{"id":118865,"date":"2024-10-01T12:42:19","date_gmt":"2024-10-01T16:42:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118865"},"modified":"2026-02-18T15:52:14","modified_gmt":"2026-02-18T19:52:14","slug":"176-jason-megan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/176-jason-megan\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 176. \u201cI\u2019m 8 mos pregnant. He only wants to talk about how much the baby will cost\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cI\u2019m 8 mos pregnant &amp; all he talks about is the cost\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Kg6zPIBN4us\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/1UPY24nz6q6kPE6uVgJy5b?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Jason is a 40-year-old COO. Megan is a 34-year-old flight attendant. They have more than $3 million in assets, but they\u2019re both in credit card debt and their finances are extremely murky. To top it all off, Megan is 8 months pregnant\u2014and they don\u2019t have a plan to get their finances in order.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Wildgrain | Get $30 off the first box \u2013 PLUS free Croissants in every box at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/wildgrain.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/wildgrain.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Trustworthy | Save 10% on an upgrade to keep your family\u2019s information safely stored at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trustworthy.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/trustworthy.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2013 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Superhuman | Get a free month of lightning fast email at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/try.sprh.mn\/ramitsethi\">https:\/\/try.sprh.mn\/ramitsethi<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/csp\">Download the Conscious Spending Plan<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/moneyforcouples\">Pre-order my upcoming book: Money for Couples<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Any time I spend money, it\u2019s all guilt full. There\u2019s never a moment that I think, I deserve this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Today meet Jason and Megan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:07]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m trying to keep up with him and with the lifestyle, but I also know that I can\u2019t actually afford that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:13]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0We should be able to have some agreements on how this works.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019s a 40-year-old COO.\u00a0She\u2019s a 34-year-old flight attendant. And their finances have gotten very sloppy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:23]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0We have not done an excellent job of executing the postpay cut plans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:28]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I actually afford this? No. But am I still going to do it? Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But what\u2019s really stressing them out,\u00a0Megan is eight months pregnant.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:35]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The maternity rules for work it was like, I\u2019ll take three months off. And then it was like, I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0take six. Oh, the company gives me 12. Oh, now it\u2019s 15.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:43]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0How much is the baby going to cost? I would like to have a doula at our birth. Where is that money coming from?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can they make the changes to their finances and their relationship to work together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:53]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0With baby coming, how do we figure out how much work is needed from each of us to support the fam?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And do you have a plan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:59]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I just don\u2019t go to work. That\u2019s the plan<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All\u00a0right. Let\u2019s take a look at the CSP. What?\u00a0Okay. Wow. $3 million in assets, but of that\u00a0$3,073,000,\u00a0$3,053,000\u00a0is from partner one. Partner two has $20,000 in assets. Hugely unbalanced. Okay. It can work. It\u2019s just something to note. Savings at 27k\u2013 pretty low relative to the other numbers.\u00a0And then debt at 778,000, which is fine with all the rest of the stuff. So a total net worth of $3.1 million. Okay. At age of 34 and 40,\u00a0extremely impressive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:45]\u00a0But odd.\u00a0Why is there only 27k in savings when you have $3 million in assets?\u00a0That\u2019s odd. Just to clarify,\u00a0when you have $3 million in assets, those assets cost money. So if this is real estate, which I assume it is, you get one repair,\u00a0that\u2019s $20,000. So people who have a lot of assets should have a lot of liquid money to be able to maintain those assets.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:13]\u00a0This is something that you have to remember as you start to get more money and you start to buy more things. I\u2019m talking about assets. You have to remember those assets aren\u2019t free. They take maintenance.\u00a0They take staff.\u00a0They take all kinds of stuff. So it\u2019s a bit odd,\u00a0but we\u2019ll figure that out. Wow. Okay. Income is 21,000 a month gross,\u00a0but of that 17,000 comes from one partner who I assume is the person writing the application. Debt. What the hell? Debt payments\u00a0is\u00a0at 1,200 bucks?\u00a0Why?\u00a0Why do you have debt? Why do you have credit card debt and you have 3 million bucks? It makes no sense. It makes zero sense.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:48]\u00a0Okay.\u00a0I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0give a fresh perspective on the CSP. First off is they\u2019re not really saving and investing very much at all. On the other hand,\u00a0this couple may have very consciously decided, hey, we\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0be asset rich. We\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0invest or buy a lot of assets,\u00a0and we love our guilt-free life. We love traveling or buying cool stuff, eating out five times a week, whatever. And maybe that\u2019s what they decided to do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:18]\u00a0It\u2019s okay.\u00a0If you have $3 million in assets, you can make certain decisions that\u00a0you would not make if you\u2019re making $50,000 a year with basically no net worth. So I have a lot of questions to ask primarily about, number one, what are all these assets? Number two, why do you have such low savings relative to the other numbers? And three, where\u2019s all this guilt-free spending going? I just\u00a0want to\u00a0know.\u00a0Looking forward to speaking to them.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:44]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0We were in the midst of discussions about what\u2019s going to happen when baby comes from a lifestyle change, income change, and expense change. So we were actively talking about that together. I was asking Megan, what\u2019s your plan for when baby comes? What does your employer offer? How is income going to change? Because I wanted to plan ahead and know what, if anything, I need to do about it. So we started there and had to ask that lots and lots of times.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:20]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I couldn\u2019t get a straight answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:24]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0He didn\u2019t like my answers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What were those answers, Megan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:28]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0They were, well, I can take this much. And then I kept learning more of how much, so I didn\u2019t have a concise answer originally. And then I learned what the maximum benefit is and what the maximum amount of time I can take is, and that\u2019s where I emotionally landed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:50]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The way I would describe it is I learned about her plan through overhearing her explain her plan to her friends. So originally it was, I will take the first three months off, basically through winter, and then the next friend, it was, yeah, probably about six months I\u2019ll take off and then I\u2019ll go back to work to some degree. Then the next one, it was a year, and then the last was 15 months.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:17]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0And so my eyes just got bigger, bigger, bigger.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And when you say they got bigger, why? What\u2019s the implication?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:23]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The longer there\u2019s a lack or low income is a larger problem that I\u2019ll need to solve or a bigger dollar amount I need to cover.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meaning her income will cease and you\u2019re going to have to be the sole income earner. And that becomes stressful.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:48]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0If she just said, I want to have baby and not go back to work, cool. Let me work on that and I\u2019ll see how possible that is, and I\u2019ll come back to her with the impacts. Okay. Just so you understand, that means no more of this, no more of this, no more of this. This changes. I need a new job, whatever it is.\u00a0And let\u2019s go through the impacts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:07]\u00a0And then she\u2019ll come back and say, well, okay, maybe I could do this right, and then I\u2019ll have another scenario. But what\u2019s been difficult is without a plan and then time to plan, it becomes impossible to solve that. And then that makes it impossible to come up with changes or get ahead. So here we are at, what\u2019s it due? Seven weeks or something?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:35]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Baby\u2019s coming out in seven weeks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to hear from you, Megan. Tell me about your perspective on these discussions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:42]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I did tell Jason that I wanted to have a baby ages ago, and in the last five years I\u2019ve been financially preparing for that. And once I learned the finer rules and what I could actually do is when it became more of a conversation and more of like a, I don\u2019t actually think I need to\u2013 my income doesn\u2019t really impact our lives very much because we\u2019ve focused on putting more money to my 401k and saving for my lonely future rather than our together future.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what if Jason asked you like, how long do you want to be home? It seems like from his perspective, he\u2019s not getting a straight answer. Is that accurate, or do you see it differently?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:37]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say initially, yes, it\u2019s accurate, but my answer of, \u201cI will go back by baby\u2019s first birthday\u201d has been very steady for the last six months.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. So your answer is, \u201cone year I want to stay home, and then I\u2019m back to work.