being respectful when you just tell, here\u2019s what I\u2019m feeling. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m willing to do. This is what I need.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:38]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Justin, you\u2019re being really honest when you say, \u201cLook, I want some help.\u201d The biggest question for the two of you is, do you truly want to be together? If you do, then there\u2019s lots of give and take that can be done. Justin, you would have to take the responsibility of making a plan, of paying your debt off aggressively. If you wanted to do it, some of the things that I would look to see would be you selling one of your vehicles and putting that money directly into your debt.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:11]\u00a0It would be cutting your subscriptions way down and your guilt-free spending, which is not even accurate at all. You\u2019d be able to put an extra, at least $1,000 a month towards your debt. You could shave off months and months and months of your debt repayment. If you were to make that plan and you were to present it, I actually think it would be one of the most connective things you could possibly do.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:34]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I think so too.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And then Maggie, I think that you would have to be clear with yourself about what is it you\u2019re looking for in a relationship. Because as you start to get into your late 30s and 40s, this is a very common pattern. People who are free spirits in their 20s and then they go, \u201cWait a second. I want to save.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:54]\u00a0And their partner is like, \u201cWait, I feel betrayed. You\u2019re not the person that I initially met.\u201d But can you still be adventurous and be a planful person? Yeah, I totally think you can. You\u2019ll have to decide what is it exactly you\u2019re looking for. Can Justin deliver that? What\u2019s the kind of partner that I want? And if I were you, I would be really honest with him. Like, this is what I\u2019m looking for. And then he does it or he doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:23]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And the two of you decide if this is the right call or not. In my book, I have this concept of a dreamer. A dreamer is someone where success is always one deal away,\u00a0and dreamers don\u2019t like the consistent saving, investing. It feels boring. They even use phrases like, \u201cOh, they have a boring 9-5. And it\u2019s really hard with dreamers if you\u2019re trying to build a stable, growing financial life.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:55]\u00a0Justin, you described yourself as a dreamer. The dreamer has to endure real consequences. I think what\u2019s really happening here is in a roundabout way, Maggie, you\u2019re trying to create some boundaries for yourself. Justin, I think you\u2019re hearing her loud and clear and you\u2019re saying, \u201cOkay, I\u2019m going to try. I need a little help.\u201d So to me, it\u2019s very possible that the two of you do get aligned, but it\u2019ll take a lot of work. What do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:28]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0100%. Honestly, we\u2019ve actually had some really great heartfelt conversations over this last month that we never have had. And it felt good. It didn\u2019t feel good right away, but then when we talked about it and got through it, I believed in us more than ever before.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Money can really bring couples together. Sometimes it\u2019s hard. I think the way you\u2019ve set your life up, you\u2019re running against the wind. Right now your finances are set up separately. Every decision you make is by default made as an independent single person. That\u2019s number one.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:06]\u00a0In most relationships, at a certain point they will combine, and there are benefits to it. The first and biggest benefit is that the two of you start to think as a unit. The second thing is you can accomplish a lot together. You can see that your finances are actually quite healthy on a day-to-day basis if you combine them.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:26]\u00a0But when we split them, Maggie, you\u2019re at 47% fixed cost, which is actually below the typical range. And Justin, you\u2019re at 71, which is way above it. So it looks healthy, but underneath it\u2019s not healthy. The other ways that you\u2019re running against the wind. You have all these business things that you\u2019ve set up, which are overly complex. I would simplify it dramatically.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:52]\u00a0The way I would think about it would be each of our businesses needs to make a certain amount of income for a household. One person commit to making 6,000, the other commits to making 8,000. I\u2019m making the numbers up. Anything above that, you two put into a buffer for when times are slow or one of you sick or whatever. But you need to be able to run a household on this amount of income, and that is your commitment.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:15]\u00a0That\u2019s a really simple way of looking at the world. And you don\u2019t have to run against the wind anymore. You just know every month this is what I need to deliver, and anything above, first, we\u2019ll fill up a nice savings account and eventually we will make our life a little better.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:33]\u00a0Truthfully, Justin, if I\u2019m you, I think that the dreamer tendencies for you have not been serving your relationship. That is what I mean when I say the wind is against you. I hope you get a huge deal. But I\u2019ve seen dreamers who get a huge payday, and what they do is they do the same thing they always do. It\u2019s episodic.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:52]\u00a0They take the money, they pay off all the debt, and now they have a little bit leftover and they\u2019re like, \u201cWhat\u2019s next?\u201d Bigger swing next time? And it\u2019s like, no, you didn\u2019t learn the lesson. You got lucky. You could keep doing this for the rest of your life. So what do you guys want to do? Imagine this ends right now. You go back home. Think about it. What happens if we stop talking right now?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:14]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I think some things will change, but I think we need a little bit more clear plan. We will sit down and make a plan.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You guys are literally sitting down right now with me.\u00a0Do you not want to make a plan right now?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to make a right now.