{"id":118934,"date":"2023-12-26T13:42:00","date_gmt":"2023-12-26T17:42:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118934"},"modified":"2026-02-23T15:39:44","modified_gmt":"2026-02-23T19:39:44","slug":"136-david-halima","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/136-david-halima\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 136. \u201cWe have $500k in debt. Can I retire early?\u201d (Part 1)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe're $500,000 in debt. Can I retire early?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/hIThZEtcC_k\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/05aOyx4GGWCNmnRP5h5lTS?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>David\u2019s 33 and Halima\u2019s 37. They\u2019re been married for one year, a second union for both. The deep emotional (and financial) scars from those past relationships tint how they see the world today, limiting their ability to cooperate and leading to ill conceived get-rich-quick schemes and mounting debt.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>Superhuman | Get a free month of lighting fast email at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/try.sprh.mn\/ramitsethi\">https:\/\/try.sprh.mn\/ramitsethi<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2013 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Long Angle | If you\u2019ve made a lot of money and you\u2019re looking for a community of peers to turn to for advice, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/www.longangle.com\/\">https:\/\/www.longangle.com\/<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0to learn more.<\/p>\n<p>Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>LMNT | Right now, LMNT is offering 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. This is a great way to try all 8 flavors. Get yours at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT\">https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/137-david-halima\">\u201cMLMs, crypto, real estate\u2014I can\u2019t stop falling for get-rich-quick schemes\u201d (Part 2)<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/75-jenee-dan\/\">\u201cWe 4x\u2019d our salary as COVID nurses. The experience haunts us. So does the money\u201d<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=hTy2Vh0GuIQ\">Why I Don\u2019t Own A House as a Multi-Millionaire\u2026<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:00:00] Seeing where I\u2019ve come from, everything I\u2019ve been through, I actually feel like I\u2019m rich. So I feel like I\u2019ve hit rock bottom twice. And I feel like I did a pretty good job at climbing myself out of it. I was basically homeless at one point.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:00:24] With my first marriage, I divorced my ex-husband because of financial infidelity. And it ended the day after Halloween, on November 1st, 2019. We got a knock on the door. It was the owner of the house with the sheriff, another cop, evicting us. I lost everything except for my children.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:00:53] Both of us went through a lot. And I understand she went through a lot, and I want to show her that life is better now because we have each other. But financially, we\u2019re pretty much back in the hole.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:01:13] Meet David and Halima. David\u2019s 33. Halima is 37. They\u2019ve been married for about a year. This is their second marriage for each of them. Now, they initially came to speak to me because David wanted to know if he could retire early. But when I started to peel the layers of their finances, I was truly shocked. And not just once, multiple times.<\/p>\n<p>In this conversation, you\u2019re going to hear the ways that both of them treat money. We\u2019re going to delve into their past to try to understand their behavior, and you are going to hear a lot of puzzling explanations today. My goal for you is to help you try to understand why people act the way they do with money. Now let\u2019s meet David and Halima.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:01:57] I was talking to my wife about investments and stuff, and she hasn\u2019t invested in a Roth 401k, nothing like that. So when I asked her if her job matches, she didn\u2019t know. And then I told her, Ramit says 10%. So just put 10% towards your investments from your paychecks. And she said she didn\u2019t feel comfortable with that, which was frustrating to me. And she said, all right, let\u2019s do baby steps, and she did 1%.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:02:38] He started mentioning word investment, and I just felt like the anxiety rushed through me. And then he started mentioning things, Roth IRA, etc. And to me, finances is not something that I\u2019ve never studied. I don\u2019t really have much experience with it. So to me, it\u2019s like a different language. Let\u2019s just put it this way. I don\u2019t like to take money and put it into something that I don\u2019t truly understand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:03:15] Mm. Because?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:03:21] Because I\u2019m afraid I\u2019m going to lose it. When I think of investment, I think of gambling. I think of stock markets. I think of gambling. So it\u2019s like a different language to me. I don\u2019t understand it, so I just freeze. I do try to hear him out and try to take in the information that he\u2019s giving me. But to me, numbers, it\u2019s just a big mush.<\/p>\n<p>And I shut down. When I start hearing things like that, I feel not only the anxiety, but I start to get angry. Angry that I don\u2019t understand. And that when I ask him to explain to me, I get angry because I feel like he\u2019s not really doing a great job explaining it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:04:06] Do you remember what you asked him to explain and then what he said?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:04:12] About investments and percentages, all that with the numbers, and the difference between 1% and 10%. I\u2019m just like, well, where does that money come from? Where is it going? How come I don\u2019t see it? I need to see things. I\u2019m very visual. And you add more words in there that I don\u2019t understand, and I shut down okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:04:38] And then do you get angry at him?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:04:40] I get angry at him. I get angry at myself. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:04:45] Are you going to get angry at me today.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:04:47] No. I would like to understand the process better before I commit. I\u2019m going to do it regardless because I trust him. And that\u2019s what you\u2019ve been saying. But I don\u2019t want to go into it blindly. I feel like in the past that\u2019s what I\u2019ve done, not really understanding things, but trusting people. I do trust David, but again, I also want to trust myself. And right now, I don\u2019t trust myself with money.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:05:23] Let\u2019s take a second to deconstruct what Halima just said about investing and gambling because it is such a common belief. To Halima, investing feels scary, feels like you\u2019re taking all this money you worked so hard for, throwing it into some black box with a confusing name like 401k or SEP-IRA, and then just hoping that it spits money back to you.<\/p>\n<p>Of course, she wouldn\u2019t go to Vegas and spend all of her savings account on slots, so why should she invest it in any way? And anyway, does it really matter? Because after all, to Halima, she earns money, she sees the money in her checking account, and it feels safe to her. Unfortunately, the cost of this belief that investing is gambling can literally be hundreds of thousands or even millions of dollars.<\/p>\n<p>The people who believe this are worried that they\u2019re going to lose money by investing, but they are actually losing hundreds of thousands of dollars that they could have had if they had sensibly invested. And predictably, as they get older, they get increasingly worried about money, never realizing that their own fear is directly responsible for their precarious financial situation.<\/p>\n<p>Now, I have a lot of compassion for people who feel like this. They often have nobody around them who ever invested. In fact, a lot of them had family members who themselves said, just save your money. People like us don\u2019t invest. But I can acknowledge their upbringing and also highlight the importance of personal responsibility.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019ll notice that 100% of people who say this, that investing feels like gambling, have never read a single book about money. They don\u2019t understand that by investing in an index fund, you\u2019re essentially buying a share of 500 of America\u2019s best companies. And they don\u2019t understand that by taking a long-term view, one in which stocks have typically returned over 7% for the past 70 plus years, they can totally change their socioeconomic future.<\/p>\n<p>This is why I completely understand when people tell me that investing feels like gambling. But it also makes me really sad, and it makes me really frustrated too.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>So when you think about the money in your relationship today, what word comes to mind for you, David?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:00] Well, seeing where I\u2019ve come from, everything I\u2019ve been through, I actually feel like I\u2019m rich.