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:53]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you had to do an educated guess right now, what capacity would you go back at after a baby\u2019s first birthday?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:02]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I would go back at 50 to 55 hours a month. Whereas 120 is full-time that we\u2019ve calculated in the past.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Does that work, Jason?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:15]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s very doable. It\u2019s not going to like screw anything up, but it does have impact in stuff you plan for ahead of time. So what you\u2019re going to do, or what additional income do you need to come up with, or what do you need to turn off for a time?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you\u2019re saying, hey, if she goes back at 50%, probably we can\u2019t afford to do all the things if she was working 100%, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:39]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Fact, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fine. Do we all agree on that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:41]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t agree with that because we\u2019re adding this new factor of a baby in, so can we go back to doing all the things? We\u2019ve already added a whole other variable. So whether that\u2019s childcare costs, if I\u2019m working at 100% time, where is this baby going to be? Do I want to be away from this baby? I don\u2019t want to be away from this baby for 100% of what I have been doing in the past.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:05]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. But we also have some ideas like, what amount can you work without introducing childcare cost? And how can we work that out?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you guys find that you talk about certain things and spin a lot, but don\u2019t make decisions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:22]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow, that\u2019s shocking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:24]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Whoa, Ramit. Whoa.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What I asked is, can we all agree that if one of you is not working at 100%, then you can\u2019t spend the same as if that person was working at 100%. Seems like pretty basic math to me. If one of you is not making as much money as you used to, you can\u2019t spend as much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:43]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Facts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:43]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree with that statement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So let\u2019s talk about how we got to this position. I can already tell, Jason, you\u2019re the optimizer. You love the numbers. And Megan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:57]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve traditionally been very good at it. I can set a number for what full-time is like, how can I swing this and how can I flex in my savings?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:07]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I would rephrase that to be, Megan will run the numbers to figure out how little she can work to get everything she wants.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, that\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:14]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0True. Okay. I agree with that. Actually, you\u2019re right. You\u2019re right, Jason.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meaning you try to be as efficient as possible. You want to work as little as possible and get the maximum financial benefit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:24]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fine. Nothing wrong with that. Okay. That\u2019s good to know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:28]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0With baby coming, lots of things are different. And some of these decisions, some are happening. We don\u2019t have a choice. They\u2019re going to come. But what we really want to understand is how do we better plan and then execute what comes next.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:49]\u00a0Primarily with income is a big one. How much does Megan need to work? And then do I need to change and when? And then what needs to change in lifestyle and expenses? In the past we haven\u2019t had to be so diligent because I had much higher income. With adjustment to lower income, we did have to make many, many adjustments and say, what do we cut out? How do we make this work? And I feel like this is the next step of that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What adjustments did you make when your income went down?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:22]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0So Megan took a side job and we started renting rooms in our house to get additional income. And then we also cut back on a bunch of spending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:38]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Travel way fewer trips. We cut back on some expensive subscriptions. We cut back on attending live sports and events. Yeah. What else, Megs?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:56]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we only really cut out two subscriptions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What subscriptions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:02]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0We gave up one theater, and we gave up symphony.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. How much are those, out of curiosity?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:12]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Each of those is in the probably 1,000 to 2,000 bucks a year. We had season hockey tickets.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:21]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh yeah. I didn\u2019t like that one.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:23]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Season hockey tickets. That\u2019s expensive. That was 17,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:25]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0That was really expensive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a017 how much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a017,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0$17,000 for hockey tickets.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:32]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Ramit, I agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, wait, wait. Where? Wait, wait. No, no, no, no, no. I\u2019m not judging. I just don\u2019t know anything about this. $17,000 for two seats? What are we talking about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:44]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Two seats, 44 games. 200 something bucks per seat, per game.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is this in a box?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:52]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Holy [Bleep]. Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:54]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s pretty standard here. Almost the entire arena goes for that much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you say $17,000 per season?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:03]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Man, I had no idea. I would\u2019ve been wildly off. Every single person who\u2019s listening, including my friends who\u2013 I have friends who are baseball agents and stuff. They\u2019re like, this guy is so\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0dumb. Wow. I appreciate it. On this show, I get to learn things I would\u2019ve had no idea about. That\u2019s amazing. All right. So you cut back on those things. That\u2019s cool. And was it difficult for you to have these discussions and to make the decision?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:31]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The stuff with the house is difficult because I want to get more income there and Megan\u2019s like, get everybody out of here. This is my space.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What about for you, Megan? Was it difficult to make those decisions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:42]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I didn\u2019t want hockey that badly. Hockey\u2019s lame.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you took a pay cut. What was the salary before and the current salary?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:52]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The before was depending on performance for the year, was 350 to 450, and after it went down to 185.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. That\u2019s a significant drop. What happened there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:08]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0So left a job where people turned evil and went to a place where people were good, but it was from a larger publicly traded company to a startup.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Was the evil company a whole life insurance company, out of curiosity?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:24]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Not that evil.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Got it. So that\u2019s a big drop. Makes sense. And then we heard that, Megan, you had been cutting back on time. Just give me a sense of the scale. If you\u2019re working 100% time, what are you making versus 50% time?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:45]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Four, 5k down to 2k a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Got it. The scale is like you cut your pay by 30,000 or 40,000. Meanwhile we\u2019re over here talking about you cut your pay by 300,000 or 200,000, something like that. Okay. All right. So big changes. Got it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jason wants certainty. He\u2019s the planner.\u00a0And as the person who\u2019s the money guy in the relationship, he wants to know concrete numbers. How much are you\u00a0going to\u00a0work? How much money are you\u00a0going to\u00a0make? Just\u00a0give me\u00a0the numbers,\u00a0and I\u2019ll plug it in the model. He chases Megan for the answers. Megan avoids the answers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:22]\u00a0As you can see, they\u2019ve entered into the chaser-avoider dynamic. What\u2019s interesting is how cagey Megan is. Most avoiders just openly avoid conversations about money or they use a variety of techniques,\u00a0for example, getting mad and saying things like, can\u2019t we go a single day without talking about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:41]\u00a0Megan does this trickle truth thing by saying, I\u00a0want to\u00a0stay home for five months, no six months, no 15\u00a0months. Now, understandably, no first time parent knows exactly what having a baby\u2019s\u00a0going to\u00a0look like, but importantly, you have to be able to make at least some assumptions, which you can always change later. Am I\u00a0going to\u00a0stay home for one month or two years?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:05]\u00a0We need to be able to put something down on paper and then we can change it if needed.\u00a0That is how you make a plan. So from my initial conversation, it looks like Jason just wants a number and Megan doesn\u2019t want to give it, but I suspect it\u2019s more complicated, especially when Megan reveals she\u2019s talking about a few thousand dollars difference.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:25]\u00a0Welcome back. Let\u2019s keep\u00a0going.