{"id":118868,"date":"2024-09-10T12:51:49","date_gmt":"2024-09-10T16:51:49","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118868"},"modified":"2026-02-18T15:52:39","modified_gmt":"2026-02-18T19:52:39","slug":"173-michelle-ryan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/173-michelle-ryan\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 173. \u201cWe spend 113% of what we make\u2014but can\u2019t do anything to fix it\u201d (Part 2)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe spend 113% of what we make\u2014but we can\u2019t find a fix\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/s2Ac1Qtgt8A\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/0eO4uLfEfxtANoXv7OCdyW?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Michelle, 42, Ryan, 43, return for a deep dive into their Conscious Spending Plan. They spend $763 a month on Target, $1,185 a month on Amazon, and $1,230 on groceries\u2014carrying a fixed-costs percentage of 113%. Drastic changes are needed, but Michelle isn\u2019t convinced anything can be done to save their outlook.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2013 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>LMNT | Right now, LMNT is offering 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. This is a great way to try all 8 flavors. Get yours at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT\">https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>ZocDoc | Download the ZocDoc app for FREE\u00a0 at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/zocdoc.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/zocdoc.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0then find and book a top-rated doctor today.<\/p>\n<p>Babbel | For our listeners only, get 60% off your Babbel subscription at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/babbel.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/Babbel.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Trust &amp; Will | Secure your assets and protect your loved ones. Get 10% off plus free shipping on your estate plan documents by visiting\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/trustandwill.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/trustandwill.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/172-michelle-ryan\/\">\u201cWe saved for retirement but have no money to spend NOW\u201d (Part 1)<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0We are stuck. We stopped dreaming.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:02]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Most days I\u2019m just trying to survive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:04]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Really is death by 1,000 paper cuts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:06]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think big changes need to be made. I\u2019m a little afraid to make them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0In part two of my conversation\u2013 what would be the word to describe the situation of your household?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:13]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Chaos. It\u2019s too much stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:15]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0We have way too much stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0They have three young kids which command most of their spending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:20]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0This one is water shoes, baby wipes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:22]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Snacks for the kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:23]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Vitamins. We took them to a little kitty show.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:25]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Dunkin Donuts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:27]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Gymnastics. Swimming lessons, all the extracurriculars.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s obvious they need to make changes, but they are resisting.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:34] So couples like you, do not spend $985 a month at Amazon, plus $563 a month at Target, plus $1,000 on groceries, plus $955 on kids\u2019 activities, plus $648 miscellaneous. It doesn\u2019t happen.<br \/>\n[00:00:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>You\u2019ll notice that I\u2019m dragging them along this process.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:46]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t see it as realistic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t think chopping 200 off Target is possible?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:52]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Deprivation is what it feels like.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Each step of the way, they are resisting me. They\u2019re totally indecisive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:01]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels like wasted effort.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:06]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think any progress is better than no progress.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What would it look like, 10 out of 10, for the two of you, if you had a healthy relationship with money, and it was embedded in the fabric of your family? What would that look and feel like?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:12]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I have trouble seeing that future, but I guess I\u2019m at a point, let\u2019s say, with money where I enjoy coming home and just experiencing life, I guess you could say, instead of the coming home and surviving.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:17]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not sure I could answer that. I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know what that looks like.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019ve never seen it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:19]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve never seen it. I\u2019ve never envisioned it. I\u2019ve never seen it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019ve seen couples on this podcast, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:24]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve seen that. I actually love the after story, the ones who are sitting on several million and just can\u2019t figure out yet how to spend it. Man, that\u2019s a problem I want to have. When we were dual income, I made sure that we maxed out when we could. We were doing very well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How old were your kids then?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:32]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0They didn\u2019t exist yet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh wow, I wonder if that has anything to do with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:35]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, it has everything to do with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Dual income, no kids already is an amazing advantageous opportunity for young people to be able to save a ton of money. It is the best time in terms of income versus expenses that you will ever have. Couples who plan to have children many times they have not yet built the skill of creating a unified financial system. And they don\u2019t actually need to. They\u2019re just like, oh, life is pretty simple. Let\u2019s go out to pizza. We have so much money. It doesn\u2019t really matter, blah blah blah blah blah. It\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:10]\u00a0The problem is kids come in and the minute they come in, they disrupt everything in every possible way. Now you\u2019re tired, stressed, your system is being constantly stressed with all kinds of expenses you never planned for. And you never built a unified, rich life system, something where you both know when there is a shared vision, then you don\u2019t have to be the cop. And you don\u2019t have to be checking on your phone how much your partner spent, because your partner knows. They have the same vision because they co-created it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:29]\u00a0Now, here\u2019s what I want you to do. I want you to talk with each other. I want you to zoom out of your day to day that you\u2019re in. And I want you two to create a vision for your children, for their activities, for how you want them to feel.