{"id":118917,"date":"2024-04-02T12:57:27","date_gmt":"2024-04-02T16:57:27","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118917"},"modified":"2026-02-23T15:31:32","modified_gmt":"2026-02-23T19:31:32","slug":"150-elizabeth-jonathan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/150-elizabeth-jonathan\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 150. \u201cWe\u2019re broke, but I spend $350\/mo on clothes\u201d (Part 2)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe\u2019re broke\u2026but I spend $350\/mo on clothes\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/nfbaDoKmtbM\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/3SJTIvQOR6zoa2NClJURWb?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>In part two with Elizabeth and Jonathan, 36 and 38, we continue unpacking their complicated personal backgrounds with money as they relate to current spending, investing, and saving habits. They\u2019re stuck in a loop of debt and financial stress, but are they ready to make positive changes?<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Sidebar | Join thousands of leaders from companies like Microsoft, Amazon, and Meta who have taken the first step towards accelerating their career\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/sidebar.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/sidebar.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Trade | Right now, Trade is offering our audience a free bag of coffee with any subscription at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/drinktrade.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/drinktrade.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Netsuite | Get visibility to everything in your business one one place. Sign up and defer payments, with no interest, for six months at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/netsuite\">https:\/\/iwt.com\/netsuite<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Masterclass | For unlimited access to every class and 15% off an annual membership, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/149-elizabeth-jonathan\/\">\u201cWe have no savings but bought our kid a $500 toy for Christmas\u201d (Part 1)<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve always put myself last as far as I want things for my daughter, for my husband.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I just want to reiterate. You have $25,000 in credit card debt, and you spend $350 in a month on clothes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:13]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I should not be buying more clothes. I have plenty.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not here to beat you up or berate you. That\u2019s not my job. That\u2019s not what I do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:20]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s just not enough money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:23]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve tried to get out of debt many times, and we never get out of debt ever. That\u2019s why it keeps accumulating. It just keeps getting worse.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why have you created a life where you have to do this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:35]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably because we didn\u2019t value ourselves enough to create something good. We created something bad because that\u2019s what we thought we deserved.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. You think you deserve a bad life?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:52]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Some days, not all days.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:55]\u00a0<strong>Narration:<\/strong>\u00a0[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Welcome back to part two of my conversation with Elizabeth and Jon. Recall that they are in their mid 30s. They have an 8-year-old daughter, and they can\u2019t seem to figure out why they struggle to save money. They have fallen into this pattern of paying some bills, but letting others go late. And they are rotating things while Elizabeth desperately tries to manage the money using a notepad where she tracks random expenses.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:22]\u00a0Last week, we left at a pretty dark moment where they were just starting to realize how serious their situation is. Today we\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0get back into that conversation. We\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0go over their numbers, and I think you\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0be surprised. I wanted to know, what is it\u00a0going to\u00a0take in order for Jonathan and Elizabeth to get serious about making a change?<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:44]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I\u2019d like Jon to be more honest. I think he hides his true feelings a lot, and he buries them deep down. When I ask you to be honest with me, I don\u2019t think you\u2019re being honest with me. That\u2019s why I ask you are you being honest a lot? Because I know you\u2019re not, I can tell that you are holding back, and I need you to actually be honest with me and tell me the truth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:11]\u00a0I need you to help me in a way that you don\u2019t currently help me. Everything else you do is great, but I need you to be in it with me, so I\u2019m not doing this by myself, because I feel like I\u2019ve been doing it by myself for a long time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:35]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I have held back for the fear of the fight.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:47]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:48]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m willing to stand there with you if you\u2019re willing to hear me honestly and actually take my thoughts into consideration when it comes to the finances. I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m always heard when we do talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:10]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s probably true. I\u2019m very stubborn and set in my ways, and I know I need to change that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:17]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0And that\u2019s a big part of why I\u2019ve been passive all this time. Why say anything if what I\u2019m going to say is just going to fall to the floor? I feel terrible that I\u2019ve let it go for this long, and I still do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:33]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We shouldn\u2019t have got the pony. And sometimes I do, I don\u2019t want to say ignore you, but maybe it is. I ignore you. I ignore what you have to say because I have in my mind what we should do, and I should take your thoughts into consideration more. Sorry.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:58]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Sorry, I haven\u2019t been here for you. I should have worked harder.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you both. How did that feel?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:05]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:05]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When was the last time you had a conversation like that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:12]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s been a hot minute.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jon, I think you did a great job right there. You were proactive. You acknowledged where you have not done a great job. You also said what you want. I want to be heard. I want to be listened to. I think that was great. You gave an example. All that was fantastic. Elizabeth, how do you think you might have to radically reconceptualize how you show up with money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:39]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I am going to have to loosen the reins of the control that I have over everything and over money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Let\u2019s use a different phrase, shall we? \u201cLoosen the reins,\u201d that implies you are still totally in control?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:55]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Do, That\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you want a passive person in your marriage?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:00]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Then what\u2019s the real word you want to use?