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:27]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The first time Megan and I had a really good productive financial conversation was prepping to buy the house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fantastic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:37]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Because we wanted very different things in a house. I wanted it to have downside protection and cash flow and do all these different things, and she\u2019s like, I want a house for the family. And so we had a really good discussion of what we each wanted, and then we looked for what was out there that had everything we wanted, and then we ran all the numbers, made sure we had the down payment, made sure we could have a backup plan that, hey, if something really did change, this mortgage is covered no matter what.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0[Bleep], yes. Hey, for everybody listening, all you real estate denialist freaks, who always argue with my basic premise that all I want you to do is run the numbers on the biggest purchase of your life, I hope you\u2019re listening to this couple. You don\u2019t need to earn $600,000 a year. All you got to do is simply run the numbers. Okay. Good job. I\u2019m very proud of you both. So here you are. It\u2019s interesting to me. You already went through a $250,000-plus pay cut. Aren\u2019t we only talking about losing a few thousand bucks now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:45]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Here\u2019s the thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:47]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0We have not done an excellent job of executing the postpay cut plans. There\u2019s been several something happens over the past few years that made things difficult.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:03]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Megan got injured and was out of work for majority of the year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:09]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I was hit and run and somebody flipped my truck, so then I was injured and had no vehicle to commute in and had to do that. I don\u2019t know. Other little things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:22]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve had a series of floods in our condo.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:24]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Our place has flooded three times and insurance only covered one time. So the second two were self-insured.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:32]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re basically saying, look, when we made over half a million dollars a year, if things came our way, we could deal with it. We had plenty of cashflow. At this time, it\u2019s getting tighter and tighter. We still have cashflow, but it\u2019s getting a little stricter. We\u2019re not particularly great at following that plan, but we\u2019re concerned. We can\u2019t be thinking the same way as when we were making multiples of our income. We have to be tighter. Right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:00]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. We have to be tighter. And when these things happen, we will need to do something, and sometimes those things go on credit cards, and then we have to fight the credit card machines.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:09]\u00a0Megan, what is your central challenge? It sounds like you have a vision. You want to stay home for a year. You want to go back at 50% time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:22]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0My challenge is not living in my realm. I\u2019ve had enough windfalls where I can wipe out all my credit card debt and it\u2019s fine, and then they just fill back up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you have credit card debt right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:41]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, I have $13,000. And I just looked at all of my other money sources and I\u2019m like, can I just take all this and pay it off? Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:55]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a great question because maybe Bitcoin\u2019s going to come up for me and maybe I\u2019m going to be a whale.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Maybe.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:03]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I do think that\u2019s an interesting question to ask you, Ramit, is like, in those situations where you can redirect, would you redirect?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:16]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Or would you only redirect if you have confidence that you know you\u2019re not going to get back in there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait a minute. I\u2019m confused here. Do you two combine your incomes?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:27]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No, we live separately financially.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:31]\u00a0<strong>Heather:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:31]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0This is the first time he ever let me know how much money he makes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:35]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s not true. We ran all the numbers together for the house, so way back in 2019, 2020.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:43]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s acceptable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re all married and having a kid, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:47]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re not married. He\u2019s my lover of eight years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Been together. Okay. That\u2019s good. Why are your finances separate, out of curiosity? I guess because you\u2019re not married?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:59]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0No, haven\u2019t had a need or reason to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And you own a house together or is it separate?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:05]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0His name\u2019s on it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:06]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, my name\u2019s on it. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Do you make payments?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:09]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel entitled to it sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Do you pay for it, Megan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:14]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Emotionally.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Notice these peculiar responses that Megan keeps giving me. Now,\u00a0we need to acknowledge that Megan probably grew up with some unusual messages about money,\u00a0and she\u2019s about to have a baby,\u00a0and they\u2019re talking to me for the first time about this intimate topic. So I don\u2019t mind people being nervous, but I think it goes much deeper than that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:33]\u00a0Megan is an avoider, and avoiders have a series of conscious and unconscious techniques they employ when conversations make them uncomfortable, and you\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0hear lots of them through today\u2019s discussion. Now,\u00a0before we hear Megan\u2019s answer, I need a quick favor from you. Hit that Subscribe button because it really helps my team and me grow this\u00a0podcast.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. How about financially?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:57]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Financially, yes. Traditionally, yes. I just direct deposit money into Jason\u2019s account from my paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:04]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0All the expenses come basically, and I pay for it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why is your financial situation more confusing than mine? It doesn\u2019t make any sense. I have a very complex financial situation, but I have simplified it a lot. Okay, let me make sure I understand the relationship status. So unmarried, own a house that\u2019s in your name, Jason, and having a child. Any plans to get married or combine finances? It\u2019s fine either way. I\u2019m just asking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:38]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:40]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0What, if any, benefits there are to combining something? I guess I have a bit of an expectation that there\u2019s probably going to be a need with baby to have Megan have access to funds. Typically though, she\u2019ll just take a card of mine. We don\u2019t actually go change accounts and stuff. It\u2019s just like, hey, take this card.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0In general, you can definitely go through life without combining your finances or getting married. Of course, I would never sit here and tell you you have to get married or you have to combine. I do think that you will find that over time, especially with a little one, your lives will structurally be set up to be individualistic and even diverge.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:28]\u00a0And it really helps if you were to have your finances combined because it actually helps you make these joint decisions. Like right now, there\u2019s a lot of negotiating and going back and forth, and part of the basis, and the part of the reason for that is that you\u2019re not actually operating as a unit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:47]\u00a0It\u2019s like, what can I get away with and like, hey, I need clarity on your number so I can plug it into my calculator. It\u2019s not together. One of the easiest ways to change that is just to put your money together. Now, it becomes very tricky because putting your money together without being married has all kinds of implications and co-mingling. I get all that. Plus the property. There\u2019s all kinds of stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:09]\u00a0The simplest thing, not saying you have to do it, is simply get married, combine your finances. That is the simplest thing. But I\u2019m all for people having alternative perspectives and alternative views. That doesn\u2019t bother me at all. We can make it work.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:24]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I think the simplest is, here\u2019s a card to an account that has cash in it. Spend what you need.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It could be that basically the envelope system, which is like, we agree that every month there\u2019s X dollars in the account relating to these categories, yourself, your personal care, perhaps baby, perhaps whatever responsibilities you focus on. I\u2019m focusing on these things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:48]\u00a0Yeah, you could make that work. No problem. How do you deal with things like, say, eating out or the hockey tickets for that matter? Who decided on that one? Because clearly one person wants them and the other\u2019s not as into it. How do you decide on those kinds of things?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:04]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0If it\u2019s something small, usually we will either just do it or she\u2019ll ask her or whatever. Hey, what about this? And then it\u2019s usually like, yep, fine, whatever. Let\u2019s just do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What about the big things like the hockey?