{"id":118951,"date":"2023-10-03T17:33:50","date_gmt":"2023-10-03T21:33:50","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=118951"},"modified":"2025-04-07T10:05:16","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:05:16","slug":"124-bebe-paul","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/124-bebe-paul\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 124. \u201cWe make $113,500. Why do we feel poor?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe make $113,500. Why do we feel poor?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/7PNV0Snqfvc\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/4vTBkQKsgNoPPAFlk3zvlI\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>Bebe and Paul are 37 and 40. They have two young kids and in the last few years, they have moved about ten times for various family reasons. They\u2019re stuck in false narratives that are sinking their finances\u2014unable to recognize the long term negative effects of their actions.<\/p>\n<p><strong>This episode is brought to you by:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/joindeleteme.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0for 20% off.<\/p>\n<p>Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Masterclass | For unlimited access to every class and 15% off an annual membership, go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit\">https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit<\/a><\/strong>.<\/p>\n<p>Babbel | Right now, when you purchase a 3-month Babbel subscription, you\u2019ll get an additional 3 months for FREE. Just go to\u00a0<strong><a href=\"https:\/\/babbel.com\/\">https:\/\/Babbel.com<\/a><\/strong>\u00a0and use promo code RAMIT.<\/p>\n<h2><strong>Show Transcript<\/strong><\/h2>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/18vPefs4uLNdjzbV0QneAsePzG_AnlwrU\/view?usp=sharing\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:00]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels more like rut that we just can\u2019t get out of because climbing out of it is harder than trying to keep going. We have struggled for as long as we\u2019ve known each other. It\u2019s just been one of those things that we\u2019ve always done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What percentage your fixed costs?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:17]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Combined, 82%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s actually 94%. How do you pay your rent if you don\u2019t have the money for it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:24]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s late every month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:25]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Never more than 10 or so days, but it\u2019s always until the next paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:30]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s the whole paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:32]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And so we just keep going further and further.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:36]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0And then my paychecks get us through to the next week. That\u2019s the cycle we\u2019re in. It\u2019s horrible, and it doesn\u2019t make any sense. We make decent money. It shouldn\u2019t be this way. We just want to do better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wanting to do better is awesome. It\u2019s an awesome vision. It\u2019s an awesome goal. It\u2019s not enough.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:00:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Meet Bebe and Paul. Bebe is 37. Paul is 40, and they have two young children. In the last few years, they have moved about 10 times for various family reasons that you\u2019re going to hear in today\u2019s conversation. I have to tell you that I found today\u2019s conversation pretty confusing at times. I wasn\u2019t sure why they were stuck in this financial situation, but as I started to peel the onion, I asked a lot of questions. Some things became more clear. So stick with me as we go through today\u2019s conversation with Bebe and Paul.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:27]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We need a new mattress, so we went to mattress firm, got approved for a credit card, got a midline mattress. But I think Paul just ran with it, a Lowe\u2019s credit card and a Home Depot credit card. But it was all things that had been piling up that needed to be addressed, but he can say the same for the credit cards that I have.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How much did that mattress cost?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:48]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0$2,200.<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is that a lot or a little? What do you think about that number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:01:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s very midline for someone who has to take out a line of credit to get a decent mattress that\u2019s going to last, what, eight years\u2013, the recommended eight years. We\u2019ve never had a new mattress in our lives, knowing that we couldn\u2019t pay cash for it and being approved for a line of credit.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You couldn\u2019t pay cash because you didn\u2019t have enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:11]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Correct. Absolutely not. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Would you say that there are any other examples of that in your life, making short-term decisions that end up costing you a lot more?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:21]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, yeah. Everything is now. Everything is in the now for us.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you want to change that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:28]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I do. But at the same time, I don\u2019t want to be those people who don\u2019t enjoy life now because they\u2019re saving for something that may or may not happen in the future.<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul, what about you? What\u2019s a time recently where you were not on the same page financially speaking?<\/p>\n<p>[00:02:43]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I recently got a new job, started traveling just a little bit, making a little bit more money, but times were still really hard. It was still new. I was away, and they were home, and we had $0. I just felt so bad just because I couldn\u2019t do anything about it. So I Googled, I don\u2019t even remember what it was, but it was like, in five minutes, a loan. How much money can I get right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:13] Signed up for $750. I didn\u2019t think it was much. Got us through the week. I knew the payments were 200, and it was biweekly. And after about the sixth one, I was like, wait a minute. That $750 was paid off. Let me go back and look at that. And I looked at the interest rate, and I want to say it was something like 650%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:37]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0680.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:40]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. The total amount that we end up paying off, which our last payment gets made two days from now, will be $3,500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you borrowed 750. You paid off 3,500.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:53]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:03:55]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, that was detrimental. And we didn\u2019t even talk about it until two months ago or something, but in his defense, I didn\u2019t notice it, and we have one bank account. So that\u2019s on me too.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:07]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It was getting paid every two weeks, just like clockwork, and then other bills, other things were not getting paid because\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:15]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re getting neglected.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:16]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0We got behind in credit card payments. We got behind with pretty much everything, and it didn\u2019t seem to help us exactly where we were whenever I needed to get that loan. So all it did was push us further down the road in the wrong direction.<\/p>\n<p>[00:04:33]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I felt bad for him because I knew how guilty he felt. I also blame myself because I didn\u2019t catch it. I should have caught it on the bank account. We both need to be more vigilant on so many levels. And it\u2019s so simple. There are people with such more complicated situations with multiple bank accounts, with investments that they keep up with and everything, and we have one bank account. And if we can\u2019t keep up with that, then that\u2019s on us. But we make enough money. We make decent money for a middle-class family, and it shouldn\u2019t be this way, and it\u2019s detrimental to our kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How old are your kids?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:11]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Our son, Liam, is 11. He just started sixth grade. He has autism. It comes across as\u2013 he\u2019s very academically brilliant. Socially and emotionally, it\u2019s where it hits him the hardest. Our daughter Pearl, she\u2019s eight. She is a jock. She\u2019s not our academic, but anything sporty or socially, she\u2019s got it. So we have the yin and yang happening.