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:04]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to share the burden.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There you go. There you go. Oh, wait, wait. It was so good until you used the word\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:11]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0The word burden.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why is money a burden? Try that again. You\u2019re so close. I want to share\u2013 go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:17]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to share the financial responsibility with him.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah, so good. So good. So good. That\u2019s really good. Words matter. They are our destiny. If you are sharing, now, suddenly, you have a partner who can take some of the load on, who can also inspire you and help you. And both of you can hold each other accountable, all that. You can dream together. And it\u2019s not a burden alone. It might be a burden in the short term. Okay. But it\u2019s a responsibility. That\u2019s what money is. It\u2019s a responsibility, and it can also be a pleasure. We share that, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:57]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, good. How else are you going to have to radically reconceptualize how you show up with money, Elizabeth?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:04]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably give up my notebook.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Can we use a different word besides give up? Give up implies you lose, you surrender.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:16]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not giving up. I want to change the way I view money, change the way that I spend money, change the way that I save money. I need to change everything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Manage money, monitor. I love it. Okay, great. And what about the spending? Talk to me about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:37]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to have to stop it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, stop? Just stop?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:42]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Stop spending, no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Just like that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:44]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No. It\u2019s not going to be just like that. I wish it were that easy, but no, it\u2019s not. I know it\u2019s not because I\u2019ve been trying for a long time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Here\u2019s the thing about trying and trying and trying and not getting results. It\u2019s extremely demoralizing. And after a while, you start to think, I tried method 1. I tried method 2. I tried method 10. It\u2019s not the methods. It\u2019s me. I\u2019m broken.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:18]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you\u2019re not broken.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:20]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re not broken. Anyone can become good with money. You don\u2019t need to become world class to have a very nice life. Anyone can become good. But to tell you the candid truth, it will be challenging for you because you\u2019re going to have to radically rethink the way that you show up. Now, it can change. It can change with therapy. It can change with behavioral practices like setting up automation. It can change with the help of a partner, but it has to change.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:56]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u00a0really like the direction they\u2019re taking. This all happened after I got frustrated with them at the end of the last episode, and I basically said, you guys are not taking this seriously. And suddenly, they are. But you can still see how challenging this is\u00a0going to\u00a0be. Even in this serious discussion,\u00a0they\u2019re cracking jokes. They\u2019re using restrictive language, but frankly, all of those are tiny details. What I notice is that they are making progress, and I love that. We\u2019ll get into their CSP after this quick break.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:29]\u00a0Let\u2019s get into their numbers. You can download your own free Conscious Spending Plan template and follow along at iwt.com\/csp. Their net worth reads as follows, assets, $170,000; investments, 38,000; savings, zero; debt, $152,000, for a total net worth of $56,483.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:56]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0It is a very sad little number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:59]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I will be honest, I am surprised it is as big as it is. I thought it was going to be zero or negative.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:07]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0So I was happily surprised that we weren\u2019t negative completely, but as old as we are, I was really hoping investments would be, I don\u2019t know, three or four times bigger than that number is, and debt was not even close to that giant of a number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Talk to me about the debt. $152,000. How does that break down?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:32]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Student loans is about 50,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:36]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Mortgage is about 45,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:40]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Car is 15,000. Credit card debt is 25,000. Medical debt is 8,000. I think that\u2019s everything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so this is your gross annual income, $88,800. Who here knew that is how much you make jointly? Raise your hand if you knew. That\u2019s a no. All right, one out of two. Thank you very much for keeping my average consistent. 50% of people who come and talk to me do not know how much they make. How\u2019s that possible, by the way? Can you quickly explain that? Jon, how\u2019d you not know?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:27]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I let her handle it. I was passive about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:31]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I got a paycheck, and that was all I cared about.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Elizabeth, are you the higher earner?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:37]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, I am.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, so you make about 48,000 a year gross. And Jonathan, you make about 40,000, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:46]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Elizabeth, what\u2019s this number right here, your joint combined fixed cost. What is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:50]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you\u2019re spending every last dollar you make just on your fixed costs.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:57]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct. We are not making enough to get by already. Well, I know we are. Groceries, number one is ginormous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we just zoom out? I don\u2019t care about grocery spend right now. I care about the fact that you are losing money every single month. You are broke, and if anything happens to either of you, it\u2019s over. You have $0 in savings. So I don\u2019t really care for the jokes about groceries right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:24]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you all ready to take this seriously?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:27]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0For sure. It\u2019s deflecting, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:33]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I know how bad we are. I know that we are one paycheck away from everything gone. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re spending 100% of your take home income on fixed costs.