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:09] Really? Tell me more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:11] So when I was a teenager, I didn\u2019t grow up very wealthy or anything with my family. My parents wouldn\u2019t give me money, so then I went out and tried making money on my own.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:26] How\u2019d you do that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:30] We did boxing, my friends and I.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:32] Okay. Where was this? Where did you grow up? We didn\u2019t do this in Sacramento. Where did you do this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:37] It\u2019s here in new Jersey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:39] Oh, say no more. New Jersey. All right. Fine. Like street boxing?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:45] Street boxing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:46] Yeah. Did you use gloves?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:48] Most of the time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:51] What the fuck? Okay. All right. Boxing. This is crazy. What else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:08:56] I tried getting a job at certain stores, but they were like, yeah, we\u2019re not hiring a 14-year-old. Yeah. My friends and I would go into convenience stores, like 7-Eleven and stuff, and we would steal candy and sell it at school.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:09:10] Oh, this is crazy. Boxing, stealing stuff. This is insane.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:09:17] I was a pretty bad kid. My mom says that she\u2019s very grateful that I joined the army because it straightened me out.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:09:24] I\u2019ve heard that from a number of people.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:09:26] I feel like I\u2019ve hit rock bottom twice, and I feel like I did a pretty good job at climbing myself out of it. I was basically homeless at one point. I got myself out of that. I wasn\u2019t making much money, but yeah, I\u2019m financially well off right now, I feel like, except for when it comes to retirement. Right now, I feel like I\u2019m probably going to work till I die, which I love my job. I probably am going to keep doing something similar to that after I retire, but I want to do it on my own time, and I want to do it as a hobby.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:10:17] Okay, so you feel rich, especially in light of where you\u2019ve come from. And you mentioned you hit rock bottom twice. One was when you were nearly homeless. How old were you at the time?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:10:29] 22.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:10:30] Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:10:32] Yeah. It was for a year and a half. I was basically squatting in the house that my family basically just left. There was no running water, no electricity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:10:48] How did you get out of that? That\u2019s a tough situation.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:10:52] So to shower and stuff, I got myself a gym membership. Thankfully, I still had a car. I had one job, and then I was trying to do a lot of overtime with that job, but it wasn\u2019t enough. So then I got myself another job, and then a third job, and I was basically just trying to save up money. I tried paying the water bills so that I could at least have running water, but because it wasn\u2019t under my name, the company wasn\u2019t taking it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:11:25] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:11:26] Yeah. I tried using the Army as well because I\u2019m in the Army Reserves. So I would ask to be put on orders from my leadership, and they would occasionally try to help me out with that. And then eventually, I found an opportunity with Rutgers, where they would put me through a program for veterans. Yeah. I was so tired from working all those jobs I got into two car accidents from falling asleep driving.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:12:03] Jeez. What was the second time you hit rock bottom?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:12:07] After my first divorce. Well, my only divorce because that\u2019s not happening again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:12:15] Do you mind sharing what happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:12:18] So my ex-wife, she liked to spend a lot. She was very materialistic. She grew up with her mom not working, so she didn\u2019t want to work. She had a job. And then while we were on our honeymoon, she got laid off. It was literally right in the middle of the honeymoon. She got a message from her supervisor saying that the company was bought off, and she\u2019s not going to be with the company anymore when she comes back.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:12:52] Oh my God.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:12:53] And after that, she didn\u2019t have a job. She was physically violent towards me because I wouldn\u2019t listen to her. She would tell me not to do overtime, but I\u2019m like, how are we going to pay bills? Yeah, that dragged on for three years. And the point where I was just like, I can\u2019t do this anymore, I have to get divorced, is when she literally threatened to kill me. I had to get the police involved and everything.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:13:27] Okay. Wow. Well, I\u2019m sorry you had to go through that. That is tough, devastating. Nobody should have to go through that. And now I think I understand a little bit more about why you said you feel rich. Because you don\u2019t have the things that you had in the past from 22 on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:13:51] Right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:13:51] Thank you for walking me through it. I really appreciate it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>David\u2019s story highlights how our past can affect how we feel about money in a profound way. Because he was previously homeless, anything feels better than that. In fact, having tens of thousands of dollars in credit card debt feels rich to him. Why? Because he can still go on vacations with his family. And this is one thing that really fascinated me.<\/p>\n<p>If we\u2019re talking about buying something, like a car or a nice vacation, I can take two people with the exact same financial situation, and I can ask them a single question. Can you afford it? One person will say, of course. The other will say, no way. Not in a million years. Two people with exactly the same financial situation can have a dramatically different interpretation of if they can afford something. They can have different risk tolerances.<\/p>\n<p>One might say we can\u2019t buy a car without a six-month emergency fund. Another might say, yeah, let\u2019s get it. We need it for the kids, and we\u2019ll figure out the finances later. Our feelings, which are directly affected by our past, have a massive impact on how we see money today. Yet, we often genuinely believe that money is just about dollars and cents on a page.<\/p>\n<p>This example reminds me of Episode 75 with the COVID nurses, one of whom thought that because they paid off their debt, he should buy a luxury car even though they had no investments. Principle is the same. His past shaped his view of money today.<\/p>\n<p>So when you hear someone acting in a way that surprises you with money, it is possible that their numbers are simply different than what you thought behind closed doors. But it\u2019s also very possible that their past is causing them to act in a way that you would never, ever act yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>David, you described some of your past finances as some get-rich-quick stuff. Tell me about those.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:05] I joined two different MLMs.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:12] What? Two? You know what? That doesn\u2019t surprise me. Because when someone joins one, they usually end up in another. It\u2019s very similar to why somebody who joins a cult is susceptible to joining another cult. But I want to know which MLMs. Tell us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:27] First one started with an A.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:32] Amway?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:33] Yeah, Amway. And then the other one, I think it\u2019s called GirlVentures.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:39] What do they sell?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:42] Packaging deals for traveling.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:47] Oh, okay. All right. So what drew you to those?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:51] Actually, also Primerica.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:16:54] Fuck. They\u2019re the worst. Wait, you were a sales rep for Primerica?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:17:00] Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:17:00] By the way, do you know how many people are watching and listening to this podcast right now who are getting so fucking mad because they\u2019re involved in one of those. And they\u2019re about to write me these messages. Primerica is not actually an MLM. If you technically define\u2013 I fucking have a Netflix show where I talk about what an MLM is. Don\u2019t tell me what an MLM is. I know. Don\u2019t send me messages. Just unsubscribe. All right, so you got out. What was the thing that initially drew you there?