{"id":118890,"date":"2024-07-23T15:25:06","date_gmt":"2024-07-23T19:25:06","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118890"},"modified":"2026-02-23T15:27:09","modified_gmt":"2026-02-23T19:27:09","slug":"166-christina-noah","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/166-christina-noah\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 166. \u201cI\u2019m embarrassed\u2014we hid $10,000 cash in our closet for 3 years\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"YouTube video player\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/3plueFFhP3M?si=SwPyO0L7Jnj50519\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/6nfGr2R2ZRG6qQfXGszFOf?utm_source=generator&amp;theme=0\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Christina is 37 and Noah 35. They\u2019re married with one young son and another on the way. They earn a very high income, but their decisions are clouded by stress over money and over the future. Noah plays dream crusher while Christina spins them down a rabbit hole of negative outcomes.<\/p>\n<p>This episode is brought to you by:<\/p>\n<p>Shopify | Sign up for a $1 per month trial period at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/shopify.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/shopify.com\/ramit<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit<\/a>\u00a0for 20% off.<\/p>\n<p>Trust &amp; Will | Secure your assets and protect your loved ones. Get 10% off plus free shipping on your estate plan documents by visiting\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/trustandwill.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/trustandwill.com\/ramit<\/a><\/p>\n<p>LMNT | Right now, LMNT is offering 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. This is a great way to try all 8 flavors. Get yours at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT\">https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>Next Level Wardrobe | Dress like an elevated version of you. Take a free styling quiz at\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/nextlevelwardrobe.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/nextlevelwardrobe.com\/ramit<\/a>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Tools mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<br \/>\n<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\"><br \/>\nConscious Spending Plan<br \/>\n<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0What if I want to buy a Gucci purse for $1,000? I don\u2019t want to feel guilty because that was money I saved.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:06]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Whereas I\u2019m just like, let me just amass as much as money as possible and just avoid it and just forget about it. It\u2019s for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meet Christina and Noah. They\u2019re in their mid-30s. She constantly worries about money, and he plays the role of the dream crusher in their relationship. Now, later in today\u2019s conversation, you\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0hear me get really frustrated when they continue repeating a story about their finances that is simply not true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:09]\u00a0They\u2019re playing small. The question is, can they actually change the roles that they have created for each other and for their money?\u00a0Make sure to subscribe on YouTube and check out all the behind-the-scenes footage that we air in today\u2019s episode. Now, let\u2019s meet Christina and Noah.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:28]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I had just toured a facility, and I loved it and I thought it was great. It was everything on paper that I thought we needed for our future kid. So I addressed it like, Noah, can we send our future baby to this facility? And he was like, okay, that sounds great. But I knew that it was alarming because I knew the cost.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:52]\u00a0And so then I brought up, well, I\u2019ve done the math of this, and the math is very alarming because not only is our son\u2019s care going to go up, our son who\u2019s already three. His is going to go up a few hundred dollars a month which equates to a few thousand, but now the baby\u2019s cost are several thousand more, of course. And so collectively, we\u2019re spending What, it seems like two thirds of my income on child care, I find that very alarming.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you use that word?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:21]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I probably did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And what did he say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:24]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t remember that exact moment, but he probably deferred, like, let\u2019s talk about this later. He wants to sit down and visualize the numbers. He wants to sit down and visualize the situation. And so he wanted the details in a separate scenario, not when we\u2019re having dinner, not when our son\u2019s awake, and he\u2019s distracted.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:41]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I find it very annoying. I only have so much energy being pregnant, and I\u2019m trying to get a lot accomplished in a short amount of time. This facility has a long wait list. We need to jump on our spot and reserve our spot for the baby and for our son. And if we don\u2019t do that soon, we\u2019re going to lose the spot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So there was a sense of urgency for you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:02]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you tell him that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:04]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And how did he respond?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:06]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Still let\u2019s wait. So there\u2019s always a sense of like, everything is urgent to you, and it\u2019s not urgent to me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what\u2019d you decide to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:14]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, do nothing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Is this a common dynamic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:18]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You bring up something. He says, let\u2019s talk about it. You do later, and then you don\u2019t make a decision.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:27]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Essentially, like I\u2019m always waiting for him to finally have that conversation. And once we finally have the conversation, it still results in no action.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:36]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s obviously a little bit here, a little yellow flag. Is it too expensive? Can we afford this? And that\u2019s like, all right, well, have we looked at our other options? And it\u2019s more of the analysis paralysis where, hey, let\u2019s have a conversation. Let\u2019s look at multiple options. Let\u2019s not buy the first car on the lot because it\u2019s shiny. That is where the difference is, like, you will come from this, I think we should spend our money. Whereas I\u2019m just like, let me just amass as much as money as possible and just avoid it and just forget about it. It\u2019s for tomorrow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:06]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t really value spending money a ton. I grew up frugal parents, and they didn\u2019t spend money. And I think you learn that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And what about you, Christina? When it comes to spending money, do you like spending money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:18]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I do like it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And would you agree that Noah doesn\u2019t really need to spend a lot of money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. And I\u2019ll caveat. I think equally we\u2019re almost similarly paired that neither of us is a major spender or a major saver. Or at least I don\u2019t feel that we are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s that word? Feel? What is that? Why are you looking down right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:41]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know how you\u2019re going to interpret all this, but I feel that we don\u2019t\u2013 I don\u2019t know if we save enough. I feel like we spend too much, but I don\u2019t know how other people would view that. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait a minute. What? You just said I don\u2019t spend that much, and then 10 seconds later you said, do we spend too much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:03]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. How can we afford our life? Have we overextended ourselves financially that we can\u2019t afford our lives? Is something wrong with us? What are we doing wrong?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you mean? You don\u2019t know?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:14]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So let me give you a great example. I can go shopping and easily spend $200 to $300 on me and my son collectively, or just myself, and I don\u2019t overthink it, and in my head I\u2019m like, we should be able to spend this much money. In some ways, I wish he was less frugal, and then in other ways, I\u2019m so grateful he\u2019s frugal, and I mentally wonder, do I need a change?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:36]\u00a0Do I need someone to check me and be like, you\u2019re overspending. You think you have this kind of money, but if you take the amount you make and the amount we make and then you deduct how much it costs to live and taxes in a high cost living area, can you really afford this? When your friend says let\u2019s go to dinner and let\u2019s spend 70 dollars, is that cool, or is that too much money? Because then we\u2019re also spending money in other areas. And I have a beautiful spreadsheet that you probably would hate. Too many line items in my Excel spreadsheet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How many line items? Just tell us. You know you\u2019re proud of it. Come on. It\u2019s on your phone, probably on a shortcut. How many line items?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:15]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s probably 30 to 40.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Noah?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:19]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to know if my understanding of our finances is oddly skewed towards just not spending money and if that\u2019s more detrimental, or if we can actually afford the life that we\u2019re trying to build right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:35]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0And what if we have an off year? We\u2019re only in our 30s. So what if we have some off years in our 30s or 40s? And what if we have an off year in our 50s? Or what if for some reason either of us don\u2019t get to work till 68 years old and then all of a sudden I get laid off at 62 and I can\u2019t get a new job? And then that retirement number is, I\u2019m starting at 62 and not at 68.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:56]\u00a0So those are bigger things that I process often that the fear keeps me going. I need to be successful enough that I have a job at 50. I have a job at 60. I\u2019m crushing it. He\u2019s crushing it. And there\u2019s a lack of fear involved.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is fear your motivator?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:16]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Because I\u2019m the driver, I feel like. I feel like I\u2019m off in the driver\u2019s seat.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. You\u2019re the driver. That\u2019s your role.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:22]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think. I think he would agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And if you\u2019re the driver, what is he?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:26]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019s the passenger.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fair, Noah?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:29]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, the wheels. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019s in the car.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you\u2019re deciding to take the metaphor at its face value, why are we here? Because shouldn\u2019t the driver decide where you\u2019re going to go?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:41]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I mentally wonder though, like, am I making bad decisions? Is this normal? Is everyone spending this much money of their income in their paycheck? It feels heavy. It feels like we\u2019re spending too much. And maybe other people are cool with that and just overspending their budget and not saving and investing a ton, but it feels like we\u2019re doing something wrong.