{"id":118936,"date":"2024-01-02T13:45:04","date_gmt":"2024-01-02T17:45:04","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118936"},"modified":"2026-02-23T15:39:14","modified_gmt":"2026-02-23T19:39:14","slug":"137-david-halima","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/137-david-halima\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 137. \u201cMLMs, crypto, real estate\u2014I can\u2019t stop falling for get-rich-quick schemes\u201d (Part 2)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cCrypto, MLMs\u2014I keep falling for get-rich-quick schemes\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/JcOo0x4cJTo\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/4BQEupsaJcaVkgMvXp6TEq?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>David, 33, and Halima, 37, return to follow-up on last week\u2019s episode, where we learned about their debt, painful backgrounds, unrealistic expectations, and patterns of negative behavior with money. Today, Ramit brings them back down to earth, dissects their numbers, and sets the stakes.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>AG1 | Take ownership of your health with AG1. Get one year\u2019s supply of Vitamin D3 K2 and five free AG1 travel packs with your first purchase at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/drinkag1.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/drinkAG1.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2013 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Netsuite | Get visibility to everything in your business one one place. Sign up and defer payments, with no interest, for six months at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/netsuite\">https:\/\/iwt.com\/netsuite<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0for 20% off.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Links mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/136-david-halima\/\">\u201cWe have $500k in debt. Can I retire early?\u201d (Part 1)<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you keep doing this, you\u2019ll just be stuck here forever. We\u2019re not hoping for the next big thing to come around the corner. There\u2019s no secret money coming in. This is it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We see the fire.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What happens if you change nothing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:10]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I will be working till I die. And what\u2019s worse is she\u2019ll be working till she dies as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You said, looking at the numbers, I feel rich. How do you reconcile that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:22]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. Wanted to create a life where I can provide for my wife and kids, give them a better life than what I\u2019ve had. We shouldn\u2019t be in this type of position. I\u2019m failing. And I feel like I\u2019ve gotten us into this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:40]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0And I do want to live bigger. It\u2019s hard to put into words, but at the end of every week, I\u2019m just like, is this it?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Welcome to part two with David and Halima. They initially approached me wondering if he could retire early, and Halima felt disconnected about money.\u00a0\u00a0At the end of our conversation last week, we discovered they\u2019re in $500,000 of debt. They\u2019re in the middle of a renovation that has no end in sight. They have credit card debt. They have a timeshare. And they finally started to realize what a situation they are in. Today, we are dropping right back into the heat of that conversation,\u00a0and I want to urge you to stick with us because this conversation takes a lot of turns.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:26]\u00a0You know what? You don\u2019t need some dude coming on a video and telling you that you\u2019re spending too much on Topo Chico.\u00a0Get a life.\u00a0What I\u2019m going to give you instead this Saturday is actual numbers from three real people, their actual spending, how much they make, their debt, and where their money is going. And then I\u2019m going to tell you what I would do if I were them.\u00a0You and I don\u2019t need more tips. What we need is to see real numbers, and you can get it this Saturday, January 6th, at iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:58]\u00a0Let\u2019s get to David and Halima part two.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You two spend a lot of money on fun stuff. The way that you talk about spending is a couple that makes $350,000. Three vacations a year, multiple weekend trips, a new car, etc., renovations. I know you make a lot of money, but you don\u2019t make that much money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:23]\u00a0So I\u2019m confused because you could see these numbers. These are very large numbers. And yet the conversation for most of our conversation today was, how do I retire early? And I compete against my partner because I want to make $2,000 more. Do we not ignore the fire happening in the relationship? Halima, what did you think when you put these numbers out here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:52]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, it seemed like a lot of debt. But when I saw that percentage in the 70s, I honestly thought it was going to be higher for the fixed costs. We\u2019re not where we need to be, but we\u2019re not at a 100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re probably at 85 to 90%. If you were to see another couple in exactly the situation, how would you describe the characteristic that you see? How would you assess what\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is a helpful little trick. Sometimes the reality of a couple\u2019s situation is too close, so I ask, what would you do for someone else in a similar situation? And I found that couples are extremely savvy. Their responses are usually 100% correct.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:41]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Just spending too much money on fixed costs.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:45]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0They need to get serious about the debt, tackle that as fast as possible<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree. Why did this couple get into this situation in the first place?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:58]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Being compulsive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you compulsive?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:02]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Yes, she said in the beginning of the call.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Are you getting help for that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We both see a therapist, so probably need to give her a call.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think so. I think that would be a really good idea. And I think that some of the clues that you might be able to speak to your therapist about would be the timeshare, and the renovations. Halima, how would you assess a couple, if you were speaking to them, they were in the same situation? What would you say is going on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:30]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0That they\u2019re not managing their finance as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:34]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re not realizing what they\u2019re doing, that they\u2019re spending more than they\u2019re making.