{"id":118913,"date":"2024-04-23T12:45:09","date_gmt":"2024-04-23T16:45:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118913"},"modified":"2026-02-23T15:31:00","modified_gmt":"2026-02-23T19:31:00","slug":"153-allison-dan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/153-allison-dan\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 153. \u201cWe\u2019re married. Why do I have to ask him for money?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe\u2019re married. Why do I have to ask him for money?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/b-5wxiKIUFE\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/59226UvevbVcVzsfzAqV99?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Allison is 36 and Dan, 37. They\u2019re married with two kids living in a HCOL mountain town\u2014a market variable that\u2019s influenced them to sell her condo and supercharge their retirement investments with the profits. The condo is listed for sale, but Dan doesn\u2019t trust her enough to combine their finances.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Mint Mobile | To get your new wireless plan for just $15 a month, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/mintmobile.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/mintmobile.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Tim Ferriss | Check out The Tim Ferriss Show on all podcast platforms and sign up for his FREE 5-Bullet Friday Newsletter at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/tim.blog\/\">https:\/\/tim.blog<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Masterclass | For unlimited access to every class and 15% off an annual membership, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Babbel | For our listeners only, get 60% off your Babbel subscription at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/babbel.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/Babbel.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=IoBXR9pIUzw\">Ramit Sethi on The Tim Ferriss Show<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0What do I have to do for us to join accounts?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:07]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a hard question for me to answer. And the reason being is because I feel like all of the financial burden falls on me within the relationship. She spends all of the money available to her, and then she wants more. I\u2019m trying to be a team player. I don\u2019t even know what we\u2019re spending on groceries, but you keep wanting money from me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:27]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It went back to the feeling like a child or something, or inferior, maybe just like a boss versus the employee. Any comparison like that is how it felt. I felt lower than Dan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:39]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I just feel alone in it. I just feel alone when it comes to money. We\u2019re going to go to bed, and I\u2019m going to feel like it\u2019s all my fault again.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meet Allison and Dan. They\u2019re in their mid-30s. They\u2019ve been married for about four years, and they have a two-and-a-half-year-old and a one-year-old. They live in a very expensive city, Bozeman, Montana, and Allison first approaches me because she\u2019s concerned that they don\u2019t combine their finances. But as I start to ask more questions, it turns out that the real issues here are way more complicated.\u00a0Let\u2019s listen to\u00a0Allison\u00a0and Dan.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:17]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Sitting in our living room, kids were asleep. We were going through a, I don\u2019t even know, our third, fifth, 10th fight about the fact that our finances are separate, how much that bothers me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:29]\u00a0Dan makes double the money, so in my mind, I think that he should have the money to take care of whatever it is. And so I get frustrated in those moments because I wish I could see the money. I wish it was all just our money instead of my money and his money. But I do remember worrying about resentment, feeling like it was going to cause some problems in our relationship moving forward.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What was the first thing you said?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We started it because I wanted to talk about money in couples counseling. So we did that, and the conversation often went down a way that made me feel like a child and he\u2019s the father type thing, which is not great in a romantic relationship. And our last couples therapy session where we talked about this, it got pretty heated, and I think that Dan left that session feeling blamed, essentially.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>What would cause you, Allison, to bring up money in the evening with Dan? Did something happen where you need more money? What was that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:37]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So I need $300 or whatever it is I\u2019m not going to be able to afford this. So then I have to ask Dan for money. So that\u2019s always a challenge. Honestly, that\u2019s actually probably when we\u2019re in the shower, that way I don\u2019t have to make eye contact.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Got it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:54]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0One of the most recent things that I\u2019m thinking of that happened where I was in the shower asking about this class I wanted to take, it was a $400 class, and I didn\u2019t have the money for it. In my mind, I felt like, well, I don\u2019t have the money for it, but we have the money for it. I should be able to take this class that I really want to take because I know we have the money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:20]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0And it\u2019s a sadness, I guess. I don\u2019t know exactly how to put my finger on that feeling.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sadness?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:28]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I know I cried. I know that just thinking about that, not being able to have this thing made me cry.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So when you have these evening conversations about money, they\u2019ve happened several times, do you know they\u2019re coming?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:44]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0She likes to start with statements like, so I was going to buy this. I realized that, I don\u2019t know, like the dental bill was more than I thought it was, so I can\u2019t afford it. And I\u2019m like, we just got on the road. We\u2019re about to start going down the road. And then I just like, okay, we\u2019re going to have this conversation again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s the feeling you have when you hear the kickoff phrase?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:14]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0My initial reaction is like, we\u2019re going to go to bed, and I\u2019m going to feel like it\u2019s all my fault again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. How long have you been married?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:26]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Four years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Four years. How long have you known each other before that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:29]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0A year and a half before that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. All right. So basically you\u2019ve known each other about five, five and a half years. And I understand you have two kids, one year old and two and a half years old.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:41]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Congratulations. That\u2019s a full house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:44]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Walk me through, first of all, your account set up, what does it look like? And then just out of curiosity, how come your accounts are separate?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:54]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0The way they\u2019re set up, I pay 70% of the household bills. I pay the bills, the mortgage, all the subscriptions, electric bill, etc. That comes out of my checking account. And then I also have a savings account attached to that where I just throw 250 in a month. And then the joint checking account is what Allison\u2013 because Allison pays for groceries. That\u2019s her thing that she pays for. And so that\u2019s where that money comes from. And then she has her own checking account for, I guess, whatever she wants to spend it on, bills or\u2013 I don\u2019t know what she uses it for.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Who pays for the baby stuff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:41]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:43]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I pay for anything medical with them. Obviously, my own gas. It\u2019s stuff that I buy. I feel like so far I\u2019m making myself sound like I spend lots of, lots of money, but I like to buy treats, unnecessary\u2013 Dan always calls me out because our pantry has a whole corner of just junk food.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s an example? What\u2019s your favorite?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:08]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0My favorites is chocolate. Anytime something\u2019s seasonal. So Chris\u2019s time, there\u2019s always chocolate mint stuff, so I got to buy the chocolate mint stuff. I fall for that thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. How did you come up with this system that you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:22]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think we came up with it. I think it just happened, to be honest with you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nobody sat down and mapped this out? Because if I were to map this out, this thing is really confusing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:31]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Honestly, it\u2019s more so just\u2013 we moved in together and made a far move together six months into our relationship, and at that point\u2013 I make the majority of the money in our relationship, and that\u2019s just how it\u2019s always been. And everything\u2019s auto pay. You know what I mean? It\u2019s just set it and forget it and you move on with life kind of a thing. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What happens when you have to ask for money? What does that feel like to you, Allison?