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:17:27] Basically that I would be my own boss, and I determine how much money I make. So I can determine whether I am going to be continuing at, they call\u2013 the WorldVentures one is the one that I got mostly involved with. Yeah. Basically, they were saying you are your own boss. You determine your destiny. You determine if you\u2019re going to be financially successful or not.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:04] It\u2019s a powerful vision.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:05] Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:06] It just happens to be a complete scam that over 99% of people fail at. And just to do a quick statistical check, David, did you make a lot of money with one, two, three MLMs?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:19] No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:19] Shocking, shocking. All these MLM people about to send me messages on social media. They\u2019re like, David just didn\u2019t work hard enough. If you put the time in, you can get the results out. I have the statistics. All right. So you got out. So that was one get-rich-quick thing you joined. What else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:37] I tried doing the whole cryptocurrency thing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:42] How\u2019d that go?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:44] Terrible. I held on when I should have sold.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:48] That\u2019s about all we need to cover on that. That\u2019s pretty much most crypto guys. All right. Okay. Who else? What else did you do for get rich quick?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:18:55] Let\u2019s see. What else did I do?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:00] You did try getting a real estate license?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:02] Oh, I tried getting my real estate license.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:05] Oh, my God, the realtors already hate me, so we can just sidestep this one. All right, so you tried to get that? That didn\u2019t work. What else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:12] I tried getting jobs with certificates, when in reality, you need to get a job with a degree.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:24] Okay, okay. So what\u2019s the thread among all these decisions?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:30] Get rich quick does it really work?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:34] But you knew that. Everyone says. It\u2019s in the air. Don\u2019t try to get rich quick. And yet you did all these things. Why?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:42] Because I would see that there are some people that succeeded, but it\u2019s such a minuscule amount that it\u2019s nearly impossible to make it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:19:52] Why didn\u2019t you try to be in the NBA? You can pick up a basketball, and you could throw it. There are people who do that and make millions of dollars. Why didn\u2019t you try that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:02] I didn\u2019t train hard enough.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:05] Yeah, yeah, yeah. What was the period of time from the first get-rich-quick scheme until the last? Or is it still going on?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:15] No, no, it\u2019s not going on anymore.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:17] All right. What was the time period?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:18] It\u2019s about five years ago. I would say maybe when I was a teenager, it started.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:25] It\u2019s like 10 years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:27] No. More like almost 20.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:20:30] 20 years. Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>This is a great reminder that people can stay married to delusions for far longer than you think. In investing, there\u2019s a famous phrase, markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent. Meaning if you\u2019re making a bet against the market, you\u2019re saying this just doesn\u2019t make sense. Maybe you\u2019re right. Maybe not. But the market can keep acting irrationally far past the point where you run out of money. And many great investors have experienced exactly that.<\/p>\n<p>In this case, the psychology here is very simple. Get rich quick. David is what I call a believer. He believes that success is right around the corner with the next MLM, the next crypto, the next real estate license. And you hear how he swallowed these messages whole. I can work for myself. I don\u2019t have to have a boss. I don\u2019t want to trade time for money. I can control my future.<\/p>\n<p>It turns out that most of us respond better to a big promise than a smaller, sensible one. And companies know this. This is why they offer one huge prize, not 10 smaller prizes with better odds. In other words, companies know exactly how humans act. They know how you act often far better than you do. And that\u2019s why the average person has very little chance of winning when they go up against Realtors, MLM, timeshare salespeople, AUM financial advisors, mutual funds who specialize in survivorship bias, and so much more.<\/p>\n<p>What I\u2019m trying to do with all of my work is to equip you to understand how you can actually build serious wealth without having to spend a ton of time on it. But the one ingredient you need is patience. If you don\u2019t have that, I can\u2019t help you. And you are basically prey for the entire financial industry. Now let\u2019s talk to Halima.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:22:45] I\u2019m scared. Nervous?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:22:51] What are you scared about?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:22:53] Trying to make sure that I\u2019m going in the right path and doing things the right way this time.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:22:59] Yeah. This time. What happened the first time?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:23:05] I lost everything except for my children.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:23:09] Do you mind telling me a little bit of what happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:23:11] No, I don\u2019t mind. With my first marriage, I divorced my ex-husband because of financial infidelity.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:23:22] What happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:23:24] We were going under, and I didn\u2019t know. He was a high school teacher, and I had a great job, and I got pregnant with my firstborn and decided that I wanted to be a housewife and have babies, raise children. And that the man of the house was going to work. And my ex-husband was in banking. He was in finance. And to me, I feel like if you\u2019re dealing with money, you know everything about money.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:24:07] Ah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:24:08] Yeah, yeah. The house that we purchased when I was working, we were going into foreclosure. He was responsible for all the bills, and I trusted him with that as any good wife. In the beginning, I was married to my ex about 10 years, 12 years total, being together with him. So I trusted him, and I loved him.<\/p>\n<p>The house was being sold because I thought that\u2013 I was pregnant with my second now. They\u2019re only 16 months apart, and we needed to upgrade. We were living in a really small 1,200 square foot home, so we wanted to upgrade and buy something bigger and better. So for about six months while we were\u2013 we sold the house, but it was actually foreclosed. The bank took it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:25:10] You didn\u2019t know this?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:25:11] I didn\u2019t know this. I didn\u2019t know this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:25:13] Wow.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:25:13] We ended up renting a house. And while we were renting this house and sold our home, with that money, we were going to buy something bigger. So for about six months, I became really, really good friends with the real estate agent that we were working with because my Saturdays and Sundays would be going to look at homes with him. Even weekdays, we\u2019d look at homes. So it was this grand plan for him to drag things on because he knew that once I found out, I was going to leave him.<\/p>\n<p>And it ended the day after Halloween, on November 1st, 2019. We got a knock on the door. It was the owner of the house with the sheriff, another cop, evicting us. My son, at the time, was about 18 months old. My daughter was a little bit older. They were both in diapers, and I still have the hamper that\u2019s downstairs that I was able to fill in with whatever I could. And that\u2019s how I left the house.