{"id":118922,"date":"2024-02-27T13:13:45","date_gmt":"2024-02-27T17:13:45","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118922"},"modified":"2026-02-23T15:33:03","modified_gmt":"2026-02-23T19:33:03","slug":"145-david-kristin","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/145-david-kristin\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 145. \u201cAm I a bad mom if we can\u2019t do a $7k Disney trip?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cAm I a bad mom if we can\u2019t do a $7k Disney trip?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/KYaeCRCoKEw\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/77yA7ISS6uaHOi6lqV136B?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Kristin is 32 and David is 38. They share five kids in a blended family and David is getting close to military retirement. The problem is their spending\u2014fueled by emotions alone, they make purchase after purchase, soaring over set budgets and putting the future of their family at risk.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Thinkific | The same platform I use to build online courses online\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/thinkific.com\/\">https:\/\/thinkific.com<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Pique Tea | Get up to 15% off and 12 tea samples at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/piquelife.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/piquelife.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0for 20% off.<\/p>\n<p>Viator | Download the Viator app and use code VIATOR10 for 10% off your first travel experience with Viator.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Tools mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You guys like getting played by your kids?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:06]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s guilt. Me and their dad divorced, so I feel like maybe I put them in a bad situation. When they\u2019re with me, I don\u2019t want them to feel sad, or I don\u2019t want them to feel hurt, or I don\u2019t want them to have negative feelings when they\u2019re around mom.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:23]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Regardless of what we set down, I\u2019m going to be a complete pushover for my family, especially my wife. If she says, well, I want to do this, I\u2019m not going to put my foot down and say no, we\u2019re not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re a pushover for your wife. Your wife\u2019s a pushover for your kids. Who runs that house?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:39]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0When it comes to running the house, it\u2019s me. When it comes to rules, and chores, and things like that\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How about if they say, I want to go to Disneyland, five of us. I want to go to Disneyland. How about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:52]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0If they ask me, dream on. Yeah, good luck. No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then they ask mom, and then what does mom say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s plan a trip to Disneyland.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:01]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s go to Disney.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meet Kristine and David.\u00a0Kristine\u00a0is 32. She\u2019s a business operations manager. David is 38. He\u2019s in the military.\u00a0He\u2019s actually about to retire now. They have five children together in a blended family, and they\u2019re here today because they have serious spending issues. It all starts with them describing a recent trip to Disneyland. But what you\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0hear in our conversation today, our skills around setting boundaries, around working as a team, and even parenting.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:32]\u00a0What do you do when you\u2019re in debt, you can\u2019t say no to your kids, and one of you is about to retire? Let\u2019s listen into today\u2019s conversation with\u00a0Kristine\u00a0and David.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:44]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Disneyland in October. I spend my money on my kids, my wife, and my family. And that\u2019s just how it works. When it comes to eating and things like that, where we go to Disneyland, and it\u2019s $40 for a plate, and I\u2019m looking at it like, it\u2019s a bag of chips and a sandwich, guys.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:00]\u00a0We could have saved literally hundreds. We had five kids with us that we were paying for hundreds of dollars on the three days that we were there, not to include the drive there and then the drive back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You went to Disneyland for three days?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:13]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, sir.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you had to underline it in a sentence or two, what is your issue with the Disneyland trip? Is it that you spend too much on sandwiches, or is there something bigger?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:23]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We did not identify a budget. It was just a free for all. And even I had requested like, let\u2019s look at 100 bucks a day. For fast math, a hundred bucks a day? And it was more like $250 a day. And I\u2019m like, what is going on here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Could you afford \u201c$250 a day\u201d?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:44]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely. Yeah. But it\u2019s what I like to spend my money on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Well, you did say you like to spend your money on your wife and your kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:54]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re not wrong.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:56]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it was poor planning, honestly. The whole trip was a fiasco to begin with. So we rented out a 15-passenger van. I\u2019ll set up the scene. My mom, my stepfather, our four kids, my daughter\u2019s friend, my husband, and I were all traveling. We rented this van. We started to go, and all of a sudden, in the middle of the freeway, the van broke down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:22]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, this is very scary. Here we are panicking. The kids are upset. We had just started our journey to Disneyland, and that was the first thing for me, was, hey, let\u2019s just rent another vehicle from budget. It\u2019s going to be easier. We\u2019ll take off. We\u2019ll go.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How much did that cost?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:42]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0That was about $2,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a02000 for the rental. How much, the Turo, would that have been?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:49]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0That was only $500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I assume you didn\u2019t have to pay for the Turo, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:53]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No, no, no We didn\u2019t have to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So you spent an extra 1500 bucks, which is a lot on, this rental. Okay. So you\u2019re already starting off way over budget. What happened then?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:02]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s like, okay, well, let\u2019s go get some snacks for Disneyland tomorrow. And we went to a Walgreens, I believe was the only thing open at the time that was nearby. They had very limited snacks at this Walgreens that we went to. I was very surprised. I thought there would\u2019ve been a lot more options. So I grabbed as many snacks as I thought would last us the couple of days at the park.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:26]\u00a0Come to find out with five kids in a park all day, those snacks were pretty much gone the first day. And so after that, it was like, well, we don\u2019t have any more snacks, so let\u2019s just buy them food from around the park. And limit to a point where it\u2019s like, we\u2019re not going to buy a hot dog, and an ice cream, and a popcorn, and this, and this, and that for each one. It\u2019s like, we\u2019re going to eat one meal, and then we\u2019ll find some snacks in between.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Where\u2019d you stay at Disneyland?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:55]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Our suite had two rooms. My daughter and her friend slept out in the living room, pullout bed. And then there was a bunk bed where our three boys, 12, 14, and four all slept on the bunk bed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Perfect Disney hotel. I love it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:09]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And then how about the tickets? How much was all that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:14]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So all together the tickets came out to about 1,500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a01,500. Okay. For the tickets, 1,500 for the van. That\u2019s 3,000. About 500, probably more like 700 for the hotel with taxes and all that stuff. We\u2019re talking about 3,700. What else? How much does it all end up being?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:34]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0For the kids mostly, I want to say maybe 300 a day for food and drinks, maybe anything and everything that we were paying for all of us a day.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s 300 a day total. So talking about 5,000 bucks for the trip. Probably there\u2019s other stuff you\u2019re not including here, so 6,000. Would that be fair? Six to 7,000?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What do you think, David?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:01]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Sounds about right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Is this normal? What did you think it was going to cost before you went?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We were out of whack on the coordination and communication to begin with. The whole purpose for the trip was my daughter was turning 16. It was on her birthday. We were there for the weekend. It just so happened to be their spring or their fall break. My intention was to take my daughter, her friend, and my youngest being that her two boys, who at the time that we planned this, lived in Tucson, were not going to be on fall break.