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:46]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s too much. So let\u2019s take a look. First of all, your mortgage is $500. Wow. That\u2019s good. I know you bought this a while ago.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:57]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What did it cost when you bought it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:00]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a069,900.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a070,000 bucks. All right, great.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:05]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Your debt payments are $1,265 a month. That\u2019s a lot. We\u2019re going to come back to that. We\u2019ll just put a pin in that. Groceries are 920 a month. Explain that to me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:17]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We came to this number based off of the amount of trips we took to Walmart or Target. It was actually very eye-opening for both of us how much that number was.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Especially because you mentioned that your in-laws provide meat for you, thing like that. That\u2019s a huge savings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:34]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:34]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We overbuy because we both came from families that you buy what you can, when you can, when you have the money, and that goes for food as well. I like our cupboards to be completely stocked at all times. The moment I see\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:51]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I\u2019ve come from not having, so I want them to be fully stocked so that I know where my next meal is coming from.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s pretty honest, and I can understand that if you were raised food insecure, not knowing where things are going to come, it\u2019s a sense of comfort to open up a cupboard and see can after can, or a fridge full of vegetables or meat. I get it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:23]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I just give you a slightly different perspective?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:27]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure. I like to open up my fridge and see some food in there. That\u2019s fine. I mostly eat the same meals every day. I\u2019m not saying you have to. I\u2019m just sharing what I do. I don\u2019t really think about it. It\u2019s easy. And when you said you like to see your cupboard full, I thought to myself, I like to see my portfolio full.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:48]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like to see my savings account full. Have you ever talked like that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:55]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:58]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:58]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I would like that. Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can like it. I think that would be awesome. I\u2019m sharing my perspective just because I want to give you a different perspective.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:06]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you want that to happen, you can make it happen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:11]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Clothes are $350 a month. What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:16]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0So that was based off of this last month. It\u2019s not every month that I spent $350.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I just want to reiterate, you have $25,000 in credit card debt, and you spend $350 in a month on clothes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:30]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I should not be buying more clothes. I have plenty.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not here to beat you up or berate you. That\u2019s not my job. That\u2019s not what I do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:38]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No, but it\u2019s honest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What I\u2019m trying to do is to show you that you are not in alignment. If you say that you want to pay off your debt, we\u2019ll get to that. If you say that you would like to have more savings, if you say that you would like to stop worrying, this is not in alignment with that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:03]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Right, it\u2019s not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So one of the things that I try to make sure of is I don\u2019t tell people, stop doing that. Because if I told you, stop doing that, what\u2019s the first thing you would do, especially you, Elizabeth?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:17]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I would go out and do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Your phone $250 a month. What is that? That\u2019s more than I pay. [00:15:27]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We have payments on our phones, and we have an iPad that we pay for service.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:31]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0For our daughter. I thought it was going to be a good deal, a way of getting her an iPad through a phone subscription service, so that we were paying payments, but\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Elizabeth, this is that radical reconceptualization. You may have found a great deal on something, the truth is you probably shouldn\u2019t have been getting it in the first place.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:56]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0It allows her to call us when she goes to spend a night at grandma\u2019s house from her iPad, FaceTime us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you be willing to get rid of that service?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:11]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to say yes, that we should get rid of the service, but I like\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:20]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:20]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I like her having it. It\u2019s just a safety feature for me, and she takes it with her pretty much everywhere she goes, so I know I can always reach her if I need to. For me, that\u2019s how I justify it in my head.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask you a question?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:40]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nothing against you wanting safety for your daughter. I totally respect that. And if you decide the two of you to keep it, that\u2019s your decision. It\u2019s your money. It\u2019s your daughter. It\u2019s your call. I\u2019m going to put this on screen right now. Speaking of safety, I noticed that the two of you with an 8-year-old daughter have exactly $0 in savings. How safe is she really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:05]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I noticed that you have $152,000 of debt and that combined, the two of you make $88,000. How safe is she really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:16]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, not very.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And I noticed finally that the two of you spend 100%, probably a little bit more of your take home income on fixed costs, meaning you are spending more every month than you make. How safe is your daughter?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:37]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Only for the next two weeks till the next paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, I was getting a little frustrated here. They\u2019re literally losing money every single month, and they\u2019re here buying a 500-dollar hoverboard for their daughter, hundreds of dollars of clothes, and tons of random stuff at Target. It\u2019s one thing to do this if you\u2019re 24 years old and single. But this is a family with a young daughter, and they have essentially no savings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:02]\u00a0Yes, I understand they grew up in tough circumstances. Yes, I understand they have a low sense of agency, and their communication patterns are not that healthy. But if they\u00a0want to\u00a0change, they have to actually recognize how bad the situation is and then decide to make a change. As of right now, it still feels like they basically hoped I would show up, sprinkle a few magic words over our conversation, and everything would be okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:29]\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:31]\u00a0Now back to Elizabeth and\u00a0Jon.