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why are you deciding to try to change something now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:44]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Because their lives have been fraught with change. We have moved probably 10 times in Liam\u2019s life.<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:05:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0For many different circumstances. He was as surprised. When Paul and I met, I was a flight attendant for JetBlue. He was a touring musician. We saw each other in Austin, I don\u2019t know, two to four days a month, or something like that. And Liam happened. And obviously, that changed things, our way of life. Somebody had to come off the road.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:22] We moved to be closer to his mom in hopes that she could help, which was in the middle of nowhere. And then after he was born, we ended up moving back to Austin. Shortly after, my dad in Alabama, who was my person, was diagnosed with terminal brain cancer, and I stood up, quit my job, came home, and I said, Paul, we\u2019re moving to Alabama. My dad has terminal cancer. We need this time with him.<\/p>\n<p>[00:06:51] So we moved to Alabama for nine months, but it was difficult. We were on food stamps. We had our electricity turned off, all of that, but it was worth the time with my dad. But the reason we moved back to Texas is because his dad got diagnosed with lung cancer.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:06]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So we moved back to be closer to him, and we moved in with him, and they both ended up dying in the same year, in 2017.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sorry to hear that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:16]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s been a lot of things that have made us move, but looking back, it\u2019s always been for good reasons. There\u2019s never been any evictions or anything dramatic like that.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There are so many clues in just the first few minutes of our conversation. Now, first I have to acknowledge how much Bebe and Paul have been through to move 10 times, to have both their dads pass away, to have two children, including an autistic son. That is a lot. And I don\u2019t think any of us know how we would react in a similar situation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:07:53] I also noticed that they tell themselves certain stories. Did you catch it? When I asked what they think of buying a 2,000-dollar plus mattress, which I consider expensive, she said she considered it midline, even though they had to take a line of credit out to afford it. We\u2019re talking about a mattress. Later, Bebe said they were on food stamps and had their power turned off, but there wasn\u2019t anything dramatic like evictions.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bebe, what made you decide to fill out the application so that we could have this conversation?<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:31]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think because I know we can do better, and I know that with just even the most basic training, we can make things happen. It\u2019s just that we don\u2019t know. We have no clue how to invest, how to handle our money. Our neighbor across the street printed out our tax documents one year, and it was 40,000 for the year.<\/p>\n<p>[00:08:54] We were okay, and I don\u2019t know how because I wasn\u2019t really working. I was teaching Pilates a little bit, but nothing substantial. It just seems like we keep getting to the same level, no matter how much money we make. We were happy then, and then we were happy when he got another raise, and then when I started teaching at the schools here, we had more money coming in. And now we\u2019re at a point where we make decent money, but every time we get paid, it\u2019s all gone already. We just don\u2019t know how to handle it. We just have ourselves in a vicious cycle that is never-ending.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:35]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p>[00:09:35]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I was going to it feels more like a rut that we just can\u2019t get out of because we feel like climbing out of it is harder than trying to keep going in it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sounds pretty reasonable. Is that true for most people?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:52]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m sure. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s easier to keep doing what you\u2019ve been doing than to make a complete change of your lifestyle?<\/p>\n<p>[00:09:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0But we\u2019ve been in this cycle of conversation. We do it every few months. We have this cyclical conversation. We\u2019ve got to change. We\u2019ve got to figure out our budget. We\u2019ve got to learn some investing strategies, but life is just so moment to moment, slammed busy, that we don\u2019t have time to dig in, and we need someone, something, to spark it and make us move.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, I can\u2019t make you do anything. That\u2019s a fact.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:31]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Encourage.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I can encourage you, but\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:35]<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:35]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We just don\u2019t know where to start. We\u2019ve tried creating a budget, and then we\u2019re like, I don\u2019t even know what is coming in or going out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So you started creating a budget. How long did it last?<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:49]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Never.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:51]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No days.<\/p>\n<p>[00:10:52]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I created a budget, but that budget was more of an expense tracker. That\u2019s why it didn\u2019t really work, because there was just so many small things. A day goes by, you\u2019re like, oh, I\u2019ve spent $100. And if you do that five, six times a week, that\u2019s $600 on what? I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:15]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We just want to live. I don\u2019t want to think about buying my kid a candy bar at CVS when I\u2019m picking up a prescription and thinking about where I need to put that on my list or whatever. I just want to buy her the candy bar, buy him the candy bar, buy him the donuts because they didn\u2019t get to go on a fucking vacation this summer, like everyone else, and they\u2019re going to go to school the first day, and everyone\u2019s going to be like, I went to Hawaii. I went to do this, and they\u2019re going to be like, oh, I stayed home. We got COVID.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe you don\u2019t need to track the price of a candy bar. Is that possible?<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think that I need to write things down in my freaking checkbook. I want to not have to think about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:11:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So how should it work then if you don\u2019t think about it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:00]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Because we\u2019re not extravagant people, and we don\u2019t spend on frivolous things, it should be okay for us to go to the Mexican restaurant down the street for happy hour night when a dish is $6.99<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Is it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:18]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s not right now. No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what\u2019s going on?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:22]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t know. I mean, we do know. We know that it\u2019s us both nickel and diming our bank account to death and not collaborating with each other about what we\u2019re doing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What does that mean, nickel and diming ourselves to death?<\/p>\n<p>[00:12:35]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Klarna and Afterpay. Oh, hey, I bought these little Lululemon pants for work. That\u2019s him. Not me. On Afterpay. So we\u2019re going to pay monthly for that. All these tiny things building up, all these credit cards that he and I have building up, and before we realize it, all of these monthly payments are his entire paycheck, and we can\u2019t afford rent. But in the moment, our son had a great birthday party. He got what was on his list, which was simple things. And then our daughter, she had her birthday, and she got what she wanted, which was simple.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you think that that would be considered the same as spending extravagantly on stuff?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:22]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Kind of interesting.