{"id":118950,"date":"2023-10-10T17:30:16","date_gmt":"2023-10-10T21:30:16","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118950"},"modified":"2025-04-07T10:05:03","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:05:03","slug":"125-cristina-ron-1","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/125-cristina-ron-1\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 125. \u201cHe\u2019s so afraid of money he can\u2019t log into his own bank account\u201d (Part 1)"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cHe\u2019s too afraid to log into his own bank account\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/theHFt4AlBs\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/2FWBiH82TZZTsXftL4GRjY\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Meet Cristina and Ron. Cristina\u2019s 30, Ron is 45, and they\u2019ve been married for four years. Cristina wonders why she\u2019s the one managing money in their relationship, especially when Ron is older and he should be thinking about his retirement. We discover shocking surprises in their spending.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>LMNT | Right now, LMNT is offering 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. This is a great way to try all 8 flavors. Get yours at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT\">https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Rocket Money | Stop throwing your money away. Cancel unwanted subscriptions \u2013 and manage your expenses the easy way \u2013 by going to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/rocketmoney.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Trade | Right now, Trade is offering our audience a free bag of coffee with any subscription at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/drinktrade.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/drinktrade.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Tools mentioned in this episode<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<\/a><\/li>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1vMHFRXM0YBK2IGpugJP0RQETicNl2suL\/view?usp=sharing\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I never thought about the future. I was single until my mid to late 30s, before we got together. My money was my money. If I just wanted to go out with my boys, if I want to go out to Vegas, if I want to go out drinking a couple of nights a week, as long as I had enough in my pocket that I could go do those things, I was happy. Now that we\u2019re together and our expenses are together, I\u2019m so scared of spending anything because I don\u2019t want to lose it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What would you say your feeling is toward money, if you had to describe it in a word?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:30]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0One word? Afraid.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:32]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0And it scares me too. And I feel like I can\u2019t tell him I\u2019m scared because I\u2019m the one that manages it. It puts a lot of pressure on me to get my things together when I feel like, okay, I\u2019m 30. I can make a little bit of mistake, but I feel like I can\u2019t because he\u2019s 45, and I need to think about him because he\u2019s not thinking about himself. It makes me have doubts of our relationship sometimes.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meet Cristina and Ron. Cristina\u2019s 30. Ron is 45, and they\u2019ve been married for four years. Cristina wonders why she\u2019s the one managing money in their relationship, especially when Ron is older and he should be thinking about his retirement. Now, before I speak to couples on this podcast, I always get prepped, but I have to tell you, I was extremely surprised by a lot of what I discovered in today\u2019s conversation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:27] You\u2019re going to hear financial decisions that shocked me, and you\u2019re going to hear a lot of very, very surprising money psychology. By the way, speaking of money psychology, you ever notice when someone gets complimented on something they\u2019re wearing and they\u2019re automatic response is, thanks, I got it on sale. That\u2019s just one of the many ways that we play small with money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:49] And this coming Saturday, October 14th, in my newsletter, I\u2019m going to be writing about five ways that we play small with money. Make sure you\u2019re on the list so you can get this newsletter at iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter. Okay, let\u2019s get to the episode.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:06]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0There was a couple of vacations planned for this year, some together and then some separately. My thing is, she\u2019s going on, in my opinion, too many little mini vacations, and I just see the dollar signs adding up in my head. She said, hey, me and the girls are going to plan a girl\u2019s trip to New Orleans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:29] My initial reaction is, no, we can\u2019t afford it. It\u2019s too much. You just got back from England. I just say, is this something we can afford? Because she\u2019s more in tune with our finances than I am. She pays more attention. She does the day-to-day stuff. Whatever bills come in, she\u2019s already working all the different accounts. So I full-heartedly just go with what she says.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. And then how did it get resolved?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:58]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s going to New Orleans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And Ron, can you afford it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:06]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0In my head, no. On paper, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, what\u2019s the difference between your head and paper?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:14]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m cheap. I\u2019m more frugal than she is. She\u2019s just\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Which one? Cheap or frugal? Those are two different words.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:24]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Frugal, I\u2019m going to say. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Why is that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:29]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not cheap because I don\u2019t mind spending money when we have it. I\u2019m frugal because I just see dollar signs, dollar signs, dollar signs, and then I just imagine these numbers in my head like, we\u2019re going to be spending this huge amount when in reality, she\u2019s already got it budgeted because she\u2019s good at doing that where it\u2019s only going to be a small amount. So I\u2019m already imagining the worst.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s the frugal part of that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:55]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Maybe cheap.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Remember that cheap people almost always describe themselves in favorable terms. They\u2019ll say things like, I\u2019m not cheap. I\u2019m just selective. Or, I don\u2019t need to eat in a frou-frou restaurant. I\u2019m simple. Here, Ron uses frugal, which, in American culture, is a positive value.\u00a0 But of course, there\u2019s a difference between cheap and frugal, which you can find on page 131 of my book, I Will Teach You to Be Rich. If you are a conscious spender like I hope you are, your frugality really only affects you. But if you\u2019re cheap, your cheapness affects everyone around you. And I suspect that\u2019s what\u2019s going on here.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Cristina, I\u2019m curious, from your perspective, that same conversation, what do you remember happening?