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:04]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It definitely feels like I\u2019m a child asking for some help from a parent. It doesn\u2019t feel good. Like I messed up. It brings like a lot of shame, those types of feelings, like I should have done better. I could have done this. I could have not spent this money. What did I even buy? Did I really need that thing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You feel shame around money a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:31]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. I don\u2019t know. I\u2019ve talked to my therapist about this. I do in these moments, but not when I\u2019m on Amazon looking at stuff. I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, that tracks. All right. Dan, what does it feel like to you when Allison comes to ask for money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:50]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s a poor way to put it, to be honest with you, because she hasn\u2019t directly been like, hey, I need to borrow\u2013 well, one time. I will say, she\u2019s just like, I need money. It\u2019s not that cut and dry, like, hey, Dan, I overspent. I\u2019m going to need 300 bucks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:09]\u00a0She\u2019s upset because the accounts, like she mentioned before, she knows the money\u2019s there. She knows there\u2019s a few thousand dollars in my checking account. She wants access to that because it\u2019s upsetting to her that she doesn\u2019t have any money. And so she knows that money\u2019s sitting\u2013 so that\u2019s where it goes. It never really is a outright asking for money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Got you. Even with all that being true, how does it feel when she comes and asks? How does it feel to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:38]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I mean, to me, it\u2019s like, how did we get here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:43]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m the type of person to a fault sometimes where I ask a lot of clarifying questions, not to be an a-hole or anything like that, but just more so because I like to have an understanding of, what are we talking about here? It\u2019s more so like when I\u2013 and then I ask those clarifying questions, and then she typically gets frustrated with me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s an example of one of those questions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:06]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Why? When we\u2019re having, not even necessarily an argument, maybe just a discussion about how she feels like a child when she has to ask for money, that\u2019s where my head goes, is so you\u2019re mad at me for asking why you\u2019re purchasing this, but then you feel like a child when you overspend money. It just doesn\u2019t add up. It doesn\u2019t make sense to me. I get frustrated from that stuff, seeing that stuff, new items in the house every single day. It\u2019s like, why does this keep happening?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s a recurring pattern among a lot of couples I speak to where one partner has to ask the other for money. It never feels good, and it creates a really weird, awkward dynamic when it comes to money. But the real answer here is often a lot simpler. Did you catch it? The real answer is that Allison and Dan don\u2019t have a cohesive financial philosophy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:02]\u00a0He pays for certain things. She pays for other things. They never really recalibrate when their income goes up or their expenses go up. It\u2019s just arbitrary, episodic decisions about what he pays for and what she pays for.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:17]\u00a0We\u2019ll\u00a0be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:19]\u00a0Now back to the\u00a0show.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:20]\u00a0Now, there are lots of other clues, but I wanted to dive into why they haven\u2019t combined their income.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:26]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the damn question. So my original vision was we make a joint account and then we put whatever we want into that joint account. I actually put 50% of my paycheck into the joint account and 50% into my personal account and was waiting for Dan to get it on board.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Dan, what do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:44]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It freaks me out because, like with the conversation we had before, where she happens to overspend, it makes me really reluctant to put all of our money in one account because if we\u2019re just going to overspend and not think about it, what could that potentially have happened in the future? Because on the flip side, I don\u2019t spend money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:09]\u00a0I would love to, but I can\u2019t because I am the one who pays for any big thing that happens. Like the tires, for example, she never asked me for money. I just noticed she had tires that were bald and one was flat. So I was like, okay, this is going to be $1,500. I have to cover that expense. We had a dumb, stupid little legal thing that popped up that was $2,500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:33]\u00a0I had to cover that expense. The HVAC broke twice. Each time was 500 bucks. You know what I mean? So it\u2019s that type of stuff that I\u2019m trying to plan for because I want to be warm in my house. It\u2019d be an easy system to have everything in one pot and then maybe have our own little allowances.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:51]\u00a0It\u2019d be a super easy system. I just don\u2019t feel comfortable with it because I haven\u2019t been shown there\u2019s any discipline with money. It scares me to put ourselves at financial risk potentially. If we\u2019re spending an additional $300 per month, which that\u2019s almost two mortgage payments at the end of the year, that\u2019s when she feels like, I\u2019m assuming, that\u2019s when she tells me at least, that she\u2019s starting to feel like I\u2019m talking to her like a child, or she feels like she needs to prove something to me in order to do these accounts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Doesn\u2019t she? Isn\u2019t that what you want?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:30]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And I\u2019ve expressed that to her, and she doesn\u2019t really feel good about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:35]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, we had this whole thing where he wanted me to tell him what all the spending on my credit cards were. And I very spitefully or reluctantly did go through my credit card statements and did Amazon, Walmart, Costco, whatever, and gave him the numbers. It went back to the feeling like a child or something, or inferior, maybe just like a boss versus the employee. Any comparison like that is how it felt. I felt lower than Dan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And then what happened as a result of that? You showed him where the spending was going, then what happened?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:13]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I think it\u2019s a little more complex than that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:17]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Because she didn\u2019t want to put the list together, and she told me that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why do you think she didn\u2019t want to do it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:23]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m assuming probably because it would make her feel small. I guess talking it out, maybe that would make her feel like I\u2019m a parent or like a father figure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you resonate with that? Do you understand that perspective that she has?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:37]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:39]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0But I think the purpose of that wasn\u2019t to do that. And what I expressed to her was, we don\u2019t even know what we\u2019re spending. Let\u2019s get to a square one, and let\u2019s figure it out from there. And she didn\u2019t want to do it, and she told me no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:55]\u00a0And then like she said, she spitefully made a list I don\u2019t even know about, and then I had asked her, and she just did not want to do it. And I\u2019m like, wow. It just hurt me a little bit because it\u2019s like I\u2019m trying to be a team player here. I don\u2019t even know what we\u2019re spending on groceries, but you keep wanting money from me.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Dan is worried that Allison is overspending. Notice he uses words like \u201cfreaks out,\u201d which is not the sign of someone who has a healthy, cool, calm, and methodical relationship with money. To tell you the truth, if I were in Allison\u2019s shoes and my partner said, \u201cOkay, show me where you\u2019re spending your money,\u201d I would feel insulted. I would feel resentful. I would wonder why I had to justify my expenses to my partner, and I would feel small.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:43]\u00a0Now, let me put myself in Dan\u2019s shoes for a second. Maybe I would be concerned because I don\u2019t know where my partner\u2019s money\u2019s going or what their priorities are. I would reframe the whole thing. I would say, you know what? I want for us to be able to have better relationships about money. I don\u2019t want for you to have to come to me and ask for money. That can\u2019t feel good to you, and I don\u2019t\u00a0want to\u00a0set up that dynamic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:06]\u00a0At the same time, I\u00a0want to\u00a0make sure that we are spending our money sensibly to towards the goals we have. So what do you think is a good way for us to do that? The key reframe here is from, you are not doing it right, to, how do we do this together and feel good about it?<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:22]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I looked over the list. I thought it was great that she put it together, and I was like, cool. I really do think $1,500 seems like a lot for groceries. Is there something we can do to reduce spending? Is this just groceries? Am I reading this wrong? Is this also inclusive of gifts or whatever? And then it just turned into the same old fight.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We know that this is a hot topic. The words being thrown around are quite evocative. They\u2019re hot emotions, spiteful, and father figure, small. Let\u2019s just acknowledge this is a hot topic. Regardless of how you got here, you got to the point where you were talking about real numbers. You were looking at real numbers. Regardless of how difficult it was to get there, it was there. Was there any compliments, any acknowledgement from either side in that conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:21]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I thanked her for putting it together and showing me that. I actually felt good seeing it because I\u2019m like, cool I know where we\u2019re at. I know what we\u2019re spending on groceries.