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:26]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0In your book, you said, if you can\u2019t afford to pay off a credit card in the same month that you rack up the charges, you can\u2019t afford a credit card, and that was eye-opening for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:37]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No one ever told me that. Yeah. I am telling you, we are so bottom line basic when it comes to finances that you have to talk to us like toddlers.<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. What does that mean, bottom line basic?<\/p>\n<p>[00:13:53]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We have no clue. We\u2019ve never invested. We don\u2019t know what that looks like. We don\u2019t know what that means. We don\u2019t know the terms. We don\u2019t know anything. We don\u2019t know the first thing about investing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:09]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0We have struggled for as long as we\u2019ve known each other. It\u2019s just been one of those things that we\u2019ve always done. The solution for someone who, like she says, doesn\u2019t know any better seems to be, spend less.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What if you did that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:26]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Right. And that should be easy to do, but for some reason, we get back in that rut of, we do the things we want to do before the things that we have to do, and then we get to the things that we have to do, and we don\u2019t have the money to do those things.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What\u2019s an example of something you have to do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:50]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Rent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:51]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Bills, rent.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:51]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Bills, yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wait, how do you pay your rent if you don\u2019t have the money for it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:55]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s late every month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, that\u2019s not good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:14:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Luckily, our neighbor is the owner\u2019s son, and the property management company is very lenient with us, but we pay late fees every month. So that\u2019s money down the drain.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:12]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Never more than 10 or so days, but it\u2019s always until the next paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:17]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s the whole paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:19]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And so we just keep going further and further.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:23]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0And then my paychecks get us through to the next week. That\u2019s the cycle we\u2019re in. It\u2019s horrible, and it doesn\u2019t make any sense. We make decent money. It shouldn\u2019t be this way.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Narrative number two. We\u2019re simple people. We don\u2019t really spend money on anything extravagant. Followed by narrative number three. We don\u2019t know anything about money. We\u2019ve struggled for money as long as we\u2019ve known each other. It\u2019s all we\u2019ve known.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:49]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0My dad carried cash and wrote checks until the day he died.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What year was your dad born in?<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:53]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a01947.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I wonder if anything has changed since then.<\/p>\n<p>[00:15:57]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, things have. My parents actually owned roller skating centers most of my life, which when they divorced, my mom took them over and had this roller skating empire across Alabama and Georgia for my whole life, basically, until I was 18.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Cool.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:12]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It was cool.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0How good of a roller skater are you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:14]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m pretty damn good. I grew up very wealthy. We had a penthouse on the beach in Destin. We had a lake house on Lake Martin in Alabama. We had a huge house, multiple skate centers. We were well known in society in our hometown, like country clubbers, all that stuff. Fast forward till I was 16 or 17, massive spiral. My parents divorced when I was six. My mom had multiple husbands, multiple step-siblings that involved just uncomfortable things. And then she hit an ultimate spiral and is now homeless.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh my gosh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:16:57]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Despite everything. And when my dad died, in their divorce decree in 1992, he said she could remain the beneficiary on his life insurance policy. Should anything happen to him, that his money would get paid out to his minor children. So she discovered that because we were no longer minors at the time, she could keep it, which she did.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:20]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Almost $700,000. That was 2017. And we\u2019re here now. And the last I heard she was arrested at Walmart for shoplifting, and she\u2019s homeless.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wow.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:33]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So quite the financial journey for me personally.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:37]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So she took the $700,000 from the life insurance in 2017?<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:45]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And it\u2019s gone.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:47]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. My stepmom got nothing, and she went through breast cancer right after as well, after my dad died.<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:56]<\/p>\n<p>[00:17:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sorry. That\u2019s extremely tragic.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:00]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It is, but you know what? She was who she was my whole life. So when people apologize, I\u2019m like, you know what? It tracks. She is who she was.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:10]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And I assume you do not have a relationship with her anymore.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:14]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh no. Actually, I told her in 2014, when she sued him for back child support after his first brain surgery, that I would never speak to her again if she went through with it. And I figured out how to file pro se to fight her, whatever. She won. He lost his house. He and my stepmom had to move. It was a whole thing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You filed pro se and went through with it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:42]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I did. I learned how, and then she threatened to throw me in jail for, uh, practicing law without a license. That was great.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Very impressive that you learned how to file for yourself. That\u2019s not easy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:18:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0He couldn\u2019t do it, so somebody had to. She\u2019s vicious, and she still won.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And when you said you grew up wealthy, it sounds like you grew up extremely wealthy. What were some of the messages that you remember about money as a child? What did you learn from your family?<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:16]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So that\u2019s the conflicting thing, is I never cared about any of it. I just wanted to be with my friends and have a normal family, and I never did. It was always constant drama and not being comfortable in my own home. She would send us to our penthouse in Destin with her nanny, and I just wanted to be home. I hated all of it, but I also liked the bragging rights back then.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Ah. Bragging about what? Give me an example.<\/p>\n<p>[00:19:40]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Like I got to go to the beach in the summer, or just being able to stand up to comparisons. I don\u2019t know. I guess I don\u2019t want my kids to be the have nots and for them to feel less than because of that. And the school that my daughter goes to is in an area that\u2019s just not even real. Everyone has.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:06]<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you feel like the two of you are have nots?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:10]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And how about for your kids? Do you feel like they\u2019re have nots?