<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:42]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I told him about it and his automatic response was no. I know every time I approach him, I already have a game plan with him. I tell him like, this is how it\u2019s going to be. This is how I\u2019m going to save money. But before I get there, when he says no, it really frustrates me, and I get really sad that before I can even tell him how I can save money and enjoy my time, it almost seems like he is raining on my parade.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:10] And I can\u2019t even plan with him or make proper decisions with him of like, if I give him a plan of, well, I\u2019m going to use this, and I\u2019m going to do this to save us money, so I can afford this, I can\u2019t even have that with him. Automatically, the end of the conversation is, okay, you know, the money. If you say we can do it, then do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Out of curiosity, Ron, if I asked you how much is in your checking account, within 25,000, how much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:45]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, it\u2019s not 25,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ballpark it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:54]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Seven to 10.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. And within, let\u2019s say a savings account, how much would you say is in there? Your savings account.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:02]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, I mean my personal savings, I don\u2019t know, 2,000, but we\u2019ve got a couple of different accounts though.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. And your joint savings account, how much would you say? Cristina is looking at this like this is literally the most entertaining reality show she\u2019s ever seen. Cristina, am I getting this right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:23]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0She cannot stop smiling for the last two minutes. All right. Sit tight. Ron, joint savings account, ballpark it for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:31]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a010.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, fine. Cristina, what do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:35]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Off. Completely off.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Like how much off?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:39]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0A lot off. Accounts are not even right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, well, the checking account, I think Ron said 7k.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:47]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, seven to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What was he talking about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:49]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0So his personal checking account is at 2,200.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:55]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0My personal checking account is around four because I just got paid.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:00]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Our joint savings account is about 8,500, and then our joint checking account is about 4,600.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He\u2019s not that far off. Ron, I think you\u2019re in the universe. He didn\u2019t say $200,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:18]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. You know what? Ron, I\u2019m giving it up for you. You were closer than I thought. That\u2019s impressive. Cristina, how come you think he\u2019s wildly off?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:29]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Because every time he talks, he has two mentalities. It\u2019s either we\u2019re poor or we don\u2019t have money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that not the same thing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:41]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0To him it\u2019s not.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s the difference between poor and not having enough money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:46]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Poor, we can\u2019t spend a dollar on anything. Scared. She\u2019s right with the other one. We can do something this month, but we can\u2019t spend that much. We can go to the movies, but we can\u2019t go out to dinner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s what you describe as we don\u2019t have money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:06]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Does this seem a little hyperbolic to you? We don\u2019t have money. Seems quite alarming to me. Oh my God. If we truly don\u2019t have money, that\u2019s a 9-1-1. But actually, we can go out to the movies, and we have a savings account, and we have investments. It\u2019s fine. But we don\u2019t have money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:26]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Sounds silly when you put it your way. It\u2019s because I still want to have some life. I work really hard. I don\u2019t want to have to just stay in and do nothing. So I\u2019d like to think, hey, we could still go do a little something as long as we\u2019re not spending a lot of money. We\u2019ll spend $40 as opposed to 200 going out to dinner.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Listen, I\u2019m with you. You should spend something, probably spend below your means, I agree, but I never say I don\u2019t have money. I have money. I\u2019m looking at your numbers. You have money too, right? Cristina, I understand that you come to him with an idea or something you want to do. He says no. You have already game-planned your strategy of how you\u2019re going to convince him. That is your role in the relationship, right? Convince him.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:17]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then he is the \u201cfinal decider,\u201d but he decides by essentially delegating it to you, correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:26]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0As I say that dynamic out loud, have you two ever considered that is the actual dynamic going on here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:35]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, we\u2019ve talked about it a lot. I\u2019ve tried to address it with him how I don\u2019t want to make all the decisions. That\u2019s why we started doing the finance conversation every month. But that hasn\u2019t really happened in a couple of months because I\u2019m tired of making the decisions. I\u2019m tired of managing everything. And then when I come to him, I still have to teach him about our finances. And then at the end of the conversation, he ends up reverting to me anyway. So what was the point of having a conversation with him?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:08]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0She\u2019s 100% accurate. I can\u2019t even argue with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Is there a problem with it or are you okay with the way it is?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:18]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m okay with the way that it is. I know she\u2019s not. For me, it\u2019s just easier because if I see us spending money, even though I know we have it, it\u2019s going to cause arguments for me because I\u2019m going to be so super cheap. I\u2019m not going to want to spend a dime, even though we have it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m curious about the way you just described yourself and your own behavior. You said, if it comes to spending money, it\u2019s going to be a problem. It as if from heaven on down, it is a problem because I\u2019m going to have to blank, blank, blank. It seems like you disembodied yourself in that description. Can we try that again? This time describe you. Tell me about you. What will happen next time there\u2019s a financial conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:08]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to get worked up. I\u2019m going to get nervous, and I\u2019m going to get scared for the future.