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:33]\u00a0But then that switched because last minute her oldest came to live with us, and then her youngest basically just took the time off and joined in. So it turned from going with five of us to going with seven of us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But did you have a number in mind before you went? It sounds like you didn\u2019t.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:51]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a03,500 bucks. Yeah, that was my idea.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What about you, Kristine? Did you have a number in mind?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It probably would\u2019ve been close to 5,000, but honestly, that\u2019s one of my faults, is I don\u2019t put numbers on things before I go or spend things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How come David\u2019s shaking your head? David, why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:12]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0That was an initial conversation. I was like, we need to talk about how much we\u2019re going to spend. And she\u2019s like, okay, if you want to. Basically like, we can, but not going to stick to it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How do you know you can afford it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:26]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Based on what I know is in my account and what I know is in our shared accounts. I know there\u2019s enough money in there to pay for that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And what about if you had to buy something like a car? You don\u2019t have that much money in your checking account. How do you know if you can afford that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:41]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So I look at our bills, look our income and outgoing. I use a spreadsheet. I have it very detailed as to everything that comes in and everything bills wise, we need to pay. So there\u2019s always going to be enough and then some in that account to pay our bills. And then I know how much after that David and I both have in our accounts approximately.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Very nice. All right, so you go to Disneyland. Unfortunately, the van thing happened. Fine. It was unplanned. You come back. Did you talk about the spending at any point?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:17]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I told her she spent too much.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0Consider the following. They had no clear communication about the trip. He had one vision, she had another. There was no real conversation about the financial part of it. Then unintended things happen, like the van breaking down. Now that can\u2019t be predicted, but it can be planned for.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:33]\u00a0\u00a0Finally, speaking of planning, there was poor planning. The kids ran out of food, meaning that they had to spend a lot of money at the park. As you can see, bad outcomes are most commonly a result of several layers\u00a0of poor communication and decisions. This is why I use techniques like the five whys to really get at the root of what\u2019s going on. It\u2019s not about the pretzel at Disneyland. It\u2019s much deeper than that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:58]\u00a0Don\u2019t go\u00a0anywhere. We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:01]\u00a0Now back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:02]\u00a0Incidentally, doesn\u2019t this story read like so many typical American vacations?\u00a0Mom is excited, dad is grumpy about the budget, and somehow it all works out. Except if you actually see beneath the surface, you realize that it didn\u2019t work out, and this trip is just a symptom of how both of them do not have a shared vision around money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:27]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I was like, yeah, it\u2019s definitely more than you probably would\u2019ve wanted, but don\u2019t worry, it\u2019s covered.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:34]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I will use our credit cards, right? We have our credit cards. They have high spending limits on it. We\u2019ve always had the idea that if we put it on a credit card, we\u2019re going to pay it off as soon as possible.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:45]\u00a0And we\u2019ve pretty much stuck to our guns on that. There\u2019s been some times where we\u2019ve gotten to places where we had to put it off a little bit, but we\u2019re really good about paying off our credit cards. For me it was like, it\u2019s all covered, and I told him within the next month, it\u2019ll be paid off. And it was.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I respect that you have a vision, you have a point of view on your credit cards. I\u2019m a little nervous how you said, we pretty much stick to our guns.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:13]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Our mindset is that we have to have no credit card debt. We should not be using it. David\u2019s very much so like, let\u2019s save. What are we going to do? Let\u2019s save and then do it. Where I\u2019m like, okay. well, we have the credit card. Let\u2019s do it, and then we\u2019ll pay it off.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, are you going to pay it off that month?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:33]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Not always. I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s why I\u2019m struggling, because I don\u2019t know if that is my upbringing, or it was like, it\u2019s fine. If we need to put it on a credit card, we\u2019ll put it on the credit card and pay it off later.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Come on. You know. You\u2019ve heard a million people talk about pay off your credit cards every month. This is not new. You don\u2019t need me to be here telling you that. You know that, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:00]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why are you BSing me right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:03]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I don\u2019t want to be the problem.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can you reconcile that with what you just told me about Disneyland?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:11]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m building on my business and gaining more money and seeing that I have a lot more money than we\u2019ve had in the past, so those things are easier to get paid off of. But it just feels like we make more money, but it\u2019s always going out, and we don\u2019t really know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It is not a feeling, it is reality. You make more money and you spend more money. That\u2019s not a feeling.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:34]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0mm-Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do we agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:36]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s math.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:38]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So can you connect what you just said to the Disneyland story you told me about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:43]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, for me, is that I\u2019m not budgeting. I\u2019m just saying, well, we have all this credit card. We can just use that. And I\u2019m not focusing on actually what\u2019s coming in when it comes to spending, making those\u2013 or budgeting, or doing things like that. I\u2019m like, we can just spend it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:01]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I\u2019m okay using credit cards. I\u2019m okay spending out, but I guess being okay that when we get to a point when David is retired and we don\u2019t have that money, making sure that it\u2019s there is credit card debt okay. Being able to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. You said, I\u2019m okay using credit cards. You have credit card debt right now? Right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:31]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Yes, we do. Yes, we do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you\u2019re in credit card debt right now. And David, you\u2019re going to retire pretty soon, like in about two months. Correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:42]\u00a0David:\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:44]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0All right. So you\u2019re definitely going to have credit card debt then.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:47]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-Hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what are we talking about here? We know exactly what\u2019s happening today, and we know exactly what\u2019s going to happen tomorrow. What\u2019s the question?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s things that I like to buy. One of the things, my biggest thing, and we argue about this all the time, is to ensure our kids are happy. That\u2019s probably a big, huge thing when it came to the Disneyland fiasco.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why is it called a fiasco? I thought it was totally fine, besides the van thing. Why do you call it a fiasco?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:22]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Just because we did go back and forth a lot about taking all of the kids. It was a sweet 16 trip. My thought was that we were taking everybody. His thought was, it\u2019s just my daughter and her friend. So when I brought up, okay, well, we can\u2019t leave the other kids out, that\u2019s not fair, he\u2019s like, why does that matter?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I have a question. So I understand that, as parents, you don\u2019t want to leave kids out. You want to bring them along, make everybody feel welcome. I totally get that. But putting that aside, financially speaking, did that affect your decision as to whether to bring two kids or five kids?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:02]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No. To me, I didn\u2019t even think about those numbers because I figured, you know what? We\u2019ll get it paid off. It\u2019s going to be fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. We\u2019ll figure it out. Okay. And David, two versus five kids, was there a financial component to that for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:16]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a01000%, yes. I literally broke it down saying\u2013 her two boys, one of them is 14, one of them 12. They\u2019re both the same size. They\u2019re monsters when it comes to eating. We can\u2019t go to McDonald\u2019s anymore and just grab a happy meal and everybody\u2019s happy. They\u2019re literally eating as much, if not more than me. Not to mention the tickets. Also the snacks, the food, all that stuff. And I said just alone with the food, we\u2019re probably looking five or $600 for the four days.