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:15]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, because they don\u2019t know that, but I think it\u2019s unfair to them if we don\u2019t build something for them. Oh, I didn\u2019t even say this. I lived in the back of the roller skating center, the original roller skating center until I was five.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Really?<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:33]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0They made an apartment in the back of it in Auburn, Alabama, and that\u2019s where we lived, so I would walk out onto the skate floor like my playground.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Whoa, that\u2019s cool.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:41]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It was really cool.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s amazing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:45]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It was a cool life.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:20:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I have to tell you, this is one of the reasons that I love these conversations, because it would be easy to be listening to this and screaming, how could you take a loan out to buy a mattress? But on this show, we have the luxury of time. I get to spend hours with couples like this to understand how they grew up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:06] And suddenly you start to see a different side of Bebe\u2019s spending. She grew up extremely wealthy, yes, but she also suffered many tragedies. One of my goals with this show is to help us all understand the peculiar ways in which we behave with money. Hearing Bebe\u2019s history isn\u2019t meant to justify her actions, but I think it helps all of us understand them just a little better. Now let\u2019s talk to Paul about how he grew up with money.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:21:34]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0We never had the money to do whatever I asked for. If I wanted a drum set, oh, it\u2019s too expensive. Or wanted to play football, oh, we don\u2019t have the money for pads. I didn\u2019t go without food, clothes, that sort of thing. The basic necessities, I wasn\u2019t deprived. Um, I wasn\u2019t unhappy, but we just didn\u2019t have money. Money was always, uh, shortcomings, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When you look back, would you call the way you grew up middle-class, lower middle-class, working class, poor?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:11]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I would say lower middle-class.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you remember about your mom and stepdad talking about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:19]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It was always a, uh, not taboo, but it wasn\u2019t discussed with- I was the child. It was off limits.<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Let\u2019s skip through your adolescence. You become a young adult in your 20s. What changes with money for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:22:38]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I went to college, got into some trouble, had to move back home after the first year, stayed for a bit, then moved back away to all my friends, uh, in college and got some student loans with the help of my mom, and lived on that. Got in a band and used my student loan money to buy a guitar.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh, hold on. How much did you have in student loans?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:06]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I think total was $32,000.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And did you end up ever graduating?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:11]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. 32 000. Do you still have those loans? Did you pay them back?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:15]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0No, there\u2019s still about $4,000 left.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:20]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0His mom and stepdad got in this huge fight about the student loans.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:25]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:27]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0My mom signed up for the student loan as a co-signer for me. I didn\u2019t even know she was doing it. She wanted me to go to college with my friends. That was her way to do it because they didn\u2019t have the money to send me down there. And so I think she did it without my stepdad knowing. And then he found out a little bit later and just exploded.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:47]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a020 years later, she\u2019s still paying it off?<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:50]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:23:50]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul, do you see any similarities with the action that your mom took and the action that you took when you were traveling? What connection, if any, do you see between those two behaviors?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:02]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0An emotional decision without thinking about it. An impulse. Trying to fix a situation without thinking about it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. And what was the emotion behind each of those decisions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:15]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Love.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:16]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. I want to help the person I love. I feel bad for them. I want to give them something.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:22]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what was the consequence of that decision? The long-term consequence?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:28]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, the consequence, I don\u2019t even want to begin. How much is that? A $100 a month for 20 years.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:38]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And what about for you, making that decision to take out $750 of loan?<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:48]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel shame.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:24:54]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s very shameful to admit that, oh my gosh, I can\u2019t believe I did that. Because you hear somebody on a podcast like this talking about that, like, oh my gosh, why would you do that? But you get in that situation, and it\u2019s like, oh my gosh, I did exactly what I shouldn\u2019t have done.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you articulated that you and your mom both made an impulsive decision out of a seemingly positive emotion. I love them. I want to help them. Probably didn\u2019t understand what co-signing means or what that highly damn-near extortionate interest rate meant. And then finally, the consequence was you both ended up spending thousands and thousands of dollars on something you never imagined you would. Can you foresee a future, roughly seven years from now, where both of you see your son going off to college, you don\u2019t have the money saved, and what do you do?<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Repeat the cycle.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:25:59]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, we\u2019d start figuring out a way to get a loan.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:02]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. So the pattern will repeat.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:04]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It will.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You will do it out of love, but ultimately, it will not be a loving action.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:11]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So this is interesting because I have been really highly focused on breaking the cycle as far as growing up under a narcissistic mother. Her mother was a narcissist, and they\u2019re very much alike, and the catastrophic damage they caused to anyone they touched in their path was just astronomical. I\u2019ve been focused on that aspect of it and not the financial aspect of it, which is awakening for me because I\u2019ve been so hyper focused on that for myself that we\u2019ve never addressed it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you ready to?<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:53]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:26:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. How about we take a look at the numbers, and then I want to come back to you? I want to hear what you think. What do you say?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:02]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, this is going to get real interesting real fast.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:05]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So let\u2019s keep in mind that you have mentioned you\u2019re late on rent, essentially most months. And I want to contextualize that as we go through this. By the way, did you two do the conscious spending plan together?