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:03]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve never been concerned that I\u2019ll be able to make ends meet, pay my bills. At the end of the day, I think I\u2019ve been fortunate from that angle. I think we started not making very much money. And so now I know what I really need in life. I\u2019m like, I don\u2019t really need a ton. I think there\u2019s that aspect of providing for your family and for your children, and I think that can be somewhat of a gender role too, but I want to be able to provide enough for them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:30]\u00a0But I also want to provide where at least it\u2019s on par if not better as time goes on. So I wanted my sons to be able to have at least as good a life as I had, if not\u2013 and I don\u2019t want them to be like, hey, by the way, I have to pay all this money out for college loans or something. Way to go, mom and dad, thanks for setting me up to fail kind of thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did your parents pay for your college?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:54]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0They did. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:55]\u00a0Okay.\u00a0Some early clues. It\u2019s interesting that Christina describes herself as the driver, but then she doubts herself. That\u2019s not a driver. You can either be the driver and have the confidence and competence to know what you\u2019re doing and where you\u2019re going, or you can be a partner, but you can\u2019t do a little bit of each.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:14]\u00a0I notice a lot of circular thinking as well. Did you catch it? The easiest example was when she said, \u201cI don\u2019t feel we spend a lot,\u201d and then just seconds later she said, \u201cI feel like we spend too much.\u201d Also, I noticed that Noah has a different money lens. He simply wants to spend less.\u00a0Let me\u00a0keep digging.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:36]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0When we got married, we combined our incomes, and for a while I knew there was another bank account that Christina had one that was sitting out there, but it just was sitting there. And then I think we watch a documentary on Netflix about Wells Fargo or something. And she\u2019s like, I have the sick.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:57]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I have this money sitting here. And then I think you went in and you look to your account and you\u2019re like, oh man, I\u2019ve been hit by all of these fee overcharges. And I\u2019m like, well, that makes sense because your money has been sitting there. And I remember finally this money came out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what happened?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:12]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0The money sat in a paper bag or plastic bag or some sort of bag. Oh, one of the reusable bags for three years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What? This is cash?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:22]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a010,000 in cash.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back after this short break.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:26]\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:29]\u00a0Okay. I did not\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:29]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0And it just sat in this bookshelf thing that have there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why? Why was it there and not in a bank? And why are you covering your face right now, Christina? What the hell is happening?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:39]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s shameful. It\u2019s ridiculous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is your money. And you took it out from Wells Fargo because they suck, but you kept it in a bag.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:49]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It was one of those line items. I know I need to do this. I know I need to do this, but I\u2019ll just focus on our month-to-month spending and try not to spend too much while we\u2019re going through COVID. Was it losing money? Maybe it was losing 35 cents a month, which is dumb. And eventually, let\u2019s call it 2021, I took it out. I was embarrassed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah, all right. So you avoided it. So then Noah, you are at home and you\u2019re like, hey, knock, knock, knock. Let\u2019s talk about this money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:22]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0And a lot of it stems back to that, we have this bag of cash here that somebody could steal. If our building burned down, that money\u2019s gone. At minimum, let\u2019s put it in some ability to make money in some way, shape, or form.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:38]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0What if I want to buy a Gucci purse for $1,000? I don\u2019t want to feel guilty because that was money I saved, and I want to spend that thousand dollars on a nice Gucci purse and not feel any negative feelings about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s fair. Did you ever have that conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:55]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think I did. Yeah, we did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:57]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0So I was the one who was hesitant, wanted to spend it, but also what to do with it, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Christina resisting putting it in the bank?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:05]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why? How long did this conversation go on back in the\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:09]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, probably a few years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you see any similarities between you waiting and having conversations for years with Noah waiting and wanting to talk about childcare in a different conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:28]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are the similarities? Did you just realize that for the first time?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:34]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I like to not see that side of myself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really? What side is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:40]<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:40]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Not addressing a big concern.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:44]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s the avoidance side of my personality. I think I usually like to hit things head on, address sit, fix it, and move on to the next problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Except for when?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:54]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t see a solution being made.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. If you had to describe the primary financial challenge that both of you face, what would it be in one sentence?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:13]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Decision fatigue.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you confident with money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:16]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I\u2019m not. I almost wonder like, oh, I should pull it back. Maybe we can\u2019t afford 1.1 million-dollar house. Maybe we really should max afford a 900k home.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So if that\u2019s the case, why not just do that? Let\u2019s pull back a little bit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Because that\u2019s not the home I really want. So it\u2019s like I want the Gucci purse. I want the nicer home. I want to be able to go to shows when I want and to go on the vacation, not a crazy, but I want to be able to live this Rich Life, but then I feel guilty for it. And then I also wonder if I\u2019m overspending in my Rich Life area that I really should be saving and investing for because if I run the numbers, there\u2019s a lot of money that needs to be made to live our life like down the road.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you say you know your numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:09]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. If you know your numbers, then you\u2019re asking me, can we afford this couch or this childcare or this house? Technically, shouldn\u2019t you be able to find out the answer from CSP?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:19]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what\u2019s missing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s missing is the variables of, for one, our rent just went up, not a grand, but if you add utilities and all that, that just went up very recently. Let\u2019s call it a grand a month. That\u2019s 12k a year. Then you add in another child in the mix, that\u2019s another 30k a year. So if I\u2019m calculating for the next six months alone, that\u2019s 42k more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:49]\u00a0So what we might\u2019ve been spending on a vacation or clothes or whatever, that\u2019s 42K allocated more towards other fixed expenses, so to speak. And it makes our fixed expenses a really high portion of our income, and then it makes me go, okay, we have to cut back. Okay, so we have to be people who go to garage sales, buy used toys, or buy used clothes, or we don\u2019t buy a lot of new things in this season of life. And that\u2019s okay. And I think we can be frugal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m with you so far. What\u2019s the problem? Everything you\u2019re saying sounds right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:18]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s a disconnect of wanting to be hyper frugal. Okay, if we make this amount of income now. Again, the fear of, like, we don\u2019t know what\u2019s to come in our late 30s, and 40s, and 50s. What if we spend the max now of our income? We save, invest, but we\u2019re spending a lot, and then we get to a point where I lose my job at 55, and now we don\u2019t have enough money amassed for that future. So then I would regret, did I really need that Gucci purse? Did I really need to send my kid to that top daycare? Did I really need to send my kid\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you find that you talk in circles a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:54]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you decisive about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:57]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I don\u2019t think so.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s frustrating, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:02]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Because we spend a lot of mental energy, a lot of mental energy. I\u2019d like to feel that what we make is enough, enough to live the lifestyle I want to live. I practically, on paper, when we live it out, it feels like we\u2019re not living the life I want to live.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe you don\u2019t make enough money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:21]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. That\u2019s what I mean.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that the problem?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think so.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so make more money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:26]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. But easier said than done getting the raise, and then like, okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think that that\u2019s really the problem, that you\u2019re just making $50,000 too little?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:35]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think I was conditioned to think this is normal life. Here\u2019s the normal life on the platter. This is what a normal lifestyle looks like. And here I am becoming an adult, or I\u2019ve become an adult. I\u2019m now in my mid to late 30s. And I look at it. I\u2019m like, it\u2019s really freaking hard to attain this. I\u2019m proud of myself in some ways, and I\u2019m proud of my husband, and many other ways, I\u2019m like, I feel like we\u2019re just skirting by.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Money is deeply emotional. It\u2019s deeply political, but sometimes you just need to take an honest look at the numbers. Here they are. Assets, $50,000; investments, $653,000; savings, $160,000; debt, 0; net worth in their mid-30s, $863,815.