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. They did not even know that. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:41]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0They need help.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are they communicating well?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:44]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, what\u2019s the dynamic between the couples?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:49]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0He is the one that\u2019s handling most of it, and she is going with the flow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, she delegates it, and she shuts down. And she just figures it\u2019ll be okay. But the irony is that you were in that situation before. So you worked on yourself. You told me you went through a lot of changes in self-development. This one has proven really difficult for you, right? Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:16]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Because it doesn\u2019t make sense to me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s fair enough. What would it take for it to make sense? When you started driving, it probably didn\u2019t make sense to you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:27]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0You need to take more control, not be so passive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Usually, when I speak to somebody in this situation, I have to spend a lot more time on helping them understand the stakes of what\u2019s happening here. But the thing is, Halima, I don\u2019t think I need to do that with you because you went through something that was worse, financially speaking, than almost anyone I\u2019ve spoken to on this show. Secret foreclosed house, ex-husband who left abruptly. You\u2019ve been through it. What I want to know is what is stopping you from taking control now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:04]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I have David to rely on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And David represents what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:11]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0The man of the house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Which in your cultural background is supposed to do what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:18]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Support the family.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. Provide, take care of the family. Even though your previous man of the house did not do that, in fact, did the opposite, that cultural belief is so deep that you\u2019re just back on that train. And David, you play a part in this as well. David, what do you tell Halima when it comes to money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:38]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, we\u2019re fine. Things are looking good. One thing that I need to start working on, I need to get on top of the disability rating from the VA because I\u2019ve sustained injuries when I was in Iraq. But I know in the state of New Jersey, if you have a 100% disability rating, you don\u2019t pay property taxes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So I hope you take care of that, and I hope that you\u2019re able to get that. But David, that is just one more example of you looking for some secret around the corner. Do you see that you naturally are drawn towards some secret that\u2019s going to solve all the problems? Catalog it for me. What were they, starting from when you were a teenager?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:28]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Boxing, being a thief. I would steal bikes as well and resell them. The MLMs.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Timeshare.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:39]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Timeshare.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It goes on and on. We could spend another half an hour digging into all of them. Credit cards one upon the other. You told my colleague that you had an idea. You said, \u201cI want to take our car loan balance and transfer it to the balance transfer on our credit card. That will give us 0%, and then we can do that every year and not have to pay interest on our car loan.\u201d You remember that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:11]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re talking about this stuff as of a week ago. How is it that you\u2019ve listened to so much of my material, which is focused on long term, low cost, no gimmicks, and then everything you do with your money is centered around get rich quick and schemes and gimmicks?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:35]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. Step by step, I\u2019m doing stuff that I\u2019m reading in the book, but I guess that\u2019s something that\u2019s been ingrained in me.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I had to get honest here so David and Halima understood the stakes of what was going on. Until now, they had a vague feeling that things weren\u2019t right. But please remember that he came on this podcast to ask if he could retire early. At this point, they are losing money every single month. The primary reason that they don\u2019t feel the pain is that their credit card payments are temporarily giving them\u00a00% interest.\u00a0But the minute that that finishes, they will be financially decimated, and I think now their eyes are open. This is where the real work begins.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:32]\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:34]\u00a0Now back to David and Halima.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right now you have $11,000 in investments. That\u2019s not a lot, especially at your age and especially with your income of $200,000 a year. Your savings are $62,000. What\u2019s really interesting to me is that you have a kids savings account of $22,600. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:02]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll chime in with that. I went through that part of my life. I did have a savings account for both my children, and that was also taken from us. I had to file bankruptcy and move back in with my mom and start my life all over again. I vowed to create the savings account for the kids. And ever since then, I\u2019ve just been saving the two savings accounts for the kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Two, meaning they each have 11,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:42]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay isn\u2019t it fascinating that you were able to create such a specific mission and execute on it at a very high level when it came to your kids?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:51]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How come you didn\u2019t delegate that to somebody else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:56]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I only trusted myself with that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, then trust yourself for this money. I would take that $22,000, and I would use it immediately for the credit card debt. If you\u2019re able to get control of your finances and potentially grow your income, you can easily save that much down the road. But right now, this is in my opinion, a 9-1-1. These credit cards have got to go immediately. So right now you\u2019re paying $2,000 a month on your debt. Is that credit cards?