<\/p>\n<p>And my whole foundation, my whole world came crashing down. Long story short, he left the country because there was really nowhere else for him to go. Nobody trusted him anymore. He was borrowing money left and right. Nobody believed him anymore. And he left me with the two babies.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:26:53] I\u2019m sorry you had to go through that. And I assume you\u2019ve never seen him again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:27:01] I did. I did. He came back, and we tried to co-parent, but at the end of the day, I couldn\u2019t trust him. You said you\u2019re sorry that I went through that. In a way, I\u2019m not sorry I went through that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:27:15] Why?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:27:16] Because I learned from it. That period with me divorcing him was a period where I started getting help, therapy, reflecting on myself, working out, losing weight, being surrounded by positive-minded people. And I wouldn\u2019t be here with David today. So I\u2019m not sorry I went through that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:27:42] I\u2019m sure you\u2019ve gone through a lot of reflection on what happened. What do you take away from everything that happened?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:27:51] Maybe it\u2019s cheesy to say, but there\u2019s always a rainbow after a storm. And just like David, he\u2019s hit rock bottom. If you have the right mindset, and I truly believe if you really want something, you can go after it. You just got to do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:28:10] Wow. Do you find that your stories, David and Halima, have brought you together? The fact that you\u2019ve both gone through some really difficult things? Okay. Seeing nods from both of you. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:28:24] So basically, because I was going through a divorce for a whole year, during that time, I was reflecting on what I wanted in a partner. And I created this mental checklist of what I wanted. And I met her, and she literally checked off everything. I can\u2019t think of anything she didn\u2019t check off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:28:57] I just want to describe Halima\u2019s smile right now for everyone who\u2019s not watching on YouTube. But she\u2019s got this very radiant smile. Halima, what do you think?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:29:06] I\u2019m just filled with joy.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:29:18] These stories help me understand David and Halima a lot better, and I love that they\u2019ve been able to overcome so much. But I also asked a subtle question at the end. Did you catch it? I asked, do you find that your stories have brought you together? And both of them said yes. What I want to know with that question is if they define themselves by their struggles.<\/p>\n<p>I believe in honoring our past and acknowledging whatever struggles that we have gone through or are going through. But I also think that we are more than simply our struggles. And in many cases, when couples define themselves by their struggles alone, they can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.<\/p>\n<p>We struggled through that. It was us against the world, and now we\u2019re going to make more decisions to recreate that struggle because that\u2019s what brought us together. Struggling is love. I don\u2019t know if that\u2019s the case here, but my antenna is up.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>David, you said you feel rich. What do you mean by that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:30:26] It\u2019s like looking at how much we make annually. It\u2019s like I made this amount once before, and I feel like I\u2019m finally back at it again.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:30:43] Okay. But if you make that much, if you\u2019re rich, why are we talking?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:30:49] David can be compulsive sometimes. we bought this house too. So that\u2019s another thing to add on the list. We just bought a house as well.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:03] That can never be gambling because house prices only go up. That\u2019s what I was told in America.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:09] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:09] Because they always go up, always, without exception, therefore, it doesn\u2019t even matter what the price is, because they\u2019re always going up. So it actually doesn\u2019t matter what the price is. You agree?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:24] I agree because that\u2019s why we bought this house. That\u2019s exactly why we got married. We wanted to live together. We were living separately in two different states, and we\u2019re like, all right, let\u2019s do this. Let\u2019s buy a house.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:37] Hold on now. Now you got me interested.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:40] Sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:41] I was planning to just roll right on by that. I\u2019ve talked about houses enough, but you stopped me. Now I\u2019m interested. So you two are living in different states. Where do you live now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:49] In New Jersey.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:31:50] All right, so you said, we got to get back to Jersey. I\u2019m itching to box some little punk kids on the street. Back to Jersey we go. All right. So then the next thing you said was, let\u2019s buy a house. Talk to me about that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:32:06] Buying a house has been instilled in me. My childhood was very different than David\u2019s. I lived a very sheltered life. My parents immigrated here in the mid \u201980s. And they tried to shelter us and keep us, I guess, in the culture and following with all their friends and family that were here. Growing up, it\u2019s always like, you have to grow up. You have to get married. Before you have kids, buy a house. It\u2019s the American dream. That\u2019s why my parents came here, for the American dream. So even though\u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:32:50] Wait, what else is in the American dream? I want to know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:32:54] Going to school, having an education. That was really big growing up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:32:58] That\u2019s good. What else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:01] Having the house, the cars, the children, the white picket fence.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:06] And then?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:08] And then you tell me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:10] They never really tell you what happens after that, do they? They say, get an education, which is a nice thing for a lot of people. Get the house, the white picket fence, the 2.5 kids, the car or cars, and then it just fades off. I go, well, okay, you\u2019re 30, or 35, or even 40. What else? You got a lot of time to live. They don\u2019t tell you anything about that. How come?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:37] Maybe because they don\u2019t know either.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:39] Maybe they didn\u2019t know at all, and maybe they were just telling you what they did. And everybody thinks that the decisions they made are the same one kids should make. But do you think the same decisions your parents made are going to be the same right decisions for your kids?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:54] No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:33:55] Life\u2019s different. I think what parents are saying when they talk about a house is security, safety. If everything goes bad, at least have something. And that could take the form of a house. Absolutely. Especially if you have a family, absolutely. It can also take the form of what? What are other ways to have safety and security?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:34:25] Investments.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:34:33] So many of us are following money stories that someone else wrote for us, and they didn\u2019t even finish it. If your rich life is traveling around for two months a year, or building a ranch, or going child-free, whatever it is, I want you to define it and design it. And I\u2019ll show you how. But please, don\u2019t just follow the idea that someone else created that you\u2019ve got to buy a house in the suburbs with a white picket fence, and that is the only way to measure a successful life. It\u2019s not.<\/p>\n<p>By the way, I\u2019m trying something new with YouTube in 2024. I\u2019m drilling down into topics like this. So you can find a new video where I did a detailed deep dive covering renting versus buying on my YouTube channel right now.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>How much did the house cost?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:36:31] It was 440.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:36:34] 440. Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:36:36] Yeah, and it\u2019s a fixer upper.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:36:40] In terms of us moving in this summer into this fixer upper, we went into a lot of arguments back and forth for months.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:36:49] About?