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:28]\u00a0I don\u2019t think you\u2019re just skirting by. You have over half a million dollars invested.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:32]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, but for our age and our incomes, it\u2019s not three times. I\u2019m supposed to have three times my income at 40.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Who told you that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:39]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0My portfolio.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:41]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Anything online would say that. They\u2019d like, by 40, you should have your income times three and that much invested.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Who said that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:47]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Fidelity.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fidelity did not say you specifically should have three times your income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:55]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0They have a little car, and it says, here you are, and here\u2019s where you should be at 40. And 40 is in two and a half years. So at two and a half years I should have X amount, and I\u2019m going to be way behind that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then, if you are truly way behind that, a cartoon car that Fidelity put on their website, did that car take into account cost of living? No. Did it take into account single or dual income? Probably not. Did it take into account when you started earning that money, whether it was at 25 or 40? No. And on and on. So let\u2019s just keep going with the example. Let\u2019s say you get to 40 and you haven\u2019t met the car goals. What then?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Before we hear her answer, I need a quick favor from you. If you\u2019re enjoying this show, please hit the Subscribe button. It really helps me, and it helps my team.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:48]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s feeling like a failure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then? If you feel like a failure, what\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:53]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like I shouldn\u2019t be spending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And then?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:57]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m overspending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then what do you do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:00]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Save, leave money in the bag.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Keep going.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:04]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it\u2019s a lot of guilt ridden for spending money. In my 20s, I barely made money. So to go from a place of below minimum wage, a point in my life, and eating terrible food, and eating free food, and not having money to then doing well for myself and working my\u00a0ass\u00a0off, multiple jobs, feeling confident in my career, confident in who I am and what I bring to the table, I was right there.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fidelity actually does have a webpage where they suggest you aim for three times your income by the age of 40. Look at this page. I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0show it on our YouTube\u00a0channel.\u00a0You\u2019ll notice Fidelity bends over backwards to remind you that these are just guidelines and they depend on tons of variables, but people will literally go their entire lives\u00a0feeling bad about money because of a cartoon image on some random webpage.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:08]\u00a0If you\u00a0want to\u00a0live your\u00a0Rich Life, you have to know your numbers, not just the guidelines, not just a cartoon car, substantive knowledge of your numbers. This is one of the most important topics in your life. You have to know your numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:24]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Financially, things can change like that, and I\u2019m in a situation now where I wouldn\u2019t call myself high in the totem pole. I wouldn\u2019t call myself bottom of the barrel, but I\u2019m not middle high. I\u2019m like middle, middle, middle low even in my mind. I feel like I had a very late start professionally, and so it\u2019s hindering me, like, okay, well, I\u2019m only here, but my peers are making double what I\u2019m making.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:50]\u00a0And I just feel incompetent, and I feel like I\u2019m not making enough. And so as a family, are we really making enough to have two kids? I want three. Are we really making enough to even afford the two? It feels like\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels like a lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:10]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0It does feel like a lot. And I\u2019m not going to say who said this, but I had someone say when I got pregnant with my first child, like, you should be focused on getting a job and not getting pregnant. And I think that weighs on me from the angle of, have I just been irresponsible my whole life? That\u2019s not a story I\u2019m telling myself, and I\u2019m telling myself like, no, you\u2019re not irresponsible. You\u2019re a saver. Yes, you spend, but you save.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:34]\u00a0But it\u2019s like I\u2019m fighting this voice of other people saying like, you\u2019re a young, irresponsible person who has no care in the world and is not investing your finances. You don\u2019t have finances to invest, and you\u2019re not making thoughtful decisions. And so I\u2019m trying to make thoughtful decisions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask you a question? That person who said that, are they in the position that you want to be in?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:59]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But you, the two of you, are making a lot of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:07]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s relative to where you live.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:11]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I do. I really do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are we going to do this? Are we going to do this whole thing? All right. Do you know how much you make?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:15]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:17]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0300 gross.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can you just say the full number? I wasn\u2019t sure I caught that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:21]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0300.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0$300?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0$300,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0$300,000. It\u2019s all relative, my friends.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold that thought. We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:30]\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to the conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think it\u2019s possible that the way that you feel about money doesn\u2019t have anything to do with how much you actually make?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:40]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, yes. I guess yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So is it possible that if you made 400,000, or 450,000, or 500,000, that you still wouldn\u2019t feel like you make a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:52]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think if we made those numbers in this year, in this city, I\u2019d feel like we\u2019d make a lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then next year you would go on a nicer vacation and you would buy nicer food and nicer XYZ.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:05]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if we would do a ton of lifestyle inflation. I think we would invest more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh. You know how much you invest per year?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:13]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0We were aiming for 60k a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a lot of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:20]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, but it has to grow. We have to spend a lot of money down the road.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think you have a dramatic miscalibration with what a lot of money means.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And because of that, you are always going to feel bad about money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:37]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I was just calculating my retirement the other day to 102.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:42]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Here\u2019s why. We don\u2019t know. I could have a heart attack and die. I could get hit by a bus. We don\u2019t know. But what if for some reason modern medicine gets even better? Which it should. What if this healthy lifestyle I\u2019m living and I\u2019m trying to live, I keep it up and I get to live?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:57]\u00a0What if I get to live through my 80s and my 90s? What a blessing. I don\u2019t want to undercalculate. Let\u2019s be real. I don\u2019t want to undercalculate my retirement to 85 and then I live beyond it. So I thought, well, 102 seems like a reach, but it\u2019s possible. So I calculated it to 102. I need 9 million. Now you might go, how do you need 9 million? 9 million seems insane.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. I understand. And I like that you\u2019re being not just conservative in your calculations, but extremely conservative. The average life expectancy, there\u2019s a few years difference, but it\u2019s like basically in the 70s in America.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Now, education changes things, etc. But conservatively, most people calculate, let\u2019s say, 90, if they want to be really conservative. You were like, no, 12 more years. Fine. But your conclusion from that is what I find most interesting. I need nine million. I\u2019m not going to have enough. I should feel bad. I feel bad because I looked at this Fidelity website. I\u2019m not doing enough, and that person who said that mean thing to me, maybe they were right. And so I need to second guess everything I\u2019m doing because ultimately, I want to feel bad about money. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:13]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t want to feel bad about money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:16]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But you do feel bad about money, correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:18]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel bad about my part in the money-making process. It\u2019s not enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know about that because you told me that your husband is really frugal and his parents are extremely frugal. It didn\u2019t seem like it was just about you. Because you\u2019re here talking about Noah as well, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:33]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0His inability to spend and to plan things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:37]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I think I\u2019m genuinely confused, like, am I trying to spend too much and he would keep us on target to save and have 9 million when I\u2019m 100?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is not a math problem because people who make $300,000 a year, invest $60,000 in a single year, have over half a million dollars invested in their 30s, and still feel anxious and fight about money and disagree for years about $10,000. That\u2019s not a math problem. What kind of problem is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:12]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t really have an answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:14]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably more of psychological habits, like why do I not want to spend the money problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It\u2019s the dynamic between the two of you, of course, and it\u2019s an individual challenge as well. And I can tell you that. I can show it to you on the calculator, but until you internalize, oh my gosh, we\u2019ve actually been investing a lot. If we actually calculate our numbers, we\u2019re going to have more money than we know what to do with.