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:20]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What was that like?<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:23]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It was pretty easy.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Anybody listening, go to the link in my show notes. That\u2019s how a CSP works.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:30]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I really think that we both needed a common task, common goal, which is this, what we\u2019re doing here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:40]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0The pressure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:41]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, you needed me to be like, I\u2019m going to show up and talk to Ramit, and we better have our shit on paper.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:47]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Last night, I literally said to Paul, I hope he rips us a new one. So whatever you need to do. We need to be scolded.<\/p>\n<p>[00:27:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No. Wrong. I\u2019m going to tell you right now\u2013 okay, let\u2019s take your daughter. What does she, ride a bike? Do you scold her if she\u2019s not riding the bike correctly?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:08]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, that\u2019s so weird. And she loves it, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:13]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But why don\u2019t you scold her? Because that\u2019s what you want me to do to you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:17]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Fair comparison. Because we\u2019re adults. It\u2019s embarrassing. He\u2019s 40. I\u2019m 37. We shouldn\u2019t be where we are. It\u2019s embarrassing.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I understand that, but you are here, and the same principles of getting you to actually love talking about money and to actually have a joint vision that\u2019s exciting to you, that doesn\u2019t come from scolding.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:41]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you intuitively know this because that\u2019s how you raise your kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:47]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So don\u2019t turn it around and ask me to scold you because I don\u2019t do it, and it doesn\u2019t work.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Fair. See, that\u2019s how pathetic we are.<\/p>\n<p>[00:28:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, it\u2019s not pathetic. It\u2019s that there hasn\u2019t been a compelling reason for you to do this yet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:03]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Or we\u2019re just terrified to address it.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0This is a very childlike approach to behavior change. The idea that they need someone to scold them, to call them on their shit. That\u2019s the kind of thing children believe. What\u2019s really going on here is that they are trying to delegate authority to someone else, in this case, me, and they\u2019re pulling the innocent doe technique, saying, us, little old us, Paul and Bebe, just simple people, we don\u2019t know what we\u2019re doing wrong. We need a big strong adult to come in here and tell us what to do.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:38] That\u2019s not my approach. And when you start trying to change with the wrong expectations, you\u2019re doomed to fail. This is like someone who hires a coach and says, I want to make a million dollars next month. You are not going to succeed. Or you want to lose 50 pounds in two months. Not going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:29:57] I have to tell you, I\u2019m honestly puzzled by Bebe and Paul. They are unlike any couple I\u2019ve met before. I\u2019m hoping that looking through their numbers is going to shed a little light on what\u2019s going on here. Their assets, 12,000. Investments, 6,000. Savings, 0. Debt, 10,000, and their total net worth is $8,000.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So together you make, can you read that number out?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:23]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0113,445.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you think about that number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:30]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It feels good.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:32]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a lot of money.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:34]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it should be adequate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are you actually proud that you have a household income of $113,000?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:42]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What does it mean to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:30:45]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0$100,000 was a mark for so long. I think it\u2019s probably dated. I\u2019m showing my age. I never would have dreamed of paying $2,000 a month in rent because I remember in 1997, my dad had a 3,500 square foot house with a pool and everything, and he paid $1,500 a month. And so I kept that mentality of, oh, once I\u2019m able to pay $1,500 a month\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I made it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:19]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I made it. Exactly. Once you make a $100,000 a year, yeah, life is easy, but I\u2019m learning that it\u2019s not quite.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I agree. I agree. Times have definitely changed. Housing is very expensive, but I am struck that we started that Q&amp;A just now with me asking you, what is it feel like, and you said proud, and then it ended with you basically being depressed.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:46]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you notice that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:48]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Potentially, is that a recurring pattern when you talk about money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:52]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, absolutely.<\/p>\n<p>[00:31:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. Bebe\u2019s over there nodding her head. If you both cannot feel good about money, then you will never want to actually work on it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:09]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think the reason that we don\u2019t feel good about it despite this being an astronomical amount to us, that we never thought we would really reach, is the reason that we have reached out and the reason that we\u2019re here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m glad you did. I\u2019m really glad you did. And you could see this desire to almost escape from money in several different ways. Would you say escape would be a word that characterizes the way you treat money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:41]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Absolutely. It\u2019s like I said before. We\u2019re very simple. We don\u2019t require much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:32:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re not that simple. You have a 2,000-dollar mattress. You have stuff you spend on, Lululemon, etc. That\u2019s a nice brand. I think that\u2019s a narrative you tell yourself. We\u2019re not extra. Yeah, you don\u2019t live in a country club like you used to, but you\u2019re not that simple. Maybe it\u2019s time to turn the page on that. All right. The rent is $2,250. I added up your utilities as well, so that\u2019s about 24% of your gross income. What do you think about that number?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:27]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think it\u2019s astronomical, but we have been in this house for four and a half years and they should have raised our rent several hundred dollars by now. We shouldn\u2019t still be here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why do you think it\u2019s astronomical?<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:40]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know, friends from back home, but that\u2019s in Auburn, Alabama. They\u2019re like, holy crap, my mortgage is $800.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I just say something? If you want to turn a new page in your financial book in your life, it might be time to stop listening to people who have no idea what they\u2019re talking\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:33:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Because you\u2019re literally being guided by ghosts, and also people who live in a completely different place.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:03]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re actually doing a very good job with your housing costs. It\u2019s shocking because these days, almost everybody is exceeding that number. You\u2019re doing great. So I\u2019m going to take the win. I\u2019ll give you a round of applause on that. 24%, very good. Don\u2019t move. You got a great thing going. And then what is this MoneyLion thing?