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:17]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Then we talk about it and try to figure it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:21]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess like with my most recent car, it was a discussion. Where\u2019s the money coming from? How are you going to pay for it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:28]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0How it usually goes. Megan, what do you want? I want this. How much does that cost? I don\u2019t know. Great. Let\u2019s figure it out. We figure that costs this much. That means this many dollars per month. Wow, that\u2019s way too much. Cool. I think that this much would be doable, and you can get something like this for that cost.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And Megan, what is with the, \u201cI don\u2019t know\u201d response?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:50]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0In my mind, I just think it\u2019s always going to work out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:54]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m ever going to be homeless, carless, or any dire strait situation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:01]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0One thing that Megan has available to her is a fully scalable income mechanism with these multiple roles. It\u2019s like you can work more nearly infinitely, and if you want to change your income and buy a car in the next three months, you can just out and get overtime.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:24]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve also planned this. I see enough people who I work with who are divorced, and by the time they raise their kids, they go their separate ways after 20 years and they\u2019re the women who stayed home with the kids, flew minimally, and now they have no money for retirement. So I\u2019ve always known that. I\u2019ve expressed those concerns with Jason in the past and him and I were always on the same page of protect my future self. So I\u2019ve always been really grateful for that, but also it\u2019s been part of the plan to make sure that future self is taken care of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:02]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0That was probably the first financial discussion we had, was very early on. It was, what are your finances? And we had that chat. And do you have a match? Are you using it? And we had that chat early on. And so I encouraged her to max everything. I was like, don\u2019t worry about stuff that we need to pay for. I\u2019ll take care of all that. And she did an excellent, excellent job at that.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The way you set up your finances will affect the rest of your lives. In my opinion, the way they\u2019re talking about their accounts, where Jason basically gives her an allowance without combining income, is going to set them up very poorly going forward. Who wants to have to ask their partner for an allowance,\u00a0and who wants to have that conversation 300 times a month for groceries and diapers and a car and Starbucks?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:52]\u00a0Jason has taken on the role of the money guy in this relationship, and he\u2019s even continuing it with his idea of how to set their accounts up.\u00a0And yet he\u2019s frustrated he can\u2019t get a straight answer out of Megan. He doesn\u2019t quite see that when you don\u2019t both have skin in the game, it\u2019s very hard to recalibrate that relationship.\u00a0This is why I insist both partners participate in a monthly money meeting. Sure, one might take the lead on investments, but both of you should be actively involved in the finances.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:25]\u00a0We\u2019ll open up their conscious spending plan after this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s move on to the CSP. Megan, can you read the word in bold and then the combined number next to it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:40]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Assets, $3,073,000. Investments, $859,095. Savings, $27,455. Debt, 778,835.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Total net worth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:03]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0$3,180,715.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, great. And I want to point out that Jason has a net worth of 3 million independently, and Megan, your net worth is $172,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:15]\u00a0<strong>Heather:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, got it. How do you all feel about those numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:23]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Not good enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Not good enough. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:24]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Anxious.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, wow. Why? Why is it so negative in here right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:32]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0For me, the cash flow still feels really tight.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:39]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0It just feels unsure, unstable, anxiety provoking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask a couple of questions because I want to understand these numbers. So it says that you have $3 million of assets. Can you break that down for me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:56]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. We have a condo. We have a house, cars and then business. Condo\u2019s worth 400-ish, something like that. House\u2019s a million-ish.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:13]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Business is million-ish.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Cars? What the\u00a0[Bleep]? How much are these cars worth?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:20]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The most expensive one is like 60, 70. Most are in the 20-25, something like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How many cars are we talking about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:29]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s seven, including Megan\u2019s?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This can\u2019t be real. You have seven cars?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:34]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Eight, with Megan\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is this a joke?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:37]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No. I wish it was, Ramit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why am I here? Hold on. Do you know I have a master\u2019s degree and I\u2019m here talking to a couple that\u2019s worried about cash flow and they have eight goddamn cars. What the\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0is going on here? Why do you have so many cars?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:53]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I used to own and operate an automotive business. So I had cars and tools and stuff for that. And then with work changing and stuff, I put it into sleep mode, but have not fully wound it down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh wow. So when you said we haven\u2019t really cut our spending commensurate with our income going down by $300,000, you were referring to the eight cars. All right. We\u2019ll get back to that. Investments are what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:30]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I have 7k in crypto.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What else? Most of it is index funds. Please tell me, God.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:39]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, mostly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. And then savings is whatever. What\u2019s the debt? Break that down for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:45]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Debt are, yeah, the two mortgages. And then on my side there\u2019s 26k on the credit card right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s go to income real quick. Jason, what\u2019s the combined income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:00]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0101,408.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so that\u2019s $256,000 a year. Did you all know that that\u2019s how much you make?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:07]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Definetly, yes. I knew that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:09]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I didn\u2019t know. For me, I told you I didn\u2019t know how much he made till recently.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0In your case, you have a slight justification because you\u2019re not married, I guess. But if I was having a kid with somebody, married or not, you know I would know their finances. I would\u2019ve done a triple drill down into their investments. I would\u2019ve been like, you invest in this dog\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0fund? They have a 1.5% front-end load. What the\u00a0[Bleep]? But that\u2019s just me. We all look for different things in our partners. At $256,000 a year, how is it that you all have $40,000 of credit card debt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:52]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Floods, wrecked car, all that stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so accidents. That\u2019s one thing. What else? Megan, why do you have credit card debt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:01]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I carry too much. I don\u2019t live within what I make.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:08]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Also, you are working less than you were, but not changing expense habits.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:12]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:13]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:14]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Haven\u2019t changed them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:14]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So to Megan, the costs and things stay the same, but the variable work went down. So my encouraging is variable work, get it back up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I think the larger problem is that you are the one having to tell her to get her income up. That\u2019s really the problem. Why is Megan not in charge of her own independent finances if the two of you are not married?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:48]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I argue I am, but I also feel in the moments where there\u2019s a question of who should pay for what, if Jason doesn\u2019t have a card for me to use for a household expense, or if there\u2019s no room on a credit card, I will just cover it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If that is what\u2019s getting you in part into this credit card debt, that\u2019s just sloppy financial management. Because a couple making $256,000 a year should not have the issue of there\u2019s no room on a card. That\u2019s crazy. That\u2019s insane. If you\u2019re going to live independently, not married, that\u2019s totally fine. However, you got to have a really defined set of rules, like an SOP. It would be like a McDonald\u2019s franchise.