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you want to talk about making a plan?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:29]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s do it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:30]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019d like to figure out how much money we need to save to be able to live on a sailboat<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s not going to happen. I\u2019m telling you right now. You don\u2019t have the money for it. You have $100,000 of debt. You have effectively less than $20,000 of savings between the two of you. There\u2019s no sailboat in the next 10 years.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:47]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Part of making a plan is accepting reality. What\u2019s the next question? What\u2019s a real issue here? Why are we still dancing around it three hours into our conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:56]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to know what your goals are.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:58]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I have an opportunity potentially to have a pretty steady income next year. It\u2019s not at all in the direction of my career though. It\u2019s a total offshoot and it\u2019s a result of all this influencer stuff. Another option is we see what happens with this YouTube thing and let\u2019s just say that we\u2019re lucky and all that comes through and I make $80,000. And I know I can make really good money if I work as a camera operator in Hollywood.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right now your gross income says 12,100, right, per month? So is that the number even at\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:32]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the average.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the average number. That\u2019s fine. We\u2019re just talking averages. At that number, hard for me to tell because I can\u2019t tell your guilt-free spending, but at 12,000, your fixed costs are\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:46]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a071%.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a071%.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:47]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I know I can make more money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can you do it consistently?<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:49]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m good at making money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I love that. I could tell both of you\u2019re good at making money. That\u2019s no question about that. Can you add a layer to your identity that says I\u2019m good at managing money?<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:01]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0I would love to, honestly. This is exhausting. When I started making money, instead of me taking on the responsibility of my own money, I was like, I\u2019m just going to hire an accountant. And I just didn\u2019t deal with the problem myself. I wasn\u2019t responsible myself. So then when things started drying up a bit, then I was just upside down because I relied on other people and I didn\u2019t have the skills.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And it sounds in order for this relationship to grow, you need to build those skills.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:28]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0100%.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s a huge realization.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:31]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So if you were to say, I can consistently make $12,100 a month, I think you could put a lot of money towards your debt, much more than the minimum right now. We\u2019ve also heard Maggie say she agrees with the back pay, so that\u2019s going to contribute as well. Right there, that solves a lot of challenges. How you do it, that\u2019s up to you. It seems like you know your way around earning money. So it\u2019s not going to be that big of a problem. Everybody agree?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:05]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What else do you need for a plan?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:08]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0The reason we\u2019re doing this now is because we\u2019re young. So I can say I want to aggressively do this. I want to look at my numbers and say that I want to hit more. I want to make 10 to 12,000 a month next year.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:22]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0And that means saying no to a lot of things. I\u2019d like to max up my Roth IRA for this year and by next year have my 401K set up and need to figure out what I could max that out at. But I think I want to at least be putting 1,500 a month towards investments.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Let\u2019s look. You have about 2,000 bucks right now invested, right, ballpark?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:44]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to say 18,000 a year for\u2013 how many years do you want this to grow?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:49]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a015.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a015. So conservatively, if we\u2019re looking at this, you\u2019ll have $489,000. How does that strike you?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:57]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to double that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can double it in a couple of ways. One, you can invest more, which I think you could. If you were to get really serious about investing, then you could. And if the two of you were to really get serious about money, with your incomes, you could invest a lot of money. I\u2019m talking like 50,000-plus per year.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:20]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0I would like to do that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019ve heard the couples on my show, right?<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:22]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But you\u2019re like, oh, boo hoo. Another wealthy couple, boo hoo. And they have millions of dollars. How\u2019d you do it? Oh, we just focused on our income and then automatically invested a ton of money every single month, and just let it grow. I\u2019m just going to say 22,000 here just for easy math.