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:48]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I would love for them to have free days. They need to have some free days for sure. I would love for them to look forward to the activity that they do have. I want them to have skin in the game and ask for the one that they want and enjoy it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:04]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I definitely would like to have them responsible for helping to get this place back on track, cleaner, more organized. I want them to have a say in the activities that they do choose.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:23]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I would love for them to have a place to put their stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:26]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I want them to be happy too when they\u2019re here. I want them to take pride in their home. I want us to take pride in our home. I know it\u2019s not ideal, but it\u2019s our home for now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what would be the word you would use to describe the situation of your household, the physical situation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:49]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Chaos.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:51]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Chaos.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that how you want to feel at home?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:53]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:54]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, we don\u2019t want to feel like that. Wow, that\u2019s a powerful vision. What if by, let\u2019s say 7pm, the house could be relatively clean, as clean as it can get with three kids? But clean. Clean so you could walk around, you won\u2019t step on a Lego. Clean enough that you and your children would take pride in your living environment. What do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:23]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019d be awesome.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:25]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say if ever there was a dream, that\u2019s the current dream.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, beautiful. I love a relevant dream that we can work on now. Okay, do you see a connection between all the stuff you buy for your kids and the chaos that is in your house?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:45]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:46]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s the connection? Can you just say it out loud for me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:51]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s too much stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:52]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0We have way too much stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you both agree or are you just saying that because you think I want to hear it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:02]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh no, we say it to each other on a daily basis.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:05]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0We say it all the time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. How do you both say it all the time and then you keep buying all this stuff on Amazon and Target?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:11]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Great question. I don\u2019t have an answer for you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:14]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I really don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m being delusional either. I don\u2019t feel like the stuff that I\u2019m buying from Target and Amazon is\u2013 it\u2019s mostly consumables on my end.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s almost like we see chaos on the CSP, chaos in the house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:32]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0100%. That is absolutely accurate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Deep relationship, deep connection. And I still notice that when I ask you both about it, you do give me some honest answers, but there\u2019s a lot of explanation. Those excuses are like quicksand. They will keep you stuck down in the weeds until you both decide,\u00a0I am sick of my CSP being at 113%\u00a0fixed cost. I\u2019m sick of coming home and it looks like this and feels like this. I\u2019m sick of feeling this way. And once you finally get there, which a lot of people it takes in 20, 30, 40 years, maybe you will decide to make a serious set of changes. I\u2019d like to help you get there now instead of 25 years from now. What do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:14]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Me too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:14]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, please.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s take a look. I\u2019m going back to your CSP. All right. Savings are at 1%, so you\u2019re basically saving nothing. Your guilt-free spending is negative 28%, which just shows, again, that you are deeply, deeply in the red. Look, you actually listed it out, which is more than most do. Takeout is $500 a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:40]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That includes\u2013 I\u2019m not excusing it, I\u2019m telling you what we threw in there was, not just pizza Friday, but anything that showed up as like a coffee, Dunkin Donuts, Starbucks, which is not often, but it\u2019s there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s often enough to be $500 in a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:57]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s a lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0$500 a month on takeout just doesn\u2019t make sense for a couple in your situation. That\u2019s it. Bottom line. Stores, $186. Entertainment, that\u2019s $264. That\u2019s on top of $178 of subscriptions. So you\u2019re losing thousands of dollars every month. What decisions that one or both of you make with your spending do you think has led to you being in this situation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:34]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably buying stuff for the kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And when he sees you come home with the new bike, or the new beads, or the new craft stuff, what is your kid\u2019s reaction?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:44]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0He loves it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He loves you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:47]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Don\u2019t you think he would love you if you still didn\u2019t buy him all the stuff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:52]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Michelle, what do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:56]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I think he feels like a hero. Daddy\u2019s the best. Thanks, Daddy. Love you. I think that\u2019s just how he\u2019s showing love. I think that\u2019s part of how he takes care of them in his eyes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That how you show love, Ryan? Seems to me it\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:17]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now, what if I said you can\u2019t spend a cent on your kids for the next year?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:26]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019d be horrible. I wouldn\u2019t want that, no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:32]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I want them to have the enjoyment and the activities that they enjoy doing that they want to do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:44]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It really is death by 1,000 paper cuts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t stop 1,000 paper cuts with 1,000 band aids. You stop the knife at the source. By the way, how do you decide how much you spend on each kid for gifts?