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Before we do work on some other reduction, I just want to look at the rest. Investments, you\u2019re at 8%. All right, so you\u2019re putting 400 bucks a month away into retirement, which is why you have $38,000 invested. All right, fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:47]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s the only reason we have anything invested.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what\u2019s the lesson?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:52]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0If I can\u2019t see it go, then it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you want your money to go somewhere, you need to make it automatic. Whatever is left, you\u2019re going to spend it. Might as well just be humble about it and admit it. Look, I have my own weaknesses. You put chips and salsa in front of me, I\u2019m eating that whole freaking thing. I know that. I\u2019m only going to eat at a Mexican restaurant when I know, ah, it\u2019s going to be chips and salsa all night for Ramit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:20]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m humble enough to know it. You got to be humble enough. It\u2019s not about trying. It\u2019s not about manually tracking in a notepad. None of that stuff matters. It\u2019s about automating your money to go where you want it to go, simple as that. We need to get this number down to roughly 50, maybe 60%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:40]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Like I said, we\u2019ve tried to get out of debt many times, and we never get out of debt ever. That\u2019s why it keeps accumulating. It just keeps getting worse.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Eating out. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:54]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I would buy a lot of movies online.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:00]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Like at $5 a pop, digital movies.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:05]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0That was something else I like to buy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, hold on. You have $185 a month in subscriptions. I presume that\u2019s like Disney plus, Netflix, all that stuff, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:13]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:13]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you\u2019re buying on top of those.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:15]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, I am. I stopped. Jon made me stop, so I did stop.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019d you say, Jon?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:21]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we really afford that? You need to stop. It all adds up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:26]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No, he told me to stop. He said I wasn\u2019t allowed to buy any more movies.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you respond well to being treated like a child? I\u2019m asking not insultingly. This is real question.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:38]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I get that. I don\u2019t know. Maybe, yes. I like to be in control and to do what I want to do, but I also like somebody telling me what to do. So if he were to be more in it and say, hey, stop, and don\u2019t do that, then I think I would listen a little more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I see. Okay. So you\u2019re saying if my partner were more directive with me about what is inbounds and out of bounds, I would respond to that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:09]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, I would.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That is honest. I appreciate that. Jon, what are you hearing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:16]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0That I need to be firmer with her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Let\u2019s be careful because it\u2019s very easy to go from directive to, she\u2019s a child, and I\u2019m going to treat her like a child. I don\u2019t want that. That\u2019s not the intimate relationship you want. Trust me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:33]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:33]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s a better way to balance this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:35]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I would like him to set boundaries, period, with the way that we spend our money. Right now, there are no boundaries.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so he sets boundaries. So he says, no more whatever, eating out, or we\u2019re only eating out twice a week, or something like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:51]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I feel like I would stick to it more if I had somebody that\u2019s making decisions, not for me, but with me, because right now I\u2019m making all the decisions myself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree with that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:09]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jon, you hearing that. Would you be willing to set some boundaries?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:15]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, love that he\u2019s like, yes, set me free. I\u2019ll do it. He pulls out a list. It\u2019s 350 pages long. He\u2019s like, you got all day. How much tape you got? We\u2019re about to roll this thing for the next two days. Okay, fine. I can sense the excitement. Elizabeth, you asked him to set some boundaries. I respect that. He sounds like he\u2019s down for it. I would like you to set some boundaries for yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:40]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you want to pick one right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:43]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No more clothes for at\u2013 well, see, I\u2019m trying to quantify it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, you\u2019re trying to qualify it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:54]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Qualify it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re trying to squirrel out of it, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:58]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I am.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why are you trying to do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:01]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I want the clothes. I don\u2019t need them. I want to give into that, that feeling, that endorphin rush of going shopping, I love doing that. I want to give into that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have your email open right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:19]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Read me the top 10 to 15 emails in your inbox.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:24]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Shoe Carnival, Sezzle, GameStop, BloomChic. Yeah. They\u2019re clothes and shoes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Look at me now. What have you done by signing up for all those emails that come into you every single day at all hours? What have you done?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:49]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Giving myself permission to look at it and go after what I want.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You have basically told every company out there, I give you permission to flood me with highly engineered material to get me to buy stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:09]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you see how you have set yourself up to fail?