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:45]\u00a0All that stuff is great, but more importantly, we\u2019re doing a really good job. If we\u2019re going to arbitrarily choose how to go through life, why don\u2019t we just choose to have a good time? Why don\u2019t we choose to know our numbers, which you do, and then choose to be confident and have fun?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that everything you just heard from Christina is really just storytelling to cover up fear. She worries she won\u2019t have enough. She berates herself for spending too much and not saving enough. She actually gets a lot out of feeling worried about money, even though she claims she doesn\u2019t like to worry.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:25]\u00a0That\u2019s it. The rest is irrelevant details. The idea of needing to calculate, living until the age of 102, the Fidelity website, the Gucci bags, it\u2019s all irrelevant details. The single factor that matters here with Christina is that she\u2019s afraid. And no amount of money in the bank, no spreadsheet, no income, no net worth number will solve that emotional problem.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you get out of fixating on small expenses?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:55]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Entertainment. It takes my time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. She comes to you saying we should do this, and then you, your role is what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:05]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s slow it down a second here. Let\u2019s make sure. What is the right thing to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. You go like this. Well, wait a second. Explain to me how this is going to work. It\u2019s that kind of like, hold on, slow it down. Let\u2019s not get crazy. Any of this sound familiar?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And so you get entertainment out of that. That is true. I think that\u2019s actually one of the most honest things I\u2019ve heard on this entire podcast. Entertainment. It is entertaining to be like, wait, wait, wait, justify it. What else do you get out of it, Noah?\u00a0[00:28:40]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Stress.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:42]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0A lot of that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You like stress?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:45]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Not really. I\u2019m not a big fan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re sure?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:48]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we get the dopamine hit from the disagreements and arguments.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s really true. You both like it a bit, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:55]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think for sure. I\u2019m not going to deny it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Both of your parents have a similar dynamic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:00]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Different.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:00]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Not mine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do they have a dynamic where they snipe at each other a little bit?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:08]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Mine do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It doesn\u2019t have to be the exact same, but where they disagree almost comically. It\u2019s quite entertaining to watch or listen to. Any of that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:17]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Mine aren\u2019t exciting like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, your parents, they were very frugal, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:21]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Think about it. What do you get out of this, saying, hold on, slow down, when you connect how you grew up with your parents?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:32]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve always looked at it as the hold on to why they\u2019re financially well off or\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:37]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Stable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So they\u2019re wise and financially stable because, what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:41]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0The frugality<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because they said, hold on, let\u2019s not make any rash decisions. And so by doing this, by pulling out your chalkboard and saying, wait a second, slow down. What are you doing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:53]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m trying to avoid the rash decisions. And I definitely will look at myself as that like, I don\u2019t know if the ying to the yang, but Christina will be like, I want to buy this, and I\u2019m like, whoa, whoa, whoa, slow down. Let\u2019s make sure this actually makes sense. Because there\u2019s a passion, and I\u2019m like, I need to keep her in check.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Keep her in check means what? You are who?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:12]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0My parent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re being responsible. You\u2019re being calm, methodical. The way you interpret your behavior is I\u2019m doing a good thing, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:26]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And Christina, what do you get out of fixating on small expenses?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:34]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Feeling like I\u2019m right, maybe satisfaction.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What does it feel like when you finally convince them that it\u2019s okay to spend money on something?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:44]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I can breathe and be like a free spirit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Uncaged.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:48]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. That\u2019s a great way to put it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What was it like doing the CSP together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:57]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Contentious?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really? What happened?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:00]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0It wasn\u2019t as hard. Anytime we have a conversation about money, we have a lot of feelings or a lot of thoughts on it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Listen into a few moments from a video that they took at home after they put together their conscious spending plan before our meeting together. One thing I noticed while watching this is that they are focused on the wrong problems. Like many couples, when it comes to their money, they are down in the weeds despite going through the conscious spending plan, which is literally designed to help you zoom up and look at the big picture.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:33]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s been an experience. I think some of it was related to what do we consider guilt-free spending? What do we consider a fixed cost? Also just some slight things like, is clothing a fixed cost or is it guilt free spending?\u00a0Spent a number of hours having these conversations here. How about you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:54]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think what surprised me the most is when I wrote in. I had thought, so my calculations are obviously off, but based on our gross income, I had thought that it would go up to 75% based on our gross, and you\u2019re doing this from our net. Already, our fixed expenses are 74%, which is a lot,\u00a0I\u00a0guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:17]\u00a0Again, going back the at the bottom line, it\u2019s money in, money out, and I still think we have a problem, and whether or not shopping or entertainment is under guilt-free spending or if it under fixed expenses because you typically spend the same amount in these categories,\u00a0it\u2019s irrelevant.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:42]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0The contentious part for me was, or for both of us, was\u2013 so filling it out, it\u2019s a ton of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The CSP wasn\u2019t precise enough for how you\u2019re used to it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:54]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I get that. I agree. The CSP is not precise. It\u2019s designed not to be.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:00]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think it\u2019s designed for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:03]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let me ask you this way. You have a spreadsheet with 40-plus categories, multiple sheets. It\u2019s very precise, would you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:12]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, I feel like I\u2019m always making it more precise, but yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You didn\u2019t have to tell me that. I already knew that. And does it give you the answers you need?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0On paper, but not emotionally.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0In other words, precision doesn\u2019t get you what you think it will. Not in most scenarios.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Totally. 100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And when you become really fixated on precision, what do you end up doing more of?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:42]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Being nitty gritty with the precision and making more categories and making things more complicated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. We got to account for this one thing that happens every fourth leap year and we got to add a line item, and now you have 40-plus line items, and you feel what? What do you feel?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:58]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0More stressed, more tense.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But ironically, the more and more precise you get, the less and less connected you are to your feelings. That\u2019s because you\u2019re down in the weeds.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:10]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So does anybody in this room feel good about this number? 863,000 in your mid-30s?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:21]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think good is the word I would use, so no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What would be the word that you use?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:27]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Decent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. What would be good?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0For this point, I would probably have to honestly go to a spreadsheet and calculate what would feel good.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The idea that you\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0derive your feelings from a spreadsheet is such a gross misunderstanding of how humans work that it\u2019s actually comical to hear it. It\u2019s like saying, are you proud of your kids? And then you say, well, let me look at their report card. Wait a second. Isn\u2019t that how I was\u00a0raised?\u00a0Anyway, I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0play along with Christina just for the moment.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I have a spreadsheet, so tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:05]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. This is silly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Didn\u2019t you actually tell me something like by 40 you should have two and a half times\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:11]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Three times.