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, I appreciate that. All right. It\u2019s different, right, to describe yourself with agency?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:23]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I\u2019m not used to talking about myself.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So much dancing around the truth going on right now. There\u2019s the use of language, cheap versus frugal. We don\u2019t have any money, while clearly having money. And then there\u2019s the fact that she has to plan to have a conversation about money before ever actually having the conversation. And of course, beneath it all, Ron actually is not that engaged with money at all.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:47] There\u2019s just a lot of narratives here, and in a relationship, narratives may or may not be true. I should note, by the way, that before we even started recording, Ron invited me to direct most of my questions towards Cristina. That alone is revealing in showing his lack of agency and also his way of delegating money right back to Cristina.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:09]\u00a0 We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:13] Now back to Cristina and Ron.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is there a time when you spend money where you don\u2019t think about the cost?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:20]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Me? No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You like spending money on anything?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:27]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0No, because I don\u2019t really have any hobbies or anything that I\u2019m interested that I want to actually spend it on.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What would you say your feeling is toward money, if you had to describe it in a word or two?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:40]<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:40]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0One word? Afraid.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you like money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:49]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I like it. I wish I had more of it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:55]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0You mean to earn a year or in savings and stuff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s go with both. Let\u2019s start with earning per year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:02]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d at least like to make 150 a year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you make the higher income out of the two of you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:11]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Right now, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:11]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Right now, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s basically like, you\u2019d like to make about 30k more than you make. Right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:16]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. It\u2019s always the same number. People always have a very similar number of how much more they want to make. And how much you\u2019d like to have in savings?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:27]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Eventually, probably like to have at least a 100.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0100k in a savings account. Okay. And what would happen one day when you have that? I feel actually very confident you will have that. What will happen on that day?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:45]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably nothing. I\u2019m sure I\u2019ll still be pretty nervous, or I know it\u2019s just\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s so crazy. So in other words, you could spend your whole life trying to get to this arbitrary number, and then one day when you reach it, which you actually will, then you realize the entire life that I spent agonizing over $5, $10, $50 actually meant nothing because my feelings are highly uncorrelated with the numbers in my bank account. Is that what you\u2019re telling me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:11]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I like to hope that once we get to that number that it\u2019ll change because that\u2019s the number in my head, but until we get there\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll just be your crystal ball. It\u2019s never going to happen. I need to be a psychic. All right. I need to do this. Next time I go to India, I\u2019m like, all right, I\u2019m going put up my little shingle on the street. Ramit Sethi, Psychic from America. This actually would have been more successful back in the day when not as many Americans went there. Nowadays, they don\u2019t care. And the only question I take is going to be, will I feel better about money one day when I have more? And I\u2019ll just go, no, get the hell out of here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:50] All right. We concluded that. Cristina, what do you think about hearing Ron\u2019s answers about how he feels about money? Scared. That\u2019s pretty open. I don\u2019t hear too many people use words like scared or nervous. What do you think about that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:06]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m happy he\u2019s saying that to you. I was aware of it. We\u2019ve talked a lot about it. I try to pry these things out of him. It\u2019s like an occupation hazard almost, I\u2019m at the point where I don\u2019t know what to do with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Is Cristina the big picture thinker in your relationship?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:28]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then what role are you, Ron?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:35]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I like to think I\u2019m still the one that keeps her grounded. I think if it wasn\u2019t for me saying no to certain things, that she might overspend. So for me being cheap, I think that keeps us grounded.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0By being cheap, by saying no, you\u2019re actually doing a service to her and to the relationship.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:02]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Not doing a service to our relationship by any means.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not joking. I\u2019m serious. I\u2019m trying to interpret what you\u2019re saying because you said, I keep her grounded. And then you said by being cheap, and I\u2019m going to now paraphrase, I prevent her from what she might do, which would be to overspend. In other words, to translate it, I\u2019m actually a really helpful, functional member of this relationship. I\u2019m actually doing her a favor by keeping her grounded. Is that accurate or not?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:41]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes and no. Me being the way that I am is actually a negative thing for our relationship. Causes a lot of arguments.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Cristina, how would you describe how you feel about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:57]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m okay with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s not a\u2013 what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:01]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He told us nervous, scared, all these emotional things. And you\u2019re like, I\u2019m okay. What?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:09]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so I feel confused about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Tell me more.