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:12]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what are you going to do about those emails?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:17]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Unsubscribe all of them.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you have a spending problem, I can almost guarantee you are subscribed to a bunch of retailers like Bed Bath &amp; Beyond and Target right now in your email inbox. I can also guarantee you follow a bunch of brands and random influencers who encourage you to buy a bunch of\u00a0bullshit\u00a0on Instagram.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:38]\u00a0Unsubscribe. Do it right now. You buying random items that some marketing manager fed you is not your Rich Life. Let\u2019s cut the\u00a0shit. And even if you actually love Bed Bath &amp; Beyond, and even if it\u2019s incredibly meaningful to you and you sketched out your Rich Life and you put Bed Bath &amp; Beyond as one of your top three things, you can\u2019t afford it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:58]\u00a0If you\u2019re spending more than 100% of your take home income on fixed costs, just\u00a0because\u00a0something is part of your Rich Life does not mean you can afford it. You are playing small. Now, you can tell that there are some people who simply want clear black and white boundaries.\u00a0Fine, I\u2019ll give it to him. But along with those boundaries, I\u2019m\u00a0going to\u00a0try to show Elizabeth and\u00a0Jon\u00a0why I\u2019m giving them those specific recommendations.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are some other parts of life where you have set yourself up to fail?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:28]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Having shopping apps on my phone where I see them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Get that\u00a0shit\u00a0off immediately.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:35]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why have a shopping app? Like what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:38]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0For the stores that I like to shop from, I have their apps on my phone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-uh. Bye-Bye. Okay, those are gone. Again, you\u2019re actually just setting yourself up to fail. If you put a basket of chips and salsa in front of me again and I was like, I should try to be better. I\u2019m so bad. Give me 15 minutes. I\u2019m going to eat that thing. Part of it is like, okay, could I have had stronger willpower?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:04]\u00a0Sure, I could have, but let\u2019s not even play that game at all. Let\u2019s just not have the chips in the house. I\u2019m humble enough to know that there\u2019s certain things I\u2019m just going to do. Okay. Apps, you nailed it. Email, you nailed it. What else? Give me one more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:15]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Not going to Target.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:19]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Period.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:22]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Send Jon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I agree. That\u2019s an easy fix. Sure. Elizabeth, as you start to get some more wins under your belt, I don\u2019t want you like a child to be told you can\u2019t go in there. I would like you to learn the discipline, like going into a restaurant and knowing how to order food or how much dessert to get.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:43]\u00a0You need to learn that stuff. You need to make some mistakes. It\u2019s okay. It\u2019s not going to kill you. After you get some wins under your belt, I would love it if three months, six months down the line, you go in with a small list, five items. You go into Target, and you tell yourself, before you go in, you go, how am I going to show up on this Target trip? Oh, I\u2019m going to do exactly what\u2019s on this list. No less, no more. I trust you. You need to trust yourself more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:09]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s just go back and walk through some of the numbers right now, because right now we got to fix something.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:15]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So your fixed costs need to come down from 99% to 60%. And let me tell you what doesn\u2019t work. Sitting here for the next three hours and talking about, oh, can we shave off $10 on gas? No, it\u2019s never going to work. A better approach is simply to say, if we had a blank page, what would we be doing with our money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:37]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Saving. Okay. Investing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. You would start with saving, investing. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:45]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Go on a vacation, a honeymoon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nice. Okay. Uh-huh. Anything else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:55]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Save for Rosie\u2019s College if she wants to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:59]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Not on the list is credit card debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay. Nice. Agreed. Not on the list is a 500-dollar pony.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:08]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What else? You want to save money? Fine. How much do you want to save per month? Give me a number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:15]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d like to at least be able to save $1,000. That\u2019s my first goal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. You could save $1,000. It doesn\u2019t have to happen in one month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:25]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I want to save at least $100.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, $100 dollars is 2%. I like that. Let\u2019s go a little bit higher.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:33]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0200.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0200.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:35]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d say three.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0300. Okay, fine. All right, that\u2019s at 6%. That\u2019s nice. I always say five to 10%. Of course, I\u2019d love to see that number higher, but this is a good place to get started. Investments. Ah, you\u2019re at 8%. I don\u2019t mind that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:50]\u00a0Well, we got a problem here because right now your guilt-free spending is negative 13%, which means you cannot afford to do any eating out, etc. And of course you just ignore that. You just eat out anyway, which just adds to your credit card debt. That\u2019s not effective. You\u2019ve set yourself up to fail, so that is not going to work. That means we need to go up here to fix costs. That is where the crux of the problem is.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you need to make big changes, this is how you do it. You simply start a new page and you say, if we had to start all over again, what would we do? When you do that, most people immediately prioritize saving and investing. That\u2019s literally what we mean when we say paying yourself first.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:32]\u00a0Most people also conveniently leave off a bunch of the random meaningless purchases that they are wasting their money on.\u00a0They do, on the other hand, add meaningful things like vacations. You can see that when you give people the chance to design on a blank slate, whether it\u2019s with food, whether it\u2019s with their Rich Life, whether it\u2019s with their time, they are quite intentional.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:56]\u00a0The problem is that we typically cobble together our life based on what\u2019s in front of us. Oh, I got an email with a sale for this thing for 15% off. Click Buy. And suddenly you wake up one day, you look around your house. It\u2019s full of stuff you don\u2019t care about.