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:31]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, that\u2019s just for the credit cards, and it\u2019s not the minimum balance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so you\u2019re significantly overpaying.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:38]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. Yeah, we were using that to pay our outings, our bills, and everything. We were using that because we were getting points on it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Please tell me this is a joke. Why do you care about points? How many people come on here with $50,000 of credit card debt, and they\u2019re talking about points? Why are you talking about points?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:03]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re using the points for stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:06]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0For the outings and\u00a0bullshit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:09]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Prepare for the outings and\u00a0bullshit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you realize what\u2019s actually going on here? Your house is on fire, and you\u2019re talking about accumulating points.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Remember on the last episode when I said that you have a very small chance of winning when you go up against multi-billion-dollar companies? This is the perfect example. Humans are drawn towards free points, like moths to a flame. Here we have a couple that is drowning financially, and they\u2019re sitting here talking about accumulating points that are worth one cent each.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:42]\u00a0Here\u2019s what I really want you to hear. This is not the first couple that has said the same thing, which means there are millions of couples out there in credit card debt, thinking that it is still a good idea to use credit cards, even though with interest, it will cost them two times more, three times more, even 10 times more for their purchases all because they earn a few points.\u00a0\u00a0If you have credit card debt, please stop chasing points.\u00a0They are not worth tens of thousands of dollars in debt just so you can get a 235-dollar free flight on JetBlue.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, how do you decide which card you\u2019re paying towards?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:20]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Whichever one is due for the 0% to be over. For example, that Quicksilver one, we paid it down because next month, all that interest is going to hit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:33]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s a 0% interest card. And yeah, the other ones are also 0% interest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All Right, here\u2019s the deal. Pay them off aggressively, but I just have to tell you something. Sometimes it\u2019s helpful to hear someone from the outside say something like this. I\u2019m going to tell you this. At $192,000 of income, you should not be playing games like this. No way. Leaving a balance of $64.23 because you don\u2019t have the money for it and then rolling over to another card and always having to stay one step ahead is not a way to live. It\u2019s not normal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:08]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0That one we are paying off.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think you\u2019re hearing my message. What did I just say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:14]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0To not play those games. To just pay it off.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m saying the entire game you\u2019re playing is the wrong game to be playing, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:24]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. Understood.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s probably time to write a new chapter for yourself. And you probably need to be really strict because when you deviate, you end up in a really bad place. If you keep doing this, you\u2019ll just be stuck here forever. That\u2019s the bottom line. Especially because you have two kids. That\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:47]\u00a0Second marriage. Both of you have gone through financial stress, huge financial stress, and you\u2019re making huge life-altering decisions again. We\u2019re not hoping for the next big thing to come around the corner. There\u2019s no secret money coming in. This is it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:06]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. David, how do you feel before I move on? You look a little down.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:12]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I am.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s going through your head?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:17]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0I feel like I\u2019m not going to be providing as much as I\u2019d like for my wife and kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are you not providing now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:38]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d like to provide more trips, more weekend getaways and stuff, but it\u2019s not realistic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And when you provided those things, what did you actually provide for them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:52]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Memories.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, true. You were providing that. What else were you providing? What else were you giving them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:01]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Something I didn\u2019t have.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is poignant. I\u2019ve seen this with many dads. They want to provide for their family. They want to give their kids everything they didn\u2019t have. But they don\u2019t realize that by giving them everything, they are not teaching their family how to say no. They\u2019re not teaching their kids how to say no. They are creating a huge problem that will only show up later.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:27]\u00a0Also, by the way, people who say, I want to give my kids everything I didn\u2019t have, are also acting a bit selfish. The idea is that they get to be the hero by saying yes to everything. Yeah, we can go on vacation. Yeah, I\u2019ll figure out how to deal with the credit cards. Yeah, Halima, it\u2019s\u00a0going to\u00a0be fine. David becomes the hero.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:47]\u00a0But that\u2019s not a real hero. A real hero sets boundaries. A real hero talks about money, makes it a regular part of a family\u2019s discussion. A real hero teaches their family how to make decisions and incorporates them into the decision-making process because they can\u2019t know everything, and they certainly cannot say yes to everything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:10]\u00a0Now, at this point in the process, it is really easy to get down, to feel depressed. David and Halima are facing the realization of what their actions have done and also realizing how hard it\u2019s going to be to get out of this. So I wanted to nip that in the bud, and I wanted to ask them, what would they get if they made all these changes?