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you tell her that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:32]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I did. And actually, after she showed me that\u2013 so we split daycare just because of our messed up split up account situation, and after that, I just pay off all daycare now. I get where she\u2019s coming from. Of course, she doesn\u2019t have any money left.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like that. I appreciate that. I think that\u2019s the right thing to do. That\u2019s the beauty of talking about real numbers, is you can start to get out of the clouds and down on the street. The street is reality. That\u2019s where we live. The clouds is where our worst imaginations run free.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:08]\u00a0Oh my God, it\u2019s not fair. Oh my God, I\u2019m being judged, all that. That\u2019s in the clouds. I always tell my team, we got to go from the clouds to the street. We got to get real, bring it down. Get specific with real numbers, real examples.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:20]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0And then we actually talked about it in therapy. I remember sitting in his truck afterwards and having a conversation about it, and it felt okay. It didn\u2019t feel bad. I actually felt some relief because I also could see the numbers then too, like you\u2019re saying, it\u2019s nice to see it, and his reaction wasn\u2019t like, you suck or anything. He was like, okay, great. Now we know. And it was actually quite relieving, and it wasn\u2019t negative once we had an actual conversation about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:50]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think a big piece of that is the fact that there\u2019s a lot of the underlying stuff still happening.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:57]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, separation of accounts. She\u2019s still upset about that for the reasons she gave. Me still feeling the exact same way about the spending and still seeing\u2013 Allison just said, there doesn\u2019t seem to be, I should say, from my perspective, conscious decision of I\u2019m not going to buy this because\u2013 but I think there\u2019s just a lot of, I know in the application too, she mentioned resentment towards me, and that flares up anger in me just because it\u2019s like, what do you mean you resent me? Doing the CSP, I got really, really upset.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. We\u2019re going to talk about the CSP. We\u2019re going to get to that. Let me echo some of what I saw in the application. \u201cI resent my husband when it comes to money. He wants to save, and I want to spend.\u201d Is it that simple?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels like it sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I just ask a question? Is it possible to do both? Can you save and spend?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:04]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0If there was money left over at the end of the month, yeah. That\u2019s a valid question. I guess we do, but I\u2019m this one saving, she\u2019s the one spending. She spends all of the money available to her, and then she wants more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that accurate, Allison?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:30]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0No. I would never say it that way.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What would you say? Do you spend everything you make?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:40]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0No, but sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So some months I do. I can think of at least two times that he\u2019s had to save me from my own self, but I don\u2019t think I spend all my money every month. No. Ever since Dan took over paying full daycare, I\u2019m finally feeling like I\u2019m able to catch up. I\u2019m hoping that in the next month or two, I can actually be ahead of my credit card as opposed to\u2013 I will spend on my credit card for the month of February and then pay it off in March and be broke. That\u2019s what\u2019s been happening for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, no, no. We\u2019re going to stop talking like this. First of all, you two make too much money to be using the word broke. Number two, how can one partner in a marriage with two kids be broke? That doesn\u2019t make sense to me. Allison, does it make sense to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:35]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s like, no, but I am broke. So can you explain that to me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:39]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, part of it too, I think, is because I\u2019m commission sales.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:44]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0She has stable income. I don\u2019t. It fluctuates month to month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Shouldn\u2019t you be the one saying you\u2019re broke then?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:51]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019d think. Just as an example, we\u2019re in the slow season for me right now, so my paycheck is going to be double what it is this month, next month, just because we\u2019re coming into the busy season and I sell more. So I have to plan for those months ahead of time, along with any accidentals such as lawyer fees, tires, etc.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask you something, Dan? What would it feel like if Allison also planned in the same way that you have to plan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:25]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think she would understand the weight of it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:28]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0She wouldn\u2019t spend the way she does.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what would it be like for your relationship?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:33]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a hard question for me to answer, and the reason being is because I feel like all of the financial burden falls on me within the relationship. If she thought the way I did, I\u2019d fell really safe.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019d feel safe, and what would it feel like for your relationship? Look at my hands. Two people. What would it feel like if she understood how you have to plan ahead with finances? What would that feel like for your relationship?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:03]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It would feel really good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe connective.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:07]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe unified, maybe together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:10]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It doesn\u2019t feel like that right now, right, when it comes to money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:13]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Use your hands. Show me what it feels like to you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:17]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0As far as where we\u2019re currently at with money, I don\u2019t know if my screen\u2019s big enough. Hold on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh wow. Okay. So just to describe, Dan has his hands far apart. There\u2019s a huge gap between the two of you. And that gap\u2013 describe that gap to me, Dan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:34]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s just me. I feel like this falls back into therapy stuff that we\u2019ve worked on, where I come from, and things like that. I just feel alone when it comes to money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s really apt then to describe feeling a sense of togetherness with money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:57]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0When you described that, it made me feel warm inside. When you\u2019re like, if she thought, not even that she did the exact same thing I do, but even if she had an understanding, and things like that, of why I do what I do, it like really made me feel good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. So we know that it\u2019s possible to feel good about money. We know that. Allison, I want to get your reaction to what you just heard Dan say.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:25]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It makes me feel kind of bad, but also good. So it makes me feel bad that he doesn\u2019t feel safe with money when it comes to finances in our relationship and that there is a little bit of a trust issue there when it comes to money. I feel sorry. I feel at fault for that. But also, it\u2019s really nice to hear how good it makes him feel just to even think about the togetherness.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can see how Dan\u2019s mood just changed.\u00a0When I speak to couples, they\u2019ve often rerun the same story over and over for years and years that they\u2019ve become entrenched in these stories. They forget why they originally got together and how good money actually should feel.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:08]\u00a0So it\u2019s a dance. Sometimes I ask one partner to put their foot forward first. Sometimes I ask another partner. That doesn\u2019t mean Allison needs to change everything and take on this burden herself, but you can see from the results of this simple exercise that Dan is suddenly way more receptive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:23]\u00a0Let take a quick pause for a message from our sponsors.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:27]\u00a0Now let\u2019s hear from Allison.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If I were Allison and I were bringing this topic up a lot, I guess I would be wondering when will we combine our accounts? What needs to happen in order for us to combine our accounts? Allison, am I reading that correctly?