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:24]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s like a credit card that you have to pay back because you connect it to an auto pay account, so you can pull out 50, 100, $20 at a time with pretty much little to no interest unless you need it quick, which we usually do. So my line of credit with MoneyLion right now is 875, and I don\u2019t remember the last month that we haven\u2019t had to use it. So for every $100, it\u2019s $8 to deposit it\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What the fuck?<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Into your account.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What? Say that again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I know. I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Say it again.<\/p>\n<p>[00:34:58]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0For every $100, it\u2019s $8. So if I take out $870, yeah, it\u2019s a lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Do you understand what that means? Does that seem like a lot to you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:12]<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:12]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0But this is the cycle. Yes, absolutely. We have talked about this every month. We\u2019ve got to get out of the cycle of the MoneyLion. We\u2019ve got to stop using this. But when it comes down to buying groceries and milk, we don\u2019t have a choice.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I understand that It feels like that, and I understand that you\u2019re making a choice and simply kicking the can down the road, but you need to buy groceries. I get that. You said a second ago that this is like a credit card, but it has no interest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:45]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, no set interest rate.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s definitely interest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:50]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Crazy interest.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:53]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0For people like us, and that\u2019s how they get you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Exactly.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, I know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:35:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0If you money fast, you\u2019re going to get fucked.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:00]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I know. I know. And it\u2019s a cycle that we\u2019re in that we need to get out of and we can\u2019t find our way out.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:06]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Let\u2019s get out of it. I\u2019m going to help you get out of it. This is driving me insane.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0 What the hell is MoneyLion? I\u2019d never even heard of it before. And if you look at the pricing page, even for a guy like me who does this for a living, it all seems so simple, so friendly. It\u2019s only when you go deeper that you realize this is a financial trap. Do not use Moneylion or anything like it.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And can you read me the number\u2013 what percentage are your fixed costs?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:36]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Combined, 82%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a082%. What number should that be?<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:40]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I have no idea.<\/p>\n<p>[00:36:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, the number is 50 to 60%. You\u2019re at 82. So if you want to know why you feel anxious over a candy bar, if you want to know why you\u2019re late on rent, if you want to know all of it. It tracks to this category right here. That\u2019s it. That\u2019s a simple answer right there. Excuse me, I just realized there\u2019s a mistake in this. I don\u2019t know why this isn\u2019t translating, but it\u2019s not 82% because, watch, we need to add a $1,000 here. It\u2019s actually 94%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:13]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you are losing money every single month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:19]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:20]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I can\u2019t imagine spending 750 on groceries versus a 1,000. You know what I mean? I can\u2019t imagine taking some cell phone lines away or that sort of thing. I already feel like with certain things we\u2019re at the bare minimum.<\/p>\n<p>[00:37:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re not. You\u2019re not at the bare minimum. Not even close. You\u2019re wearing an Apple watch. Every single person in your family has a phone. You\u2019re not even close to the bare minimum. Not on the income you currently have. So I would like for you to ask deeper questions, rather than just, how do we quickly get rid of this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:02] Which is impulsive and is going to end you back up in the same situation. The question I would love to hear is, how did we end up getting into this situation with 82% fixed costs? What choices did we make that brought us here? And what, if anything, are we willing to change if we want to get out of it? Do you notice about the difference of questions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:37]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0A lot.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:40]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0But I also feel like we\u2019re already living\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Are we going back into your story right now? Can you stick with my question? What do you notice about\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:38:49]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I am. I understand the question. I just feel like we\u2019re already living below. I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t know what we would want to get rid of.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Just a quick reminder that the reason I\u2019m such a stickler for 50 to 60% fixed costs is that once you elevate something to a fixed cost, a nice house, or a car, or even your grocery spend, it is extremely difficult to cut back. You hear it every single week on this podcast. Couples will come on here spending literally 70 or 80% of their take-home pay on fixed costs and then be completely bewildered at how to reduce it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:34] That\u2019s because people cannot imagine having to sell a car, or cut back on groceries, or even downsize their house. Now, the ideal situation is to never get into this scenario in the first place. But sometimes that can\u2019t be avoided. So we have to understand why. Why did they get into this situation in the first place so that they don\u2019t get back into it again?<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:39:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul\u2019s question and yours was, what do we get rid of? What I\u2019m saying is what I wish you ask is, how did we get here? What choices did we make? And what, if anything, are we willing to change? What is the difference in those two questions?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:17]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s super hard to answer. I feel like they\u2019re intertwined. We got here because of the decisions that we made.<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0The difference is that you\u2019re looking for simple, easy answer to strip something away, and you\u2019re already telling me all the reasons you can\u2019t do it. Like, oh, I feel like we\u2019re already cut to the bone and we don\u2019t do anything, etc. We\u2019re simple people. That\u2019s getting you nowhere. You\u2019re putting yourself into a cul-de-sac where you can never get out of it. And what I\u2019m asking you to answer are some really deep questions. They go way beyond some, can we cut off $100 off our groceries?<\/p>\n<p>[00:40:58]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And that\u2019s why we\u2019re here.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul, what do you notice about the difference? I can see you nodding over there.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:04]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I understand, I guess, both sides, but I don\u2019t know what the answer\u2013 I don\u2019t even know where start.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:12]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0But I\u2019m not even asking you to answer them. I\u2019m just asking you what\u2019s the difference between the two sets of questions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:17]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, it\u2019s a quick, easy fix versus taking out the long-term.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I think you two have been thinking short-term for so long that you have lost the ability to even think beyond the next week.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:37]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s absolutely true.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And each time I try to gently get you to stretch to look just 10 feet further, it\u2019s so much more comfortable for you to go right back into your story.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s just because that\u2019s what we\u2019ve done and what we\u2019ve known for so long.