\u00a0What\u2019s the purpose of it all?<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:36]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It\u2019s for the security of the family, and that we\u2019re on the same page. And that when I feel like the numbers don\u2019t add up and I feel like we\u2019re spending more than we\u2019re making, I need you to stop telling me that we\u2019re okay, that everything\u2019s going to be fine, and for us to be realistic with the numbers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:00]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Be more conscious about being compulsive. Not be compulsive and call me out when I\u2019m being compulsive. We see the fire.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is it? Describe it for me. What happens if you change nothing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:21]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Debt\u2019s just going to keep accumulating, and I will be working till I die. And what\u2019s worse is she\u2019ll be working till she dies as well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Definitely true. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:34]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Kids are going to be going in the same path as us. And I definitely want them to be better off than we are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Halima, what lessons did you learn from your mom about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:46]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0We didn\u2019t really talk much about money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hmm. So who taught you about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:52]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I learned it myself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. And as you told me at the beginning of our conversation, money makes you feel what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:00]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Comfortable. I want to be comfortable with money, but it makes me nervous, and I don\u2019t understand it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You feel scared. You feel overwhelmed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:12]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you talk to your daughter about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:16]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Not really, no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you see any connection between the generations? What is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:23]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t talk about money. It\u2019s just there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s just there. You\u2019re going to be taken care of, and then we\u2019ll leave you to fend for yourself and figure it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:34]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Want that for your daughter?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:37]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What changes do you want to make?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:42]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0To create a better plan that we stick to, that we\u2019re realistic with. Like you said, we have to be disciplined with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You ever say no to them with their behavior?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:57]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve gotten better at that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh\u00a0shit, that\u2019s code for no. All right, what happens to kids who are raised never being told no? Any experience with that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve already had a conversation with our seven-year-old today.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay, today. And so what happens when kids are never told no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:14]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re very bratty.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct. And what happens when adults are never told no?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:22]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:24]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Assholes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:25]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0Assholes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:27]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Entitled.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Entitled. Maybe ignorant of how the real world works.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:33]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can provide in so many different ways beyond having to give them an entitled blank check. What do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:44]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Different way to think about it. It\u2019s really easy to say yes. You\u2019re the hero. Everyone goes, oh, he\u2019s got it. You need to be a different type of hero, and you too, Halima, the one where your kids look at you and say, wow, they really made a turnaround with their finances. I remember they used to be stressed, and then they sat down with us and they talked about what we were going to do, and they always had us excited. They didn\u2019t let us do everything, but they showed us how money works. Wouldn\u2019t that be an amazing story?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:20]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. And I do want to live bigger. It\u2019s hard to put into words, but at the end of every week, I\u2019m just like, is this it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:35]\u00a0Like, is this it in terms of the house and getting ready for the work week, and making sure there\u2019s groceries in the fridge, and making sure that we have our meals planned for the day. And I was like, I want more.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is this it? This is such a common phrase that I hear from people and something that is so real. It\u2019s like we go to work. We save our money. We go to the grocery store. We do all these things. And then we go, is this it? I\u2019m going to be doing this for the rest of my life? That\u2019s why I get so angry when people tell me that Target is their rich life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:19]\u00a0Because often they\u2019re not even asking that question, is this it? Can my rich life really be limited to four walls in a retail store where I buy random commodity products that I throw away a week from now? No, there has to be more. But you have to be the one to make the change because nobody accidentally lives a rich life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:40]\u00a0It\u2019s intentional, always. And what that means is you have to get honest about how you treat money. And you have to learn about money so that you can understand cause and effect. For example, how buying a 10,000-dollar sofa affects your dreams of an early retirement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:58]\u00a0We\u2019ll be right back after this.