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:15]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I\u2019m going to get emotional because you\u2019re asking me emotions. I used to be very scared about it because just like Ronnie, my family are immigrants. I\u2019m an immigrant. So we came from absolutely nothing as well. And then having to figure it out on my own. My parents didn\u2019t teach me anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:35] I almost have to learn everything on my own. So it was a very scary process, but I feel proud where we\u2019re at now and how far we\u2019ve come as far as I could take it essentially on my own. So now I\u2019m just confused and maybe a little lost of what do I do at this point? Because I just feel like I don\u2019t know how far I can take this on my own.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And how long have you two been married for?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:03]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019ve been together for 10, married for four.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. All right. So when you say how far you can take it on your own, is the subtext there that you have done the finances in your relationship on your own?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:18]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Ron, is that accurate?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:22]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. That\u2019s pretty honest. I appreciate that, Cristina. So how would you two describe the dynamic between the two of you when it comes to money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:40]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Babe, you can take this one first.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:43]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think over the years, it was such a hard topic to talk about. It was a fight all the time, and it\u2019s gotten better, but now recently, I feel like I just avoid it a little bit more, so we\u2019re not fighting as much. I bring it up, but if I could tell, oh, he\u2019s overwhelmed by it, or he doesn\u2019t want to have a conversation about it, I just like, okay, fine. We\u2019ll talk about it some other time. I\u2019ll figure it out. And I just don\u2019t ask him any more questions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You take it on yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:13]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:14] All right, now we understand the roles. He avoids, she feels like she has to manage it, but she\u2019s not really confident in money, so she feels alone. Have we heard this pattern before? Yes, many times on this podcast. The thing that stands out to me is Ron\u2019s comment that his role is to keep her grounded. What\u2019s the implication here? That without him watching over her spending she might just spiral and spend all their money. Is this real, or is this just a story? I want to find out by learning how they grew up with money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:47]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m nervous just because of the way that we grew up. We had some really good times, and then we had some really bad times. So I never want to put us in any financial troubles. That\u2019s why I am the way that I am.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The troubling times happened, what, in your teen years?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:06]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Great school middle school. High school, we had real good and then real bad. My dad was a contractor, so we\u2019d have a good year, then we\u2019d have a bunch of really bad months, and so fluctuated.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:17] My dad was the only one that worked in the family, so when he wasn\u2019t in a contract, 23 still had bills to pay, so we had to borrow money from family sometimes. We almost lost the house, but grandparents helped out with that. I\u2019ve got two older brothers, mom, and dad. We didn\u2019t do a lot when we were kids because we didn\u2019t have the money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:44] We didn\u2019t go on vacations. We didn\u2019t go out to dinners. We still had a lot of fun because it was growing up in the 80s, but seeing the way that my parents fought about money or the lack of, I don\u2019t want us to be like that. So those are things I just don\u2019t want to have happen, and I would hate to ask for handouts from people.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you grow up in the Midwest?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:10]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, sir.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:11]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0So whenever he said he was poor, he was cheap, he was this, not to diminish what he experienced because I get it, but it\u2019s like, you don\u2019t know war until you go in the Philippines. We were homeless at some point. I would have to beg neighbors for food, for dinner, so that our family could eat. That\u2019s how poor we were.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think that there\u2019s a way to be a sensible spender without being cheap?<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:44]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, if we have a budget set aside for each of us for each month. We can only spend this amount. You can spend this amount. I can spend this amount. And if that\u2019s the case, then she can go do whatever she wants to with it as long as we\u2019re still saving at the same time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Uh, just a quick question for you. When was the last time you kept a budget for longer than two weeks?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:09]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0We actually just started it a month ago.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How about before that? Never?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:18]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What a surprise. Ron, is it possible that maybe a budget is not the solution?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:29]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s a possibility, but I think the budget is the solution. And nothing\u2019s ever 100% in this world, so I can\u2019t say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I like it. I like the pushback. All right, let\u2019s play it out. So you have the budget, and how did you both create this budget?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:50]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Off of you, actually.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, you used my conscious spending plan. Okay. First of all, that\u2019s not a fucking budget. All right. Whatever. Used the CSP. You came up with some numbers which are forward-looking not backwards-looking. You have some guidelines. All right, cool. I\u2019m happy to hear that. What was the process like creating the conscious spending plan together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:14]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Probably kick it over to her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, why is that? Wait, I want to hear from Ron. Ron, tell me, what was it like creating it? Did you create it together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:22]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the f\u2013 all right, okay. Even though the instructions explicitly say you must create this together. So how did that go down? Cristina, you applied to talk to me, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:38]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. So we actually have had this CSP for three months, not one month, and we actually sat down together, not just me telling him. Don\u2019t know if he remembers that. And even though we\u2019ve created a budget, and this is not the only time we\u2019ve done a budget, we\u2019ve done it in the first few years of our relationship, it\u2019s now coming up to itself as well, where we have a budget and Ronnie says, baby, we have a budget. We have to stick with the budget. We can\u2019t spend that. So even if we have a budget, he still says, no, we can\u2019t spend money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:15]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0At least if I know that we are not going over that each, and even if she goes over and I still have some in mine, I always told her, just take some of mine. I\u2019m not spending it. If you need to do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, so does it make you feel better?