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Three times your income because that\u2019s what Fidelity\u2019s cartoon said, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:15]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s just stick to that. Let\u2019s do that for a second. You told me three times your income is what you need what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:23]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0In two and a half years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Your income is 300,000, so you need 900,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:30]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like it\u2019s, yes, but they were calculating just mine. Okay, yes, let\u2019s stick with that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have three times your income right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:39]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you feel good about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:43]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I hate to say no, but yeah, no, because I want to be able to buy a house and not feel like we still don\u2019t have enough invested as well. And we wouldn\u2019t have 900,000 invested if we buy a house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. I agree.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:58]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0So then that would screw the plan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But sometimes there\u2019s more to life than what\u2019s on a spreadsheet. Okay, what do you conclude from that little exercise we just did?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:13]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0What you want, you already have it. You\u2019re 40k away.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:17]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Less than 40k away.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And yet?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:19]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I still don\u2019t feel great about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. And your natural response, instinctual, was to what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:26]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Fight it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fight it. Yes, resist. Well, that doesn\u2019t count because of this, this, this, this, this, this. The point is you will keep doing that for the rest of your life. You\u2019re going to do it when you have a million, two million, five million, and more. Do you want to live like that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:44]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No? Why did it take you so long to answer that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:48]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I was mentally processing, like, am I a product of my environment?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Of course, you are. We all are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:56]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0So maybe I\u2019m just surrounded by people who are constantly like, we have so much money, but we don\u2019t make enough, and maybe that\u2019s the problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0Fuck\u00a0yes. I\u2019m telling you, as someone who\u2019s looking at your numbers, you set this arbitrary goal that you read from some website, you essentially already hit the goal.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u00a0want to\u00a0tell you a funny story about this concept of how our feelings are directly influenced by the people around us, but we hate to believe it. Recently, I posted a video on social media showing that we\u2019re not actually living in the worst economy as many people believe.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:29]\u00a0This is actually one of the best economies of our lives. Yes, I said it. I have actual data to show that. Record low unemployment, record low crime. I have tons more metrics on my YouTube channel. People literally sent me thousands of angry messages. They said I was out of touch. They used the word gaslighting, as in, Ramit, you\u2019re gaslighting us.\u00a0They said, I was obviously being paid by the Biden campaign.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:55]\u00a0Honestly, first of all, I just\u00a0want to\u00a0say, I think a lot of us have gotten a little too comfortable weaponizing therapy words, because it is not gaslighting to post easily verifiable facts. Period. Most of us have only heard that this economy is terrible for years and years. It\u2019s literally a punchline, \u201cin this economy?\u201d There are some people who right now, genuinely believe we\u2019re in a recession. Y\u2019all know we have almost record low unemployment.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:22]\u00a0There are some people who right now claim we\u2019re facing worse inflation than the Great Depression. It\u2019s completely absurd and patently out of touch with reality. I\u2019m sharing this because it\u2019s not just that our feelings are out of touch with our finances, as we see with today\u2019s couple and many other couples. It\u2019s that our feelings are also out of touch with the economy even more so.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:44] As you hear from Christina and Noah, you can let your feelings create narratives that are genuinely, totally out of touch with reality. They have a lot of money, yet she doesn\u2019t believe it. You can go your entire life feeling bad about something that\u2019s actually very good if you don\u2019t learn how to interrogate your stories and look beneath the claims that you read on social media.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:09] You can find my video with all the data cited on YouTube, by the way. And I encourage you, if you disagree, if you\u00a0want to\u00a0critique it with your own data, please do. But we can\u2019t simply operate our entire lives based solely on feelings.\u00a0We need to also know our numbers. That\u2019s with our personal finances. That\u2019s also with the economy around us.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now let\u2019s look at your fixed costs. What\u2019s that number there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a074.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s pretty high.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:33]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Very high.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that tells me you\u2019re investing, let\u2019s see, if it\u2019s 300,000, so you\u2019re investing 60k a year. Great. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:44]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0But we have been.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s\u2013 What do you mean have been?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:48]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. I hate the fear thing, but I think I constantly am like, I\u2019m pregnant. The baby\u2019s going to come. How are we going to keep investing that amount?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, maybe you go down to 40k a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:59]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0That seems terrible.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It does.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:03]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. You\u2019re going to hate this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to try to protect you from yourself, okay?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:06]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll get back to the story after these brief messages.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:10] Let\u2019s get right back to it.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not here to tell you what to do with your money. What I\u2019m here to do is to understand what kind of life you want, and then to tell you your options with your money. So I\u2019m not the guy who\u2019s going to tell you, you need to be investing 20%. It\u2019s not my job. It\u2019s not my money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:28]\u00a0I can tell you what\u2019s going to happen if you stay at 20 or drop it to 10%, and I can show you a future that you may not have seen yourself. I think you\u2019re going to be surprised when you see it. I think you\u2019re going to probably realize that a lot of the stress that you\u2019re experiencing individually and together as a couple is self-created.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:52]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s keep working down. You\u2019re saving 13%, which is about $1,800 a month. I see that $1,000 of that is going towards future house savings. 666 bucks is going towards vacations and the rest assorted gifts and stuff like that. Fine. And you then have 10% for your guilt-free spending, which is $1,472 a month. Is that accurate?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:24]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I think it all is. Would you agree? Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:27]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love the answer. They\u2019re like, yeah, it\u2019s\u00a0fucking\u00a0accurate. We tracked this down to the penny. So based on the numbers, you\u2019re investing $60,000 in one year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:38]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So it feels fine. That\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not feelings. It\u2019s numbers on a page. Your numbers. Your question was, are we spending too much? What\u2019s the answer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:51]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know what the answer is.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0According to the spreadsheet, are you spending more than you make? No. You\u2019re also saving 13% of net, 1,800 bucks a month. You\u2019re spending 1,400 bucks on guilt-free spending. And you told me that that number is accurate. I believe you. So are you spending too much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:17]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0On the spreadsheet, then no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So there\u2019s your answer. Stop looking at that. Your numbers are not going to change. Why are you fixated on those numbers instead of what\u2019s going on here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:35]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know how to rationalize it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Guys, I don\u2019t find that I\u2019m connecting with you at all right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:45]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Huh?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I show you the numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:47]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:48]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much you have invested right now? 650,000, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:54]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How many years to grow? Should we just say 30?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:58]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Say 30.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much do you think you\u2019re going to have by the time you\u2019re 65?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:03]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, that\u2019s if we don\u2019t take any of it out. We let it sit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, so now we\u2019re talking about all the reasons it won\u2019t work.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:08]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No, no, no. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Read that number out loud.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:11]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a011 million? Oh, so we really shouldn\u2019t buy a house. Oh my god.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So here you are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:18]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0That would be amazing. We really shouldn\u2019t buy a house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s going on right now? What are you thinking when you see that number? The number is $11 million.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:26]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I just shouldn\u2019t buy a house, and then I\u2019ll have plenty of money to send all my kids through college and still live the life I want to live.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This isn\u2019t about a house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:35]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You guys are still fixated on whatever is right in front of you. You\u2019re arguing about Target bills. You\u2019re arguing about a few thousand dollars here or there. You constantly walk on eggshells around each other, talking about minimizing how much you spend, and you\u2019re going to have $11 million in your 60s. Do you even know what you would do with $11 million?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:09]\u00a0Instead of you investing $60,000 a year, let\u2019s say you only invest $30,000 per year. That means you take 30k of what you\u2019re currently investing and you spend it. Spend it on a house keeper, spend it on renovations, spend it on whatever you want. What do you think would happen to that 11 million?