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:00]\u00a0Let\u2019s get back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what I really want for the two of you is a vision. Not a series of transactions. So I\u2019m going to put the numbers up on screen. I\u2019d like for you to tell me what you would like to change. Here\u2019s your fixed cost at 85%. Where do you want to begin?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:17]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Spend less on the miscellaneous Amazon.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How? Can\u2019t just say we\u2019re going to spend less. How are you going to change your habits? Why\u2019d it get so quiet in here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:33]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you get on Amazon, Halima?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:38]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Toys for the kids, gifts. I feel like when I\u2019m down, I usually just go on Amazon and buy a bunch of stuff because it makes me feel better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And do you know why you\u2019re down? Have you been able to note that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:53]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s like what I said before. Is this it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it\u2019s a Friday night or a Sunday evening. I bet if you were to track it, you could see some patterns. Well, Halima, I totally understand that. is this it? Okay, let me go get my dopamine rush. At least I\u2019ll order this. I know it will be here tomorrow. It\u2019s going to feel good. Give it to the kids. They\u2019re going to smile. Everybody hugs. And it buys you a couple of days of feeling good. Have you ever known that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:26]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How long has it been going on for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:28]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Since we bought the house.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because of the renovation? Think it traces back to that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:33]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0The renovation yeah, everything with the house<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So first off, thank you for being so honest. It\u2019s a great topic to bring up with your therapist. A great topic because life is always going to have some element of difficulty to it. We can\u2019t wish that it\u2019s always going to be easy. It\u2019s not. What instead we want to do is try to build the skills to handle it. So if you\u2019re feeling a certain way on a Sunday evening, a therapist will work with you on some skills on how to deal with that. As for the renovation, shall we talk about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:09]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:15]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I already told her that once we\u2019re done with the basement, no more renovations until we actually save up for the next project.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:23]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I agree with that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Because frankly, you can\u2019t afford renovations. Had you come to me before you started, I would\u2019ve said no way. You have no money. So wrap it up, and I would not spend any more money on it. The fact that you\u2019re even saying it\u2019s going to the end of the year still makes me nervous because that\u2019s several thousand more dollars that needs to be going towards credit cards. So what if I challenged you to just stop right now? Could you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:55]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, but I know I\u2019m going to get backlash from my family.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:02]\u00a0\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Halima, this is actually a really interesting moment. Is that the primary reason that you both plan to continue the renovation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:10]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>This really shows the power of culture. Your house is on fire. You\u2019re losing money every single month. You have tens of thousands of dollars of credit card debt, car loans, and then hundreds of thousands in mortgage debt, and you\u2019re planning to still continue spending thousands of dollars more that you do not have because you\u2019re afraid of a conversation with your family. Halima, when I say it like that, what do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:43]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>It\u2019s true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Okay. So what do you want to do about it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:46]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I need to put my foot down.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s amazing to me that we all fancy ourselves rational and logical with money. But when you get to the root of it, we almost always use simple emotions to make huge decisions. Here we have a renovation that\u2019s costed them literally tens of thousands of dollars more than they planned. But because they\u2019re afraid to have a single difficult conversation, they\u2019re planning to just sail on with it, keep going with the renovation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:16]\u00a0And here\u2019s the truth. If it\u2019s not the renovation, it\u2019s going to be something else. That is why this is a skill that they have to learn\u2013 the skill of setting boundaries and having a difficult conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Do you want to practice it right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:30]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, I can be her family, or David, you can be her family. Who wants to play the role?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:36]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I know exactly how her family responds.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s do it. All right, Halima, go ahead. And is this conversation going to be with your dad?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:44]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:45]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0So dad, I know you\u2019re here and you want to help out, but we\u2019re going to put a pause on fixing the basement.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:58]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:01]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Because we don\u2019t have the money right now, and we need to put that money into paying off our debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:07]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll pay for it, and you pay me back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:09]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:10]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Why not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:12]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m a grown adult, and it\u2019s enough that I\u2019m getting help from mommy and daddy all the time. I need to do this, and you need to trust me to let me do this. When I need your help, I will ask you, but right now we\u2019re putting a pause renovations.