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:32]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0To have the budget?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:34]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0It does.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, and do you still caution her about overspending now that you\u2019ve got this budget, which is not a budget?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:43]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, because once she goes over the budget, then that\u2019s when I chime in. I\u2019m like, we\u2019re over the budget, or she\u2019ll tell me that we\u2019re over the budget, and I\u2019m like, okay, then why are we spending more?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So let me give some perspective. When you first start using the conscious spending plan, you try to get everything you can, but the whole point is it\u2019s 85% of the way accurate. You\u2019re never going to get a 100%. It\u2019s actually prohibitively difficult to get every single expense. How much did we spend on celery? It\u2019s irrelevant.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:15] And once in a while, you have these annual expenses like auto insurance, or a holiday trip, or an anniversary dinner. Those are bigger expenses, and people tend to forget we\u2019re not built to properly account for all those things. So there\u2019s a couple of solutions. Number one, the CSP in the fixed cost should actually include 15% miscellaneous expenses on top of everything. Just add a nice little buffer. And then second, you got to give each other a little bit of grace here. Hey, we\u2019re going to make a couple of mistakes. It\u2019s probably not going to sink us. Let\u2019s just note it. We\u2019ll adapt the CSP, then we\u2019ll go forward. It\u2019s a learning process.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I want to share the two types of people who find doing the conscious spending plan together really difficult. These two types are quite revealing, and they teach you a lot about money psychology. The first type are avoiders. This one is obvious because avoiders hate talking about money, and the CSP is literally putting actual numbers on a page, so they will do anything they can to squirm out from the process.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:18] We actually had one couple where a wife admitted that she started a fight on the day they were supposed to fill out their CSP so that she and her husband didn\u2019t have to do it together. The second category of people who find it difficult to fill out the CSP together is a little bit more subtle.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:33] These are the people who like to get the right answer. These are the people who usually try to get an A in school, often took very safe career paths. They\u2019re often people pleasers. They\u2019re people who don\u2019t like to get the answer wrong, and they find the CSP 85% approach really hard because they have a need to get every single number exactly correct.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:57] This predictably drives their partners crazy. So the get it right person, you know what they do? They snatch the CSP out of their partner\u2019s hands, and they say, here, I\u2019ll just do it. I\u2019m telling you this to show you how money is never simply a series of numbers on a page. It\u2019s contextualized within your culture, your upbringing, your risk tolerance, even your basic understanding of money. With all that said, if you want to live a rich life, just fill out the damn CSP. It\u2019s one of the foundational pieces of your finances. Get the link in the show notes. Just get the link anywhere and fill it out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:32] We\u2019ll be right back.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:35] Now back to the episode.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Had you taken that approach? Do you think that the conversation in the last month would have gone a little differently? No. Cristina says, no. Tell me why.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:48]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Because we\u2019ve done that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What happened?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:51]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0And he still freaks out. When we first started dating, I was only working part-time, and now that I\u2019m full-time, we\u2019ve created a buffer. We have a savings account. We have a budget. I\u2019ve put a buffer in our checking account to make sure we are at least one month full of the budget, have a buffer before a paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And let me guess, it doesn\u2019t change the way he feels.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:16]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-uh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Cristina, can I ask you a question? Did you notice who was involved in every step you just told me?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:23]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I set up a buffer. I set up a budget. What\u2019s special about one person taking on all the work and then another person or people being dissatisfied with it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:42]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Nobody\u2019s happy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, nobody has any skin in the game. If one person cooks dinner, everybody might say, oh, I don\u2019t like that. Too much salt. But if everyone is in there doing a little bit\u2013 I\u2019m going to set the table. You\u2019re going to empty the dishwasher, etc. It\u2019s hard to complain if you\u2019re involved. Would you agree?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:06]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I think that\u2019s why I\u2019m trying to have him be part of the conversation. And that\u2019s why I asked for help, is because part of the reason is he\u2019s 45, 46. He needs to be in this. I am planning for our future, our retirement, but I get no input for him, and I\u2019m only 30. And I feel like we have such a big age gap. Your retirement is so much closer than I am. Why am I planning for your retirement by myself?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think about that Ron?<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:37]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I hate hearing it, but it\u2019s true because I never thought about the future. I was single until my mid to late 30s, before we got together. My money was my money. If I just wanted to go out with my boys, if I want to go out to Vegas, if I want to go out drinking a couple of nights a week, I never thought about the future. As long as I had enough in my pocket that I could go do those things, I was happy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:11] Now that we\u2019re together and our expenses are together, I feel like it\u2019s putting so much weight on me to make sure that my family is taken care of, that we always have a future and everything, so I\u2019m so scared of spending anything because I don\u2019t want to lose it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Which family are you having to take care of? The two of you, or are there others?