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:05]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:10]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0We just buy some stuff and try to even it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:16]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It never feels over the top. It really doesn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t need a sunshade. You don\u2019t need a kid\u2019s bike. You don\u2019t need flip flops for the ocean, or even 3-dollar beads. Now, can you have them? Could you get them because you want them? Maybe. Maybe. We could find out what you can afford, but until you really get honest about the difference between needs and wants, we are stuck here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:44]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I would like to be able to exist outside of being mommy and daddy because I think we\u2019ve gotten to the point where we\u2019ve completely lost sight of the marriage and putting any fuel into that, and that fuel being money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:09]\u00a0If money existed for childcare, we\u2019d be able to enjoy some time without them. Even if the childcare meant that we couldn\u2019t afford the restaurant, we\u2019d sit in the car, hang out with the coffee we brought from home. That\u2019s fine. I would have a nice chat around the corner in the parking lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:34]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The money that you want to redo your family structure with finances has to come from the money that\u2019s going towards your kids.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Last week Michelle and Ryan were absolutely mystified where their money was going, but now we can see that a lot of it is going towards their kids. And did you notice their money psychology? They\u2019re both the hero when they buy their kids\u2019 something. When I asked what would happen if Ryan couldn\u2019t buy anything for his kids for a year, he said it would be horrible. And their lives are overflowing with stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:08]\u00a0It\u2019s all over their house.\u00a0It\u2019s all over their CSP. They call it chaos, and they can\u2019t seem to figure out how to stop it because they don\u2019t even truly realize what it\u2019s costing them.\u00a0Hold that thought. We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:21]\u00a0Now, back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:22]\u00a0Interestingly,\u00a0almost every couple I speak to in credit card debt has a problem saying no to their children. I\u2019m going to try to get them to see exactly what this is costing them and what needs to change.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have to fundamentally cut. And I don\u2019t just mean cut with a little kitchen knife. I mean cut with whatever\u2019s a big knife, the knife that I don\u2019t even know the name of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:45]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Machete.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0A machete. Look at this. The real answer is that if you want to restructure the way your family exists in a relationship with money and with each other\u2013 you actually said you want less stuff, less activities, less. Guess what? It\u2019s a double win. You get less stuff and you actually have to pay less, but you guys have to change the way you see it. What\u2019s the first feeling that comes to mind when I say that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:52]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Feel bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You feel bad. Exactly. Ryan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:55]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Feel bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:56]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Regret is the word that comes to mind, but I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s the right emotion for it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:01]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Deprivation is what it feels like. It\u2019s funny for me to say that because, look, I didn\u2019t do any of that. I don\u2019t know. It feels wrong to take it away from them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Until you both create a new vision, you will not really be able to move forward. For me, I look at it totally differently. I\u2019m like, you\u2019re adding something. You\u2019re adding tons. Let me tell you what you\u2019re adding to them if you were to pull them out of, I don\u2019t know, a bunch of this stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:31]\u00a0You are adding free time into their schedule. You are adding the ability for them to select out of two or three curated options that you have pre-selected what they want. I also see if you were to unify together and you were to say, hey, this is the kind of life we both want to live, we want to have healthy cash flow every month, we want to have a healthy savings account. We don\u2019t want to feel stressed anymore. We want to have a babysitter every so often, etc. So you two get unified.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:11] Then you go to the family and you say, look, we\u2019re going to make some changes in this family. Luckily, they\u2019re young. If they were 15 years old, you\u2019d have a whole different problem on your hands. That\u2019s really hard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:20]\u00a0At 7, 5, and 3, this is quite easy if you two can get aligned. And you say, look, we\u2019re going to have some changes. We need your help. You make it exciting. I need you to help empty the dishwasher, etc. They start taking ownership, so you\u2019re giving them that. You\u2019re giving them responsibility.\u00a0You\u2019re giving them pride.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:36] Meanwhile, mom and dad get time to be together, be unified, be happy, even just hold hands and go for a walk for 10 minutes. Come back, feel rejuvenated, feel connected, kids see their mom and dad smiling. Oh, it\u2019s so beautiful. So that is what I see. I don\u2019t see you taking away swim lessons. I see you giving them all of those things. What do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:04]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I like that. I like that. I like the involvement. I like the working togetherness. I like the partnership of it, less of the division.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:23]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I think I explained it away a lot as it\u2019s just temporary, but the problem with it is just temporary is that at what point does it become permanent?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:34]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0And then you can\u2019t undo.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to put the CSP up on screen. You told me you want them to have skin in the game, free time, responsibility for getting the place on track, have a say in the activities, a place for things, take pride, and on and on, and you\u2019ve lost sight of the marriage. You have an opportunity to change where you spend your money, which affects where you spend your time, your love, your attention. Are you guys ready to take a look at the CSP and make some changes?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:02]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. We\u2019ve got to basically cut everything in half, ballpark. All right. Rent, utilities, insurance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:15]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve already optimized those.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:17]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Those really aren\u2019t going anywhere. We have no debt. If we were to drop let\u2019s say 200 from Target\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:26]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not sure though that any of that is going to make a significant\u2013 if you zero out kid activities, that\u2019s where you see.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It goes from 113% to 101%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:41]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it\u2019s significant.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What did that tell you just now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:50]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0That that\u2019s extremely impactful. That it is a huge\u2013 until this, I really didn\u2019t notice.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:59]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we can drastically cut take out if we scroll down. I know it\u2019s not up there, but that\u2019s in the red also.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And I tell you what, let\u2019s stick with fixed costs for a second. I need you to get these numbers lower. Michelle, where are you? You seem a little down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:27]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. The day to day is chaos. But if I zoom out from that for a few minutes, do I even need to continue the investments?