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You said that to her. And Kristine, how did you reply to that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:52]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I was just thinking of feelings. I was thinking,\u00a0how do we left the kids out? They\u2019re going to be upset. And I think that\u2019s a huge thing for me. I always think about their feelings, and David\u2019s quite the opposite.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think about, David?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I didn\u2019t have the best upbringing. We had issues. And I tell her all the time, I\u2019m like, these kids\u2013 I feel like I\u2019m a very good dad, and I feel like she\u2019s an amazing mother. We give them the world for them to skip a Disneyland trip, which mind you, we go almost every year. It is like, okay, so you\u2019ll go next year, or we\u2019ll take you on your birthday to go, do something else with just you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:31]\u00a0We have the finances for that. That\u2019s not a problem. And I have no issues telling my daughter, hey, dude, we took you to Disneyland. I\u2019m taking this kid to Universal. See you later.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I hear that, Kristine, there\u2019s a lot of feelings. Of course, you want to bring kids together. You don\u2019t want anybody to feel left out. I totally get that. And David, I hear that two additional kids, two or three, especially at that age, they\u2019re going to eat a lot. They\u2019re going to take up extra hotel room. You\u2019re going to need a bigger vehicle. I totally get that as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:02]\u00a0What I don\u2019t hear is the two of you breaking it down in a way that takes the antagonism away and says, hey, we\u2019re a team. Let\u2019s look at our plan. Because we\u2019re not fighting each other. Kristine, you\u2019re a great mom. Kristine says, David, you\u2019re a great dad. We all know that. But we got to have some vision, some plan that we work through together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:30]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. I think we have our own separate plans and our own separate ideas, and then we just go along that path and not really put them together when it comes to things like planning a trip, and how much money we\u2019re going to spend, and who\u2019s coming, and all that. It\u2019s always just, oh, well, I thought it was going to be like this. And he thought it was going to be like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:53]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0The planning thing is\u2013 how to say it\u2013 is good in theory. I always try to have a plan. I always try to say we need to do this, this, this, and that, and regardless of what we set down, I\u2019m going to be a complete pushover for my family, especially my wife. If she says, well, I want to do this, I\u2019m not going to put my foot down and say, no, we\u2019re not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re a pushover for your wife. Your wife\u2019s a pushover for your kids. Who runs that house?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:27]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0When it comes to running the house, it\u2019s me. When it comes to rules, and chores, and things like that, no, absolutely. Nobody is going to push me around when it comes to that kind of stuff. I tell you to wash dishes, you\u2019re going to wash dishes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How about if they say, I want to go to Disneyland, five of us? I want to go to Disneyland. How about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:47]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Most likely, if they ask me, dream on. Yeah, good luck. No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then they ask mom, and then what does mom say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:55]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s plan a trip to Disneyland.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:57]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s go to Disney.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So you guys like getting played by your kids?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:03]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t want it to make it sound like our kids just run all over us and they can do whatever they want. But when it comes to\u2013 for example, my daughter\u2019s a sophomore right now. She\u2019s like, hey, for my graduation, can we go to Hawaii? And I\u2019m like, for your graduation, I got a backyard barbecue, and you\u2019re asking for a\u2013 I can\u2019t even tell you how many thousand-dollar trip it would cost us to go to Hawaii. And also, can we bring my friend? And I\u2019m like\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, hold on. That\u2019s actually a really interesting example. So when she asked that, what exactly did you say to her?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:37]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0My initial response was, you\u2019re tripping. That was verbatim.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And then what did she say then? Did she say, come on, dad?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:45]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0No, she was basically like, why? It\u2019s like two years away. I\u2019m sure we could save for that. We as in she helps with the\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. And then what did you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:52]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0At that point, that\u2019s when I was like, okay, a two-year away trip, we could definitely plan for that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m in a horror movie right now, and it\u2019s all clear. And then I\u2019m turning the corner, and I just saw a freaking zombie walking towards me. Does anybody else see what I just saw?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:10]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All she had to do was be like, come on, dad. And you were like, sounds good. We\u2019ll save for it. No problem. I think I\u2019m starting to understand what\u2019s going on. Kristine, you want to add anything?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:20]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s pretty much what it is. It\u2019s the convincing. If you could give him a good\u2013 He\u2019s very logical. So if you can convince him logically, and the kids can convince him logically of something, they\u2019re like, oh, okay, well, maybe we can do that. We\u2019ll discuss it. Sometimes we\u2019ll discuss it. Sometimes I\u2019ll just take the kids and we\u2019ll do whatever it was.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I stand my ground as much as I can, but, come on. Let\u2019s be real. Yeah, we\u2019re probably going to do it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0People with spending problems almost always have problems saying no to their children. The two are highly correlated. In these situations, we almost always have one parent\u2013 overwhelmingly, it\u2019s mom\u2013 who feels bad if she says no and wants her kids to have everything. And almost always, this has a lot to do with how she was raised.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:08]\u00a0\u00a0Notice also that in heterosexual relationships at least, dads are very quick to say,\u00a0it\u2019s not like they walk all over me. And then it turns out that, actually, yes, the kids do walk all over them. The only exception was Episode 102, where you didn\u2019t even hear the slightest pushback from dad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:28]\u00a0Here\u2019s the point. This isn\u2019t just about dollars in the bank. Their financial troubles, like so many overspenders, are almost certainly due to an inability to set boundaries. There\u2019s no shared vision of how they\u00a0want to\u00a0use their money. They don\u2019t have any process for making decisions. In fact, the way it usually goes is\u00a0Kristine\u00a0says, come on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:49]\u00a0David says, really? And then they end up doing what\u00a0Kristine\u00a0wants. This is so common. It\u2019s literally a sitcom trope. This is not a healthy dynamic. In fact, it\u2019s one that\u2019s perpetuated across generations. Mom and dad couldn\u2019t say no, so we never learn to say no, so our children are not\u00a0going to\u00a0learn how to say no, and so on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:09]\u00a0\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back after this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:11]\u00a0At this point, I decided to take the conversation in a different direction.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to do something unusual. I\u2019m going to jump right into your numbers today. I would like to understand where you both are with your numbers, and I think that\u2019s going to affect the trajectory of what we talk about. How\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:26]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Sounds good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Kristine, why don\u2019t you read off the words in bold and then the number next to it? Let\u2019s start with your net worth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:33]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Assets, it\u2019s 696,349; investments, $9,054; savings, $7,049. And then debt, $700,338<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Total net worth.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:55]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Is $12,140<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Al right. How do you feel about that number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:02]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Not good. I think for me, I want to grow. I wanted to see I have that million-dollar mindset where I want to have that money and that wealth. So to me, it doesn\u2019t seem good at all.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you\u2019re both in your early to mid-30s.Correct? How do you feel about the number David?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:23]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s astronomical.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Which number\u2019s astronomical?