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:35]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0No, us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a little confusing to me, Ron, because if I were you\u2013 I was single for a long time. I could go out to wherever and spend money, or whatever. But my wife, she works. Of course we live together. The way I look at it is like, oh my God. We can actually live in an even nicer place. We can travel longer. Why? Because the two of us are doing it together. I don\u2019t need to buy a loaf of bread just for myself. We get to use our combined income for that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:09]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0And I know my way of thinking is not right, and I know it\u2019s caused a lot of arguments and everything like that. It\u2019s just, like I said, when I said I was scared about money, that\u2019s just not me using just a word just to say it. I truly am because I go through ups and downs in my business. I go through busy times during a season where I\u2019m doing really well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:33] And then in the off season, I\u2019m not. So now that we\u2019re going into the off season again, I know my pay is going to get cut in half or even in thirds. So I think about that throughout the year, like, oh, I\u2019m doing good, so I want to keep saving it because I need that buffer for those off seasons.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sounds very familiar. Who does it remind you of?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:58]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0My dad. Dad saved everything, and we never had any fun.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0He saved everything. He never had any fun. And when times were good, meaning when he was making money, he was saving it. When times were bad?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:27]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0When times were bad, we didn\u2019t spend it. We didn\u2019t do anything. Everything was just, we got to pay for the bills, and we got to put food on the table.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You carried that from your parents to the two of you. Now, what are the differences between your parents, financially speaking, and the two of you here?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:51]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0We were only a single-income family until times got really rough, and then mom took on a part-time job, where we are a dual-income family with no kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a pretty big difference, don\u2019t you think? Seems like a tragedy to be living the same way your parents did, full of worry, overconstraint, agonizing over these expenses. I\u2019m sure your parents did the best they could. They had one income, different time, but you two have no children and two incomes. What do you think about that, Ron? I can see you taking some deep breaths right now. What is it, Ron? It\u2019s difficult to talk about this, or what\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:44]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it\u2019s a little difficult to talk about and just to know the burden that she has.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. If anybody needs to take a break at any time, just say the word.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let\u2019s talk about the ages here. She\u2019s 30. He\u2019s 45. Deep down, a lot of people really believe that other people are motivated by logic, reason, and numbers. And then when other people don\u2019t act logically, we all get completely confused. Huh? Ron is 45. Theoretically, he should be more interested in money, more concerned with money. He should be taking over more of the money responsibilities. After all, logically, he\u2019s older. He\u2019s closer to retirement, and he has less time to compound. Guess what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:41] The truth is he just doesn\u2019t care that much. People are not logical with their finances. They\u2019re not logical with their relationships. They\u2019re not even logical with their medicine. Even when people have a life-or-death illness, a surprising number of people don\u2019t even take their medicine. You don\u2019t believe me? Go Google patient adherence. Look it up. See for yourself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:01] Guys, the point of this podcast is to show you how complex money and psychology really is. The sooner that you realize we are all irrational with our money, you, me, all of us, the sooner you will be able to understand your own behavior and of course, others behavior. And what I\u2019m going to try to do right now is to get them to both realize how their beliefs are affecting their relationship.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ron, I\u2019m curious about the burden that you are starting to understand. I wonder if you could talk a little bit more about that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:36]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0She tries to talk to me about money, but she\u2019s right. I usually don\u2019t want to hear about it because I don\u2019t want to see the numbers. And that just causes a lot of friction between us. She\u2019s trying. I\u2019m resistant about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what effect do you think that has on her?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:00]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, man, just the stress and strain that it puts on our relationship. That she\u2019s the one that she has the burden of doing it all. It\u2019s not easy for her.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t want to speak for you, Cristina, but I wonder if there\u2019s any cultural issues at play. I wonder if there\u2019s any age-related issues at play. Cristina, what do you think?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:38]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Age wise, it puts a lot of pressure on me to have to get my things together when I feel like, okay, I\u2019m 30. I can make a little bit of mistake, but I feel like I can\u2019t because he\u2019s 45, and I need to think about him because he\u2019s not thinking about himself.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ron, you articulated it so well. You said, I\u2019m resisting. She\u2019s trying to pull me, and I\u2019m resisting. And I think, Cristina, you just offered a really quite vivid demonstration of, if we contextualize it, why this is so important to you. You have a different view on what poor is. You want a partner. Did I get that right? Am I being accurate in that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:34]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, you are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is there anything that you want to tell Ron that you\u2019ve never told him about money before?<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:40]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0The more we talk about it right now, I do feel alone. It makes me have doubts of our relationship sometimes because of it, and it scares me too. And I feel like I can\u2019t tell him I\u2019m scared because I\u2019m the one that manages it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you have to be strong, even though you\u2019re scared.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:08]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tough to hear.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:15]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess deep down I knew that was a case, but hearing it right now, that hurts. It doesn\u2019t hurt me. It hurts that it hurts her that she\u2019s feeling this way, because I never want my partner to feel that way. I never want to hurt them in any way. I think that\u2019s why I work so hard. She is looking for a partner. She\u2019s looking for someone that she can just bounce ideas off. She\u2019s always said she doesn\u2019t care if we don\u2019t make that much money. If we made half as much as we do right now, she doesn\u2019t care, just as long as we are there together, doing everything together.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re playing ball with me, and I really like that. These are tough conversations, and you have been here every step of the way. Cristina, you too. So Ron, what I like that I just heard you say is you understand the pain that you\u2019re causing Cristina. That\u2019s hard. I can\u2019t make you realize there\u2019s a problem, but you did that. I can offer you a couple of solutions, and then we can talk about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:38] This idea that she\u2019s better at the day-to-day, first of all, let\u2019s get rid of this dumb concept. It\u2019s a thing in our culture. She does the day-to-day, and I make the big decisions about the car and the house. First of all, in order to make the big decisions, you actually need to be quite financially sad. You need to understand ratios and all kinds of stuff.