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:48]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Who decides that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:51]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say Dan because he\u2019s the breadwinner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Dan, would you agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:57]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I just found out about her putting money in the savings account, so this is going to sound somewhat contradictory, but mine was, I like to see some type of, I use the word contribution, which she got really mad at me for using, but just some type of\u2013 it doesn\u2019t even have to be savings, just some type of like, what are we doing to better manage our money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How much did you put in the savings account, Allison?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:24]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It was only $100.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, great. 100 bucks. She put 100 bucks in a savings account. Is that enough?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:29]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Again, I just found out about this, so I\u2019m still like\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, let\u2019s talk about it right now. We\u2019re here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:34]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that enough?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:36]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I mean, I guess for me, it\u2019s like, it\u2019s deeper than that. It\u2019s like, well, is it because of our past conversations? Did they resonate with you within couples therapy and now you see where I\u2019m coming from, so you\u2019re like, wow, Dan feels this huge burden on himself. Maybe I can help alleviate that, and it\u2019ll make him feel like we\u2019re a team. If that\u2019s where it\u2019s coming from, then that\u2019s the motivation I need to be like, okay, cool. We\u2019re starting to get on the same page here with money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:06]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0One of the things we didn\u2019t mention was that fight that we had about the reason why you don\u2019t trust me with money was that you wanted me to save. You remember me telling you I was going to save. I don\u2019t remember committing to it, and then I never saved. So a lot of the reason why\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:26]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, that was most of it. The other half of it was when I found out, I forget what happened, but I was like, it\u2019s okay because you\u2019ve been saving, so we have that money. And you\u2019re like, no, I stopped saving. And I was like, well why? And you said, because that\u2019s my money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:41]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, this is the conversation where it goes to two different\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:46]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s what broke the trust thing that you speak of, that\u2019s coming from.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:50]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So you and I have talked about this fight or this instance multiple times, and one of your things was that you wanted me to save money. That was the thing. So I started saving money because I knew you wanted me to, and I was trying to rebuild the trust from when you said that it was broken. And you\u2019re right, I didn\u2019t tell you because I was just going to see if I could do it before I told you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:15]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s fair. I get that. I guess that, to me, would be a cool discussion between us. I\u2019d excited if you said me\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:27]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, telling you that I saved money. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:28]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I\u2019d be like I\u2019d be jacked up about it. Even thinking about it now just makes me happy because it\u2019s like, cool. It\u2019s important to you to want to rebuild the trust because I know very much so because you\u2019ve expressed to me that you don\u2019t feel that you did from your perspective. And that\u2019s fair. But hearing you say that, \u201cI recognize that regardless of what I think, I broke Dan\u2019s trust in this way. I want to rebuild that trust, and it\u2019s important to me.\u201d That means a lot to me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:59]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s accurate. That\u2019s exactly how I feel.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I like all of that. I love hearing the two of you connect about that and also reflect that, yeah, talking about money can make you feel good, especially when you\u2019re being proactive with it. I think that\u2019s awesome. Where do you go from here?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is all a little messy. First, Dan says that he wants Allison to save money. Then Allison does save money, but Dan says it\u2019s not enough, which really reveals that this isn\u2019t about saving money at all.\u00a0It\u2019s all too confusing. There\u2019s no real shared Rich Life vision. It\u2019s just one punitive action after another, and it\u2019s reliving the same stories over and over.\u00a0That\u2019s why I stopped here and I asked them, where do you\u00a0want to\u00a0go?<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:45]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0What do I have to do for us to join accounts?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:49]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I just need to build my comfortability level with your spending and maybe understand you a little more on\u2013 because use you talked about this with your personal therapy, maybe I just need to understand where this is coming from from you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:07]\u00a0Maybe that\u2019ll make me feel a little bit better about the spending because I want to be able to spend too, and I don\u2019t get to. And I think that I would feel comfortable combining accounts when we can come to an agreement on, this is how we\u2019re going to pay bills, this is how much money we\u2019re going to allocate to each other. And then whatever savings or whatever you decide to do. I don\u2019t know if that answers the question, but I just feel really uncomfortable about it, and I\u2019m working on regaining that comfort.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:43]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I was just going to say, do you know what you need to feel comfortable?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:50]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think no, not right this second. No. It really bothers me because, and Ramit said this, like, they\u2019re big words that you use when you describe money and me, and it feels like, looking\u2013 I know you said we\u2019re going to talk about the CSP later, but like just looking at those numbers, I was just like, I don\u2019t understand how you could feel this way about me when all of my fun money I\u2019d never get to have fun with, ever. It\u2019s really hurtful. Like I said to you that night after completing it, I feel very hurt, and I think you feel justified in my hurt.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Notice that they are living in the past. They have these old stories that they are reliving. Their emotions are vivid, salient, really hot, and I\u2019m glad that they are seeing a therapist, but in this conversation about money, I need to focus on the future.\u00a0So I decided to look at their conscious spending plan. You can follow along. Get my free template for the Conscious Spending Plan at iwt.com\/csp.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:59]\u00a0Take a look at their numbers. Assets, just over a million dollars.\u00a0Investments, just about $35,000; savings, $7,500; net worth, $601,000. But there\u2019s a very important twist that\u2019s about to have a big effect on their numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:19]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It doesn\u2019t feel real.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What does that mean to you? It doesn\u2019t feel real.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:25]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0When we were doing it, some of it\u2019s our cars and like, well, those depreciate. It doesn\u2019t really matter too much. So we have our house and a condo, and we\u2019re planning on selling the condo, so it\u2019s going to change.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:39]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s a lot of money. I would\u2019ve never thought that that was our net worth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:43]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree with her on the car thing. The house thing I\u2019ve read a lot of your Instagram posts about leasing and owning, but I think with our homes, with the market that we\u2019re in, we\u2019re making a lot of money when like we\u2019re selling the condo for that very reason. We\u2019re able to sell it and allocate a lot of funds to good things. So I feel good about it. I think it\u2019s more than I thought it was going to be.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Before we go onto the rest, I want to make sure I understand the condo situation. So from what I understand, Allison, you owned a condo before you got married. It\u2019s actually making you money every single month with tenants.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:23]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Can I ask a couple of questions about that? So how much are you making every month from the condo?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:31]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So we were charging $1,900 a month. It\u2019s currently empty because we\u2019re selling it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah, okay. Got it. What\u2019s the total cost mortgage and all that stuff per month?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:45]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s on my bills as 11 something.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. All right, so let\u2019s just say 1,100 for easy math, and you were making 1,900.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ballpark.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:58]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fine. Let\u2019s go to income. This time, Allison, walk us through your gross combined monthly income.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:08]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a015,683.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you say you live in Montana?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:14]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You make $188,000 in Montana.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:18]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0In Bozeman, Montana.