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, let me stop you right there. I understand that you probably have\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:36]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m overwhelmed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But you\u2019re overwhelming yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:40]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Fact.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I want you to listen to me because I\u2019m going to walk you through this step by step. Yes, it\u2019s probably true that you\u2019re over investing. And we can run those calculations, and I can help you figure that out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:51]\u00a0But you need to attack the fire that is burning in your house right now before you go out to the back and prune the rose bushes. The fire that is burning is that you just cut off 100% of kid activities, which we all know is not going to happen. And you\u2019re still at 101% of fixed costs. We need to take it one step at a time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:17]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0What if we tried just dropping 200 from Target, 200 from Amazon? It could probably go more. 200 from groceries.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll do it if you both agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:30]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh yeah. I\u2019d agree in seeing it. Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And that took your fixed cost number from 101% to 94%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:44]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0We could probably realistically trim more from Amazon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:47]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you realistically think that Amazon could drop more than that?<br \/>\n[00:18:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>So couples like you, who have an income like you do not spend $985 a month at Amazon, plus $563 a month at Target, plus $1,030 on groceries, plus $955 on kids\u2019 activities, plus $648 miscellaneous. It doesn\u2019t happen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:03]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Without looking at the detailed things, we could probably chop miscellaneous probably in half.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, you want do to that? Your miscellaneous is $650.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:11]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So if we dropped it, it would have 325.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0325 it is. You feel okay with that, Michelle?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:19]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0No, because it\u2019s not impactful.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. Shouldn\u2019t we at least see? What do you want to do that is impactful? If you don\u2019t want to change 300 bucks a month off of this, then what do you want to do? I\u2019m willing to entertain anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to say it\u2019s an income problem. I don\u2019t want you to yell at me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Look, at your income, maybe it is an income problem, but the fact is you have one income right now and you have three young kids. So unless you\u2019re planning to go get a second income tomorrow, we got to work with what we got, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:59]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You guys are back up to 105% because I added your kids\u2019 activities.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:05]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Back in. Yeah. We were going back and forth. Should the kid activities be in fixed costs or should it be in guilt-free spending? And then we ultimately were like, it doesn\u2019t matter because if something had to go, if tomorrow your income was gone, it would be gone. It would be gone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Kid\u2019s activities. Okay, so technically, they should be in guilt-free spending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:28]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0They could go.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you like to move them down there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:30]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Whether it\u2019s 113% in fixed costs or you take that 10% and throw it down, it still exists.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:41]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Trying to think, how can we drop another 10% to get this down to 80 without touching rent, mortgage, utilities, insurance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:49]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Just to show you what I\u2019m thinking when he says that, so he says to drop it now to get it to 80, but then I\u2019m thinking, but it\u2019s still 80.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, at least get to 80. Then we\u2019ll deal with it then. What\u2019s up with this you guys?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:02]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like you guys are playing small, and honestly, it\u2019s wasting your own time.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is what happens when you let your spending get out of control. It becomes incredibly difficult to downsize because the human mind convinces you that everything you have accumulated is absolutely necessary. Did you hear how glum both of them sounded? That\u2019s normal human nature when you take something away from someone. You can see it when you take a little toy away from a baby, and you can see it when you talk about cutting just $200 per month from their Target bill.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:38]\u00a0Now, the best scenario is to never get into this situation in the first place. But if you are, come up with a new vision and cut mercilessly. Do not prolong the pain. The next conversation with Michelle I find absolutely fascinating. Notice her psychological resistance to making changes.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so Michelle, I guess I need you to be constructive here because you\u2019re telling me all the reasons that this won\u2019t work. You are winning, but you\u2019re ultimately losing. You\u2019re winning at us doing nothing, but you are losing at the ultimate battle here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:11]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m really staring at the entire column.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re staring\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:17]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0At that whole column of numbers and fixed costs, like what can drop aside from the kids\u2019 activities.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I give you some feedback?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:26]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, please.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0First of all, you are thinking, nothing will work, and that is the entire energy that you\u2019re communicating right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:34]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0This is where the stress lies. It feels like none of the small changes are going to make a big enough overall change, and yet it\u2019s a bunch of small things that have added up to make it this bad to begin with.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Michelle, you have a lot of all or nothing thinking, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:51]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I don\u2019t see it actually getting to 60, so it feels like wasted effort.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If I can\u2019t do it perfectly, I might as well not do it at all.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:05]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It wasn\u2019t like this until the income dropped. So in my mind, because it\u2019s temporary the goal is to slow the burn until I can make money again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, well, slowing the burn, you could slow the burn at 63% or even 70%. You can\u2019t slow the burn at 90 or 100%. So you may have that belief, but 90% is not sustainable at all. And it puts you at immense risk because if Ryan loses his job, you two are done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:45]\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I see it as an opportunity here. It\u2019s like, okay, we can do this. We can get on our feet. We don\u2019t have any debt. We have reasonable price housing for now. Let\u2019s figure out how to really dig deep and build a healthy family culture without spending a lot of money. We could do it. And if we could do that, then when we start to earn more money, oh my God, we are going to be in a phenomenal place.