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:32]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Half. Six.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a07.9 million.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:36]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s still a good amount.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s 8 million, which is throwing off roughly 800k in nominal amount every single year. That\u2019s more than you make right now. Take it down by inflation, but yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:53]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0And this is 30 years projection, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:56]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you\u2019re saying if this count, the 2024 year, we only saved 30k, and then the next year I save 30k, and our income doesn\u2019t come up and nothing changes and for some reason we just constantly make the same amount of money, that\u2019s how much we would have.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019d have almost 8 million.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:15]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Still be able to afford our kids\u2019 college.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You will have more than enough for your kid\u2019s college. That\u2019s not something to fixate on. You\u2019re playing small.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:27]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I didn\u2019t know that before today, truly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are you thinking right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:33]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like all this stress is for naught.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But it\u2019s still real.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:36]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I literally don\u2019t have an issue spending the money when it gets to spending it. It\u2019s more. I will always provide a resistance in that initial.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But Noah, that\u2019s the problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:45]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Getting to it is most of the work. And by resisting it, you\u2019re putting all the pressure back on her. And Christina, I sense her frustration. It\u2019s incredibly frustrating to feel like you\u2019re always trying to convince a friend to come out to dinner, much less your husband, to actually want to spend on things that will benefit them and our family. Add on the extra layer that we\u2019re already on track to have $11\u00a0fucking\u00a0million. Why am I, Christina, getting resistance over a 50-dollar purchase? Is that not incredibly frustrating to you to hear? Because it is to me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:30]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. I get it. I get why you should definitely be frustrated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you get?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:37]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I understand that concept. Like, yeah, it seems, just do it now. Why are you being an\u00a0asshole\u00a0where I\u2019m slowing it down and just causing more of a problem the entire time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:53]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Get rid of your own way, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:58]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s super interesting.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You need to understand the full context. We are an 11-million-dollar couple. We just need time. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I have to admit, sometimes I lose my temper when I see a multimillionaire couple just playing small. What a tragedy! Do you know how many people would do anything to have even a fraction of that amount of money, to know that they have safe housing or food for their kids?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:26]\u00a0And yet here we have a couple where one member has concocted a narrative that they don\u2019t have enough.\u00a0The other simply crosses his arms and plays bad guy. It\u2019s just such a waste of time. When people talk about gratitude, gratitude with your money. Christina and Noah are not displaying gratitude for their money. If they were, they would be focused on how they can be generous and spontaneous, but instead they\u2019re fixating on will they have enough?\u00a0And that is not a\u00a0Rich Life. It\u2019s actually the opposite of a\u00a0Rich Life. Listen in now as we talk about an 8,000-dollar vacation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:00]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0That seems like an obscene amount of money to him unless I over explain how we\u2019re able to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Noah, does that seem like an obscene amount of money to spend on vacations?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:11]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think so. I think we spend the money, and I think, especially when I\u2019m on the vacations, I don\u2019t look at the cost of anything. I\u2019m not like, oh, same sort of thing. If we\u2019re out for dinner, I don\u2019t care. It\u2019s just the idea of it, spent that sort of money, is there a good reason for it? And yeah, it\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:31]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I pause you? Because even just yesterday we were talking to friends, and I had to explain to them like, oh, well, we almost didn\u2019t book a vacation we\u2019re going to take in about a month because you didn\u2019t think we could afford it. And practically speaking, I literally waited and waited to book these hotels on an app that I knew the hotels. I knew the dates, knew the prices, and you didn\u2019t want me to book it because you\u2019re like, do we really need to take this vacation? Do we need this vacation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:59]\u00a0We went to Disney this year. Couldn\u2019t that just have been the one vacation a year. And I said, let\u2019s take one little baby moon. It\u2019s our summer vacation. Can we take this one other vacation? That\u2019s it for the year. And it\u2019s a shorter trip. And I know how much we\u2019re going to spend, and I\u2019ve calculated it, and still you were like, I don\u2019t think we need it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:20]\u00a0So you were fighting the need to spend money in these avenues. And you\u2019re totally right. When we go on them, you\u2019re happy, and you don\u2019t fight me, and you do look at something buying the chicken versus the beef. That is something you do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Noah, is that accurate?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:40]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I think need is the word. I don\u2019t really think I need a lot of things. So I think that\u2019s the differentiator here. Because I look at this. It seems like a reasonable amount of money to me if we\u2019re going to spend and have decent vacations. But do I need to take a vacation? No, not really.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0According to the savings goals that the two of you set up, you put away $666 a month for vacations, so 8,000 bucks a year. As long as you\u2019re below that number, what does it matter to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:13]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. No, that\u2019s why I don\u2019t fight it. I\u2019m not saying let\u2019s not have any vacations to spend money. It\u2019s more of a stress coming up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That sounds different than what Christina described your response about the vacation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:25]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0It is very different.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So who\u2019s telling the truth?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:29]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I think for me, I know I have to work right now. It\u2019s not a fixed 300 a year that we\u2019re making. It\u2019s here if I can hit these numbers. That\u2019s when it hits.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you tell her that when she brought up the vacation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:43]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s aware of that, very aware. And there\u2019s a lot of stress behind that too because there\u2019s an inconsistency to our income that can hit. I\u2019m not worried that that is a bad use of money. I think that\u2019s fine. Use that for your vacation. That\u2019s we\u2019ve allocated for it. It\u2019s more that week off, the time that it takes to take off from that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What if you don\u2019t make the money back from that week? What will happen to your life?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:05]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019ll be the same.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think my wife and I do? Do you think that we have the same conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:12]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I would imagine there\u2019s a little trust assuming that, hey, this is my world. I\u2019ve allocated for this. Just assume this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. Have you considered that I might say, Oh my God, that sounds awesome. Spain? Wow, I\u2019ve never been there before. Where would we go? Well, what are you thinking? Who would we bring with us? So in other words, meet her, match her energy, and even one up it? And say like, whoa, tell me more about that. What would that be like? Have you considered that dynamic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:43]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I haven\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Never done it, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:46]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So your response is to go negative, to take her dream, and what would you describe it as?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:55]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Crunch it. Or squash it, if you will.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Dream squasher. Am I reading this right, Christina?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:02]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And in your mind, you\u2019re not the dream squasher. You\u2019re the responsible one. I\u2019m just looking out for the family. I\u2019m making sure I \u201ckeep her in check.\u201d But I don\u2019t need to keep my wife in check. That\u2019s not my job. She\u2019s not a child. She\u2019s my wife, my partner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:24]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s making her feel appreciated. And feeling like, hey, we\u2019re in this together. Let me give you this sense of, let\u2019s make this exciting plan together. Versus, hey, I\u2019m going to be your dream killer, if you will.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What would that look like, getting you on the same page?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:40]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it would get me to probably be more likely to plan with her for expenditures and be more active of a, hey, here\u2019s what we\u2019re going to do. Here\u2019s how we\u2019re going to spend the money, versus being there as the guardrail.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, guardrail is a very charitable term. Dream crusher is much more accurate. A guardrail implies that someone\u2019s going to fly off a cliff. Is that happening here? Are you at any risk of flying off a financial cliff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:17]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say no. We were talking about houses beforehand, very expensive houses, and that might have been a different story.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. You find it difficult to create solutions because in part, you fixate on all the reasons they won\u2019t work. Do you notice that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:34]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How frustrating must that be for your wife?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:39]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Frustrating, I\u2019m sure.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Here\u2019s what I notice happening here. She says he doesn\u2019t accept an 8,000-dollar estimated annual vacation spending. He says, no, it\u2019s fine, but I\u2019d rather work, which is just another way of him being a dream crusher. She acts like she doesn\u2019t know their numbers, but she\u2019s actually incredibly informed, and yet she still seeks his approval.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:01]\u00a0He has appointed himself the guardrail guy, when in fact they\u2019re in very little danger. He claims to hate conflict, but his very disposition, the one that reflexively says no, or we don\u2019t need that, causes conflict.