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh,\u00a0shit. Okay. All right. I was like, wait, not Bozeman. Is Bozeman considered a high cost of living?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:29]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:29]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right, fine. So it\u2019s a good income. Would you agree that\u2019s a high income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:36]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you bought the condo before you got married, Allison. How did you discuss what was going to happen with the condo now that you\u2019re married? Did you do a prenup?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:57]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We didn\u2019t do a prenup. I mentioned a prenup. I did very briefly, but no, we didn\u2019t do a prenup.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, how do you mention a prenup and not do a prenup?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Quick aside on prenups. Prenups are appropriate if one or both partners is bringing a significant amount of premarital assets into the marriage, like an investment portfolio, a business, or real estate. I covered my own prenup journey on the Tim Ferriss podcast where I discussed how my wife and I went through the prenup process.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:28]\u00a0If you\u2019re curious, you can search Tim Ferriss Ramit Sethi Prenup, and listen to that episode. In Allison\u2019s case, I would\u2019ve advised that she sign a prenup before they got married, but that ship has sailed. There is another option, by the way, called a post-up if anyone is interested.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:42]\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:44]\u00a0Now back to\u00a0Allison and Dan.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So how did you decide what was going to happen with this condo once you were married?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:51]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, we actually moved away from this area and weren\u2019t married, so we rented it, because I rented it, and we had it as an asset. We didn\u2019t really have a plan for it, and then we ended up moving back here and we actually moved into it. So it was nice to have in that sense. And then we were considering selling it to buy this place that we currently live in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:15]\u00a0But we wanted to try to get rental income if we could keep both and use that as an investment because we do live in a really expensive area, and the amount I paid for it and the interest that I had on it is worth hanging onto to see what happened.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And why did you decide now to sell it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:36]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t want to be landlords<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, wait. Hold on. Why is that? It\u2019s passive income. Free. No work. Just wake up and the money comes in. That\u2019s what they told me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:47]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, right. Exactly. Yeah. No late night calls or anything. We don\u2019t want to be landlords. Honestly, from your stuff helped me realize that we do not have any retirement savings. We\u2019re way behind on that. So my plan was always to put a good six figures towards retirement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Got you. How much do you think you\u2019re going to sell the condo for, and how much will you make from it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:12]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re hoping to sell it for 410, and after all expenses, assuming capital gains tax is something like 20%, we should make 206,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nice. Okay. And you feel that\u2019s pretty realistic with the market and interest rates and all that stuff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:32]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. Okay, good. Nice job. That\u2019s great. I like that you got it. You tried out being a landlord, and you also were like, hey, we\u2019re making a profit, but this isn\u2019t for me. There are lots of ways to make money, lots.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:50]\u00a0I think it\u2019s great if you had told me like, oh, we\u2019re profiting and we\u2019re making 700 bucks a month, I would\u2019ve said also fantastic. That\u2019s great. I don\u2019t mind somebody having rental property. That\u2019s fine. I just want them to run the numbers. Okay, great. So you potentially are going to make 200,000 bucks. And when is that going to happen?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:10]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It has been on the market for less than a week now. We haven\u2019t had any offers yet, but we\u2019re hoping March or April we\u2019ll get that money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. Are you fine if you make 150,000 instead of 206,000?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:27]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0No, not really.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You wouldn\u2019t sell it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:32]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh. What would you need to make in order to sell it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:38]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I would want to sell it for 400,000, so we\u2019re talking that would be 50,000 less than I\u2019d sell it for or than I want. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:48]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I want to sell it for 400. That will double what I paid for it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Who makes the decision on whether to sell it or not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:56]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say it\u2019s a team, but I think because it\u2019s mine, Dan would agree that it\u2019s ultimately my decision, but whatever\u2019s best for the family would probably be the answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:06]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0We talked about that, and 100%, it\u2019s totally up to her. It\u2019s not my condo. It\u2019s plain and simple. So even when she was having a little bit of cold feet and stuff, I was like, it\u2019s your call. Because we share the landlord stuff, so we can just keep doing that. I don\u2019t want to, but it\u2019s totally her call.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And the income that came in before, so the roughly seven, 800 bucks a month, what\u2019d you do with that money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:34]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0That just sat in an account, and then we use it here and there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Huh? For what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:40]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, nothing to do with the condo. We did have to use it to buy a new oven, but we took about\u2013 do you remember how much we took out to buy my car?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:49]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a05,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:50]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It was five? Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:52]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0We took five out the savings account.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, so we took money out of it when we needed to spend on something big, usually.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. Otherwise it just sat there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:05]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it just sat there.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I just have to jump in here. Do you notice how the same patterns from their personal finances are also present with the condo? Notice Allison\u2019s passivity around signing a prenup. Notice the convoluted account structures. Notice the clear lack of ownership. Who owns the decision? It\u2019s not just their personal finances, it\u2019s the condo, and I suspect a lot of other parts of their life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:33]\u00a0Deep down the way that they treat money goes way deeper than any individual expense or investment. It\u2019s really the set of lenses through which they see the entire world of money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:45]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, then you\u2019ve been paying your car payment with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:47]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What? What the hell? Why\u2019d you do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:53]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So we, in Montana, don\u2019t have any maternal leave pay or anything. So when I went on leave with our last kid, I moved it over to there since I had no income and it started just coming out of that account, and then it just stayed there still.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. Sloppy. This is too sloppy for me. It\u2019s driving me crazy. Allison, what\u2019s this number right here, combined fixed costs?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:19]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a075%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think of that number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:22]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s way too high.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s too high. What should it be?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:26]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a050 or 60.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have two car payments. Uh-oh. The $445 car payment, what is that, Allison? What kind of car?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:34]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s including gas. That\u2019s a Ford Explorer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh God. We got to talk about this. Why\u2019d you buy a Ford?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:42]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I knew you were going to give us crap. We both have Fords too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:45]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s Dan. Dan cares about it. We were going to get a Toyota. They\u2019re so expensive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You were going to buy a Toyota and you bought a Ford instead?\u00a0What the fuck?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:55]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0In Bozeman, Montana, Toyotas are twice as much as anywhere else in the country. I swear God.