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:38]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That takes you to 597. Still not enough. But guess what? If you let it sit there for 20 years, you\u2019re at 972,000. Time. Time is what matters. There\u2019s lots of things you could do. Again, if it\u2019s the two of you and you are like, we want to do it, you could invest a lot and still travel and still take big swings.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:58]\u00a0What do you think? What are the steps in order to get there? The first step for me is that the two of you decide we want to do this together. It means that, hey, we\u2019re committed. Here\u2019s what the terms of our relationship are. Just like the terms of a business agreement. Be open about it. Write it down. Nothing wrong with that. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s weird. I think it\u2019s cool. You got a business of the two of you together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:19]\u00a0So that\u2019s one. Two is you got to set your finances up so that the wind is at your back. So it makes it easy. Automatically paying off debt every month should be automatic. Automatically saving and investing should be automatic. Just get out of the habit of this manual stuff. It\u2019s one of the reasons you\u2019re stuck.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:35]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Three, regular monitoring and communication. Monitoring for both of you. Figure out a way to do it. If the spreadsheet\u2019s not what you want, you want to use a different doc, use a different doc. But communication means every month we\u2019re sitting and talking about money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:50]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0As a relationship thing, we do these board meetings.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that you have a board meeting. That\u2019s awesome. And for me, in a board meeting in a relationship, money is one key part of it. It\u2019s like, what\u2019s the state of our relationship? Are we good? Where are we going to travel to? You said this thing. It made me a little uncomfortable. But also let\u2019s talk about our money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:09]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Beautiful.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:10]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s been missing, but I think it something we could add to it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u00a0want to\u00a0thank Maggie and Justin for sharing their story. It takes a lot of courage to talk about relationship and money issues in front of so many people.<\/p>\n<p>[01:18:21]\u00a0I noticed some themes in our conversations. Both of them have lots of stories about who they are, but those stories aren\u2019t necessarily serving them anymore.\u00a0For example, they both define themselves by their extreme independence. But deep down, they\u2019re both yearning to feel more connected to each other. They both have past histories with money, especially Justin, with his dad, and those affect them even today. Most of all, they don\u2019t have a shared vision for a\u00a0Rich Life. In our conversation, there was lots of talking about random expenses, resentment about paid bills, and walking on eggshells about what each of them wants.<\/p>\n<p>[01:19:03]\u00a0But I have to say that watching them have these conversations, even with my clunky interjections, was a true joy. Let\u2019s check in and watch their follow-up videos. Up first, let\u2019s hear from Justin.<\/p>\n<p>[01:19:15]\u00a0<strong>Justin:<\/strong>\u00a0My biggest surprise from our conversation, I think, was how divided we really were. We haven\u2019t been really working towards anything together. And definitely part of what we uncovered it is just the truth and got to talk about things. And it has helped bring up a lot of stuff about our relationship and the power that we have together as a couple.<\/p>\n<p>[01:19:43]\u00a0Together we make a lot of money and we are much more powerful as a couple. And I think that even if you\u2019re not married, still trying to figure out a way to combine some type of finance together makes you much more powerful as a team.<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:01]\u00a0My biggest changes so far are I\u2019ve canceled a lot of subscriptions, and I\u2019ve been really focused on like, whoa, okay. There are things in my finances that I don\u2019t even know where this money\u2019s going. I had a lot of things on auto pay that were on my credit cards, which have been stacking up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:19]\u00a0So I took all that stuff off of auto pay and I\u2019m not adding more debt, which I think is really important. And I think overall Maggie and I have been able to start to have better conversations about making decisions. Like just today, we started talking about a car, and I feel like we\u2019re way more on the same page about that. And it\u2019s not a separate, this is for me, this is for you situation. It\u2019s a, hey, how can we do this together? And I feel like that\u2019s a big win.<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now let\u2019s hear from Maggie\u2019s follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:20:51]\u00a0<strong>Maggie:<\/strong>\u00a0One of my biggest takeaways is that together our finances look really good. We can be really successful, but we\u2019re not there. There isn\u2019t trust there, and that\u2019s something that takes time building up and effort. So we have a lot of work ahead of us to get on the same page, to trust each other, and to start planning things financially together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:21:13]\u00a0So in order for us to do that, we really need to put the work in and start combining finances so that we can be as successful as we want to be and operating as a unit versus on these two separate planes with finances.<\/p>\n<p>[01:21:30]\u00a0It\u2019s only been a couple days since our conversation, so we haven\u2019t had time to really map out the game plan, but I have high hopes that we\u2019re going to come up with a plan where we can handle our combined finances together and make decisions together moving forward.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\ufeff &nbsp; Justin, 38, and Maggie, 34, join the show to unpack a growing tension in their relationship\u2014her hesitation to combine finances. Maggie spent her twenties traveling the world and is now laser-focused on building her future, while Justin shares her love for travel but envisions a future together. With Maggie making life plans that [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118847","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118847","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118847"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118847\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118847"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118847"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}