\u00a0What does he even want? He mentioned providing for his family, but truthfully, I haven\u2019t really gotten many\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0details from Noah.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is your Rich Life?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:26]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I like being able to spend money without having to worry about the money. I love that. I love having the idea of the house and my walk into the house is not out of disorder.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, like a housekeeper?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:37]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, exactly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:39]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Most of the meals are easy to have. My ideal day is I wake up, I can make myself food. I can work. The day goes well. The doing the laundry, that doesn\u2019t have to be me. Or I don\u2019t have to fix the other thing random around the house that just breaks. That would be great. That would be phenomenal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You love convenience. That\u2019s your money dial. You want to be able to open up the fridge, see the food, have it easily ready, house house should be clean, maybe not have to do the laundry, things like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:09]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Love it. And what about with the two of you? What\u2019s your Rich Life together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:15]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I enjoy when we have dates, when it\u2019s like we can go out, whether it be a show, for dinner, or whatever, not having to worry about what\u2019s going on with our dog and children.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:29]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s the huge one for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:32]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I like conversations about money because it does show that she\u2019s very interested in our family wellbeing. I think that\u2019s helpful to have those conversations going forward. But I personally wish that that dynamic of it, because it\u2019s such a large dynamic of our day to day, was lessened, hence the reason we\u2019re even here in the first place, would be like\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You want a house?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:57]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I would like a house. Yeah. I don\u2019t need to own it, but I\u2019m like, I\u2019m weird about this. Renting\u2019s fine if it\u2019s a better, like, if I look at that as a better deal, if will.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you have the same vision for a house that she does?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:11]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I think generally pretty close. We both might have a fenced yard. We\u2019ll have the dogs be able to run around out there. It doesn\u2019t have to be massive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s the Rich Life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:19]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I don\u2019t find anything particularly exciting, Noah, about your vision. I\u2019m on a mission to help men in particular realize it\u2019s okay to have wants. And it could be a haircut. It could be a nice pair of socks, whatever. It\u2019s your thing. Y\u2019all seen sitcom dynamics where the husband doesn\u2019t want anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:43]\u00a0All he is is a provider. He\u2019s basically a husk of a man. He has no desires at all. All he wants to do is be left alone, and the wife is always like, we should do this, we should do that, and he\u2019s like, that\u2019s going to cost too much. You\u2019ve seen this, right, in a million TV shows. Do you see it here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:58]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you see it getting worse every\u00a0time. You\u2019re only in your 30s.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:01]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, and we don\u2019t want that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Good. Neither do I. So there\u2019s a dynamic that\u2019s clearly been co created here where your needs are unimportant, and actually you\u2019ve embraced that. I don\u2019t need much. I\u2019m a simple guy. Probably same as your parents. I\u2019m a simple guy. We don\u2019t need all that fancy stuff. Seeing a lot of nods right now. Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:26]\u00a0And so what you don\u2019t realize is that by saying, I don\u2019t need anything, whatever, it\u2019s fine. You\u2019re actually putting more of the burden on Christina. So now she has to plan everything. Now she has to come and justify the budget and convince you. And actually a much healthier relationship is to have both partners saying, this is what I want to do. Christina, I can see you thinking as I share this. What\u2019s going through your head?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:49]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m not even allowed to dream that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:54]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Genuinely. It\u2019s almost pointless if I were to share that, because I can be creative, and I can create a whole scenario of the hotel we\u2019re staying at, the view, all that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:09]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0And what we would do. It wouldn\u2019t mean anything to him because at least before this moment, maybe things would change. And I hope they do. But it always comes back to the money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s talk about this. This is a great example. First off, nobody wants to hear their partner say, I feel like I can\u2019t dream. If I heard that from my wife, I would feel like I failed at one of my core responsibilities as a partner, which is to get to help my wife dream even bigger. I can\u2019t do it for her, but I can create the culture that would encourage her to do that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:53]\u00a0How would you feel if your son got to be age 13 and said, I can\u2019t do any of these creative things I want to do because I need to maximize my Roth 401K? You\u2019d feel like failures, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:05]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Totally.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And I think we can be fair to say that would not be good parenting.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:10]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So why is it okay that to create a culture in a relationship where your partner feels like they\u2019re in a cage?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:18]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Because every time, if I were to mention, let\u2019s go to a show or let\u2019s go and get cocktails, or whatever it is, it\u2019s, can we afford that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I be really direct with both of you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:27]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re going to go and do this for the rest of your life unless you actually decide to make a change. So the part I\u2019m going to be direct about is the dynamic between the two of you is, you create the dreams, Christina, but then you mistakenly believe that you need to convince Noah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:45]\u00a0You give him the power of saying no. You delegate the power yourself. He doesn\u2019t take it from you. You willingly give it away. And then Noah, you exploit that. You always respond by metaphorically crossing your arms and saying, what about cost? Do we need to do that? Which is extremely devastating to anyone who ever wanted to\u2013 it would be like your son coming to you at age 10 and saying, I want to be an astronaut. And you both go, are you really sure? The odds are so small of doing it? Devastating.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:23]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t want to make it so my son grows up this idea like, oh, okay, you have to be one of the other, and let me stamp on your dreams.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:29]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Obviously, it\u2019s going to impact how they view money, but in the sense of, yes, daddy buys new shirts, or yeah, we go on vacation, and I didn\u2019t have to hear about, oh, the lobster roll was 30 at that place as opposed to, oh, it was 20 at that place.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s right. Or every time I watch mommy, she is asking daddy if it\u2019s okay to spend this, or can we do that? And therefore I realize, daddies are the one who make the decision about money. Mommies are just there to ask. You want that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:59]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0No, definitely not.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Your son will grow up like that. Just the same way as you saw your parents being extremely frugal, and now you believe that that\u2019s necessary and in fact, it\u2019s a good thing to question your wife when she\u2019s the one who manages the day-to-day expenses. Do you get that? Your son will grow up like that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:27]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s actually existential for you to do that. First for your own relationship, which in my opinion is the most important, and then for the relationship between you and your kids. Because they will pick up on every little thing. How many little radioactive waves have I picked up from the two of you today in a few hours?<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:43]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0All the time.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And your sons are with you every day of their life for 18 years. They\u2019re still not going to pick up on every single little dynamic you send out. The eye rolls, the arm crosses, the fact that one of you is disengaged with money, the fact that the other one asks all the time, and even though you know your numbers, you pretend you don\u2019t?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:02]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Obviously there\u2019s a layer of fear of, again, I think I need 9 million one day. There\u2019s the other layer of, I revere to some degree what his parents did. And I think some aspects of it are smart and then some aspects limit you to actually live a life. And so I genuinely feel like I\u2019m convincing him to spend our money all the time.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Does it work?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:27]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I have to like nag, nag, nag, and eventually he caves.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you like nagging?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:32]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t. I think that\u2019s the problem.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you get out of it?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:34]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0My way.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:39]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Action. I get what I want. I\u2019m the one spending the money. I\u2019m the one choosing to spend any of this. I\u2019m the one who said we could spend that much on our rent, and that wasn\u2019t insane.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what\u2019s the problem?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:55]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0You know what it is? I feel guilty spending money that two thirds of it, I think, comes from him. So I feel like it\u2019s not fair that I\u2019m spending a lot of the money he\u2019s making.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ask him if he thinks that\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:10]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll say it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ask him and ask him.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:13]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Is it fair that I spend your money? I spend a lot of your money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:16]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. We\u2019ve talked about this for years. That\u2019s okay. That\u2019s the point of when you get married, and you\u2019re combining incomes and finances. That is the deal. That\u2019s not a problem. I\u2019m definitely\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:27]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not a problem to spend your money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:29]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:29]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Then is it not a problem if I say, hey honey, I know we\u2019re looking at homes, and this one\u2019s 900, and this one\u2019s a little over a million.