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Toyota what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:01]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I want Toyota. I did. I can\u2019t afford it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on, everyone. This is going on the front page of Yahoo Finance. Couple who makes $188,000 a year cannot afford a Toyota.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:14]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0The 4Runner is 80 grand here. It\u2019s nuts.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so fine. This 445 includes gas. Okay, fine. That\u2019s a Ford Explorer. And then what do you have, Dan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:24]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Ford F-150.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why do you have a truck? What do you do for a living?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:28]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I sell insurance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, you definitely need a truck for that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:31]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I hunt a lot too and put dead animals to the back of it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Where\u2019s your insurance? Is that under your insurance number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:41]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It is, yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. How come there\u2019s only insurance for one?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:46]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0He is the one paying it, so we just put it under.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He pays for both. Okay. I just want to show you there\u2019ll be multiple elements of these, but in order to buy your car, Allison, you took 5,000 from the joint account, 5,000 from your condo account, and then he pays the insurance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:09]\u00a0It\u2019s hard to feel good about money when you can\u2019t even understand what\u2019s going on with your accounts. All right, well, it\u2019s a lot of money you\u2019re spending on your car, but let\u2019s continue moving on. Debt. What is this debt? $75.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:23]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0That is from when I borrowed against my 401k to buy my condo.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the\u00a0fuck? What? Why did you do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:32]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I didn\u2019t know any better. I needed an extra 10k.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you going to pay that back when you get the condo sold?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:40]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, fine. All right. It ended up working out for you. Probably don\u2019t borrow against your 401k ever again. Okay?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:51]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can somebody read this number for groceries? Let\u2019s say perhaps the primary grocery buyer. Allison, what\u2019s that number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:01]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0$1,500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so listen, you have two kids who are very young. Let\u2019s give you some credit for needing to spend money on food, but not 1,500 bucks. How much should that be realistically?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:16]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it could easily be 1,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is it that you are there spending?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:24]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. This must be like the\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you mean? You did the report.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:27]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0The treats and stuff. Yeah, but it wasn\u2019t itemized receipts. It was Walmart, this much money. Costco, this much money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Should we look right now? You have the app, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:39]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Like a credit card?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, what do you have on your phone? First of all, do you have the Walmart, Target, or Costco app on your phone?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:46]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0The Walmart I do purchases from. I could look at a Walmart app.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How did I know? All right, pull it up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:59]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What do we need to look at here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:02]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Here\u2019s something unusual. Love Note Marshmallows for Valentine\u2019s Day, Hershey\u2019s Hugs white chocolate Valentine thing, heart lollipops.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:15]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0$2, $4, $1.25.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. This isn\u2019t it. This doesn\u2019t get you to 1,500 a month, truthfully. Honestly, the two of you make $188,000. If you want to buy some Valentine\u2019s candy, you shouldn\u2019t think twice. That\u2019s not the problem. What is it that\u2019s getting you to 1,500 a month? Dan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:40]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not the candy. I 100% agree with you. It\u2019s like the other stuff. I\u2019m trying to think like toys for the kids, stuffies for the kids, the laundry basket things for the dryer that cost $17 a piece, but we buy two of them in a month. It\u2019s a lot of cumulative things that if you really break down, because I\u2019m with\u2013 and I know you talked about this in your book and things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:09]\u00a0I agree. You should be able just to buy little things like that. It doesn\u2019t matter. It\u2019s not going to make or break you. But when that equates to $100 a month, that\u2019s the difference. And part of that report, like you mentioned, it wasn\u2019t in the report, you\u2019re exactly right. That\u2019s what I wanted to see.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think deep down you believe that if I just get this magical information, then it will all make sense and then I\u2019ll feel different. Not going to happen. No chart is going to make you feel different. I promise you that. I do think that changing the way the two of you talk about money has helped and will help.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:45]\u00a0I also think that, Allison, you need to take ownership of certain expenses here, and you need to hit a number. Now, if you want to show a report and you want to report that to Dan, go ahead. That\u2019s up to you two. But that\u2019s not really what Dan cares about. Dan doesn\u2019t really care if you report it or not. Dan cares about that number going down to a number that the two of you need to agree on. Whether or not you get a report is irrelevant. You just need that number to go down. Correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:14]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Allison, what do you say? Are you willing to do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:18]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s just go onto the investments. Oh, never mind. That\u2019s fast. What\u2019s the number here under investments, Allison?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:28]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Zero.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. Dan, you want to add anything?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:33]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess just a question because 401Ks, right, we both have one now, but it says post-tax returns. We didn\u2019t put anything in there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So basically how much are you contributing per year ballpark?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:46]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Ballpark would be about 4,500 bucks, so not a ton of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. That\u2019s better than nothing. How about for you, Allison? Ballpark, how much are you contributing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:57]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m looking at it right now. It\u2019s like 173, so whatever that math is, 2,000?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a02,000 a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:05]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Savings is at 2%. What is this? Why is it low?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:14]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We just don\u2019t have an actual plan. Dan\u2019s the only one that regularly puts away the 250, and I\u2019m trying to do 100. I just wrote 50 just to cover my\u00a0ass, like I\u2019m trying to do something. But yeah, I\u2019m not doing anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:27]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Mine, I just set it up. It\u2019s an automatic pull. Every month, 250. Just something that I know. I just treat it like a bill.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s good. That\u2019s actually 80% of it right there. So do we need to drop one of your incomes here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:42]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, we need to drop mine by $1,900.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so what I did was I dropped your income by 1,900 gross and net. Everybody on the internet is going to leave 5 million comments about how that\u2019s not accurate. I really don\u2019t care. That\u2019s not the point. You are within a few percentage points. You can fix the details later. We just want to get the overall thrust. What we see is that your fixed costs are now at 89%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:05]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0But we\u2019ll have to get rid of my mortgage payment.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s right. Let\u2019s drop.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:09]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, my debt payment.