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:28]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Pick one. But to me, I\u2019ve never had a savings account\u2013 not a deliberate one. How about that? The fact that we are able to afford and purchase a 630,000-dollar home with just saying like, that\u2019s what we want. It blows my mind. I also want to have that mentality of like, let\u2019s be millionaires. I do. But that\u2019s why I try to tell her like, we can. We make a lot of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you never had a savings account, so for you, $7,049, what does that feel like in a savings account?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:05]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0To me, it\u2019s crazy. It\u2019s crazy that we did that on purpose and we said we\u2019re putting money away. I\u2019ve just never in my past relationship. As a kid growing up, that was never a thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what do you think about the debt amount? It\u2019s $700,000 of debt. What do you think about that, David?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:23]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0So it doesn\u2019t scare me too much. The fact that I know that obviously the house is the huge majority of it. My truck is at 0% interest. So the loan that we have on my truck, that\u2019s one of the things that I\u2019ve learned, is if you have 0% interest loan and you\u2019re paying it off on time, it\u2019s free money. It\u2019s just sitting there. Again, you take away a 630,000-dollar house, and that makes it for a lot less.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Your current household income is $213,000. Did you all know that is how much you make household income?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:01]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s almost like a delusion me. I can see it. I can see things getting paid off, and I\u2019m like, ah, it\u2019s good. And I don\u2019t see the true depth of what it can cause down the line. Like said, instant happiness. But it\u2019s not setting us up down the road.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0David\u2019s about to retire. David, you\u2019re going to have a pension. What percent is your pension going to give you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:24]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Top three, 50%. I think I\u2019m going to be getting, let\u2019s call it 2,700 a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What? Are you serious?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:34]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Now, mind you, I\u2019m looking forward to and fully anticipate to be getting 100% disability, which adds another roughly $4,200 a month. I\u2019ll be roughly back at 7,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a07,000. And you currently make 8,000, so you\u2019re going to make about 7,000. Okay, fine. So it\u2019s like roughly the same minus 1,000 bucks a month. Fine. Let\u2019s look at the rest of the debt. So you mentioned some credit cards here. Kristine, what are these credit cards you have?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:02]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0The Amex was the 47, Discover is the 7,000. And then if we scroll over a little bit so I can see. Yeah. The Zales is the 3,000. The other Amex is David\u2019s Amex, so it goes along with that explanation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you guys have $3,000 on a Zales card?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:19]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you like for me to explain?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:20]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, go on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:21]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Happily. Five-year anniversary, five-year wedding anniversary. I said, let\u2019s upgrade your ring. $5,000 to what we saved. You got your budget ready to go. You spent $8,300 and something.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s the extra money on the Zales card.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:38]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What do y\u2019all think about this? Seems to be a pattern I see.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:49]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0When I think with that one, it was 0% APR. Let\u2019s pay it off before it gets any\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:57]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s still going. We still have time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How long?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Until September. So we\u2019ve been paying about 600, $700 to it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What interest rate is on your house, your mortgage?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:14]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So we\u2019re actually going to sign for it tomorrow. It\u2019s a 6.125.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait a minute, you\u2019re signing for a house tomorrow?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:23]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. So that house\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you serious?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:25]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Yeah. So that\u2019s what we\u2019re budgeting in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:27]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:27]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Uh-huh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait. Hold on. I did not know this. Okay, so you are getting a new house. How much are you putting down, and what\u2019s the mortgage?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:40]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So we have a VA loan. We don\u2019t have to put any down. We did put down a 4,000 deposit. But the mortgage is going to be, I believe a 4,100 and something payment a month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s for $630,000?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:01]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I can up my screen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s just do it online here. We\u2019ll just do it right here. Watch. 30-year fixed. What\u2019d you say? You got six point what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:11]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a06.125.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So your payment is what? 3,828 about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:19]\u00a0Kristine:\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How did you decide to buy this house? How\u2019d you decide if you could afford it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:25]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I plugged it into the spreadsheet, saw what the house payment was going to be, make sure that we still had the amount to put in, we\u2019re still going to be able to have the amount after extra for anything we needed. And then that\u2019s how we decided.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why are you guys buying a house, by the way?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:42]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0[Inaudible] that comes in. So was that 900?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What a surprise!<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:03]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So we need to do percent. I\u2019m bad at quick math.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:10]\u00a0Kristine:\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:10]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0Huh. That\u2019s nice. And of course, you\u2019re not factoring in maintenance on that. You\u2019re not factoring in the opportunity cost of, I know it\u2019s a small down payment, but investing that amount. Not factoring in any of the labor, in terms of going to Home Depot, etc., etc., etc. Oh, and of course, not the transaction costs of buying it and selling it, which will be tens of thousands of dollars. Do you have to get this house, out of curiosity? Is it too late to say no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:41]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We would lose the $4,000 escrow, but it\u2019s not too late to say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:46]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So for savings it\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Look, I\u2019m not going tell you to change something at the very last minute. Most people are not particularly savvy on how the financials work behind buying and selling a house. There\u2019s a lot of hidden costs, a ton, so much that it could make up for all the money you\u2019re trying to save in other areas.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:05]\u00a0I\u2019ll simply say this. You have an amount that you\u2019re going to commit to buy the house for and to spend every month. Fine. So you\u2019ve locked that in. Fine. That\u2019s part of your rich life? I don\u2019t mind it. We now got to make everything else work around that. But I have a question because I\u2019m looking at your CSP and when you say extra, if we just skip down really quick to investments, you have zero. And savings, you\u2019re saving $175 a month. How do those numbers strike you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:43]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to see more in investments, to be educated more on where to put that funding. I think neither of us were educated. It\u2019s acting off a feeling versus actually diving into the numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What feeling?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0A Disneyland trip, the kids, us, I know we\u2019re going to come out of that feeling happy. It\u2019s a great experience. It\u2019s memories. It\u2019s things we can look back on. Having the vehicle, a vehicle big enough to fit my kids in a safe\u2013 like with the truck. He\u2019s wanted a truck, so I know that it\u2019s going to invoke a feeling of happiness and being able to carry things in the truck that he couldn\u2019t in a smaller vehicle. The ring. To me, it was the first ring that I actually got to pick.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you\u2019re happy. You bought the ring. You bought the truck. You bought the vehicles. You bought the Disneyland trip. So if all that worked, then why are we here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:42]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s thinking about the future and those spending habits and whether or not we\u2019re actually making the right decisions. Like, okay, what\u2019s your rich life? What does your rich life look like? For me, it\u2019s being able to take the kids to Disneyland. It\u2019s being able to splurge a little bit on a ring. But looking at the other side of it is that when we\u2019re moving on into the future, is that truly going to bring us happiness down the road or is it just instant gratification?