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:37]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I want a home, but I wanted to make sure it\u2019s the right home.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:42]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I just don\u2019t feel like you\u2019re being real with me. I really don\u2019t. I think you\u2019re telling me as if like, oh, it\u2019s fine, I\u2019ll keel over and get whatever you want, but I know that\u2019s not the truth. Let\u2019s be real. Honestly, it feels frustrating that I even am bringing this up because I\u2019m like, what will get you to the point where you take action to help your own life?<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe he doesn\u2019t want to.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:09]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe you\u2019re right.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:11]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m having those conversations.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:13]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. And you\u2019re okay. And if I say we can afford this, I\u2019ve looked at the numbers. Let\u2019s buy that house. You\u2019re going to find a way to go, how can we save 100k? You\u2019re going to find a reason to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you asking him or telling him what he\u2019s going to do?<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:29]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve had these conversations. This is what he does. Nothing changes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:33]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0First off, I think I would always be crazy if I didn\u2019t want to save $100,000. I feel like that\u2019s a good chunk of money.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. You all went to therapy before, right?<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:44]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And did they advise you on not labeling your partner, he always does this?<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:51]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, they did. They did. You\u2019re right. You\u2019re right.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we try that again? Can we try it assuming good intent? And can we try remembering that we are not adversaries here? You are married. You\u2019re parents. You love each other. You\u2019re going to be together for the rest of your lives. This isn\u2019t a problem that he\u2019s cheap or you spend too\u2013 it\u2019s not that. It\u2019s the two of you as partners holding hands together. Try it. Holding hands together. You\u2019re trying to figure out your Rich Life. Nobody\u2019s doing anything wrong right now. You\u2019re trying to go on a journey together. Now ask the same question.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:35]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0What will make you more comfortable to spend more money on a house? There\u2019s not an or. It\u2019s just like, what would make you more comfortable? You see how much money we have. What would make you more comfortable to take 200 of that, put that towards the down payment? And then the debt of it is 800k or whatever. What would make you more comfortable to live our life?<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:01]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably just you being happy<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So when we are discussing things like childcare, does it make financial sense? Can we still hit our 60,000-dollar a year number? Also, more importantly, do we even need $11 million? I don\u2019t think the two of you need it. You can\u2019t even spend the money you have right now. $11 million, you\u2019re basically printing over $1 million a year, passively. What are you going to do with that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:29]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you embrace the idea that we are an 11-million-dollar couple, where\u2019s my time better spent? Is it on cleaning up the house or is it on having the energy and freedom to be able to speak to my wife and engage with our money and other critical parts of the family? I think that answer becomes very evident.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:49]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:50]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s amazing is both of you, pretty skilled with knowing your numbers. Every question I\u2019m asking you, you thought it through. I like that. I appreciate it. And yet, even knowing your numbers does not necessarily change the way you feel about it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:08]\u00a0You can question yourself about something as large as your vacation expenditure or childcare. You can go the rest of your life doing it. You will accumulate millions. and you will have a miserable time along the whole way.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:21]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we need to spend a little more and feel a little like breathing room.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not a math problem. It is changing your money dynamic. What else, Noah?<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:34]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s less consequential for the education costs. I think that\u2019s been a big thing. We\u2019re like, how do we make this one year work here?<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Think bigger.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:44]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re going to be all right.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:45]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. I didn\u2019t think it was possible.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I found that conversation to be incredibly fascinating and at times frustrating to imagine that you can go your entire life basically wearing a mask, and the mask is of a story that you concocted. One of you, the worrier, constantly worrying about things, actually quite sophisticated with money in certain ways, but also never really diving in and truly understanding how much money they have and what it means for them.\u00a0That\u2019s Christina.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:20]\u00a0Then we have another role, another mask being worn, and that is Noah. Noah who has appointed himself, the guardrail guy, the protector, the one who needs to keep her in check. But that\u2019s not how an intimate partnership works. You shouldn\u2019t need to keep your partner in check. You are partners.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:40]\u00a0And when we really dive in deep and ask, what do you want? What kind of\u00a0Rich Life\u00a0do you\u00a0want to\u00a0create? What kind of dynamic do you want to engender in your household? We discovered that Noah\u2019s behavior is totally at odds with what he and Christina want. So I found that conversation fascinating and frustrating, but I also liked that moment of realization at the end where they realize, it\u2019s\u00a0going to\u00a0be okay. And that is why I do what I do to get that right there, that moment where they realize, oh my gosh, everything is\u00a0going to\u00a0be okay. And now we can turn the page and look at the world through a different set of money lenses. That\u2019s exciting to me. That changes them. That changes their family culture. That changes their children\u2019s family culture. And I\u2019m thankful that I got to play a small part in that.\u00a0Now let\u2019s check out Christina\u2019s follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:29]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Hi, Ramit. It\u2019s Christina. I wanted to give you our feedback from the session. So my biggest surprise was how disrespectful I was to my husband in public. So that was really enlightening, and that will lead to one of our changes that we\u2019re making, which is more couples therapy. And it was also a big surprise that, if we did nothing else, we would be on track to be an 11-million-dollar couple, which seems crazy.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:55]\u00a0I want to say we\u2019re doing fine, but we\u2019re doing pretty good. And I can say that with a smile finally. We\u2019ve realized that our investment portfolio is not as bad as we have perceived it to be, to keep up with the Joneses and our environment. Even if we take out money to buy a home for a down payment, given our habits to invest and save, we will still be on track to have enough of a net worth to afford our kids\u2019 college and to afford retirement. And so those are two things that are very important to us. And that was a really big takeaway.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:35]\u00a0Finally, the changes we\u2019re going to implement. We have already begun a deep search for a house cleaner to come weekly, which is a huge change. It\u2019s a definite an added expense, but in a convenience that we need, and finally, we\u2019re going to fire our financial advisor. We didn\u2019t talk about that too much, but we have a deadline, and the deadline is three weeks. So he will be fired, and we can\u2019t wait. I can\u2019t wait.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now Noah\u2019s follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:06]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>It was liberating hearing that we\u2019re on the right track with our finances and should spend money to make our lives easier. We\u2019ve spent many hours focused on spreadsheets and not enough time on building shared goals and dreams. We have a lot of work to do in our marriage. Hearing Ramit refer to us as a sitcom couple was eye-opening, because I know neither of us wants that. And I don\u2019t want my wife or my children looking at me as a disengaged dad.<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:37]\u00a0The most surprising thing for me was how our financial spending isn\u2019t the problem. Instead, it\u2019s how my frugality and spending habits have negatively impacted our relationship and contributed to Christina\u2019s financial insecurity. So what changes have we made and what\u2019s the plan?<\/p>\n<p>[01:11:57]\u00a0First, we\u2019ve been investing in help for ourselves. We started back up with couples therapy so that we can focus on our marriage. We found new part-time caregivers to watch our son, which allowed us to actually take a date over the weekend to a comedy show.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:13]\u00a0And we\u2019re in the process of hiring a house cleaner to make our lives a lot easier. I\u2019ve removed the, can we afford it from my vocabulary to help Christina make and feel more comfortable in her decision making. And I\u2019m making it a goal of my own to provide input and excitement when planning travel and other ideas. Finally, we\u2019ve taken time each day for us to slow down, connect, discuss, and plan our future together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0My crew also had a chance to ask them what they thought of right after speaking to me. Let\u2019s hear what they said.<\/p>\n<p>[01:12:48]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0Working with Ramit was intense. It was really clarifying. He was very sharp, very intuitive and perceptive. I saw all the good and bad colors in my personality in those few hours.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:06]\u00a0<strong>Noah:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m thinking to focus things that I hadn\u2019t really considered in the first place. And it was definitely very different and difficult to stomach some of that too at the same time. I feel much better from a standpoint of where we are financially walking out of this than I did walking in there, and that I very appreciate both.<\/p>\n<p>[01:13:30]\u00a0<strong>Christina:<\/strong>\u00a0The experience was not what I expected. I thought we would go down different avenues. I thought he would criticize our numbers more. And it\u2019s very comical when you are listening to the podcast and then now you\u2019re in it. It really brought colors out of you that you probably didn\u2019t realize were going to be brought out of you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Christina is 37 and Noah 35. They\u2019re married with one young son and another on the way. They earn a very high income, but their decisions are clouded by stress over money and over the future. Noah plays dream crusher while Christina spins them down a rabbit hole of negative outcomes. This episode is brought [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118890","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118890","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118890"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118890\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118890"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118890"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}