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:39]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Sounds perfect.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let me explain what an SOP is. An SOP is a standard operating procedure. It is a manual for how to do a task. McDonald\u2019s employees have tons of SOPs, which is how they can hire someone who walked off the street and have them making fries very quickly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:57]\u00a0Same for airline pilots who religiously use their checklist. I [Bleep] love SOPs. I have an\u00a0SOP for when I rebalance my investments. I have an SOP for how to handle unexpected income. My wife and I have an SOP for who loads the dishwasher and who empties it and when. Oh, no,\u00a0Ramit. That\u2019s so unromantic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:14]\u00a0Things should just happen. What are you talking about? Think of the things you do repetitively. It could be who mows the lawn or goes to the gym. It could even be when you talk about money, which as we both know is never,\u00a0which is why I shared my exact monthly money meeting agenda in my new book,\u00a0Money for Couples,\u00a0available for pre-order now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:36]\u00a0The point is you can systematize and schedule the important things to you, which leaves you abundant free time to use guilt-free for the things you love. Is anybody seeing the similarity between the conscious spending plan and creating SOPs for your life? Am I the only one who\u2019s becoming enraged and starting to sweat while sitting in front of a camera alone at the fact that more people don\u2019t use\u00a0SOPs? What the hell is wrong with me? Let\u2019s get back to this episode.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I love a good SOP in the household. SOP for who empties the dishwasher. What time? SOP who\u2019s doing the dishes, the laundry. Write it down. Don\u2019t leave it up to romance and certainly not like, oh, let\u2019s talk about it. Because the last thing you want to do is like, babe, can you give me money for formula 409?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:19]\u00a0No, just SOP it, make an agreement, and then if you need to revisit it, revisit every six months. What concerns me is the fact that you\u2019re all okay with having credit card debt with a baby on the way.\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0about to get real.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:36]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if I\u2019d say okay with it. The biggest chunks are what the unexpected stuff that wasn\u2019t budget. We got rid of all the student loan debt. That was a big one. Then we got rid of all the credit card, and then it\u2019s like the next thing. But I look at it as 100% income related because it\u2019s hard to go down and then stay down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re going to have to change the way that you both interact with money and probably create a new framework for how you deal with your finances individually and together. This doesn\u2019t make any sense to me. With the income, if you guys were making 100k, okay. I would be like, we got to slash and burn.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:19]\u00a0But you\u2019re actually making way more than that. So there\u2019s something going on here, and I can already see some of it. Let\u2019s look at the fixed costs. Fixed costs are at 62%. That\u2019s pretty good. You\u2019re at 20% for your housing costs. Not bad. Not bad. All right. Fine. Transportation is 400 bucks. Oh, plus fuel. That\u2019s 1,029. Okay, fine.\u00a0Debt payments are killing you at $1,204 a month. That\u2019s a lot. In fact, just for easy math, let\u2019s zero that out. Watch what happens to the fixed cost number.\u00a0Drops to 53%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:56]\u00a0Okay. So that\u2019s good to know. We could tackle the debt. No problem. Groceries at 715. Okay. Clothes at 40, phone at one 178, and subscriptions at 336. If we actually look into the breakdown of how each of you is spending your fixed costs, Jason, you\u2019re at 61%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:18]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But Megan, you\u2019re at 66%. Do you see that? So your blended average is 62%, but Megan, your number\u2019s actually high.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:29]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a problem. If the two of you were married, then we\u2019d be having a discussion about how to do this as a team. But with the assumption that you\u2019re going to continue as is, then what that implication is that each of you needs to be responsible for your own finances. Agreed?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:48]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I think our intent is that we build this plan as a team. And so for example, and I think maybe this is obvious, but when her income goes to zero, her fixed costs come to mine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So you are approaching this as a team. That\u2019s actually great clarification. Cool. All right. So if that\u2019s the case, then that raises some very interesting questions. So let\u2019s take a look here. On your fixed costs, then probably Jason might need to shoulder some more of Megan\u2019s fixed costs if that\u2019s the case, because your income is way higher.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:27]\u00a0Just to put the numbers out there, Jason makes 17,000 a month gross, and Megan makes 4,000 a month gross. So something to think about. Let\u2019s keep going down the list. Investments are at 2%. Are you doing some pre-tax investments?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:44]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much are you taking out for each of you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:48]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Mine\u2019s 13.7.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a013.7%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:52]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Percent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what about you, Megan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:56]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Mine was at 11 and I just reduced it to the company match at 7.5.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. So that\u2019s great. That offers some margin to play with. We can look at all that stuff later. But right now your post-tax investments are basically very nominal at 2%. Fine. Your savings are at 3%. You\u2019re saving 200 bucks a month for your emergency fund and 150 for your gifts. You basically have three months of emergency fund. That seems a little low.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:24]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Agreed, yeah. We\u2019ve had to tap the savings for the stuff that\u2019s been happening.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That seems bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:32]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, exactly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you have to tap it. You also are at the low end of a emergency fund, and you have a baby coming. Plus income is going down. A lot of risk at once. So let\u2019s focus on what matters. You have a lot of risk. What the\u00a0[Bleep]? Your guilt-free spending is 33%, and I believe that. Is that true? 4,600 bucks a month on guilt-free spending?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:01]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do y\u2019all spend it on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:04]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0The theater tickets are in there, the sports ticks. The eating out budget\u2019s in there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:17]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Theater should be plural. Sport should be plural.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Just have to say, I love this show. I love this show because I talk to people who bought a 78,000-dollar truck and their income is $60,000. I have that, and I have a couple, you, who has ballet, multiple theater tickets, and $17,000 for hockey tickets. This is the most diverse show on the internet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:49]\u00a0I\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0love it. Everybody who\u2019s always leaving comments, oh, Ramit. Boohoo. Always talking to rich people. Well, actually, in this case, you guys are pretty rich. But we also talk to people from all over the country, all over the world, all over the socioeconomic spectrum. I\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0love it. What do you all think of this CSP plus a baby?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:07]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve never seen a CSP like it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Every CSP is different. It actually to me is like the fingerprints of your life. It really shows what you value. And here it\u2019s clear. Ballet, eating out. It\u2019s very clear. Now, can we fit it? We will talk about that, but I can sure see who you are from this CSP. It tells me so much. Megan, what do you notice about the CSP?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:33]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think it\u2019s all encompassing. When we list out the things that we guilt-free spend on, it doesn\u2019t have all the things that I think about and all the goals and the things that are going onto credit cards. My epic pass is coming up, so for our ski season and also any traveling. We\u2019re still doing a lot of very cool things, and there\u2019s the occasional Michelin-star restaurant, and that\u2019s not in the budget in general, but also, I don\u2019t feel like it\u2019s accounted for. I want more detail, that\u2019s what I see my CSP.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:11]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, you want more guilt-free spending is what you want.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:13]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I want more guilt free spending. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s good to know. I think that that\u2019s a pretty candid answer. How would you address that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:23]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0In years past, I would write out a list of all the things. I put it in order of priority, and that\u2019s as far as I get.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Writing it down and prioritizing it is not actually the point. The point is just to have an honest, accurate assessment of where your money\u2019s going. I\u2019m guessing you\u2019re underestimating your guilt-free spending by at least $2,000 a month. If it says $4,622 a month, maybe it\u2019s 6,000 bucks a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:02]\u00a0So for me, I always say, in order to live a Rich Life, you got to be honest\u2013 honest with yourself and honest with the people around you. First thing first is just to actually put those things in here. It doesn\u2019t make you a bad person. You don\u2019t need to prioritize it. Just put the numbers in here. It\u2019s currently at 33%.\u00a0If we made it 6,000, it\u2019d be 43%. And that immediately is a red flag.