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I be honest? I think that both of you like to make impulsive decisions and now that it\u2019s starting to catch up with you where you have debt and you\u2019re realizing that you\u2019re spending thousands of dollars every month paying off debt, you have essentially very little in savings and investments, especially at your income level. I think you came to me so I could be the responsible one and you could keep doing the fun stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:41]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s someone actually saying, no, you cannot do that. And I think\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why do you need a parental figure like you\u2019re a child to tell no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:51]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ve never had someone say, no, you can\u2019t do that. Or if I ever did as a child, honestly, I did it anyways.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you catch that?\u00a0Kristine\u00a0said she\u2019d never had someone tell her no. And now she\u2019s passing that exact same money message along to her kids who will pass it on to their kids. Remember what I said a few minutes ago about perpetuating money attitudes across generations?\u00a0Well, I had to get really honest with Kristine and David about my role right now.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:22]\u00a0I\u2019m just going to tell you right now, I don\u2019t do the parental thing. I don\u2019t like treating adults like children. I think if you want to be treated like a child, there are other people who will do it. And I also find that when people try to enter into these dynamics, they\u2019re not actually serious about changing. You\u2019re nodding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:44]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0And I can see it in other aspects of our life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And I\u2019m actually really happy we get a chance to talk. I am. I genuinely want to help you, but I think you expected me to give you some razzle dazzle, Excel math, and a couple of tips, and it would all be fixed. And that\u2019s just not what I do. David, I see you nodding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:08]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I think not necessarily that exactly, but yes, I think she wanted to get some justification in a sense of, if you just change this one thing, then you\u2019d be fine. But not the one thing that you know is obvious to change in the spending. Something else maybe.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:26]\u00a0\u00a0Let me\u00a0cut in here really quick. Notice how David is trying to assign and delegate the problem to\u00a0Kristine\u00a0when he himself is involved in it too.\u00a0\u00a0Sure.\u00a0Kristine\u00a0might be unable to set boundaries, but so is David. The only difference is he pretends by saying, no, we shouldn\u2019t do that, until his family says, come on, dad, and then he agrees.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:48]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0For me, the consequence is what keeps me from being stricter with our money. Again, I have no problem saying no. But then it looks into, okay, well, what\u2019s the consequence of saying no? I tell her no, and stick to it and say, no, we\u2019re not doing that. It\u2019s going to be, in my mind, a spiral of unhappiness. We never get to do anything. And then it turns into fighting, and then it turns into just unhappiness.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But here\u2019s my question. Why does it have to be this dynamic where he\u2019s \u201cputting his foot down?\u201d I don\u2019t like that dynamic. It\u2019s very present in heterosexual relationships with money. The guy has to come in and put his foot down for the frivolous woman spending. I hate that\u00a0shit. It\u2019s so reductionist.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:44]\u00a0It\u2019s disempowering for you, Kristine, because you are treated like a child, and he doesn\u2019t even want to do it. Nobody wants to put their foot down for their intimate partner. This whole conversation has been dictated by this frame that somebody has to say no, because they\u2019re the adult and then someone\u2019s the frivolous butterfly just spending and doing what they want. So emotional. I don\u2019t accept that. I think that\u2019s a story you tell yourself. And honestly, that story, it\u2019s going to set you up for a really bad time over the next few years.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is very hard to hear because what I\u2019m really saying is that the entire way you look at the world is not serving you. They both have adopted this frame that spending is bad, that one person is an adult, that another can\u2019t be controlled, that kids need a lot of money and experiences to be happy. Just think of how hard it would be to change even one of those\u00a0worldviews.\u00a0Honestly,\u00a0in my experience, people will not change a deeply held worldview unless they absolutely, positively have to. And sometimes not even then, even when the stakes are life and death.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:07]\u00a0\u00a0Let\u2019s take a quick pause for a message from our sponsors<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:11]\u00a0\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to our conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:13]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Our youngest at the time, Doodle, turns 18. He\u2019s gone, and he\u2019s going to go live his life, and he is going to be gone. And who\u2019s going to be left? It\u2019s going to be me and you. And that\u2019s it. And we need to understand that it is a team. We are a team. Sure, as a family, we\u2019re a team, but ultimately, me and you only are a team, and we need to stick to that when it comes to anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:36]\u00a0I\u2019m already looked at as a tyrant because, like I said, if I say wash the dishes, you can\u2019t negotiate that. You\u2019re going to wash the dishes. So I have to, in order to not seem like the complete dictator of the house, give in in other ways. And it definitely shouldn\u2019t be the money, but that\u2019s the one that obviously I\u2019ve chosen to not put my foot down and say, no, if we\u2019re going to go to Disneyland, we\u2019re going to be frugal. It\u2019s not being sheep, it\u2019s just better planning.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Was your dad a tyrant?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:09]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I didn\u2019t have a dad. My stepdad came in when I was about 12, almost 13. But yeah, very much so. What he said goes, end of story.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you say you\u2019ve adopted some of those principles into your own parenting style?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:28]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Very few. I really try to not be the\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you just say two seconds ago that I\u2019m pretty much the tyrant in the house?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:40]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. In a sense of like I know what needs to get done, and I\u2019m not going to\u2013 I\u2019m not going to live in a dirty house, and I\u2019m also not going to clean up after you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:49]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I know he can probably attest to it, but I have come a long way from the beginning, from when we first got together, of telling them no. It\u2019s not always easy, don\u2019t get me wrong.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why do you not like to tell them no, out of curiosity?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:06]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s guilt with my older two<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:11]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Me and their dad divorced, so I feel like maybe I put them in a bad situation, where when they\u2019re around me, I don\u2019t want them to feel sad, or I don\u2019t want them to feel hurt, or I don\u2019t want them to have negative feelings when they\u2019re around mom.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And if you were to describe your identity today as a mom, give me a couple of words that would come to mind for you. Giving, caring. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:37]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Understanding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nice.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:39]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Supportive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Love it. Okay. If you were to say no to Disneyland now, describe who you would be as a mom.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:50]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Not caring.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:53]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0A bad mom. My rich life would be able to when someone needs help in my family or anything like that, that I can guilt-free give them the money<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:05]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0And not have to feel bad. If I could give my mom enough money that she needs to be able to be comfortable to stop working, I would say maybe $100,000. I think it\u2019s a hard truth that I don\u2019t want to accept at times because I\u2019m like, no, they need me. And it\u2019s not allowing them to see those things that they need to do to build, or grow, or to be, and get that we are at.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can\u2019t really think of a worst thing for a mom to think of herself as, when it comes to parenting, a bad mom. Okay?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:52]\u00a0\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:52]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0All right. So your mom, you mentioned. Are there others that you want to help out financially speaking?