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:28]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Now with your mom.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on, hold on.\u00a0Fuck.\u00a0That was awesome. Damn. Round of applause. That was very impressive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:37]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Her dad is not the issue.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ll get to the mom in a second, but Halima, several things you did that were so cool. I just want to call them out. I don\u2019t want to take them for granted. I was impressed. You came out of the gate. Dad, this is what we\u2019re doing. And then you were very clear, no beating around the bush, very blunt. We don\u2019t have money. We need to put it towards our debt. And then when dad came back with an alternative, which was basically code for just take on more debt, the last thing you need is more debt, and you nailed it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:14]\u00a0And so I love, Halima, that you said, no. We have decided we are going to do this. Nobody can argue with we, as a married couple. You are stronger together than you are as individuals. That\u2019s the beauty of marriage. So, damn, I just have to say that was so good. Keep that energy up. Okay. And you can throw in the little, I love you, dad. That\u2019s okay. Fantastic work. All right. Now, mom, go ahead.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:47]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0So the next time you come over and you see that we haven\u2019t fixed anything in the house, I don\u2019t want to hear about why things haven\u2019t gotten done in the house. David and I have agreed that we\u2019re putting a pause with fixing the house because right now we want to put our energy and our finances to debt, and I need you to respect that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:12]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re still going to hear what I have to say. I don\u2019t like the way my grandchildren are living, or the way you\u2019re living. You need to improve that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:21]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0And when the time is right, we will improve that. But the condition of the house is fine. We have a roof over our head. We have running water. There\u2019s food on the table. We\u2019re fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:32]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think this is acceptable. You need to find a way to get this done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:40]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, no, no, no, no, no. Stop. I\u2019m stepping in. That was good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:45]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Her mom would\u00a0not stop. She would not stop.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I know she\u2019ll keep going. Okay. I got to give another round of applause to David. David, who knew you were such an actor?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:54]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s just stressing me out just thinking about her mom.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe it\u2019s time to create a concrete vision and slowly start to quiet all the other noise outside. Because unless your parents are going to write you a 517,000-dollar check, then you are not creating your own family unit with your own rich life values. They may say that you can\u2019t leave a basement like that. It\u2019s not fashionable. It\u2019s not good for the kids. You need more space and on and on and on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:30]\u00a0But as you aggressively pay your debt down, as you build your savings up, as you start to live your vision of a rich life, taking the kids to an afterschool tutor, taking a glamorous trip, maybe even splurging for your parents to come along, there will be a day where they\u2019ll say, how\u2019d you do that? Must be nice.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We spent a lot of time practicing here. And I taught them about the social psychology concept of inoculation, where you can intentionally make a plan to resist attempts at persuasion from people like your parents. And I encouraged them to speak to a therapist. I have a lot of confidence that they can have this conversation and do it very well.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>All right, back to the numbers. So we stopped all the renovations. You just saved about $3,000. Great, but that\u2019s scratching the surface. I need to get this number down to 60%. What do you want to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:29]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Taking that money that we have in that savings, the kids\u2019 joint, pay off the Amex card, especially since we need to do that soon. And actually, I feel like with that money, we can pay off all those credit cards.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:46]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Be specific. All means what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:50]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0So the Amex, maybe even the Bank of America car loan. I would want to see\u2013 I know you said not to mention it, but I would want to see the APRs of each of those cards. And then, based on that, then we can decide, like what\u2019s the most important? And then go down the list.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Very sophisticated question. David, what are the APRs of those credit cards and the car loan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:16]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0The one from Bank of America is 5.6%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a car loan of $13,000. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:25]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0The Amex. It\u2019s at 0% right now. In February, it\u2019s going to skyrocket to 26%. The Quicksilver, I believe that one\u2019s going to go up to 24%. Synchrony, the one for ADT is at 6% right now. The kitchen one is going to skyrocket to 28%. The Best Buy one, we have two and a half years to pay that off still before the interest rate kicks in for the Best Buy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that as a general guideline, credit cards are your enemy. I don\u2019t say that for most people, but in your case, you two have a history of overspending and using credit irresponsibly. So anytime you find yourself talking about playing a game, a gimmick, a hack, like 0% balance transfers, that\u2019s a gimmick. Any of that should be a red flag for the two of you. You should have a word. What\u2019s your red flag word where you just stop everything? It\u2019s like that button on the treadmill. You hit it, everything stops. What is the word?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:37]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Bananas.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bananas. Everybody stops. Okay, great. That\u2019s what one of you says when one of you is about to pull some type of scheme. Can you give me some examples of what schemes you would have used the term bananas for? Go ahead. Halima, you first.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:53]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0The whole timeshare thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bingo. David, you go next.