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:25]\u00a0It\u2019s a red flag because it\u2019s higher than average or higher than the recommended percentages, which probably means you\u2019re compromising on your savings or investing goals. Now, if you already had maxed out everything and you are just coasting, you don\u2019t need to invest anymore, fine. Spend the money. Go have a nice time. But I think in your case, you got a baby coming up, and that\u2019s going to have its own unexpected expenses, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:50]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Looking at the CSP, I feel like our gross to net number looks quite good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have other problems. One is that you\u2019re in credit card debt, both of you. I don\u2019t know about you, but if I was making $256,900 a year, I would have a no debt policy in my house. We are never getting into credit card debt. That\u2019s just unacceptable for our family. That\u2019s the equivalent of saying like, we\u2019re not going to urinate on the rug in our house. It\u2019s just not going to happen. This\u2019s\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0crazy. That\u2019s how I feel at $256,000. There\u2019s no debt. That\u2019s ridiculous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:29]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do y\u2019all think about that? Is that too strong of a statement or do you agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:35]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:38]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is overspending, like it almost always is when I see people in credit card debt. So to me this goes deeper than an SOP here and like, should we work an extra five hours? It\u2019s not about that. It\u2019s about the fact that I think you\u2019ve gotten sloppy with your spending. I don\u2019t think you have a clear vision on what kind of money policies and culture do you want to create in your household.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:11]\u00a0And I think it\u2019s slightly complicated by the fact that you do combine your income, but kind of not. You\u2019re a team, but you don\u2019t technically combine your income. So it\u2019s like, who gets to say what the rules are? It\u2019s very murky. The whole thing is murky. I hate murkiness.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:33]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Very muddy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It is. I want clear lines of demarcation. This is our rule. This is our policy. If this, then that. So first of all, how does that sound conceptually to you? Megan, do you like clear lines of demarcation or no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:52]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:54]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m surprised.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:56]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m surprised too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:57]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0In theory I do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I don\u2019t believe you. I don\u2019t believe you. I feel like you try to squirrel out of that and you go like, I don\u2019t know. It depends. Because in the end you want it your way and you\u2019re like, it\u2019s going to work out my way. I don\u2019t want to give a straight answer and get pinned down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:17]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:21]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Or disagree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:25]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Even in answer, you can\u2019t say I agree. You\u2019re like, I agree. What the\u00a0[Bleep]? Agree or disagree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:36]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Ideally, I agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:40]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0If we had rules, if we had these procedures, that\u2019d be great. I would love that. I love operating within my rules. I do. I love that with my\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:51]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0But do you follow them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:53]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the thing. I\u2019m not sure. I know it comes from how I grew up and how I was raised is how this comes up, because I understand I can work a lot and I can get money and I can pay for things and live within my means, but then I also know that it\u2019s been demonstrated to me that you can just put it on a credit card or like, it\u2019s okay to have massive amounts of debt. I know that\u2019s not okay conceptually. Ideally, I don\u2019t want that. And when I\u2019m debt free, it feels really nice. But then it\u2019s also like, I get sloppy and then I get the slippery slope and then I just don\u2019t live within my means.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back after this short break.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:39]\u00a0Now back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why don\u2019t you live within your means, Megan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:43]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think I\u2019d ever asked Jason to pay for something for me, something specific. Jason wanted me to go mountaineering with him, or whatever the activity is, I refuse to be taught by him, so I\u2019ll hire people. So to learn how to ski and to learn how to rock climb and mountaineer, these were things that got put on a credit card because I wanted to be able to keep up in his lifestyle, but could I afford that? No, but the opportunity cost was there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:30]\u00a0So it\u2019s this, I\u2019m trying to keep up with him and with the lifestyle, but I also know that I can\u2019t actually afford that. It\u2019s this sloppy slippery slope of can I actually afford this? No. But I still going to do it? Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Have you ever had a series of discussions about this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:51]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:53]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0When I express frustration or costs of things that I would like to do, like I would like to have a doula at our birth, there\u2019s questions of like, well, where is that money coming from? And so then I think, well, I want it, so I\u2019m just going to put out my credit card, because that\u2019s important to me. Can I afford it with my income? No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:21]\u00a0But I also know that because we keep our things so separate, I know that he\u2019s covering so many other things in our finances. I don\u2019t feel entitled to any of his money. When I say I want to do something that\u2019s specific to my needs, rather than feel the pushback, then I\u2019d rather just avoid that conversation, and I\u2019d rather just put on a credit card and I\u2019ll figure it out somehow. Kick it down the line.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:55]\u00a0In years past, Jason will say, I\u2019m going to get a bonus and we\u2019ll just wipe out all our credit cards, and that\u2019s going to be fine. And that\u2019s great. But the last bonus could cover his credit cards. And it\u2019s like, but we put a lot of mutual expenses on my credit cards. And so I just hold onto it and keep paying off what I can.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0As you\u2019re saying this to me, what are you hearing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:24]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0A whiner. Inequality in our understanding and just operating in gray space rather than being firm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree you\u2019re operating in gray space. There\u2019s a lot of murkiness. There\u2019s a lot of things unspoken. Yes. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:44]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I try to be accommodating. Lots of moments where I\u2019m not putting the logical rules down of if I want to do this, I should actually plan to do this. And just because it sounds great now doesn\u2019t mean I need to do it right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. There\u2019s a lot of focus on the individual in the way that you conduct finances.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:13]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You do you. I do me. Sometimes we combine, but if I, Megan, can\u2019t afford a ski jacket, I would have to ask. I would have to bring it up, and then I sometimes get pushback, which makes me not want to ask at all. It\u2019s this default of every single time there\u2019s a purchase decision, I have to agonize over which card is it on? Who\u2019s going to pay? What if I can\u2019t afford it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:46]\u00a0It\u2019s exhausting, and it\u2019s actually not working. You\u2019re in credit card debt again. You have a baby coming. Your income is going down. It\u2019s not working, and it\u2019s actually not the sign of a unified money management system in a couple. Jason, what did you hear?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:07]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I heard that, I think for the first time, that her decisions are, I\u2019m just going do it on the credit card because I don\u2019t want to talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That caught you by surprise, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:19]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, yeah. Because in the past, she just gave the example of, oh, I can\u2019t afford that. I can\u2019t work for it. And I said, great, how much does that cost? How do we make it work? She tells me the cost and then, great, I can figure that out. That\u2019s a dollar problem I could solve. But we haven\u2019t done that discussion in years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Megan, why are you crying?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:39]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Pretty normal state these days with pregnancy, but I just had a lot of feelings and it brought up a lot of things that I\u2019ve just been avoiding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. Are part of those that sometimes having to ask and then get the question, where\u2019s the money come from? How much is it going to cost? Is that upsetting sometimes?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:00]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, it is upsetting. And so it brings up a lot of like, well, I could figure out something. I can do a bandaid fix, and it\u2019s all going to work out later and my bandaid fix is, I can just put it on a credit card.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nobody in a relationship likes to have to ask for money, and then they certainly don\u2019t like to be questioned, like, where\u2019s it going? It feels very diminutive. It feels very like parental child. At the same time, Jason is like, well, I need some numbers here. I need to be able to operate somehow on the finances.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:39]\u00a0And you can see this dynamic that\u2019s been created. Jason is trying to get information. Megan is like, I don\u2019t want to deal with it in this way. I\u2019ll just do it myself. And it\u2019s produced this dynamic where neither of you is feeling good about your money decisions. It\u2019s certainly not a smooth-running machine, which is what I would love for the two of you to have.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:07]\u00a0A clear understanding who owns what part of the spending, how much have we agreed. Clear boundaries of like, this is how much we\u2019re going to put towards X, Y, Z, and much fewer questions back and forth about can we afford that? That question should not be coming up. What do you think would be a way for you both to feel good about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:35]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0My immediate response is to have more of it, but I don\u2019t really need more of it but to have a plan, to have an understanding of where our budget is. It\u2019s never been shared in this intentional detail before.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, now you have it. So what do you need going forward?