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:14]\u00a0I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s how I think about it. I see it as a challenge. I see it as an opportunity. Michelle, what do you think? You don\u2019t feel it? It\u2019s okay if you don\u2019t. Tell me the truth. You don\u2019t have to tell just what I think. I want to hear what you think.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:32]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know I think because it hasn\u2019t felt catastrophic\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now that\u2019s honest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:40]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0So I don\u2019t see a need to put out a fire I don\u2019t see.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s honest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:51]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t feel the heat from it. I see it, but I don\u2019t feel the heat from it yet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s interesting that you were the one who approached me and you told me you worried constantly about money. You\u2019re always feeling bad. You have these physical feelings about money. And yet, when we are here actually making changes, you\u2019re the one who seems to be the most resistant.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:14]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t feel resistant to it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t think you\u2019re being resistant to the process of cutting your spending?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:21]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I don\u2019t see it as realistic. I would have to see it in practice during actual months, is this actually doable? It\u2019s very easy to say, let\u2019s chop 200 off of Target. I have to see in practice if it\u2019s actually\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t think chopping 200 off Target is possible?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:45]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0$200 off 763 a month for a family of five, not 10. Five.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:55]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. These feel like such small changes. They feel so small. I see the kid activities as being impactful. It\u2019s very hard for me to see a couple of hundred here and there being impactful, which is why I\u2019m quiet and watching.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because if I don\u2019t get to 60, then I\u2019m a failure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:19]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d rather not try it and keep it at 113, because at least I can spend everything I want on the kids and I don\u2019t feel restricted and they can be happy and I can have some flexibility, versus 60 where I would have to crunch and give up everything and we still wouldn\u2019t hit it. Is that right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:41]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:48]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think any progress is better than no progress. So although I think 60 would just be really, really, really hard, if we can get it to 75, it\u2019s way better than 113, way better. Even if we get it to 80, that\u2019s way better than 113.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ask her if she believes you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:09]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you believe me? Do you believe me that we can get it to 80? Do you think 80 is doable?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:18]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s take a quick pause to support our sponsors<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:24]\u00a0Now back to Michelle and Ryan.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s recalibrate. We\u2019re trying to create a new culture for our family around money. In order to do that, we have to make some difficult decisions. It\u2019s going to feel uncomfortable to us. We still probably need to make those decisions. Let\u2019s try. Here we are on fixed costs. What would you like to tackle next?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:45]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0So what if we move the kid activities to guilt-free spending?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So your kids\u2019 activities are gone from your fixed cost. You\u2019re now at 90%. Okay. Again, this is good. We\u2019ll deal with one problem at a time. Right now. We\u2019re dealing with the fire. So you\u2019re at 90%. Go ahead. What do you want to change next?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:03]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s try to cut Amazon in half. What was the original? 1,185. So what if we dropped that? Let\u2019s cut that down to 600.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Done. You\u2019re at 85% now. Can I give you a couple of hints?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:21]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Couples who are at 85% of fixed costs do not have $325 in miscellaneous expenses ever.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:29]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s take that to 50.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have miscellaneous 50 bucks. You\u2019re now at 81% fixed cost. Now I go back and I look at the groceries. $1,030. Who buys the groceries?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:39]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Michelle.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:40]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Mostly me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So Michelle, when you go to shop for groceries, you don\u2019t have an amount that you\u2019re targeting to spend, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:47]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0No, always a list of what I\u2019m getting and I stick to that but never an amount.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What if you had an amount?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:56]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve lived it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe it\u2019s time to live it again. Do you see what the resistance to this really is? I lived that lifestyle. I don\u2019t want to go back there because it feels bad because, as you told me, you didn\u2019t have a good experience with family. Your parents let you down, etc. So you want to do anything to avoid that, but the truth is the very place you need to go to get your money under control is to set constraints for yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:26]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Sucks but it\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sometimes we got to walk through the fire. That\u2019s what this is. So since you are the primary shopper for the family, I need you to tell me, what number could you realistically go and get groceries for the family on? I want you to be really thoughtful with your answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:51]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a01,000 is my go-to. If we\u2019re being honest and realistic, 1,000 is where I go to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, great. 1,000 it is. But let\u2019s now talk about Target. Can\u2019t double up. We can\u2019t have 1,500 bucks a month on groceries.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:07]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m just looking at some of other Target things. Snacks for the kids. So I\u2019m looking at pretzels, pretzels, granola bars, more pretzels. They like pretzels. We could definitely cut some of that stuff out. They don\u2019t need one, two, three bags of pretzels bought on July 26th.