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:09]\u00a0You look at where you\u2019re spending your money. It\u2019s full of stuff you don\u2019t care about. And then you go, why can\u2019t I live a Rich Life? Well, you\u2019ve done everything but, and one of my goals is to be able to disentangle all that stuff, cut through the cobwebs, and say, what is your Rich Life?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:23]\u00a0\u00a0So they did exactly what most people do. They took a blank slate. They made very intentional decisions. I like it. Now we have to see if they can actually change their existing spending to get aligned with the life that they want.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:37]\u00a0We\u2019ll be back after these messages.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:40]\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:41]\u00a0\u00a0I started working through their CSP with them.\u00a0Remember, we\u2019re aiming for 50 to 60% in fixed costs. They\u2019re currently at 99%. That\u2019s down from 100% after we cut cell service on their 8-year-old daughter\u2019s iPad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:53]\u00a0So here\u2019s what we did. We removed $520 a month from groceries. We cut way back on clothing. We traded in and canceled service on their Apple watches. Cut $90 gym membership. They can work out at home. Went down to one streaming subscription. All those decisions got them down to 77% fixed costs. Good. Moving in the right direction, but it\u2019s also clear that numbers are not the most important part of this conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s amazing when you actually cut down on all this stuff and you have a mission, not just cutting down for the sake of cutting down, but you have a mission, you have a vision of why you\u2019re doing this. It\u2019s amazing how much you realize you did not need all this stuff\u2013 apple watches, iPad connectivity.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:37]\u00a0I don\u2019t even have this stuff. I have a mission though. And you don\u2019t need it either. You don\u2019t need it. Nobody needs it. You want it, and I want you to get to the place where you can easily afford it. There is a vision to get there, but it\u2019s not today. Jon, anything from your perspective?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:55]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we could get groceries down to 400.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How are you going to get from 962 to 400?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:02]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0We can meal plan better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:04]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0We have, we just get out of it. We don\u2019t keep the habit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How long does it last for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:12]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Usually a couple of weeks, and then we get bored with it, bored with whatever we had picked, I guess. We don\u2019t plan ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:26]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Because the future is scary at this point, because we don\u2019t know if we\u2019re going to make it past the next two weeks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a horrible way to live.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:38]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It\u2019s not been great. That\u2019s the honest truth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That resistance, that reactance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:47]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0See how it shows up in so many different parts of your life?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:52]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0It does. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If somebody tells me this is the plan, I\u2019m going to resist it, even if the plan would\u2019ve helped me and my resistance harms me. Until you fix that, none of this is going to work.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:09]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That takes working with a therapist.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:12]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because this is a plan we\u2019re creating right now. If we walk away, even though it\u2019s your plan, the minute I leave, if you go, ah, this,\u00a0fuck\u00a0this plan this guy made me do, it\u2019s over.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:29]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I definitely need to work on it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:37]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0I need to be there for you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:39]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, well, let\u2019s talk about your debt. You pay $1,265 a month. Now, what is this debt consolidation thing you did?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:52]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0They basically contact the credit card companies for us to negotiate deals on our behalf. And we stopped paying all credit cards while they\u2019re doing the negotiations, and we just pay the money to them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How\u2019d you find them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:19]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0This is embarrassing. I\u2019ve gone through them before, or one like it before. When I got out of college, I was in a lot of debt. Probably five to 10,000 in credit card debt when I got out of college, before I got married. And I went through them to get that down. So I knew it was out there. I knew it was an option. And when we got to this point, I was overwhelmed, and I knew that was an option, so I went for it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t love these services. I don\u2019t know the exact one you\u2019re using, but I\u2019ll tell you, usually, what they do is\u2013 some of them\u2013 they have you stop paying on all of your debts. That what they had you do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:04]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, they did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Okay. So they have you stop paying, meanwhile you\u2019re just putting money aside somewhere. And then when it looks like you\u2019re basically going to default, they will swoop in and try to negotiate, and they\u2019ll get a settlement. Sometimes not every company will settle, but they\u2019ll charge you these really hefty fees, and your credit will be ruined, and all kinds of effects will happen. This is it. This is what they\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:29]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. This is exactly what they\u2019re doing. Yeah. I knew going into it that our credit was going to be ruined, but I didn\u2019t really see any other options. It was already getting ruined because we were late, couldn\u2019t make the minimum. So for me, it was a wash. It was already going to be bad. So why not let somebody else solve the problem for us?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:53]\u00a0We got in the cycle of, I would make a payment to the credit card, so we would have like a $200 credit on the card, and then we would use the card for that $200, and then we would pay it, and then we\u2019d use it and pay it and use it. So we were constantly maxed out on all of our credit cards.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why have you created a life where you have to do this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:23]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me. You know. The only two people who can know are you two right here. Why have you created a life where you have to do all this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:44]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s all we knew growing up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:49]\u00a0Well, that\u2019s true. You guys are almost 40 years old.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:53]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0That is also true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is there an answer?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:58]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Not a good answer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t care if it\u2019s good or bad. I just like the truth. Why have you created a life where you have to do this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:14]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably because we didn\u2019t value ourselves enough to create something good. We created something bad because that\u2019s what we thought we deserved.