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:36:50] About the house, and the functionality of it, and how quickly we moved into the house. With him, his timeline, I felt, wasn\u2019t realistic.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:01] Okay. So you\u2019re renovating it, things like that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:04] Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:06] How much did you budget?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:11] I think we initially thought 30 grand for renovating.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:16] That\u2019s exactly what I thought you would have said. And how much has it been so far? Tell me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:22] I think we\u2019re at about 40 or maybe 50.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:27] So let\u2019s just say 60. That is double. And how long is this going to continue going on for ballpark?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:35] Hopefully not past the winter.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:39] It\u2019s not even winter yet. That\u2019s a long time. That\u2019s four or five more months. Have you not yet started?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:46] It\u2019s okay. I feel like that\u2019s unrealistic because right now we\u2019re working on the basement. But there\u2019s so many other projects that also need to get done.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:54] Why do you need to do the basement right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:37:58] The house is small. It\u2019s a small house. Have you heard of the Lovesac, the couches, the Lovesac?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:06] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:07] Okay. So he just wants the Lovesac. And right now, our living room doesn\u2019t fit the Lovesac. We actually have a sectional. That sectional is too big for our living room. So the idea was to fix the basement, put the sectional downstairs in the basement, make the basement like an everyday room, and then buy the Lovesac that will fit the dimensions of the living room, and everybody\u2019s happy. Well, David\u2019s happy.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:34] So how much did this couch cost?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:39] So I bought that a while ago. I want to say maybe two grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:46] All right. Two grand. And this Lovesac that you want to put there, how much is that going to cost?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:52] Go ahead, tell him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:52] Maybe about 10 grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:56] $10,000?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:38:59] Maybe. Maybe less.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:39:02] No, because he wants to get the speakers in it and the storage space underneath. And I don\u2019t know what other accessories that come with it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:39:11] Well, hey, look, maybe when we look at your numbers, it will be obvious. If I wanted to buy a 10,000-dollar Lovesac, whatever that is, then I could afford it. We\u2019ll see.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>They definitely cannot afford a 10,000-dollar Lovesac. I see this theme of being unrealistic with money coming up over and over again. David chase\u2019s ways to get rich quick. He confuses wants with needs, and he essentially buys things without understanding how they affect his overall picture. Halima ignores money altogether.<\/p>\n<p>We\u2019re about to open up their conscious spending plan to find out if they can actually afford it. If you want to follow along, you can download your own conscious spending plan for free at iwt.com\/csp. Let\u2019s take a look at the numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>Assets, 524,000. All right. What\u2019s next?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:40:43] Investments, 11,249.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:40:49] Okay. Next.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:40:51] Savings, 62,752.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:40:56] And debt?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:02] $517,045.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:02] What\u2019s your total net worth?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:04] 80,956.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:07] How do you both feel about that number?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:12] More than I\u2019ve ever had before.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:15] Okay. Which means it feels like what?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:19] I\u2019m rich.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:19] Okay. Halima.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:22] Yes, it\u2019s a good number. Would I like it to be more? Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:29] How much more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:33] Six digits at least.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:37] Well, it\u2019s 81,000. You want 19,000 more? Look, you\u2019re holding your breath. Have you noticed that? You see that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:47] Honestly, I\u2019m not sure what I want. If I\u2019m completely honest, I\u2019m not sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:54] Do you think you\u2019re going to magically change the way you feel about money when you have 19,000 more dollars?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:41:59] No, I don\u2019t think so. Not at all.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:01] Good. All right, let\u2019s look at the income. Halima, I\u2019d like for you to read. What\u2019s your combined gross monthly income?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:12] $16,044. All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:15] Do you know how much the two of you make? This number. Say that out loud, Halima.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:25] $192,528.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:29] Did you know that you made that much as a household?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:33] I do now.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:35] Is that a little or a lot?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:38] That\u2019s a good number.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:40] Thank you for saying that. Nearly $200,000. The two of you are in your 30s. That\u2019s a good number. All right. David, you agree?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:52] It\u2019s okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:54] Yes or no?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:56] Yes, it is.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:42:57] All right. It\u2019s okay, though. It\u2019s not acceptable to you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:04] Her and I have this thing going on back and forth as to who\u2019s going to make more money, because, as you can see, her and I make almost the same amount.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:12] Yeah. So what? You got a little race going on, little competition?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:17] Yeah, we\u2019re saying\u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:19] David\u2019s like, yeah. And then Halima is shaking her head like, mm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:22] No, I think it\u2019s more on him. He calls me the sugar mom all the time because I\u2019m making more than him.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:34] I have a question for you, David. I\u2019m married as well. Do you think that my wife and I compete over who makes more money?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:44] No.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:46] Why? Not just because I\u2019ve had a business for a long time. Let\u2019s say we were almost identical in income, like the two of you are. I still wouldn\u2019t. Why?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:57] Because you\u2019re a team.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:43:59] Yeah, yeah. We might compete with our rich life goals. We might compete with the outside world. We might compete with the credit card companies if we have credit card debt. But why would I want to compete with my teammate?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:44:17] So you can push each other to improve.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:44:20] You can definitely push each other. You can set ambitious goals. You can be specific about, oh my gosh, let\u2019s set a milestone. If we hit this number or when we achieve that number, then let\u2019s do X. That is very motivating. And you can congratulate your partner. Oh my God, you did such a great job. I love you. I feel totally confident with you. Those are the ways that you can be a team. But when you think about competing, especially in a zero-sum game, somebody wins, and what\u2019s the other side of that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:44:55] Loser.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:44:56] Yeah. I don\u2019t really want to make my partner feel like a loser. And I don\u2019t want to feel like a loser with my partner.