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:57]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0The 0% transfer that I was going to do with the car loans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly. So now we\u2019re starting to see over and over and over bananas, bananas, gimmicks, schemes, scams, things that sound too good to be true. They\u2019re too confusing. I couldn\u2019t explain it to my mom. Bananas. Stop.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love this word bananas. It\u2019s such a perfect word to use in what has so far been a pretty heavy conversation. If you\u2019re listening to this or you\u2019re watching this on YouTube, what is a situation where you and your partner can set up a word that alerts you when there\u2019s something bad happening, something you need to take a break from, and also something good that you want to celebrate?\u00a0What\u2019s a word for that? That\u2019s my challenge to you this week.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now a quick message from our sponsors\u200b<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now back to the show.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re currently at 82%. I need to move faster now. I need to get this down to 60%. What do you want to do? Your debt payments, how much is this going to drop?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:04]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Zero.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. Okay, you\u2019re right. Damn, nice work. Hell, let\u2019s take a round of applause. Hit this with a zero, and we\u2019re\u2013 damn, we\u2019re down to 66%. Okay. I really did not think that was going to happen. That\u2019s a big difference. I am loving what I\u2019m seeing so far. What else? Didn\u2019t we talk about Amazon?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:30]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what do you want to do here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:32]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s bring that down to 800, I want to say.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:36]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>I would say 500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, be realistic. You\u2019re not going to cut it by two thirds. 800. I like it. I would like to see that better. I think you need to build the skills to get there. David, this is an area where you can help Halima. So you don\u2019t have to be the police. Hey, did you spend too much this month or this week? But it\u2019s like having open conversations about money. So just keep asking that as it relates to money. And I see Halima\u2013 gosh, I got to put you up on screen. Halima. I see you nodding a lot. Tell me about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:09]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s just the way that I communicate. When I agree with something, I nod, try to be an active listener.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>I love it. I appreciate it. And would you like it if he asked you those kind of questions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:19]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Okay. And he did, right? Which is fantastic. Such a good clue of your relationship. Okay, I\u2019m getting excited now. I got to keep going. What\u2019s that number up there right now? What is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:33]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a060%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>Holy shit. Guys, I have to tell you, I didn\u2019t think we would get there. I didn\u2019t. I thought we\u2019d get somewhere in the neighborhood, but I didn\u2019t think we\u2019d get to 60. What do you want to do with your additional $2,000 a month of cash flow?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:48]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I would put 15\u2013 Halima, what would you like to do? Thank you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:54]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I wouldn\u2019t say the full 2,000 but I want to say the 1,500 into the investments.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Nice. I like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:03]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s exactly what I was going to say, and that\u2019s why I love her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Great. So that\u2019s beautiful. It\u2019s way more aggressive than what you used to put in. Okay. You\u2019re doing it automatically, but you\u2019re leaving a little bit of buffer. I like that. All right. Damn, that\u2019s at 21% of net. That\u2019s quite high and I think appropriate for a couple. Let me tell you why I say that because I want you to know. Typically, I say five to 10%, but that\u2019s really the bare minimum. I like that number to be higher. I see a couple making almost $200,000 a year with a relatively small amount in investments, $11,000. It\u2019s time to get aggressive.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:43]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I also just say that investment part doesn\u2019t include either of our pensions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly. That\u2019s true. That\u2019s a good point. Oh, you have a pension too, Halima?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:54]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow, what are you going to get paid out when you retire?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:58]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, I\u2019m not sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, go find out. No more passive, Halima. What\u2019s the new Halima called? We got to describe her. Give me an adjective.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:07]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s active. She\u2019s direct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. What is it, like Crown Halima? Give me something visual because active is boring. I want to see it. A movie character. What is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:19]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0The goddess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now we\u2019re talking. Halima, what do you say? You the goddess?<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:24]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I already knew it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Fuck,\u00a0yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:26]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I say that to her all the time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That is the kind of confidence I want to see. Okay, I\u2019m loving this. Goddess Halima damn well better find out her pension amounts because that actually dramatically affects how much you need to save. Let me put it this way. Right now, if you can afford to put 21% of net towards your investments in your early 30, I think that\u2019s a really good thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:52]\u00a0Maybe after a couple of years, maybe you pull back, but honestly, I find that people tend to learn to live on the amounts they have leftover. And since your investments are being automatically swept away, you just have to retrain yourself to live on a little bit less. Fantastic. All right. You got $11,000 in your joint checking. What\u2019s up with that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:15]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We haven\u2019t been putting it towards the debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:19]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We should have<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:22]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I was thinking of waiting till the last possible minute to pay off the debt because of the 0% interest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Say it, Halima.