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:57]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0My sister. I help out financially with things every once in a while. I have my best friend, my goddaughter. Being able to them be successful and not have worry about things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait. Hold on, hold on. Aren\u2019t you worrying about stuff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:15]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So why are you helping them out with money when you don\u2019t have extra money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:25]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess I\u2019d rather see them being able to be okay, knowing that eventually I\u2019d pay off whatever I need to pay off, and I\u2019d be okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It makes me sad that you would see saying no to a $7,000 trip make you a bad mom. From what I\u2019ve heard, I don\u2019t think you\u2019re a bad mom. In fact, from what I\u2019ve heard, there\u2019s a lot of things you do really well. But the fact that you have created an identity where in order to be a good mom you have to what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:04]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Spend money on my kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Spend every dollar you have and never say no. That is the trap that you have created in your own head. And that\u2019s why it will be so hard for you to change. And there\u2019s even one more wrinkle. David, how do you think you play a role in this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:30]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Very much an enabler.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:35]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We have this conversation. It is, if not weekly, bi-weekly, of you do not have to buy them stuff so that they\u2019ll love. They\u2019ll love you regardless. You\u2019re an angel to them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0David, does it work?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:52]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0No, absolutely not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Has it worked for the last 10-plus years? Maybe if you try it for another 20 years, you\u2019ll get her. What do you think? Okay, so that doesn\u2019t work. What do you get out of it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:09]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Frustration. I know that seeing her happy makes me obviously feel better, but that\u2019s really it\u2019s her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. If that were the case, then you would literally just be like, I have a blanket yes to everything you ever want from me. I\u2019m not going to snipe at you about the Disney lunches. It\u2019s all good. Yet you don\u2019t do that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:31]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct. I still try to be the voice of reason.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, what does the voice of reason do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:39]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Being reasonable.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, she thinks she\u2019s being reasonable too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:44]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0No, she knows she\u2019s not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0She has very good reason. She goes, I got my spreadsheet. I\u2019m creating memories for the kids. I don\u2019t want to be a bad mom. Those are all things she thinks are reasonable. So what do you think is reasonable? To say no, put up a false fight, and then give in. Is that reasonable?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:03]\u00a0David:\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:03]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0Well, you do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:04]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think what you get out of this is you can inject a feeling of financial conservatism. You can be like, we really should be looking at our spending. We should be careful. And then you go, all right, I said my part. I don\u2019t need to have any responsibility in this. I\u2019m the responsible one, but she doesn\u2019t listen. And then you dump it on her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:29]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think about that, Kristine?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:34]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I can agree. It\u2019s the burden of, he told me, but if I make the wrong decision, then it is my fault, whatever decision was. I think to try and convince that whatever I\u2019m saying, or the way that I think we should go is the right way.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. And why do you want to do that? Why do you want to convince him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:56]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So I can keep doing what I\u2019m doing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. And so that what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:04]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0And so that the kids happy and I\u2019m happy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And that he\u2019s happy too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:09]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You want him to like you. And you want the kids to like you. Has he ever really gotten mad about the spending, like really gotten mad?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:22]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Has he ever made a household-wide change because of the spending?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:31]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow. That\u2019s so interesting. Okay. What are both noticing about this conversation right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:42]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel like what\u2019s more going into thinking about it, it\u2019s changing. I think at the beginning we\u2019re throwing out all these reasons and all these things, and now it\u2019s like, okay, looking deeper into it and listening.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you see?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:00]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0A shift.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What shift?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:03]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Mood. I know for me, it\u2019s finally finding these pain points of, I knew they were there, but I couldn\u2019t them. And now that it\u2019s looking at it and realizing where it\u2019s coming from, it\u2019s just different.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know if I understand it. Can you explain to me in a different way?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:27]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0So at the start, I came in here, like you said. I have my spreadsheet. I know what I\u2019m doing it\u2019s fine. And then realizing, no, down the line. It\u2019s not going to be fine. It was like you saying, a justification as to, yeah, yeah. You\u2019re doing what you need to do. Just some money into stocks. Do this. And it\u2019s truly a deeper fix than just on-the-surface spreadsheets and looking at numbers. It\u2019s like, what\u2019s the root cause? Why does this keep happening?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is the root cause as far as you understand right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:06]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0For me, it\u2019s no consequence. I have no consequence. I\u2019m going to do whatever it is that I want do, no matter what. I don\u2019t see a consequence. And if there is a consequence, I\u2019m already like, this is how I can fix it. This is how I\u2019m going to fix it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s very tempting to start rerunning these stories because they\u2019re so visceral and vivid to both of you. Do y\u2019all notice that you do this a lot?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:30]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0It literally just happened last week.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Kristine is nodding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:37]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t come up with a plan together. We could talk about it, yeah. But when we sit down and do the plan, I\u2019m the one doing the plan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:48]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Because David just sits there and lets me put the numbers together. He doesn\u2019t really double check it or anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:57]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I think ultimately, I know she\u2019s going to do whatever she wants anyway, so what\u2019s the point?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe it\u2019s a lack of trust here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0My part or her part?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:13]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I definitely don\u2019t trust that she\u2019ll stick to a plan if we make one.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:17]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I can see he\u2019s filling that way. I\u2019ve definitely set a plan and gone over budget. I could put two spreadsheets all day, every day, but do I stick to it 100%? No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So why do you even do it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:35]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It gives me that sense of, we\u2019re okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Feelings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:39]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Or we\u2019re\u00a0going to be okay. Yeah. It\u2019s the feelings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Feelings are important, but they\u2019re not the only thing, and I get the sense that you let feelings control what you do with your money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:50]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think that maybe there\u2019s a different way to manage your money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:55]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, and I think the feelings can sometimes drive away from what your ultimate goal is, I think.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But you don\u2019t have a goal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:06]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No, not right now. I think it\u2019s an idea of the goal. I think it\u2019s an idea of what we want, but it\u2019s not put out there. It\u2019s just, keep making money, and then keep growing, keep buying things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, that\u2019s America. You are like literally tens of millions of Americans. You could do it. It\u2019ll be fine. And then at some point, one of you\u2019ll get sick or you\u2019ll get laid off, and it will be a panic. You\u2019ll go into more debt, and then you\u2019ll just do that for the rest of your life. You know people who\u2019ve done that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:41]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How is it for them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:45]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Not good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:47]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Not good. I\u2019ve seen even my parents. They can\u2019t retire. They\u2019re still working. My mom has fibromyalgia, and so she\u2019s always pain, and she\u2019s always hurting. But she can\u2019t not work. She has to work right now to make the money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I hate that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:09]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I hate that for her. I hate that for your family. I hate that for you. Did you see the show that I had on Netflix?