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:58]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d like it to all be combined. That would be very nice. I think an envelope system could be very nice for us. Anytime I spend money, when you say guilt-free, it\u2019s all guilt full. There\u2019s never a moment when I spend money that I think like, I deserve this.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Extremely insightful. Megan says, I don\u2019t feel entitled to his money. The invisible script here is talking about my needs makes me unreasonable, so I\u2019ll just do it on my own. See, we\u2019re all raised with this idea of independence in America.\u00a0And independence can be good, but hyper independence, taken to an extreme, leaves you a pregnant woman in credit card debt who feels guilty even talking about money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:50]\u00a0Meanwhile, Jason wants numbers, which is fair to ask for, but his approach is not connecting with Megan at all. Megan has a ghost. If you remember from\u00a0Episode\u00a05\u00a0of this podcast, Sheena had a ghost of, I need to pay off debt.\u00a0And anytime her partner, Peter, wanted to talk about how they can spend their money even for a special event like an anniversary,\u00a0he was talking to her ghost, not to her. So can you identify Megan\u2019s ghost? Let\u2019s listen to her describe her childhood for a clue. Please be warned.\u00a0There will be a discussion about suicide in the upcoming story.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you remember about earliest memories about your family talking about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:32]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s never enough of it. I remember my parents arguing and one racing to the bank and I got in the second parent\u2019s car to chase them because one was going to empty out their checking account. They later divorced, but it\u2019s still like that\u2019s scary though.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What did you take away from that now as an adult looking back?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:55]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve been operating in like, I have to protect myself. I know that no relationship is guaranteed to last for forever. And so the hesitation and always knowing to protect myself from my future is very much a part of the every paycheck understanding of what I put away and what I save for my future self.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You said protecting your future self, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:23]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. My dad got laid off when I was a kid, 14-ish. He killed himself when I was 21. He never was employed between those ages. He was supported by selling off properties that he had owned with his dad and my uncle. And then toward the end of his life, it was asking his dad for cash. When he chose to take his life, it was money thing. He owed back child support, so he couldn\u2019t protect himself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:10]\u00a0So I have that very much understanding. I also know that my mom and her husband have extreme amounts of debt, and they don\u2019t have any retirement savings. They don\u2019t have a way to protect themselves. This is very much like forefront of my mind since I was 21 years old, that I have to have a plan to protect myself at some point.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:39]\u00a0So I did years of service after university because I knew that\u2019s how I could beat down a bunch of student loan debt. So I took like a volunteer job because that gave me education grants at the end of it. I don\u2019t have parents who can float me thousands of dollars if I were to ever be in a situation where I can\u2019t pay for something or like I\u2019m choosing to not get a job.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You mentioned the word protect many times.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:13]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Protect yourself, protect your future. And now that I understand your family dynamics, that really makes a lot of sense. I\u2019m so sorry for what happened to your dad. I can only imagine your relationship with money.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Before we hear Jason\u2019s upbringing, let\u2019s just acknowledge the horrific experience that Megan had growing up. I\u2019m very glad that she\u2019s in therapy,\u00a0and I\u2019m truly honored that she would come on this show to have a discussion with me. I think we can all start to understand that we have no idea how we would react if we had the same childhood as\u00a0Megan.\u00a0Now I wanted to understand more about her invisible scripts around money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I am curious if protecting yourself is one of the primary ways you describe your relationship with money. How does it feel that you are the lower earner in this relationship, not married, pregnant, and if something happened in this relationship, you would be on your own?<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:21]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s also probably one of the reasons why I\u2019ve not wanted to share finances with Jason in the past is because I know that he has a mentality to fight tooth and nail. And in the event of the demise of our relationship, if he knows all the things about me and all about my finances, he would win any argument based off of finances, and that didn\u2019t matter until I chose to make a person with him.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is this relationship on the way out or something? You\u2019re two months away from having a baby.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:02]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No, but it\u2019s also like I am a planner in the sense of like, I feel like Jason and I make a really great team, and we have a lot of fun together. I didn\u2019t trick him into having a baby or anything. There\u2019s a lot of things that I\u2019m like, I really want to go into all of these big life decisions intentionally, and it was all very intentional.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:29]\u00a0But I also know people get divorces and people break up, and we\u2019re going to be different people in 15 years and maybe we still like each other and we still respect each other. And hopefully that\u2019s the case, we\u2019ve grown together and not apart.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would it be scary to you to say out loud, I want to be with Jason forever?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:52]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No, no, because I try to trick him into saying that back at me because I tell him that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, that\u2019s surprising to me.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:01]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0But he doesn\u2019t necessarily say it in the right words that I would like to hear it back.\u201c<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:06]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that is more scary for me than for her, but I also have more confidence in our ability as a team to do and execute these things we want to do. I think we\u2019re good, happy, and want things to continue to get better.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Megan, I\u2019m curious also that you use the word protect a lot, but you don\u2019t seem to protect yourself when you overspend.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:34]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0True.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How do you reconcile that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:37]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if I reconcile it. It\u2019s just a naughty habit of trying to bridge the gap of whatever that is. If we are choosing to go to Ireland for the weekend and we\u2019re booking our very discounted tickets, I put on my credit card. Should I said yes to put it on my credit card? No. Could I have really afforded that? No.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:06]\u00a0But is there a rationalization that Jason and I go through when we\u2019re like, well, we\u2019re going to spend the same amount of money anyways on eating out for the weekend. Should I have asked Jason just to pull out his card for that if that was our choice as a couple? Yes. But in those moments, I\u2019m not going to.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019ve already lost at that point, if you have sit and decide who is pulling out their credit card. That\u2019s a systems failure. Are you in touch with your mom? You mentioned that her finances are in trouble.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:40]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, yeah. I\u2019m very much like my mom in the sense of, well, I have a plan. This is the ABCs of it, but this outlier opportunity came out, so I\u2019m just going to spend anyways, and it just gets tacked onto the bottom of this plan. So does this plan really exist? Theoretically. Do we follow it? No. And that\u2019s how I also operate.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You have a double whammy as well because in your job you can work as much as you want and make a lot of money. People who work these hourly type of jobs or jobs where more time equals more money, they end up getting a very distorted sense of reality. And it\u2019s bad on both sides.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:32]\u00a0One, they don\u2019t really think credit card debt or anything is a problem because they\u2019re like, I\u2019ll just work a few extra weekends. It\u2019s no big deal. But then second, when they are not working, they\u2019re constantly thinking about how much money they\u2019re losing. So it\u2019s not just a trip to go skiing. It\u2019s like, well, that trip is actually costing me $6,000.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:50]\u00a0I see the nods on your faces. It\u2019s an extremely perverse, unhealthy relationship with money. Unless you are strongly rooted in how money works, what are your values, and then your job, whether it be flight attendant or whatever, it becomes something that serves your Rich Life. Your finances are not meeting you where you need to be. And more importantly, the dynamic that the two of you set up is not serving you, especially with the upcoming major financial disruption.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I asked Jason now about his upbringing with money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:30]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0When I was a kid, I would make as much money as I could and save it and not spend anything. So it was very much save, save, save, save, save, don\u2019t spend. Started a business at 14. From 14 on, paid for all my own stuff. Did take loans to do school because parents didn\u2019t have anything, so didn\u2019t get the contribution there.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What did your parents say about money when you were a kid?<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:58]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0My father, the only thing he ever said was buy low, sell high.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:02]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0So it was, find the value deals. If you\u2019re going to buy something, make sure it\u2019s a value deal. He mostly made the money and my mother did balancing the checkbook and all that, paid the bills. But it was a very separate thing. She just sent the money to her and she took care of it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what do you think about that, looking back?<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:26]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0It was generally fine. When you became an adolescent and started needing stuff on your own, it was like on your own. Figure it out. So I did, figured it out.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0A lot of our parents, they had the same dynamic. One person, usually dad earning money, mom would maybe get the check and administer the household. Isn\u2019t that happening in reverse then? She basically makes her paycheck and sends a little bit to you and you administer the household.