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask something? Just out of curiosity, when was the last time you said to the kids, like, we\u2019re done with pretzels for the week. We\u2019re not getting any more. This is how much you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:42]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Never. It was, we\u2019re out. All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:46]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Let me put more on the thing. I\u2019ve never said that because we were out of snacks, part of it. And to be honest is, again, I shift back to survival. A little bit of mental sanity when they\u2019re screaming, I\u2019m hungry. I want a snack. I\u2019m hungry. I want a snack. But a lot of this, I\u2019m going to call it junk food as a whole\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ryan, look at me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:12]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Can be cut.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re spinning right now, just a lot of this. I don\u2019t think you guys are truly hearing what I\u2019m saying. What\u2019s the lesson right now? What are you hearing? You\u2019ve never told your kids, we\u2019re out of pretzels for the week. Not once. They\u2019re seven years old. What\u2019s the lesson?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:36]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0They don\u2019t know how to go without.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. And you don\u2019t know how to say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:41]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Where do you think this goes 10 years from now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:46]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Goes like this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re 17 years old. They\u2019re not just throwing a tantrum. They\u2019re now entitled, spoiled. And where do you think it goes when they\u2019re, let\u2019s say, 27 or 35? What do you think happens to them as it relates to money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:02]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re grasshoppers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:04]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, they\u2019re financial disasters because that\u2019s the way they were brought up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s right. And it started with a bag of pretzels.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:14]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0And it\u2019s not like they don\u2019t go without other snacks. It\u2019s not like\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, it\u2019s freaking chocolate chips, Greek yogurt. What? That\u2019s nice. That\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:23]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0No, it\u2019s the pretzels. I\u2019m trying to think of\u2013 I can\u2019t believe I\u2019m drawing a blank.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ryan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:30]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0They have other stuff. Yeah, is\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s that you don\u2019t say no. And more importantly, it\u2019s that the two of you aren\u2019t actually communicating about where you want your money to go. It\u2019s just going everywhere. It\u2019s not even about the CSP. We still need to finish this, but it\u2019s about the two of you deciding, what are our boundaries? What is part of our Rich Life, and what is not?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you see how the CSP is not really the issue? The real issues are much, much deeper. Michelle feels like she has no real agency over her life. They both have an inability to say no. In fact, they\u2019ve never told their kids, no more snacks. And they have no real vision of money. It\u2019s just there to get spent.\u00a0And with kids, you will spend every last cent you bring in unless you have a powerful, compelling vision.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:25]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I feel like because the income now is way more significant than the income was when I was a kid and yet I still have to be the same way. I feel like back then, though, it wasn\u2019t that it was intentional. There was no choice. It\u2019s just, that\u2019s how it was. And now that has to be intentional. That\u2019s a very hard shift.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When you were a kid, Amazon did not exist. I can guarantee your parents were not spending $3,000 a month on random groceries. No way. But when I now ask you, you\u2019re like, oh, we absolutely need it. We need these freaking chocolate chips. They are the backbone of our family.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:15]\u00a0And they\u2019re not. And what I\u2019m trying to get you to see is they\u2019re not. They\u2019re actually causing more trouble than you realize. Take all the pretzels you would have spent and you two could have gone on a nice date night. That\u2019s what I mean when I say Rich Life versus not Rich Life. Spend extravagantly on things you love, but cut costs mercilessly on the things you don\u2019t. Okay, so can we continue on Target? At $563 a month, there\u2019s no way. What do you want to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:48]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we drop it to half, 3 something, something? 380.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You want to?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:57]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. 380. All right, we\u2019re down to 79%! Guys, we\u2019re in the 7s. All right, we\u2019re getting there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:06]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:07]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good. Yeah, let\u2019s move on to some other stuff and then I think we can make some changes. All right. I\u2019m skipping down to guilt-free spending. All right, let\u2019s do kids\u2019 activities. What do you want to do about that? This is the hard one, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:20]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I\u2019ve said this before. If we were forced to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All I need is the number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:33]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s one or the other. So I figure 450 if they drop to one activity.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so from $960 to 450.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:42]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Figure 450 is a good\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. 450. Okay, cool. Stores says 186.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:53]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0That was like\u2013 what was that? The random\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:56]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that was the random\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:59]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0We were accounting for the stuff that didn\u2019t qualify in the other categories. So we gave it its own.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How do I say this? If you\u2019re trying to make massive financial progress, there is no more of that. It can\u2019t happen. But of course it\u2019s your money. You\u2019re going to do what you\u2019re going to do. But if it were me, I would never do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:24]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we could definitely drop that probably to at least 100.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019ll notice that I\u2019m dragging them along this process, and at each step of the way, they are resisting me. They\u2019re trying to negotiate with me. They\u2019re totally indecisive. And that is a big sign that they\u2019re not actually going to do this. Frankly, it\u2019s starting to get a little frustrating. Ryan and Michelle cannot afford novelty shopping, and families in this situation do not have hundreds of dollar. They randomly spend on miscellaneous items. I know because I grew up in a family with immigrant parents and one income. It\u2019s time to get much more serious about their spending changes.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Neither of you want to close doors. Have you noticed that? There\u2019s all this cajoling and negotiating. Well, we could take this away. But what about that? Guys, you\u2019re not in that position.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:16]\u00a0And actually, that very attitude is what had led you to having all this chaos in the house. Definitive answers are just like, yes or no, black or white. Not like, maybe. Not like, oh, we can figure it out. It\u2019s like, no. Mom and I have decided that\u2019s not what we\u2019re doing. Or dad and I have decided that\u2019s not what we\u2019re doing. That\u2019s it. But you two have to be aligned with it in your own head, and then with each other. And that\u2019s what you guys told me you wanted. You wanted simplicity and clarity. So that\u2019s what I\u2019m trying to help you get.