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:05] Okay. Part of me does feel like I should make more money than her because it\u2019s a cultural thing for both of us. I grew up Hispanic. My wife is Turkish background. So in both cultures, usually it\u2019s the man that makes more money. So I don\u2019t know\u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:34] Finish the sentence for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:35] Uh-huh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:36] So what\u2019s the point of that? Do you need to make more money?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:42] Of course.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:43] Oh. Of course?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:45] I\u2019d like for it to be more than seven figures. Maybe eight figures.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:51] Come on.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:45:53] Yeah. It\u2019s unrealistic.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:46:02] I don\u2019t know if you caught me there saying, come on. Come on, David. You earn about $100,000, you\u2019re in debt, and you\u2019re talking about earning eight figures a year? That is $10 million per year. What I want you to notice is that each of these examples, MLMs, Lovesac, wanting to earn eight figures, are all fruits of the same tree. And I could try to tackle one of them one by one, but it\u2019s really like playing whack a mole.<\/p>\n<p>The real issue is his unrealistic relationship with money as a believer. This is why I\u2019m encouraging him and a lot of my guests to see a therapist. I want to remove the stigmatism. There\u2019s nothing that has to be wrong with you to see a therapist, but you can improve some part of you. In David\u2019s case, he can understand why he has this unrealistic relationship with money that is manifesting in so many different ways, and they can start to actually become a team.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:47:54] Let\u2019s move along to your fixed costs. What\u2019s this number here you see, David? Your fixed cost.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:03] 72%.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:05] Yeah. All right. What number technically should that be in my benchmark.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:09] 50 to 60.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:10] So 72 is good or bad?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:13] Bad.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:14] It\u2019s over the number. Your savings are at 21%. Let\u2019s see where that\u2019s going. What is this? Look at that\u2013 hold on. Sorry. I\u2019m still stuck on this. I forget some people are listening. We got vacations at 500 a month, long-term emergency fund at 500 a month. And then I\u2019ve never seen a line item called outings and bullshit. That\u2019s $1,462 per month. Can somebody explain this to me?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:45] She should explain it because that was her.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:47] Halima, break it down for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:48] It\u2019s just the things that we don\u2019t really know where to categorize. It can fall under multiple categories.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:48:56] I\u2019ll tell you right now here. You\u2019re talking to the inventor of the CSP. Ask the question.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:03] Well, the outings and the bullshit?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:05] What\u2019s outings? What is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:10] Do you want me to take over?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:11] No, I want Halima.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:13] Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:14] David, do you see what just happened there? You want a teammate, right?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:19] Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:19] So you got to let her speak up, even if it means that sometimes she\u2019s not certain, etc. Halima\u2019s already said, look, I\u2019m not sure about money. I don\u2019t feel as certain. So when she\u2019s actively in the middle of something, we got to let her play it out. Go ahead, Halima.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:36] Honestly, I said the bullshit part because to me I didn\u2019t understand it. So I was like, all right, let\u2019s just put bullshit because I didn\u2019t know where else to put those things. Because I didn\u2019t understand it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:49:52] This is more than just some text that Halima wrote in the CSP. This is not taking the process seriously. On this podcast, I try to be deeply respectful of different experiences that people have had along their money journeys, and my team and I spend literally hundreds of hours finding diverse couples from all around the world. I\u2019m even sympathetic to people in tons of credit card debt, but I have no sympathy for people treating my process as a joke.<\/p>\n<p>And deep down, that is what\u2019s happening here. Halima didn\u2019t understand it, so she reverted to her usual behavior, head in the sand. Only this time, because she couldn\u2019t hide from the black and white numbers that she knew we would all be reviewing, she wrote a sarcastic label. She threw everything in one category, and she essentially said, Ramit can figure this out for us. Now, I can help people do amazing things, but only if they want to do the work. Now listen as we continue our conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>What\u2019s a weekend getaway? What\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:50:56] A weekend getaway is somewhere local we go.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:00] Stay overnight?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:02] Yeah, sometimes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:03] Is this like a hotel? Motel? What are we talking about?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:05] Yeah, it\u2019s part of our timeshare.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:10] What? You have a timeshare?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:15] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:15] Which company is this part of?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:19] Hilton.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:20] Hilton. So great. Wow. Who bought the timeshare?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:24] David.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:26] Wow. David. I know this had to have happened at least five years ago because that\u2019s when you ended your get-rich-quick stuff. So what year did you buy this timeshare, David?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:36] This year.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:37] This fucking year. Why did you do it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:42] Can I chime in?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:43] No, I want to hear David.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:45] Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:51:48] I was running through the numbers. I told the sales guy that he needs to give me a minute, and I was literally sitting there by myself for half an hour running through the numbers.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:06] How did you end up in this room?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:09] We went to Hawaii.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:13] And you sit in the presentation. And what goes through your mind as you see the presentation?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:20] I\u2019m not going to do this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:21] Really?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:23] Yeah, the whole time is just like, all right, wasting my time here. And then he showed me the numbers, and I was like, no, no, no. And then finally, he showed me a number that I was just like, wait a minute.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:41] Which number was it? Tell us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:44] It was 10 grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:46] But what\u2019s the number like what? Ten grand gets you this thing? Why did that number convince you?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:52:51] Because he said it\u2019s basically to have that\u2013 so they kept correcting me, saying it\u2019s not a timeshare.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:01] It\u2019s a fucking timeshare.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:02] Yeah, that\u2019s what I kept saying. It\u2019s a timeshare anyway.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:05] It\u2019s a vacation club. Fuck you.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:07] Yeah. Exactly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:08] All right.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:09] So then when he showed me that it was 10 years for 10 grand, I was like that\u2019s $1,000 a year.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:19] Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:20] So then I was like, all right, well, I need to see the terms and everything. And of course, it said variable, but then I said, I\u2019m not signing this unless you change it to fixed.