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:36]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Bananas.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bananas. That\u2019s a banana, if I ever heard one. I really want to just take a second and celebrate. First of all, round of applause. I\u2019m so amazed at what you\u2019ve accomplished already. Second, you have a word that the two of you use to celebrate or something that you do when something great happens?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:58]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We only have words for when things are going bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s real. That\u2019s honest. You had bananas. That came out like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:10]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Because we use that for when one of us is yelling at the kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:17]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0We say bananas, and then the other one steps in.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Guys, what a great tool that you\u2019ve had that conversation and you\u2019ve developed that language. Can we develop a positive language for a second? What would it be where you just stop what you\u2019re doing and you just go over and give the other one a big hug? What would it be?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:37]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m proud of us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How do you feel about that, David?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:43]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0I want it to just be a one-word thing. How about Hershey\u2019s?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:54]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Hershey\u2019s. I like it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like the smiles on both of your faces right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:01]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Because we just went to Hershey park. The kids loved it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:04]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0Good memory.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Love it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:05]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, good memories.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Hershey\u2019s it is. So what would you like to say, looking at this new fixed cost that you\u2019ve got up here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:14]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0Hershey\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Beautiful job.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m proud of the conversation that I had with David and Halima, and I\u2019m extremely proud of how far they came. They could have coasted along for the rest of their lives, trapping themselves, drowning in debt, and never really understanding why, but they showed up for this conversation, and I\u2019m very impressed with them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:40]\u00a0Now, are they going to make every single change we talked about and stay on track? I don\u2019t know. Candidly, it\u2019s really hard to change a lifetime of attitude and behavior towards money. It\u2019s hard.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:54]\u00a0But if they took this seriously, and if they made this a top priority, they got a therapist, they set up time to speak to each other every single two weeks,\u00a0they were aligned, they started to slowly change the way they talk about money, think about money, feel about money, they could do it. They have a chance to totally change the trajectory of their lives and the lives of their kids. Now let\u2019s check in on their follow-ups, starting with David.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:24]\u00a0<strong>David:<\/strong>\u00a0What I\u2019ve learned is that we can work better as a team, my wife and I. You don\u2019t just bench a good player or let a good player not reach their potential. My wife has a lot of potential, and I need to use that more. I also learned that I need to stop trying to outsmart these banks because they\u2019ve been playing this game a lot longer than I have.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:49]\u00a0What was surprising to me was It\u2019s the fact that I listen to every single episode and I still need numerous changes to make because, I don\u2019t know, I thought I\u2019d made enough changes and stuff. I got surprised with that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:07]\u00a0The changes that we\u2019re making, specifically, are we\u2019ve already paid down the debt. We already moved some money into a high yield savings account. And we\u2019re reading the book together. We\u2019re trying to get through it to make sure that we actually put everything into use.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><strong>\u00a0<\/strong>And now let\u2019s hear from Halima.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:29]\u00a0<strong>Halima:<\/strong>\u00a0I learned that my feelings were validated, and that my instinct, I should trust it that maybe we are spending a little more than we\u2019re making. I needed to hear that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:40]\u00a0I\u2019m surprised that I was falling back to these familiar habits. My whole life, I always had a caretaker to take care of finances, and now that I\u2019ve given the second chance to be with a wonderful man, I was falling back and being dismissive about things<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:03]\u00a0So if I have questions, I have to ask, and I do need to stay on top of the finances because David and I we\u2019re a team, and he deserves a teammate. I need to not only read through the book, which I got through three chapters already, but like a book club, David and I want to go through every chapter, take notes, dissect it, and then come together and really break it apart and see what kind of changes we\u2019re going to make as a team.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0David and\u00a0Halima, I want to thank you for showing up, for following up, and for doing the work that can change your life.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>David, 33, and Halima, 37, return to follow-up on last week\u2019s episode, where we learned about their debt, painful backgrounds, unrealistic expectations, and patterns of negative behavior with money. Today, Ramit brings them back down to earth, dissects their numbers, and sets the stakes. This episode is brought to you by: AG1 | Take ownership [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118936","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Nasrin","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118936","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118936"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118936\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118936"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118936"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}