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:49]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0So let\u2019s chop that to zero.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. Love hearing that. Thank you. Take that to zero. Beautiful. Okay, good, good, good. Entertainment at 264? What\u2019s this? I thought y\u2019all had some Subscriptions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:04]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Again, it averages for the year. So that\u2019s probably little day trips that we\u2019ve done out of town. Take kids to a theme park here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so what do you guys think of that, now knowing what we spent the last four hours talking about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:23]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0We can\u2019t do theme parks. Unfortunately, there\u2019s no money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:29]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Take it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Whoa. Okay, let\u2019s take it out. Let\u2019s see what happens. I like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:35]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel bad, but yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I feel good, so if going to go with one of our feelings, let\u2019s go with mine. Zero. Okay. Take out\u2013 is at $490 a month? Somebody please change this number for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:50]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0So what if we cut it to pizza once a month and it\u2019s $30 for takeout?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That is reasonable. That is what I would expect for a couple who goes, we are in a rebuilding phase. We need to chop it all down. We need to get healthy financial habits.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:15]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Plus we\u2019re cutting out the McDonald\u2019s drive-through stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love this. Ryan, you are the\u00a0fucking\u00a0man. I love this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:25]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It wasn\u2019t just the pizza that was in there, but you realize that\u2019s no coffee runs on your break. Because that was all takeout. Everything labeled with a Dunkin or a Starbucks pizza, McDonald\u2019s, all of it. That\u2019s all takeout in there. Remember that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re good with that, Ryan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:49]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re talking\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:49]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0I have to be. Right now I have to be.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good answer. I\u2019m taking this down to 30. I love it. I love how aggressive you guys are being now. This is amazing. Oh, wow. We got something going on here. Your guilt-free spending right now is at 6%. Now that\u2019s quite low. Usually I recommend 20 to 35%, but for a couple in your situation, I would recommend that number be lower.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:16]\u00a0My back of the napkin number would have said something like 10%. In your case, you\u2019re at 6, but you also spend $2,000 a month when you combine groceries, Amazon, and Target. So that\u2019s part of your guilt-free spending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:35]\u00a0So far your CSP says you\u2019re at fixed cost of 79%, which is still high, but it\u2019s way better than 113. Your investments are at 14%. Savings are at 1% , and guilt-free spending is at 6%.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. 6% guilt-free spending is restrictive, and it\u2019s hard, especially for a couple that\u2019s used to spending on whatever they want with essentially no constraints. Now, if you want to cut back on your guilt-free spending, here\u2019s what I would do. I would pick your biggest two discretionary expenses.\u00a0Usually this is eating out and one other category. I would target cutting that spending by 50% within six months.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:14]\u00a0That way it gives you a gradual approach to sustainable change. In their case, I might target six weeks because there\u2019s actually a lot of urgency. Now, I like this gradual approach\u2013 50% over time.\u00a0Six weeks, six months because you\u2019re not going from 100 to 0. You\u2019re reducing eating out, for example, by one to two times per week, stabilizing, then do it again next week.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So Michelle, tell me how much you calculated you\u2019re going to have if you continue on your current path.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:47]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0You want it all?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me the number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:48]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0So that one, the 467 should by retirement be, I think it was about 2.2, for that one alone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s 22 million, so everyone knows.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:00]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, sorry. So that one\u2019s 2.2 million, drawn down at about 4%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That first pension is going to draw about $88,000 a year in income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:09]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Then another one, which is basically duplicate, that\u2019s another $88,000. Okay, that\u2019s really good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:14]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll be doubling our income at retirement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s crazy, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:18]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0And that doesn\u2019t include Social Security. I actually mapped that out today. If we start drawing social security at age 67, I think mine was 1,400. His was 3,500. It was about 5,000 even a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you two will be having a very high income in retirement, which is great. But the irony is that right now you\u2019re underwater. So shall we fix that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:44]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, please.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s quite amazing. That actually opens up a lot of possibilities. That tells me, theoretically, you could stop contributing to your 403b, theoretically. That\u2019s an extra 433 bucks a month in income, or $5,000 a year. You could also stop contributing 1,167 in post-tax retirement. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:14]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0I just liked that it was tax free, although I did calculate that too. It seems not smart to not invest in a tax deferred account, an account that\u2019s going to grow tax-free. It doesn\u2019t seem like a smart decision to not take advantage of that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Does it seem like a smart decision to spend 113% on fixed costs?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:37]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back. After this short break.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:42]\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think you see the big picture of money. But you\u2019re really good at each individual silo. Like the calculations, you just rattled them off, and your calculations were all correct. And you even factored in Social Security, which almost nobody does. So great. Amazing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:05]\u00a0Definitely top 5% of people that I talk to. You\u2019re dialed in on these smaller areas. You know he spent this much on Amazon, but I spent this much. You know that. But the big picture is, when it comes to your spending, you\u2019re spending way too much. And when it comes to your investments, you already have enough if you were to literally stop today.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:32]\u00a0What is it? What\u2019s missing? It\u2019s the confidence to be able to zoom up, draw the conclusion, and be decisive about what needs to happen. That\u2019s why you\u2019re looking for me to tell you what to do. But you already know the answer. What is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:51]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0That in retirement we\u2019re set, and right now we\u2019re screwed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s exactly right. So now I want you to tell me exactly what to do with your CSP.