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:18]\u00a0Kristine:\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:18]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0Okay. Do you remember the couple, Millie and Christian in New Jersey? Christian was the one who wanted to retire his mom. Do you remember this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:28]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Does that connect with you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:30]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It did. Yeah. I am the person that will buy stuff for people because I know that they are struggling. And he tells me that all time. We go to dinner. We\u2019re going order food, and I\u2019m like, what does everybody want? Because I want to take care of everybody. I want be able to know that I can take care of people. And buying things for my mom, or they came on the trip. And there\u2019s some things I did pay for for my mom. It\u2019s like, for me, I\u2019ll let friends borrow money. And so to me, it\u2019s like taking care of others.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When do you say no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:18]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0If someone\u2019s hurting, it\u2019s very rare that I say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When was the last time you said no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:26]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I couldn\u2019t tell you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You say yes to everyone except for the two of you. Because yes would mean saying no to certain other things. And Kristine, if you said no to the people in your life, what would that make you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:59]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019d be hard. It would be hard because I feel like I\u2019ve taken of a lot of my family and a lot of the things for them. So to me, it almost feels a failure. Not being able to be there for them, not being able to help them. It would be hard. It would be hard. I would feel like I\u2019m abandoning or not giving my 100% to help them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you have to help them through money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:37]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s the only thing I feel like I can help them with right now. I can be there for them. It just doesn\u2019t seem enough when I see that they\u2019re struggling or that they need something. So I\u2019m like, well, let\u2019s figure out how we can get that for you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I can understand when somebody\u2019s struggling. That I can understand. But I see the same principle with taking five kids to Disneyland. Kids don\u2019t need to go to Disneyland. Right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:08]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I ask you something? You ever give them an amount and you say, here\u2019s what this amount is for. It\u2019s up to you how you want to spend it. Have you ever done that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:23]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Sort of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah? How so?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:25]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0School shopping.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:26]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Spend\u00a0money on\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:28]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We had all the kids, and I said, I think it was $200 per, and that includes clothes, backpack, shoes, all this stuff. I don\u2019t know that either of them stuck to it. She was just like, that\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then what happened when you took him out, Kristine?\u00a0Okay. So what lessons do you think they took away from that? Yeah. Okay. Going forward, for school shopping, clothes, etc., how does it work, Kristine? Tell me.\u00a0We\u2019re going to pick a number and put it on here for the month for conscious spinning plan. So if your kids come to you and they go, I need this, I need that, what are you going to say to them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:37]\u00a0Damn. Okay. Round of applause. That was so good. You caught that ball and you handed it very lovingly right back to them. Are you seeing this, David?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:47]\u00a0David:\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a beautiful skill. You can adapt this for your own style, but there\u2019s something reall\u2013 Kristine is very talented at this. It\u2019s amazing. I think there\u2019s a been a bit of a breakthrough here, Kristine, that I see in you.\u00a0You\u2019re skilled for sure, which is amazing, but also, you\u2019re starting to develop this visible confidence, like, yeah, I can do this, and I actually like it.\u00a0I\u2019m I reading this correctly?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:13]\u00a0Kristine:\u00a0I\u2019ve read it. It\u2019s understood. I just thought that being able to pay it off eventually, it\u2019s fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, yes. You\u2019re a good mom. Yes. You\u2019re a good mom. If sometimes you say no, you can do it lovingly, but you\u2019ll teach them\u00a0a lesson along the way. They won\u2019t realize it for a while, but you are teaching them something. Okay. Fantastic. Can you imagine in an alternate reality where you had a fund you were saving up for the Disney trip, and one or both of you overspent on something and you just couldn\u2019t afford to go to Disneyland that year? And what would you have told your kids? Sorry, we overspent on Christmas lights, therefore we can\u2019t go to Disneyland this year. How do you think that would\u2019ve gone over?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:08]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, they\u2019d be all sad and upset, but it is what it is, and we have to cover what we need to pay for.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, but there\u2019s never been that conversation in your family ever, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:18]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Not at all.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. I give it about one night, one night where you tell them we\u2019re not going to Cheesecake Factory. Everybody starts crying, freaking throwing things across the room, breaking glass. And you go, okay, fine, fine, fine. We\u2019ll go to Cheesecake Factory. It\u2019s fine. And that\u2019s the end of that. So what do you want to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:44]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to change. I want to be able to be that partner where he\u2019s not tyrant. He and I are on that same page where I can also say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:59]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Partner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. Hey Kristine, what do you do for work, by the way?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:05]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0A business manager. I run different parts of businesses. I do operations for one business. I manage contracts for another business.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Love it. You got people you can count on at work who you know will always deliver?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:20]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Love that. How\u2019s that feel to have that person or people at work that you know you can always count on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:26]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Amazing. Because I know there\u2019s not a lot them. So when have that one that can just deliver, it\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. Now, what if David was that for you and you were that for him, when it comes to your finances?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:41]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It would be amazing to be able to just both be able to count on each other with those and immediately know that whatever those decisions, we\u2019ve already discussed them together as a team and we\u2019re sticking to it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love this. It\u2019s a totally different way of looking at your relationship with each other and with your kids. It\u2019s like, no, we\u2019re partners. We\u2019re going to talk about it. We\u2019re going to discuss it. We might disagree on certain things, but we\u2019re going to come up with something that works for both of us. And I know 100% I can count on him and he can count on me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:13]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. And I think being to be that accountability for me, because he does. We do come with plans, and it was always like, it\u2019s going to be fine, but now this is what we decided. We\u2019re a team. You\u2019re only as strong as your weakest player. And right now, I am the weakest player, so I need to step up and be that partner with him.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I love that. I think it\u2019s very admirable. David, I know that you know what it\u2019s like to work with a team. What would it be like to have a partner when it comes to your finances?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:52]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0It would be almost a sense of relief. Again, I\u2019ve used that term many times to say, we need to take care of each other. Our kids are great. Our kids are taken care of. Our kids are living a very, very nice life, especially compared to what we grew up with. We don\u2019t have to do all this stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:13]\u00a0And again, it\u2019s the putting the foot down thing, say, I hate that mentality of doing that. They need to understand like, look, man, you guys are in a great house. You don\u2019t want for anything. Just because you can\u2019t go to Hawaii for your graduation\u2013 a bad dad. You\u2019re not being a bad mom. That would be awesome. But not at an expense of us not having anything to show for our own retirement and our own savings.