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. You think you deserve a bad life?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:39]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Some days, not all days.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Thank you for being so candid. One of the reasons that I feel very fortunate to speak to both of you is like, I just got to know you. I didn\u2019t know you before today. Just hearing the way that you both grew up in your childhood, so many differences in the way that the two of you grew up and the way that I grew up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:04]\u00a0Sometimes I think that\u2019s a beautiful thing. I didn\u2019t grow up on a farm, and I get to hear how you grew up, and I didn\u2019t grow up with a highly religious, restrictive background like you did. And I\u2019m learning from you, but I can also see the effects of all these different types of upbringings and what they have. And Elizabeth, this is very heartbreaking for me to hear that sometimes you think you deserve bad things. I don\u2019t think you deserve it. Jon, I would bet you don\u2019t think that she deserves it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:39]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So Elizabeth, I think that is incredibly savvy of you to admit that, incredibly courageous. Put all these numbers aside until you\u2019re able to heal that part and to acknowledge where you came from and what happened, and chart a path forward. And that can only happen between the two of you and your therapist. These numbers are just irrelevant.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:07]\u00a0These numbers are simply physical manifestations of how you feel, Jon, how you feel, and how the two of you are connected or disconnected about money. That\u2019s why the iPad spending, that\u2019s why the Apple watch, that\u2019s why the $962 on groceries and eating out and getting bored of meals, it\u2019s all traced back to that. So while I can\u2019t tell you what to do, it\u2019s not my place, from my perspective as somebody you invited here to give some feedback, I would say if I were in your position, Elizabeth, this would be my number one priority.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:56]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I would clear heaven and earth to be able to say, I need to work on this because everything else in this family depends on that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:08]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it does. It does. I\u2019ve always put myself last as far as I want things for my daughter, for my husband. So I\u2019ve started the journey this last year to put myself first and start to get help. Speaking with my doctor, medications, things like that to help start the journey in the right direction.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:42]\u00a0And therapy is the next step that needs to happen. But we\u2019ve always been so strapped for catch, and therapy is expensive, so that\u2019s not always something that I would prioritize because we were always behind.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are the things that you could deprioritize so that you could prioritize therapy? We\u2019ve already talked about groceries and all that stuff. Go beyond that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:08]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0All of the trinkets and all of the silly things that we spend our money on, eating out all the time, entertaining ourselves, distracting ourselves from what our life really is.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Which is what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:28]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0The reality that we\u2019re 100 and whatever it was, thousand dollars in debt. We\u2019re just distracting ourself with the entertainment, going places, spending money, distracting ourselves from the reality of our life.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can tell that all of the spending, the toys, the clothes, the exorbitant grocery bill, and the random purchases, those are all symptoms of a lot of pain. And in the past, they have tried to treat the symptoms. They even went through a debt consolidation service, and guess what? They\u2019re right back in the same situation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:13]\u00a0This is exactly why I suggested that Elizabeth prioritize therapy, because without working on the root cause, the symptoms will just persist, and they will morph. And the fact is, even if they magically change their relationship with money and with each other, it still won\u2019t fix their finances. That\u2019s why I wanted to talk to them about their income.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s talk a little bit more about what you can do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:43]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, please.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s just not enough money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:46]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0No, there\u2019s not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we talk about the income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:51]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s going to be very tough for you to get ahead with the incomes you\u2019re on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:00]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s the possibility of increasing your income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:08]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Mine\u2019s a very good possibility. I\u2019m up for a promotion, so I do know that hopefully will be happening soon, within the next two months.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jon, what about you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:22]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve gotten a steady, 3% to 4% raise each year. That\u2019s usually what they stick to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:38]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t foresee his going up very much anytime soon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why are y\u2019all making yourself passive in this journey of your income? Watch this. Jon, how long you been at your job? How many years?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:52]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a012.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a012 years. And you\u2019ve got 3% raises the whole time?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:59]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:59]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jon, this passivity is costing you literally tens of thousands of dollars. The economy is booming. Are you aware of that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:16]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s familiar.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly. So it\u2019s familiar to you, so you stick with it, even though you\u2019re probably being drastically underpaid. Elizabeth, overspending on random trinkets is familiar to you, so you keep doing it even though it\u2019s taking you further and further away from where you really want to go.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:35]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019d I tell you at the beginning of this call? I can\u2019t make you both change.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:41]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Jon, what do you think about the income part? You could probably be making a lot more money, getting a different job.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:47]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I should look into it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:53]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:56]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve been saying it for a while, that he needs a different job. He loves where he works, but he doesn\u2019t make enough, and I think he has a potential to make more, I feel, than I do if I were to change my job.