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:32] Uh-huh.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:33] And they changed it to fixed. So it\u2019s not supposed to go up.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:36] All right. You really got him. You feel good?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:38] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:40] Okay. So what do you get for $10,000? Is that the total amount that you\u2019re going to pay over 10 years, 10,000?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:47] Plus, it\u2019s going to be another 2,000 every two years. So basically, it\u2019s 20 grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:53:58] Oh. So what do you get for 20 grand?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:04] Just that one trip alone was five grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:07] No, that\u2019s not my question. What do you get for 20 grand?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:14] The ability to go to a lot of these places and not have to spend money on where we\u2019re staying.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:20] How long can you stay every year?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:24] It depends on the points, but we can do multiple trips. We could do two to three trips a year for one week long each trip.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:35] Let\u2019s say you want to go to Bora Bora. Maybe you can make the points work, or it\u2019s some Hilton property in Italy or whatever. What would it cost to go there, fly there, eat there, all that stuff.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:54:52] Bora Bora, that\u2019s probably going to be a good six grand, seven grand. Maybe more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:55:00] Hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:55:01] But that\u2019s without the Hilton. With the Hilton, it\u2019ll probably cut it down by three grand, I would say.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:55:10] Okay. Do you think this was a good decision or a bad decision?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:55:15] I think it was a good decision just because we\u2019re not going to be paying for the stay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:55:20] How come everyone who comes on this podcast, of which you\u2019ve listened to every episode, I\u2019m told, with a timeshare gets absolutely fucking reamed by me? But in your situation, this was a good decision. Explain that to me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:55:39] Doing the math, like I said, that one trip to Hawaii cost us five grand. If we take out the flights, it was close to three grand, let\u2019s say. And then basically, if we go to all these other places, we\u2019re going to cut the costs on the stays.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:08] So it\u2019s a no brainer.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:11] Basically, yeah. I also want to point out that when I told my wife that we were going to be on this show, she was like, I can\u2019t wait to tell him about the timeshare.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:23] I know. Halima\u2019s had the biggest smile for the last five minutes. She\u2019s just sitting over there, and she\u2019s shaking her head. It\u2019s actually hilarious. Come watch this on YouTube. It\u2019s so good. Halima, you want to add anything to David\u2019s \u201cgood decision\u201d?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:36] Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:37] Tell us.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:39] So I remember I was sitting by the pool with the kids. He gives me a call. He\u2019s like, oh, they\u2019re giving a really good deal, babe. What do you think? I was getting frustrated. I was getting angry, but at the same time, I was like, you know what, if he thinks it\u2019s a good idea and it makes sense with the numbers, I was like, all right. At the end of the day, sure, let\u2019s do it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:56:59] What the fuck?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:57:00] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:57:00] Hold on, hold on. I\u2019m sorry, I have to cut in here. First of all, you both agreed not to do it. You know that timeshares are not a good idea. And then you go, let me turn over and delegate\u2013 notice that word keeps coming up today\u2013 that decision to my husband, who has been involved in get-rich-quick schemes for, in his own words, 20 years.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:57:27] Honestly, I didn\u2019t understand it, and I didn\u2019t ask too many questions because I didn\u2019t understand it. I did know that timeshares are bad, and it\u2019s taking money out of it, and it\u2019s not worth it. But I trusted him, and I was just like, all right, if you think it\u2019s a good idea, I guess let\u2019s go for it.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:57:45] You trusted him on the renovation. You trusted him on the timeshare. Didn\u2019t you yourself say that you want to trust, but you also want to understand something?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:57:56] Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:57:57] All right. And then David, you knew Halima didn\u2019t understand this. You knew that you had agreed to not purchase a timeshare. And yet you called her and said, oh, the deal\u2019s actually pretty good. What did you expect her to say?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:58:15] I explained the numbers to her, and I thought she was understanding when I was explaining the numbers to her.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:58:24] No, but you explained the numbers to me, and I think they\u2019re total bullshit. I think you genuinely believe this is a good deal, and it\u2019s totally not. 100%, it\u2019s not a good deal, and you genuinely believe because of what those sales guys put in your head, just like what those Amway guys put in your head 10, 15, 20 years ago. You\u2019ve bought into the next MLM-style get-rich-quick thing. Do you not see the pattern here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:58:52] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:58:52] This decision will cost you how much over the course of the next 10 years?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:58:57] 20 grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:58:59] Way more than that. How many times are you planning to take a trip? You told me you can go two to three times per year. You\u2019re planning to scrape it all for what it\u2019s worth, make sure you take as many as possible. Three a year. Should we just say three a year?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:59:12] Okay. Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:59:13] All right. So three trips times 10 years. How many trips is that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:59:18] 30.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:59:20] 30 trips. How much is it going to cost on average for airfare, taxes, food, the occasional lost luggage, the new clothes you got to purchase the souvenirs? How much is it going to cost on average per trip?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:59:37] Probably an additional three grand.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[00:59:42] Three grand each trip. All right. So 30 trips times 3,000. 90,000 plus the initial 20,000. That\u2019s $110,000 on vacations.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:00:03] Okay, but we\u2019re not paying for the stays. So either way\u2013<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:00:09] I didn\u2019t include those in.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:00:12] Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:00:13] Here\u2019s the fact. You probably wouldn\u2019t spend $110,000 on vacations in the next 10 years if we had gone through your CSP and looked at it. Aren\u2019t you the one who called me and said, I want to retire early?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:00:29] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:00:30] Every dollar you spend on this is $1 not going towards your retirement, which right now, you have $11,000 in your investments. I don\u2019t understand how this seems like a good idea to you.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>Companies are very good at finding the one single argument that resonates with people who don\u2019t really understand the intricacies of a sophisticated financial purchase. Let me give you some examples. With timeshares, the argument is you\u2019re saving on the amount you would have spent on vacations. With whole-life insurance, you get cash back.<\/p>\n<p>With get-rich-quick scammers on TikTok, it\u2019s about passive income. You make money while you sleep, and you never have a boss. And with financial advisers who charge 1% AUM or more, just kidding. They don\u2019t actually have an argument because they never want to actually talk about their fees.<\/p>\n<p>You can see that nothing I\u2019m saying is really reaching David. He still thinks this timeshare was a good idea. And this is why it is so difficult to reach people after they have been surrounded in these worlds for so long, inculcated with these messages that they have absorbed.