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Very good. So we\u2019re going to drop your mortgage out. So I just want to point out that right now you\u2019re still at 77% fixed costs. That\u2019s a problem. Let\u2019s do a little bit more fixing. These groceries, no\u00a0fucking\u00a0way. No one\u2019s spending $1,500 a month because they just don\u2019t even know what they\u2019re buying. Give me a number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:30]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a01,000 is definitely enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a01,000 takes you to 72%. Everyone got really quiet all of a sudden.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:42]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Daycare. That\u2019s the problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I understand. Daycare is expensive. How long will you have to spend on daycare?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:50]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Another three years for our oldest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so it\u2019s a long time. Let\u2019s just keep it in there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:57]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, fine. Look, sometimes, especially for young parents of young children, your fixed costs are going to be higher than normal. That\u2019s going to happen. We have to accept it. That\u2019s reality. So we\u2019re going to have to figure out other things to do. Sure, it certainly helps to have 100 or $200,000 coming in the door in a second. But let\u2019s leave that out of it for now. Are you going to travel, eat out, all this stuff, more or less than average?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:29]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably less. I think we do less than average. It\u2019s expensive to go out with kids. It\u2019s a pain in the\u00a0ass\u00a0to go out with a 1-year-old, so we don\u2019t really do much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bingo. So this is my point.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:39]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Sitters aren\u2019t cheap.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, this is my point. If you have this constraint, young children, embrace it. You are like, oh\u00a0shit. The next 18 months, we\u2019re really not going to go out to eat that much. It\u2019s a pain. So therefore we\u2019re going to cook at home. So instead of battling against it every single day for the next two years, you go, no, this is the season of life we\u2019re in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:03]\u00a0We\u2019re going to be at home right now just for the next couple of years until they get a little bit older, we get more comfortable, and we can afford it, etc. It\u2019s like a judo move. You\u2019re not fighting against an opponent. You\u2019re going, yeah. Okay, you want to punch me? Cool. I\u2019ll pull you towards me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:19]\u00a0And then after we hit a couple of our numbers, we fill up our emergency fund, we\u2019ll have more money to redirect to our guilt-free spending. And that will be a couple of years from now. That\u2019s how it works.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There are specific seasons of life where your numbers might go outside the recommended guidelines of the conscious spending plan. Young parents are a prime example. They have a baby. Suddenly they realize, oh my God, I didn\u2019t anticipate all these expenses. One or both parents might take a step back at work. Expenses are up, income is down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:51]\u00a0Suddenly, they\u2019re freaking out about what\u2019s happening with their conscious spending plan. If you\u2019re in this case, here\u2019s my suggestion to you. Keep saving, keep investing, but give yourself a little bit of flexibility.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:02]\u00a0For example, if you were saving 10%, maybe take that number down to 6% temporarily. Give yourself a little bit of freedom to be able to spend on all these new expenses. If you were investing 12%, take that number down to 8%, even 6%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:19]\u00a0Just keep at least something being automatically saved and automatically invested every single month, even if you have to reduce that number. And try to aim to get back to where you were within three years. The point is to have a plan, but be flexible if life calls for it.\u00a0Now let\u2019s take a look at the condo sale and how this is\u00a0going to\u00a0affect them.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:40]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0The 100k potentially going towards retirement is nice to know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ooh, you want to talk about that? Now we can bring that up. Okay. I like it. So you told me that you\u2019re going to make how much selling this place?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Hopefully 206,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are you going to do with the money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:01]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So the plan is 100k to target-date fund, like Vanguard or something. 10k per kid, so 20k for college funds. And then we were going to probably pay off Dan\u2019s trucks since it has interest, and buy ourselves something which would be like a mattress and a water softener. And then the rest is going to go into high yield savings or maybe more towards investments. We\u2019ll just see what we have after that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:29]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No problem. All right. Let\u2019s see. Allison, write down your percentages for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:36]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So I did invest 50%, 20% for kids, which might also be an investment, save 20%, and 10% fun.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:46]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I guess I would just do\u2013 I honestly, I like what she said. I agree with what she said.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:52]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about that for a second. So invest 50%. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:57]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Because of our lack of retirement savings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what that tells me is you are sending a signal to yourself and to yourselves as a couple that investing is the most important thing we can do. That\u2019s the message. You send yourselves messages about what\u2019s important. You do it by what you eat, you do it by what you wear, you do it by where you allocate your money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:30]\u00a0And for you to tell me 50% investments is a very strong signal. I approve. I appreciate it. I have the same highest proportion goes to investments. I think that\u2019s fantastic. Next, you have kids at 20%. To put 20% of your money aside from kids, tell me about that. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:49]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We just want to put some money away for college. If there was extra, it could go towards buying their first car. I don\u2019t know. I just want to make sure I can provide for them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:58]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s important to me to have something to give to my kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then finally, fun is at 10%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:06]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a010% fun doesn\u2019t sound great, but when you look at the actual number, it\u2019s, not bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, it\u2019s not bad at all. Keep in mind, let\u2019s keep in mind this is additional unexpected income. These numbers are always different. These are my numbers for unexpected income. 75% goes to investments, 10% to savings to be spent within 12 months. So it\u2019s pretty much a vacation almost always. Next is 10% to lifestyle improvements. And I have a list of lifestyle of improvements that I want or we want. And then finally, 5% to long-term savings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:54]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0What is a lifestyle improvement? What\u2019s your definition of that when you say that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019ll be somebody to mow my lawn, somebody to do laundry. Or if you have somebody come and clean the house, instead of coming once a month, they come once every two weeks, or once every week or whatever the frequency you want.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:12]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I got you. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Haircut, whatever. What do you take away from my numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:20]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, we trust you, so I would want to copy you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, no, no, no, no. Don\u2019t copy me. These are my numbers, but I think it\u2019s useful to talk about them. Don\u2019t feel pressured that you\u2019re doing something wrong. You\u2019re not. Your numbers are not wrong. They\u2019re just yours. But what else do you notice about my numbers?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:39]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re taking care of yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:43]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0With the lifestyle changes and the vacation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Yeah. Let\u2019s start with the big number. What\u2019s the big number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:51]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Investing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:52]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Investing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And it\u2019s huge. Huge. So what message am I sending to myself?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:00]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0That that\u2019s the most important thing to you, is to make sure that you\u2019re investing in yourself, you and your wife are investing in yourselves.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:09]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Planning for the future for yourselves too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bingo. There you go. And by the way, I plugged in your old numbers here. I just want to show you, it\u2019s getting a little sloppy, but I don\u2019t mind.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:16]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, we got to take the rent and mortgage out from that one.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Zero this out. 67%. Hey, this is good. It\u2019s higher than I want, but it\u2019s still good. It\u2019s still good. I don\u2019t mind it. I\u2019ll tell you why. One, we know that daycare is particularly expensive and it\u2019s a thing that at least daycare itself will end at a certain point.