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Isn\u2019t this something a team would talk about together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:19]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s hard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All of this is hard. That\u2019s the position you\u2019ve put yourself in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:25]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0It is.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0By not working together and by not setting boundaries, you have now put yourself in a position where you have to make all hard decisions. That\u2019s reality. I don\u2019t know. I think your daughter actually could benefit as an educational experience. We have a roof over our head. Everybody\u2019s going to be okay, but we\u2019re going to be making some changes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:50]\u00a0First of all, mommy and daddy are going to be getting rid of our watches, and we\u2019re going to be making some changes around the house. Here\u2019s what it means. I\u2019m going to need your help on this, this, this, making her a part of it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:03]\u00a0She doesn\u2019t have to know every last detail. Paint the picture for me. What would she say in the best case scenario? I\u2019ll start it off. When I was around the age of 10, my parents were in a ton of debt. I didn\u2019t really know how much, but I knew they were always worried about money, and then\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:21]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0They changed everything. They changed our lifestyle. They changed our spending habits. They changed their meal habits.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:33]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0They changed themselves.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:36]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. They changed themselves.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why were they doing it? Tell me what she\u2019ll say.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:45]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Hopefully she\u2019ll say to make a better future for her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:49]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. They did it for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:52]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0We actually went on for hours on our conversation.\u00a0Jon\u00a0and Elizabeth have put themselves in a very difficult situation. They do have a path out, but it will take radically reconceptualizing their relationship with money, with their daughter, with each other, and even with themselves.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:11]\u00a0In the best case, that is really hard, but it\u2019s much, much harder if you\u2019ve never done it before. The good news is I don\u2019t need them to be perfect. I just need them to start moving in the right direction, ideally together. One other thing, they signed up for this debt consolidation service, which I suspect is pretty scammy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:33]\u00a0\u00a0I asked them to send over all their documents, and I sent those over to our partners at Facet. I asked the financial advisors at Facet who work on a flat fee model, not a percentage of income to take a look and\u00a0help Elizabeth and\u00a0Jon\u00a0figure out what would be the right steps to get out of this debt consolidation trap that they find themselves in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:55]\u00a0Our partners at Facet actually looked over everything for Elizabeth and Jonathan, and within a couple of days, they sent me a summary of what they found. They said, yes, this is legit. The company does help you negotiate and settle your debts.\u00a0If they do settle an amount, they will charge them 25 percent of the amount that is forgiven.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:13]\u00a0But there are two issues. Number one, most debt that is forgiven can result in the amount being reported as taxable income. That means you may owe income taxes on this amount as well. And number two, settlements can really damage your credit for the next seven years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:27]\u00a0You\u2019re essentially locking in a lower credit score for about seven years before this activity can be removed from your credit report. I sent Facet\u2019s full report and findings over to Elizabeth and Jonathan as a courtesy to help them make an educated decision. But the big point here is they can get out of this if they choose to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:44]\u00a0If you want help with your financial plan, check out our partners at Facet, where you can get your own CFP for a flat fee membership. Remember, it\u2019s never a percentage-based fee. Check them out in a special deal they have for IWT listeners at facet.com\/ramit. That\u2019s F-A-C-E-T, facet.com\/ramit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:05]\u00a0Now I\u2019m really looking forward to hearing the follow-ups from Elizabeth and\u00a0Jon. Let\u2019s start with\u00a0Jon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:11]\u00a0<strong>Jonathan:<\/strong>\u00a0The biggest surprises from our conversation for me was where all of our money was actually going and how far in debt we really were. I had no idea that it was that bad. So thank you again for taking the time to sit with us. The big takeaways that I got from it was that I need to be more supportive of Elizabeth in our finances, and I need to be more vocal about our financial decisions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:46]\u00a0I learned that there are places in our finances that we can make big changes to really help us meet our vision of the future for trips and retirement. And I just want to say thanks again for sitting down with us and going over all of it. It has been very enlightening.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now, Elizabeth\u2019s follow-up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:20]\u00a0<strong>Elizabeth:<\/strong>\u00a0I am so thankful that we were able to really dig into the bigger issue of why we\u2019re having so much financial struggles. I was pleasantly surprised to learn a lot more about myself and that I definitely am not where I am mentally and how much that is really, really affecting our financial situation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:46]\u00a0I knew it did, but not to the extent that we really dove into. And I\u2019m so thankful that we were able to talk about, with Jon, the struggles that I\u2019ve been having and for him to see how greatly it affects both of us, and that he is now wanting to take a more active role in our finances. So thank you very much for that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:12]\u00a0We are actively looking into getting rid of a lot of unnecessary things and really trim down our finances so that we can get a great start on this new year and getting our finances back up to scratch. So thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to thank Elizabeth and Jonathan for having the courage to ask for help and for coming here and sharing a lot with me. In hearing these follow-ups for the first time,\u00a0here\u2019s what I notice. I love that they are energized. They feel connected more so than when we first started our conversation, and that\u2019s exactly what I wanted them to feel, connection and a small sense of control.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:53]\u00a0That is why I took the conversation in the direction that I did. But I also notice that I\u2019ve heard very few specifics about the changes they\u00a0want to\u00a0make.\u00a0And when you\u2019re in a situation like this where you need to make huge changes, success is all about the specifics. So Elizabeth and Jonathan, thank you again for coming on, being so courageous, and asking for help. Please keep me updated.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>In part two with Elizabeth and Jonathan, 36 and 38, we continue unpacking their complicated personal backgrounds with money as they relate to current spending, investing, and saving habits. They\u2019re stuck in a loop of debt and financial stress, but are they ready to make positive changes? This episode is brought to you by: Sidebar [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118917","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118917","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118917"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118917\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118917"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118917"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}