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>So I\u2019m going to call this miscellaneous. And why I\u2019m putting it in fixed costs is that people typically have just a certain amount of money they spend every single month. I\u2019m going to move this here. So 1,462 means now you\u2019re currently spending 85% on fixed costs.<\/p>\n<p>That\u2019s 85% of your net pay is going to fixed costs. I\u2019m going to go ahead and drop the number here, which means I removed it from savings, which means you\u2019re now saving 8% of your net pay. And let\u2019s just finish up the CSP, and then we can go back up.<\/p>\n<p>Let\u2019s look at your guilt-free spending. I\u2019m curious about that. Okay, I don\u2019t believe this. So it says that you have less than 100\u2013 you\u2019re basically spending more than you make every month, which of course, you and I know that you\u2019re spending on outings and things like that.<\/p>\n<p>So probably part of this stuff, like the getaways\u2013 let\u2019s even just say $1,000\u2013 let\u2019s move it from your fixed costs down here. The numbers just don\u2019t work. How do we do this? Let\u2019s say six, 730. Basically, you\u2019re spending more than you make every single month. Did you know that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:03:49] That was my biggest concern. When we would sit down with these talks, I felt like the numbers\u2013 again, numbers, to me, it\u2019s confusing to even try to understand it. I have this feeling inside that I feel like we\u2019re spending more than we\u2019re making.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:04:14] You are. I guarantee that.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:04:17] And my gut knew that. Something inside me was telling me, Halima, something\u2019s not making sense.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:04:29] David, do you see that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:04:38] Every month that has been going by since we\u2019ve combined our income, our checking account has just been going up and up steadily.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:04:49] This is why it\u2019s confusing. People who are just beginning with money, their barometer of success is, how much money is in our checking account? That\u2019s it. And the fact is, you have a pretty high income, so it works for a while. And what that probably means is you\u2019re not actually actively and automatically contributing to your savings.<\/p>\n<p>You\u2019re not automatically contributing to your Roth IRA. You\u2019re spending a bunch of money on credit cards, which I want to get to. And so from all looks, the checking account looks great. You\u2019re getting paid 15,16 grand a month. Fantastic. But every month that goes by, you\u2019re compromising on your savings. You\u2019re compromising on your investments. You\u2019re adding to your debt.<\/p>\n<p>If we were to actually look at it all, which we are right now, you would realize, oh my God, we\u2019re actually in the red every single month. And you want me to show you how I know that? Because let\u2019s look at your credit card debt. You were very helpful in breaking out all your credit card debt. Just to keep in mind, you have $517,000 of debt. Now, let\u2019s be fair. $447,000 of that is your home loan at about a 5% interest rate. Correct?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:05] Yes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:06] All right. Let\u2019s take a look at your credit card bills. You got over $10,000 on your Amex. You have Synchrony ADT. What is that? Is that a credit card?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:21] It\u2019s a credit card for the home security system.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:26] Why do you have a credit card for it?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:29] Because a lot of the equipment was pricey. We could just pay it off.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:38] Why not?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:44] Why not what? Pay it off?<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:45] Why haven\u2019t you paid it off? Yeah, 3,000 bucks.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:51] Yeah. I\u2019m not sure.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:06:54] Then you have another kitchen credit card, $4,944. Then you have a Best Buy appliance for 4,424, and you also have two car loans, one for $33,000, and one for $13,804. Do you realize you\u2019re spending more than you make every single month and that\u2019s where it\u2019s going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:23] Yeah.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:26] Tell me what\u2019s going through your mind right now. David, you\u2019re the one who\u2019s been managing the money, and moving it around, and sharing it with Halima. What\u2019s going through your mind right now?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:35] Failing.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:38] Mm-hmm. Tell me more.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:42] We shouldn\u2019t be in this type of position. And I feel like I\u2019ve gotten us into this.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:53] What is this type of position? Describe it for me.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:56] Being in the red.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:58] Okay.<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:07:58] Spending more than we make.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:01] And? Quantitatively, you are spending more than you make. I agree. You\u2019re spending more than you make, qualitatively. How are you spending that money? Where is it going?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:17] Debt, mostly.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:18] Mm-hmm. And what is the debt for?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:24] Just credit cards, other stuff that we purchased, cars, the house.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:35] What else?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:37] Security system.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:39] What else? What\u2019s that kitchen thing? All the renovations. You can\u2019t even remember all this stuff. Then, where\u2019s the Hilton expenses on here? Where\u2019s that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:55] On the Amex.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:08:57] 10,000 bucks this month. So it\u2019s hidden. You\u2019ve created your own nightmare. What\u2019s shocking to me is that when we started this call, you said, I feel rich. He said, looking at the numbers, I feel rich. We have $70,000 in credit card debt and car loans. Not to mention the mortgage. How do you reconcile that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:09:34] I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:09:39] I need you to dig deep because you\u2019ve been making decisions, renovations, timeshare, putting things on certain credit cards. There\u2019s nobody else here who has the answer except you. So tell me your thought process. How did you end up here?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:10:05] Wanted to create a life where I can provide for my wife and kids and not be able to say no. I want to give them a better life than what I\u2019ve had.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:10:28] How do you do that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:10:43] Improving our finances.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:10:45] How are you currently doing that?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:10:49] Not saying no. Just giving and giving and giving what I don\u2019t have.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:10:56] Mm-hmm. What else? What about your partner here, Halima?<\/p>\n<p><strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:11:11] Both of us went through a lot, and I understand she went through a lot. And I want to show her that life is better now because we have each other. But financially, we\u2019re pretty much back in the hole.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p><strong>Ramit Sethi:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>[01:11:39] David and Halima are in $500,000 of debt. They\u2019re currently renovating their house with no end in sight. They\u2019re talking about buying a $10,000 couch and traveling three times a year using their timeshare. Until this very moment, I\u2019m not sure David realized the severity of their situation. Unfortunately, they need a true wake up call to see what their future really looks like. And in part 2 of this conversation next week, I will tackle it with them.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>David\u2019s 33 and Halima\u2019s 37. They\u2019re been married for one year, a second union for both. The deep emotional (and financial) scars from those past relationships tint how they see the world today, limiting their ability to cooperate and leading to ill conceived get-rich-quick schemes and mounting debt. This episode is brought to you by: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118934","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118934","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118934"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118934\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118934"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118934"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}