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:42]\u00a0Two, look at your investments. That\u2019s a nice, nice number. And again, I\u2019m not even counting the healthy number you\u2019re going to put in from the sale of the condo. Three, look at\u2013 oh, savings. This is not good. What needs to happen here again?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:55]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We have 1,200.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Exactly. So that\u2019s at 12%. That is nice. Very nice. And then look at this, everything else at 11%, which is day to day. It\u2019s a little restrictive, but what are you doing anyway? Take it. Use it for a date night. Get one toy every few months, and you\u2019re good. Truthfully, this isn\u2019t the time to be spending a huge amount of money, with the exception of a nice summer trip. You want to take it? Take it because you got the money from the condo.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:39]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that sounds good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:42]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels good. I like that there\u2019s a priority to it. I really like how you talked about like, this is a signal to you that making these moves, even though it might be with a random chunk of money we\u2019re getting, I think we can still use that with our just income as a foundation to build on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:05]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s relieving to know that we actually can\u2019t afford to save and invest some money. It just didn\u2019t feel like we could.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:10]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0We know we can.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I do think that the crux of this working is the two of you combining your accounts. So let explain why. When you are separate, especially being married with two kids, you develop these peculiar ways of handling money. I pointed out how the car payments were made and you do this and I do that. It\u2019s all becomes really weird. To an outsider, I\u2019m like, it\u2019s too confusing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:41]\u00a0You\u2019re not really sending the right signals to each other. If you were to combine your accounts, dramatically simplify, both of you come up with a few key rules. Rules are not a negative restrictive thing, but rather like\u2013 like when I sat down and started talking to my wife about money and we developed our vision together, my vision was, I don\u2019t want to have to look at the prices when we go out to eat.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:13]\u00a0What I primarily care about is that we are saving and investing a high percentage. If we\u2019re hitting that, the rest is irrelevant to me. Can I show you a couple of investment numbers that might help you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:29]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, please.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:29]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s going to be 135,000. Right? That\u2019s how much? You have 35,000, and you\u2019re about to put 100,000, so it\u2019s 135,000. 1,000 a month. And how long do we want to say that grows? 30 years?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:42]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:43]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, let\u2019s go with 30. I think that\u2019s good math.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What percent should we put here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:48]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Seven.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Nice. How much do you think it\u2019s going to be?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:51]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0A million. No, it\u2019s going be more than that. The 100,000 was 700.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:55]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m just going to say 1.1 to my\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:01]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s close.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, let\u2019s take a look. 1.1. Wow. You may be the first couple who ever got the number right. That\u2019s amazing. That\u2019s not easy.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:10]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Your book spells it out, Ramit.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:12]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Does that say annual addition? Wouldn\u2019t we put be putting more than that annually?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, shit.\u00a0You\u2019re right. I totally miscalculated that. That\u2019s monthly.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:21]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So we are way off too.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We are all off. Okay, let\u2019s fix it. All right. Let\u2019s go back.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:26]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m really excited right now.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh my God, this is huge. Are you ready? It\u2019s not 1,000. It\u2019s 12,000 a year. Whoa.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:37]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0Done. We can retire.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:40]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a02.24. Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a02.24 million. Instead of 12,000 a year, let\u2019s make it 15. That\u2019s not too hard if you wanted to. Now we\u2019re at 2.69. What are you all taking away from this?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:58]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0That selling the condo is a great idea, and investing the money is a great idea. It\u2019s almost like we have to figure out what makes more sense. If we upfront put down more than the 100 and then saved up separately for the kids some other way. That\u2019s better to put that big chunk.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:15]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0Or, to that same point, I was going to say, maybe put a small chunk in to get it started so it starts building. And just like I do with the pay yourself first with your bill, just monthly contribute for the next 18 years, and then\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You could do that. You could totally make it a line item. Put 100 bucks a month away or whatever number makes sense under your plan. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:39]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0It just feels so nice and refreshing to be able to talk about it and feel like we\u2019re on the same page. It makes me feel closer to him as his wife, which I know it sounds ridiculous, but it\u2019s such a big deal. Money\u2019s such a big deal.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Before I share their follow-ups, let me tell you what I noticed about Allison and Dan.\u00a0First off, not everyone has the chance to have a condo that doubles in value, which will seemingly solve all of their money problems. Well, at least the numbers on the page, so I want to acknowledge that.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:08]\u00a0But if we take the condo and put it aside, what I see are some recurring patterns from many of the guests that I speak to. Strong feelings about money, not communicating about money or ever getting on the same page, no Rich Life vision that is shared between the two of them. And in fact, a confusing account structure that\u2019s not bringing them together.\u00a0It\u2019s actually setting them apart.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:33]\u00a0They were reliving the same stories over and over. Resentment, inequality, even feeling like a child having to ask for money. But when we cleared the cobwebs and all these confusing accounts, what we realized was that they will have more money than they ever thought possible. This is what\u2019s so similar among other couples.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:53]\u00a0This focus on small, insignificant 3-dollar questions, never zooming up to look at the big picture and the 30,000-dollar questions and realize that if you focus on just a few big wins, you can live a richer life than you ever thought possible.\u00a0Now let\u2019s see what Allison said in her follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:09]\u00a0<strong>Allison:<\/strong>\u00a0So I learned that selling the condo was a really good idea. It\u2019s going to set us up for success more so than I really ever thought. I was surprised how Ramit kept saying how sloppy our situation was. It\u2019s just not the way I looked at it. I don\u2019t love it, but sloppy was just an interesting word to me, and I was surprised that that\u2019s what he thought of it. I\u2019m going to try to start paying attention to how I spend. I\u2019m going to try to set a goal of 250 per week on groceries and just see how that goes. And then I\u2019m also going to try not to spend emotionally, which I think I do.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now Dan\u2019s follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:45]\u00a0<strong>Dan:<\/strong>\u00a0As far as what I learned from meeting with you and going over everything is really that numbers help create clarity and structure when we\u2019re trying to figure out finances and everything. Based on using your CSP, I feel comfortable that we\u2019re going to be able to retire and still be able to take care of our kids in their futures, college, and things that are important to us.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:08]\u00a0What would surprise me the most is how important transparency and communication can really be between Allison and I, which shouldn\u2019t come to us as a surprise, but it did. But especially when planning for long term goals, I can see how important it is, but with a actual shared vision for that future that we can both buy into and grow together. So again, thanks, Ramit.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Allison is 36 and Dan, 37. They\u2019re married with two kids living in a HCOL mountain town\u2014a market variable that\u2019s influenced them to sell her condo and supercharge their retirement investments with the profits. The condo is listed for sale, but Dan doesn\u2019t trust her enough to combine their finances. This episode is brought to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118913","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118913","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118913"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118913\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118913"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118913"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}