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really good. I love everything you said, and I\u2019m going to give you a couple of subtle reframes because I think these will come up later. The idea that if we say no to our kids, we\u2019re bad parents. Let\u2019s reframe that into, we\u2019re going to put us first, mom and dad, as a unit first, and we\u2019re going to provide a great, safe, fun life for our kids, but as a unit, our plan comes first. How would that feel?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:18]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019d\u00a0be awesome.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I know you like it, David. How about for you, Kristine?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:22]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Like I said, it makes. That\u2019s what we need to do, us first. So it\u2019s better to build it and to be on that same page where I know that when I say no to my kids, David\u2019s there with me, and we have each other.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can be a strong, capable person who\u2019s taken seriously. And you can do with love too. You can be like, you know what? I wish we could fly. We\u2019re not able\u00a0to do that based on our plan for this year. End of discussion. Why are you smiling, Kristine? She\u2019s like, yes, yes. That\u2019s what I\u2019ve been telling him. I\u2019m like, what the hell? Why smiling? Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:06]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I get told it\u2019s my tone all the time.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, that\u2019s yeah.\u00a0Okay. This is incredible. Look at this, you guys. Look at the smiles. I love it. Okay. This is a way to connect. This is so amazing. So now that we\u2019ve established that the two of you are going to be a unit, can we come up with a name for this unit? Call it anything you like, team, whatever, or The Go-to unit, whatever.\u00a0Give me a name.\u00a0Okay. David, are you on board with that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:47]\u00a0David:\u00a0Oh yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:49]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0Okay. Love it. Love it. Team Herm, that\u2019s the two of you. I would recommend you come up with a little logo. Two of you can draw it out. Pick something fun that the two of you come up with together, just the two of you. Team Herm. How would you describe Team Herm? What is Team Herm like?\u00a0Love it. What else? Let\u2019s go back and forth. Toss the ball back and forth to each other..<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:23]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Driven<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Driven. Keep going back and forth.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:30]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s true. It\u2019s a lot of the coming into it initially. He is a lot more strict than I am, a lot more strict. And he has opened my eyes to some of those things.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, hold on. I got to take a round of applause. Now when you make decisions, you also want to ask, who\u2019s David on Team Herm? Y\u2019ll seen those shows where it\u2019s like American clay or whatever they are like, 6\u20334, from Belgium, whatever. So David in the past would have been? Tyrant. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:08]\u00a0David:\u00a0Strict<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Strict. Yeah, that\u2019s good. What else? Rule setter. Uh-huh. And what about when somebody said, come on, dad. What would you have done then?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:20]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0A pushover.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:21]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0He ended up doing the dishes. He just stayed up reallylate.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Pushover, yes. That\u2019s the old Dave. What\u2019s the new David in Team Herm?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:30]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Just a leader.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:33]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it is a mom thing. I think it\u2019s that, like, oh, they\u2019re my babies. I need to protect them and make sure that they\u2019re doing all fun.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. Damn. Round of applause. So good. There\u2019s such an immediate vivid difference between a tyrant and a leader, right? What\u2019s the difference, David?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:49]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0A leader, I think, is a little more respected over feared, and a tyrant is feared over respected.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I like that. And a leader inspires you because ultimately, like you know, at work, your leader has to get you to do what you\u2019re going to do and do it well without them being there. Just as you do. But a tyrant always has to be watching over you. I love that. Okay. David used to be a pushover, but in Team Herm, David is a? Wow. I bet you David, you would\u2019ve never thought of that one.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:27]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So rather than being a pushover where you say yes, but you pretend it, but then you say no, it\u2019s actually like, you know what? I\u2019m going to listen. Kristine, do you see how much work David\u2019s going to have to put in here? Okay. Exactly. And I think that he would be willing to put that work in.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:48]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you are putting in equivalent work and you\u2019re both talking about it and sharing, right?<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:56]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Same. I think we should be more, I think just from\u2013 it\u2019s the comparison thing. It\u2019s like, okay, well, these people have this much in their investments and savings.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I found this conversation really difficult. The reason that I do what I do is that I went through my own process of learning about money.\u00a0I know how hard it is to change the entire way you look at the world. It\u2019s not easy. But I\u2019ve also seen what happens when you can do it. When I see couples talking about money in a way that drives them apart, it doesn\u2019t bring\u00a0them\u00a0together.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:36]\u00a0It\u2019s painful to see, especially when I know that they could live an incredibly rich life. I can see their numbers. I can see that with a few changes, they could bring their family together. They could have their kids participate in paying off debt, and saving, and investing, and yes, going to Disneyland, but of course, it\u2019s not my journey.\u00a0It\u2019s not my rich life, it\u2019s theirs. So what I can do is to have a conversation with\u00a0them, hopefully bring them together, and show them a path of what\u2019s possible.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:07]\u00a0Today, in the end, I was able to give them a few gentle suggestions. When I saw how deeply held their worldviews were, I realized the best thing I could do would be to allow them to build a connection between the two of them so they could see themselves as a united team.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:23]\u00a0The rest would take a lot of work and also a lot of luck. I spent a lot of time demonstrating specific word for word scripts that they could use in certain situations they\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0encounter, like how to respond to family members who want money, and kids who want a trip that they can\u2019t afford. But again, changing someone\u2019s worldview is incredibly difficult, and it\u2019s nearly impossible in just a few hours.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:45]\u00a0The fact is they\u2019re in debt. They can still afford to have a nice house and take some trips and cars. There\u2019s nothing right now that\u2019s going to force them to change. So while I genuinely hope they make a huge change, honestly, I would be surprised if they do. Let\u2019s hear their follow ups. Starting let with\u00a0Kristine.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:04]\u00a0<strong>Kristine:<\/strong>\u00a0The biggest takeout of all of it for me was that I can help others, and not necessarily solve their problems, but be there to support them in other ways other than money. And also David and I are number one always when it comes to our finances and our team so that we always focus on each other\u2019s goals and what we want to build versus going off and doing our own thing.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:37]\u00a0So David and I have sat down, looked at our finances, and have already started setting towards our goal. So we appreciate you giving us that little kick in the butt that we needed, and we look forward to meeting those goals that you helped us to see clear.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s move on now to David\u2019s follow up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:57]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0One of the things that I learned that I think is going to be most impactful to me and my wife and our family is that this is not going to be an easy track. This is going to be something that we\u2019re going to have to put some serious effort into. Changing our habits, it\u2019s going to be tough, but I know after we\u2019ve talked, that this is important to us, and we do intend to make it a priority.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:25]\u00a0I think that was our biggest thing. We would always talk about doing it and never actually writing it down, never making it a goal. We\u2019re going to be moving forward with doing better for us, me and her specifically. But again, thank you so much.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:40]\u00a0Ramit:\u00a0I appreciate their follow-ups, but it is notable that I didn\u2019t get any specifics about what they\u2019re\u00a0going to\u00a0change.\u00a0Kristine\u00a0and David, I wish you the best and I\u00a0want to\u00a0thank you for coming on here and discussing your finances with me.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Kristin is 32 and David is 38. They share five kids in a blended family and David is getting close to military retirement. The problem is their spending\u2014fueled by emotions alone, they make purchase after purchase, soaring over set budgets and putting the future of their family at risk. This episode is brought to you [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118922","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118922","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118922"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118922\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118922"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118922"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}