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:03] Second of all, the day-to-day for a lot of the stuff that used to be valuable, like paying bills on time, please listen to me, America, that\u2019s not valuable. It\u2019s not. If somebody comes to me and says, I manage the money, I say, what does that mean to you? They go, oh, I\u2019d make sure the bills are paid on time. I go, a robot can do that better than you. You have been automated. What has way, way more value, a 1,000 times more value is deciding is our savings rate 7% or 9%. Is our investment rate 6% or 11%? That is worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Whether you paid your target bill, irrelevant.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:47]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So the real solution here is that you\u2019ve both got to get involved. Cristina, you\u2019re probably going to offload some of what you\u2019ve been doing to Ron. Ron is going to take it on. Ron may not be perfect at it. I don\u2019t mind. Ron\u2019s going to make a couple of mistakes. Big deal. Fix it. Get on with it next month. That\u2019s my approach. Cristina, how does that sound to you? Would you be willing to offload some of the things you\u2019re doing to Ron?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:19]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Would love to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can you think of anything that you\u2019d like to?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:23]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh, insurance.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:26]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Because he\u2019s a finance manager, I feel like he\u2019ll know all the insurance stuff better than I will.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:31]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess I\u2019m just worried what you want her to unload on me because you\u2019re right. I am worried about making a mistake and putting us into some financial spiral or something.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What mistake are you worried that you\u2019ll do? Give me an example.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:52]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Bankrupt us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did Cristina mentioned that you\u2019re a finance manager?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:58]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So when you\u2019re doing deals or whatever, you\u2019re talking about interest rates, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:02]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What kind of interest rates are you offering right now? What do you sell anyway?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:08]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Motorcycles.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So what kind of interest rate are people getting these days?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:11]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Depending on their credit score, they\u2019re going from mid-single digits up to bad credit, high 20s.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the fuck? 20% interest rate on a motorcycle?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:27]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, depending on their credit score, 28, 29%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you\u2019re buying a\u2013 how much do these motorcycles cost?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:36]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Ooh, anywhere from 10 to 50.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the fuck is going on right now? All right. I can\u2019t believe\u2013 anyway, why was I even asking that question? Ron, I\u2019d like you to read this off as well. Gross monthly income combined, what number do you see there?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:51]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0$17,044.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much do you both make per year?<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:58]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Little bit shy of 100.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:00]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Um, what the hell are you talking about? Look at this number I just put on screen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:07]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, but you got to remember I go into slow periods where six months out of the year, it\u2019s really good, and then the\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, so this doesn\u2019t account for that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:18]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0This is\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Go ahead, Cristina.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:22]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0This is a projection of what we\u2019re going to make this year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, hold on. I\u2019m very confused because Ron said just shy of a hundred. Cristina, you want to speak up? You have a real big smile on your face right now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:35]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0He doesn\u2019t know how much he makes. I told you we made 120 last year, but I never told him how much we were going to make this year because I was making money moves this year, so I couldn\u2019t even project how much I was going to make this year. But that was my best guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. This is an interesting scenario then. Ron, you told me a little while ago, I\u2019d like to make more money. And when I do make 30k more, hopefully, I\u2019ll feel better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:03]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Just stand by. You\u2019re going to make almost double what you made last year as a household. You feel better about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:16]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Hearing you say it, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really? You feel better?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:24]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel a little bit better now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:27]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel better knowing that we\u2019re making more than we did last year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Now, one more question for you. Can you tell me about a time in the next month where you will go to Cristina and tell her that you would like to go spend money on X, Y, or Z? What will it be?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:57]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019ll probably be something for the both of us. It\u2019ll probably be either a dinner, or recently, I\u2019ve been thinking like, hey, let\u2019s just go get a hotel room overnight that has a water park kind of thing. Something that we could just get away from this or that for a night, go have a little fun together. I\u2019ve recently been thinking about stuff like that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. Part of what\u2019s going to happen is this recalibration of the roles, from one person pulling and the other resisting to maybe both of you trying to go the same direction.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0First of all, hilarious. Yet again, let me remind you that fully 50% of the people on this podcast do not even know how much money they make. So when I\u2019m on Twitter and some grizzled old financial advisor tells me that I\u2019m irresponsible for not talking about the technicalities of municipal versus corporate bonds, I just stare at this person knowing that half of the people who affirmatively apply to be on this podcast in front of millions of people talking about their own finances do not even know how much money they make.