<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And is it working?<\/p>\n<p>[00:41:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No. And that\u2019s why I applied. It\u2019s not working at all. I\u2019m tired of surviving. I want to live. I want to build. I want to grow. I want to leave something for my kids, and I want to learn how, and I don\u2019t know how.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You can notice that Bebe and Paul are problem-oriented right now but not solution-oriented. As I\u2019ve always said, people with problems love to talk about their problems. But until they\u2019re ready to talk solutions, nothing will change. I spent a lot more time working through their fixed costs, so let me just summarize.<\/p>\n<p>[00:42:34] In two months, their debt payment goes down by 400 bucks. We temporarily removed that MoneyLion BS. We factored in that their AC bill is going to go down after summer. Now their fixed costs went down to 77%. You\u2019re going to hear me really push them to come up with solutions. And deep down, what they want is for me to fix their finances for them. But that\u2019s not what I do. The key is for them to take the responsibility to make the changes on their own. Listen in.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s high, but it\u2019s not in the 80s. I\u2019ll take that as a win.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:09]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I feel good just narrowing it down and focusing in on every little nuance instead of being paralyzed by all of it in your face at one time.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We need to get this down to 60%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:23]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So you tell me how you want to do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:43:26]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I made a list recently of charges that we were being charged for an embarrassing amount of time for things that we\u2019re not even using, reoccurring charges, like ESPN through Roku, or something like that. I made a list, and I disputed most of them either through the bank, or canceled them, or figured out how the hell we were subscribed to them, which is half the battle. I got through that list pretty well. I think I recovered 450 bucks just doing that. Just looking back at how long we\u2019ve been paying them was shocking.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re on your iPhone. They\u2019re on your cable. They\u2019re everywhere, and they just stay with you forever. All right. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:10]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I can cancel my gym membership that\u2019s $79.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. What\u2019s next?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:18]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Figure out the phone thing. There\u2019s a better option somewhere. I\u2019ve heard your ads.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Why don\u2019t you just do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:25]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Was it Mint?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:27]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So it\u2019s supposed to be $15 per line, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:31]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0So if we get rid of Liam\u2019s watch, we have three phones, three watches.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:40]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You guys are broke. You can\u2019t have three Apple watches. It\u2019s just not going to happen.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I can give mine up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sell it. Can you do that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:44:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. Great. Love that. Great answer. So you\u2019re going to sell a watch, maybe two. You\u2019re going to save. First of all, you\u2019re going to make a little bit of money. Second, you\u2019re going to save on the monthly recurring. That\u2019s great. So let\u2019s take this number down to what? Pick a number.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:13]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Go for it, babe.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:14]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I don\u2019t even know what\u2019s ridiculous. Is a $100 ridiculous?<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:21]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Why don\u2019t we switch it? Let\u2019s make it a 100 bucks, and then you two can see if you can get around there. I think you could. You may have to cut some stuff. You\u2019re going to have to search, use the ad that you mentioned, uh, Mint Mobile, sponsor here on the show. Let\u2019s see. A 100 bucks, and it may turn out that somebody who had certain access may not be able to have that anymore, or somebody who had a watch definitely does not have a watch anymore. That\u2019s life. There\u2019s a vision behind this, by the way. You\u2019re not just taking things away arbitrarily.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:53]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. We just want to do better.<\/p>\n<p>[00:45:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wanting to do better is awesome. It\u2019s an awesome vision. It\u2019s an awesome goal. It\u2019s not enough.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:03]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh no, that\u2019s why we\u2019re here. We need help,<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:07]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m helping you by asking you what changes you\u2019re willing to make. I\u2019m going to put these numbers back up on screen. You\u2019re at 76%. Get me down to 60%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:24]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0$870 is getting paid to MoneyLion.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And then what happens to that money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:36]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Refreshed, like, oh, it\u2019s back. You can borrow it again if you need to.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m so confused.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:44]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s a payday loan, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:46]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Technically. Pretty much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:48]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0You get the advanced money from your paycheck, and then when your paycheck gets deposited\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It takes it from your paycheck.<\/p>\n<p>[00:46:55]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0It comes and takes it out, takes out what you borrowed with an interest rate, I guess.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes, definitely an interest rate. So you\u2019re using that money for day-to-day expenses, paying rent, paying bills. You\u2019re making zero progress on the credit card, correct?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:16]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Right.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. So that debt is going another example of making short-term decisions and actually incurring way bigger costs that you may never get out of.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:24]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can I just point out something really honestly?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:28]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. You got $10,000 in credit card debt that\u2019s going up. You got a mattress that\u2019s more expensive than the mattress I sleep on. You have how many cell phones, four, in the house that are all brand new?<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Three.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:48]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Three.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Three.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:50]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0They\u2019re not all brand new. Mine\u2019s a year old.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, okay.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:54]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. We stay on top of technology where we can.<\/p>\n<p>[00:47:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s one way to put it. Remember when you told me that we\u2019re simple people? You still believe that, Bebe?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:07]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What are you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:14]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, we like nice technology, I guess, but\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:20]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Keep going.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:20]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess when it comes to\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Hold on. You like nice technology. I agree. What else do you like nice things of?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:30]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Streaming services.