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:57]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. But not the full picture, obviously.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because she has her own expenses, etc.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:03]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And if her own expenses were within her means, great. No problem. I don\u2019t think we would have a problem. We wouldn\u2019t be where we are.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, let\u2019s not forget you have $26,000 of credit card debt too.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:20]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, sure. But I also have means to take care of it. If we said at the end of this call, we\u2019re like, that\u2019s the number one priority we need to do it, it\u2019s done before the end of the year.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree. That\u2019s fair. At the same time, if Megan were not pregnant and needing to take care of the baby, she could theoretically get on a plane and rapidly pay it off too, right?<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:46]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Totally. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I agree with your point. Technically, I think that biologically you got to acknowledge. Megan, you\u2019re going to be home for a while, and that\u2019s just reality. So I guess I want to know how much do you want to bring your money together? Because I can help you in any way you want. If you want to keep your money separate and you want to set up some rules, we can tighten them up. It\u2019s not a problem. We\u2019ll create some simple guidelines. You all understand where you stand.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:19]\u00a0But ultimately each of you is responsible for your own finances. You\u2019re basically running a business partnership. It\u2019s like, here\u2019s what you\u2019re responsible for. Here\u2019s what I\u2019m responsible for. Transfer this much money each month, etc. You can do it. We can make it work, but each person has to hold up their end of the bargain, and it\u2019s like, if you don\u2019t, we need to talk about what happens then.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:43]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s true for both sides. So for example, if we combine and then we plan 15 months later Megan does go back to work and she doesn\u2019t, that impacts the plan. Similarly, if it\u2019s separate, hey, I\u2019ll take all the fixed costs. Keep your savings rates and stuff high the way they are, anything that comes down and hits your account as your guilt free for whatever you want. We could do it that way. But similarly, if you overspend, that creates a problem. And I feel like those problems all come to me. So eventually they all become my problems.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Which is my point. It is a problem that all financial problems become your problem.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:30]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0They should not be only your problem. The risks and rewards should be distributed, not necessarily 50-50, but everyone\u2019s got to have some skin in the game. That\u2019s exactly why I don\u2019t do the family finances solely for my wife and me.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:48]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I could. I made sure not to. My wife is extremely adept at the finances. She does parts of it. She does parts of it way better than I ever could. And we talk about it. We are rowing the same direction.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:01]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0I think a good example there is when we did the math on the house, we did the, what can we afford? What\u2019s comfortable and good and easy? Which was way less than we could afford, of course. Didn\u2019t want to spend what was possible. So bought under our means, and then we did all the picking out together and all that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:24]\u00a0But then when it came to actually understanding the mortgage, the costs, when those costs hit, what accounts they go to, how they\u2019re paid for, all that, she did not want to participate.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I wouldn\u2019t either if I was not owning the house. And Megan, you didn\u2019t want to be a part owner of the house.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:48]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0I was there for signings and things and read documents, but there was never a, do you want to be on the house? There\u2019s never that conversation. It was always a understanding that like, it was going to be Jason\u2019s house. It was going to be his name. There was never like, well, do you want to be a part of this? And I offered my cash for it, but he declined and said no. So there was never like a, do you want\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. Did you offer your cash and he declined?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:26]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Why, Jason?<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:28]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Because she couldn\u2019t afford it. My goal at the time was, get her savings, get her investments up because it wasn\u2019t set up right. So it\u2019s like, get your financial house there. I was like, we already planned for that. I already saved for that. We have it all in cash.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jason, you remind me of me in my 20s in a good way and a bad way. I\u2019ll tell you what I mean. The good way is like you have a high income, you are clearly interested in personal finance, and you\u2019ve accomplished a lot. You own the house. Your investments are $694,000. It\u2019s all very impressive. Okay, there\u2019s a little bit of debt, but fine.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:15]\u00a0All that is all manageable. It\u2019s good. It\u2019s really impressive, and obviously you\u2019re going to, financially speaking, be very wealthy, etc. When I was in my early 20s, I was a very utilitarian guy. Like that poster you have behind you, if I even had a poster hanging on my wall, it wouldn\u2019t even have a frame. It was just like, tack that\u00a0[Bleep]\u00a0up. Who gives a [Bleep]? Why do you need a poster? That\u2019s frivolous, that kind of thing. And it was very efficient.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:46]\u00a0Let\u2019s get the numbers and then, boom, move on. And I hear some elements of that in the way that you talk to Megan about money. And the thing is like, yeah, of course, you need to understand the numbers. Yes. You need to have ratios. Yes. But I\u2019ve learned, it took me a long time, that it\u2019s so much more effective to meet people where they are. Remember Megan has had a very traumatic experience with money in her past. Then to paint the picture. What\u2019s the vision? Connect emotionally. You\u2019ll have a baby coming.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:25]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That raises so many questions, especially for women. And we\u2019ve heard Megan use the word protect over and over. There\u2019s definitely so much to be covered there. Connect. That\u2019s what I learned. And then finally, on the very back end, I\u2019m talking like the last 5%, is get the numbers dialed in.\u00a0That\u2019s the polish.<\/p>\n<p>[01:14:46]\u00a0What I hear though is the opposite. It\u2019s like she comes to you. She\u2019s talking about something. You go like, how much is it going to cost? And she\u2019s instantly turned off. Like so many people are. Meeting her where she is is like, hey, let\u2019s talk about it. What do you think? What would make you feel good?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:03]\u00a0Here\u2019s what would make me feel good. Gosh, this makes me a little concerned, but I\u2019m not sure. How should we handle it together? It\u2019s really shifting these conversations into a joint unit, us against the world. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:21]\u00a0<strong>Jason:<\/strong>\u00a0Interesting. Megan\u2019s been assertive about what she wants or decisions. That\u2019s super helpful to me. I\u2019m like, got it. Can work with that. That\u2019s helpful. The vague stuff is very difficult.<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I understand that it\u2019s frustrating to get squirrely answers. I get that. And we can fix that. We can work on that. But I think what I\u2019m really saying is starting off with like, how much does it cost? Let\u2019s get the numbers. It\u2019s not producing the result you want. And I\u2019m going to just ask, Megan, does it feel good?<\/p>\n<p>[01:15:57]\u00a0<strong>Megan:<\/strong>\u00a0No. It was also when I\u2019m asked like, well, how much is the baby going to cost? I said, well, I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t have that. I\u2019ve never had a baby. It\u2019s also very Googleable.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Totally. I believe that the person who makes more money, especially if they make vastly more than their partner, oftentimes they are more financially savvy, not always, but often. I believe it\u2019s their responsibility to work with their partner and help bring them up to a level where you\u2019re both effectively partners.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:33]\u00a0And sometimes that means you got to deal with stuff where, of course, you\u2019re like, Jason, just give me the number. Trust me. I get it. When I first got married, I was like, just give me the number. And I\u2019m like, oh,\u00a0[Bleep], this is not working. It\u2019s not working. I have to connect with my wife. I have to understand where she\u2019s coming from. I have to slow down in order to go together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:16:57]\u00a0And you might have to slow down in a way that feels like so unproductive to you. I\u2019m very passionate. You can hear it in my voice because I know what that feels like. It feels like I just need a number in cell C13. That\u2019s all I need. But actually, what we\u2019re realizing is this whole conversation is so much bigger than a number, isn\u2019t it?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>Okay. So Megan is eight months pregnant. They keep their accounts separate. Both Megan and Jason are in credit card debt. Jason owns the house,\u00a0and they don\u2019t communicate effectively about money. Honestly, a lot of couples are in somewhat similar situations. Most couples only have an honest conversation about money maybe five times in their entire lives, and one of them is when they have children.<\/p>\n<p>[01:17:41]\u00a0Now,\u00a0beyond the upcoming baby, which is really causing a lot of these conversations,\u00a0you\u2019ll notice the traumatic upbringing, the stories that they\u2019ve created about each other,\u00a0and how they are really not connecting. It just feels very transactional. Next week we\u2019ll continue this conversation,\u00a0and I promise you will be surprised.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Jason is a 40-year-old COO. Megan is a 34-year-old flight attendant. They have more than $3 million in assets, but they\u2019re both in credit card debt and their finances are extremely murky. To top it all off, Megan is 8 months pregnant\u2014and they don\u2019t have a plan to get their finances in order. This [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118865","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118865","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118865"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118865\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118865"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118865"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}