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:08] The bar is so much lower than people in the financial industry realize in terms of knowledge. But of course, you\u2019d only know that if you actually talk to everyday people. Do I have a bone to pick with the financial industry? You\u2019re goddamn right I do. Anyway, back to Cristina and Ron. Let\u2019s look at their numbers. They have $352,000 of assets, $83,800 in investments, 13,600 in savings, $497,000 in debt for a total net worth of negative $47,800.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:38]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0The debt is the first thing that I notice. It\u2019s a big debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What kind of debt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:46]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0The house and school are the big debts in there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much do you owe on the house?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:54]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Around 200.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. What is this life insurance? Is this whole life insurance, Cristina?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:01]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Whole and term.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh my God. What the fuck?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:04]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re putting 430 a month into this whole life insurance policy?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:11]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, for both of us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s a lot of money. All right. You have pet insurance? Is this for real?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:17]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0We do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You know what? I don\u2019t even know. Whatever. It\u2019s fine. All right. Your car payment is a $1,000 a month. What car is this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:27]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s two cars and two motorcycles.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm. Okay. That\u2019s a lot of cars for two people. How much are these motorcycles?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:38]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0The one motorcycle is just about to get paid off. I think there\u2019s only $2,000 worth that we owe on that. And then the other motorcycle is probably only 5,500 to 6,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Debt payments. 450, what is this debt payment?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:57]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the credit card that\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Huh?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:00]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0We have a credit card debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:02] How much? Right now about 30 of that is credit card.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a030,000 in credit card debt, how did this not come up before?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:12]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0There was a year that Ronnie was switching jobs, had five different jobs in one year, and so we weren\u2019t having a consistent income, and I wasn\u2019t established in my career yet, so we needed some way to make ends meet, and the credit card was the easiest thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is this the minimum, $450 a month?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:38]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. There\u2019s no interest on them right now because I balanced transfer them, but 30,000 is the whole lot of it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Let me just say, everybody sounds real calm about $30,000 of credit card debt. How come I\u2019m the one freaking out about this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:53]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not scared of debt. $200,000 of student loan, that\u2019s scary to me more than the 30,000-dollar credit card debt, and we\u2019ve paid off a lot from that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:05]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0We were probably at 50, and then it came down to 30.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ron, what do you think about that credit card debt?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:13]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0I hate it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really? You hate it? But you didn\u2019t even mention it when we were talking about the debt.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:19]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s just because it\u2019s all lumped into one, but the credit card debt, that\u2019s something that my parents got into trouble with when they weren\u2019t financially doing well.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right, let\u2019s keep going, but I\u2019ll just say that $30,000 of credit card debt is extreme red flag alert. Extreme. Your pet care is 500 bucks plus the 175. That\u2019s 675 a month plus probably some extra stuff you didn\u2019t counter. That\u2019s 700, 800 bucks a month for pets.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:54]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Domestic help, 380. Somebody to clean your place, is that what we\u2019re talking about?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:02]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, fine. And you have a vacation. Oh my God. Do you have a timeshare? Is this a joke? What is this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:11]\u00a0<strong>Cristina:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m going to let him take it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is this shit?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:16]\u00a0<strong>Ron:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it is\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the hell?<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I cannot believe this. If you\u2019re not watching this on YouTube, my jaw is literally dropped. Cristina and Ron came to me because she was concerned he wasn\u2019t taking finances seriously in their relationship. Now I find out they have $30,000 in credit card debt, which they seemingly are not even concerned about, and a timeshare. Oh, and two motorcycles, whole life insurance, and Noah\u2019s Ark full of pets.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:46] Just wait until you find out how the timeshare actually happened, which I will pick up on next week in part 2 of my conversation with Cristina and Ron. If you liked this episode and you want to hear another example of overspending, check out this fascinating episode with Sarah and Kevin in which she says, \u201cIf I add any more to our $50,000 of credit card debt, he will ask for a divorce.\u201d I\u2019ll see you over in that episode right now.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Meet Cristina and Ron. Cristina\u2019s 30, Ron is 45, and they\u2019ve been married for four years. Cristina wonders why she\u2019s the one managing money in their relationship, especially when Ron is older and he should be thinking about his retirement. We discover shocking surprises in their spending. This episode is brought to you by: LMNT [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118950","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118950","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118950"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118950\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118950"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118950"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}