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:02]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Take it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you want to do with it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:04]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s got to go back into net monthly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s call it 350.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:10]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Watch what happens to your fixed cost number. Right now it\u2019s at 79%. Whoa. What\u2019d that number say now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:18]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, I didn\u2019t think it was going to impact that much. It\u2019s 76%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I\u2019m impressed so far. Let\u2019s go down to your post-tax investments. 1,167. What do you want to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:31]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Take it out. We don\u2019t need it. We need it now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, you have 135,000. What the\u00a0fuck\u00a0is all that money doing there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:39]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s what I\u2019m saying. It\u2019s high.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If I were in your situation, I would fund the next two years of date nights because that is priority number one in this relationship. Would you agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:54]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:54]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fund it. You have the money sitting in savings. Fund it. Give yourself a nice little thing\u2013 100 bucks each time. Right there that money is funded. It\u2019s put aside in a separate account. You can draw from it every single week. So I would definitely keep six to eight months of savings just as an emergency fund.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:28]\u00a0You might put some money aside for certain kids\u2019 activities where you\u2019re like, this is really important. Swim stuff, etc. You could fund it. If it were me, I would probably keep an extra, I don\u2019t know, 20 grand or so, just like in\u2013 we don\u2019t know what\u2019s going to happen here. It\u2019s not an emergency fund. We\u2019re probably going to use this for something, etc.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:05]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0So your struggle, that\u2019s my struggle right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Michelle, the answers are right here in front of you. You know them. I have total confidence in you. You know these. And what makes it exciting for me now, we\u2019re really polishing this beautiful painting that the two of you created, is that the two of you get to do this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:29]\u00a0And actually, watching Ryan,\u00a0fuck.\u00a0I was very impressed, Ryan. I\u2019m going to take a second to tell you too. We came on here. A little bit into the conversation, I learned like, oh my God, you\u2019re overspending tons on your kids. And I was like, oh man, this is going to be tough. It\u2019s very hard to get parents who spend a lot on their kids to stop.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:48]\u00a0And then we started looking at the CSP and I was extremely pleasantly surprised you just came to life and you were like, let\u2019s chop it. Let\u2019s chop it. We got to stop this. I got to stop this. And you played ball. That was amazing. Then I turned to Michelle. Michelle, you rise up when it comes to the investment stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:07]\u00a0You two are a good team in your individual domains. And the thing is, you could become an unbeatable team if y\u2019all work together. I can see it. I don\u2019t know if you can see it, but I can see it. And I want you guys to do this together. It will change the trajectory of your family\u2019s future for generations.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0In my opinion, the biggest breakthrough happened when they finally realized that they actually have control over their spending. That is when they got decisive and they started to cut things rapidly and importantly together. It\u2019s a nice cherry on top that they are over-investing so they can reallocate their cash.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:52]\u00a0But the real issue and the one they need to work on, regardless of their income and retirement savings, is that they don\u2019t have a vision of a Rich Life, and they can\u2019t say no to their kids. In other words, they\u2019re not using their money consciously. Let\u2019s see what Michelle had to say in her follow up video.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:09]\u00a0<strong>Michelle:<\/strong>\u00a0My biggest surprise was just how much of an issue the 113% fixed cost really is. I think it felt like such a small issue because of the safety net of our savings account, but really we have to reverse that now before it becomes more difficult to do. I was also very surprised to learn that the CSP really is a direct extension of how we feel right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:26]\u00a0To lead me into my takeaways, firstly, the CSP really is as chaotic as we feel right now. There\u2019s almost no intention behind our spending. And while we didn\u2019t really notice that, it was glaringly obvious to Ramit simply by looking over our CSP. Ryan and I were nowhere to be found on there. We had line items for Target, Amazon, and kid activities, and yet there was\u00a0no money directed toward our marriage.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:48]\u00a0I\u2019ve heard Ramit say many times before that if it doesn\u2019t show up on your CSP or on your calendar, that it isn\u2019t happening. And that\u2019s so true. As for the changes we plan to make, if it\u2019s important to us, then it becomes a line item in the CSP and that it gets put in the calendar. And first up is date nights. We\u2019ll tighten up our overall spending, especially when it comes to takeout groceries, Target, and Amazon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:09]\u00a0We have several different accounts held at three different banks, and I\u2019m realizing after our call that that\u2019s yet another symptom of the overall chaos.\u00a0We\u2019ll be fixing that one within the month. We will pull back on retirement contributions since that\u2019s pretty much fully funded. We\u2019ll take some of our savings and move it into a brokerage account and then we\u2019ll put the rest of the savings into a high-yield savings account and use that interest to help fund kid activities, the ones that they choose to keep.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now Ryan\u2019s follow up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:35]\u00a0<strong>Ryan:<\/strong>\u00a0One of my biggest surprises was at the end when we started talking about the savings and investments and that we could buffer our spending a little bit within reason and use some of that savings to invest it to try to get to some of our more immediate goals. This is really a behavioral and psychological change more than anything else. It\u2019s going to take some hard work to shift that current mindset.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:55]\u00a0A couple of my key action steps is to really cut in those areas that we talked about, particularly in the area of dining out. I really think that that money is much better off being reinvested into our marriage and our family to really get us in a good place. So thank you again for talking with us.\u00a0I really appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Michelle, 42, Ryan, 43, return for a deep dive into their Conscious Spending Plan. They spend $763 a month on Target, $1,185 a month on Amazon, and $1,230 on groceries\u2014carrying a fixed-costs percentage of 113%. Drastic changes are needed, but Michelle isn\u2019t convinced anything can be done to save their outlook. This episode is brought [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118868","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118868","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118868"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118868\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118868"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118868"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}