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:31]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:32]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Groceries.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:33]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. A lot, actually. I might restate my story. If I were being really honest and I were in your situation, I might just say, we spend way above our means, and we don\u2019t know how to say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:49]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s absolutely fair.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:51]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s a 100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:48:53]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, okay, but that\u2019s a 180-degree difference than we\u2019re simple people, and we don\u2019t understand where the money\u2019s going.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:02]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We don\u2019t understand where the money\u2019s going. And in comparison to everyone else around us, and our peers, and our children\u2019s friends, we are the poor people.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:14]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Maybe you are, and I hate to hear that. And I would like for you to get out of that. The reason that you are stuck and every month it\u2019s getting worse and worse is the debt payments. The reason you have the debt payments is what?<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:31]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Because of us. Because of our dumb decisions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Impulsive decisions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:35]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Inability to say no.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:38]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Big and small.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:39]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Candy bars to credit cards.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And telling yourself a story that it\u2019s actually not that bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:46]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, no, we know it\u2019s bad.<\/p>\n<p>[00:49:48]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0No, you don\u2019t. In fact, you\u2019re doing it right now. You don\u2019t. Because when you come and say, oh, we\u2019re simple, and we don\u2019t know where the money\u2019s going, and we just need to sit down and make a budget, that\u2019s actually not being honest with yourselves.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:08]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. And that\u2019s fair. I think it also shows how clueless we are financially.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You love to live there, in that story and that narrative.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:20]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s 100% true, for sure.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul, did you catch that?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:25]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I did, and I don\u2019t know if I\u2019ve ever really noticed it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:28]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. I want you to know how to manage money. You\u2019ve read my book, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:35]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:36]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Talk to me about what that was like. I\u2019m impressed that you read it. That\u2019s awesome. A lot of people come on this, they\u2019ve never read the book, so I give you major props for that.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:43]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Thanks.<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:43]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you make any changes after reading it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I did make notes.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[00:50:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Bebe is playing the innocent doe technique. When I point something out, she immediately agrees. I know. We\u2019re clueless. We just don\u2019t know anything. We make dumb decisions. It\u2019s her unconscious way of escaping from having to actually change. But innocent doe doesn\u2019t work on me. It would be a disservice for me to allow her to use that technique, which by the way, she doesn\u2019t even realize she\u2019s employing to squirm away from making changes. And change is what she actually wants to make.<\/p>\n<p>[Interview]<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:23]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess we\u2019re so aloof to the whole thing we don\u2019t even realize when we are, and it takes someone like you, that\u2019s like, wait, God, you\u2019re doing it again. We had no idea.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0One way to know is, when you talk about money, do you ever get anywhere?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:38]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Why?<\/p>\n<p>[00:51:43]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think we just give up, and we do this. We do this like every few months. We\u2019ll sit down, and we\u2019re like, okay, we\u2019re going to figure this out, and then we get to a point where, I don\u2019t even know. We just give up.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:00]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0The groceries is the outlier.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:05]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We need to focus. We need to be more focused, and make a list, and buy a bunch of what we know we\u2019re going to need. Especially with the kids with us it\u2019d be like, mom, dad, can I have this? Bottom line, we got to tell our daughter because she goes with whoever\u2019s going, and then if you say no, she begs. And then most of the time, just to get her to shut up, it\u2019s like, fine.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:29]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And can you just play that out for me? You tell her no, she begs, you give in, and then what happens as she becomes 16, 18, 20 years old.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:37]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I know. It\u2019s a thing that we\u2019ve discussed at length, that we\u2019re creating a monster.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, do you do anything about it?<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We try, and then we\u2019re just suckers. I\u2019m meaner than you are, I think.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:56]<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:56]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. A 100%.<\/p>\n<p>[00:52:59]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re literally late with rent every single month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:02]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:04]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And you\u2019re worried about being mean to your eight-year-old daughter by telling her no and teaching her the importance of you have an amount you can spend at the grocery store? It just doesn\u2019t add up for me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:17]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. I think for me, I am really paranoid about them developing any\u2013 I don\u2019t know. I feel like we talk about money in front of them too much, and they are way too aware or nervous that we don\u2019t have enough of things. And I don\u2019t want that to be something on their minds.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Oh, you want to shield them from it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:43]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Uh-huh. So don\u2019t talk about money because money is always negative.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, pretty much.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And then, take care of stuff. You go to college and be a kid. Am I getting this right so far?<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think, for me, yes.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Paul is really smiling. Uh-huh.<\/p>\n<p>[00:53:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Because I never had that. Everything was always fraught with holding it over your head or like you owe me something.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:09]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. And then as they go to college, if they do, and they become in their early 20s, how do they figure out how to navigate the world of money?<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:17]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I hope that we\u2019re better equipped to teach them than either of us were taught. I just don\u2019t want them to ever think that we don\u2019t have enough, or that we\u2019re less than.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:26]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You don\u2019t have enough. You\u2019re losing money every single month.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:30]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, and that\u2019s on us, and that\u2019s our fault, but it\u2019s not fair to them to take that on their shoulders. But that brings me back to the fact that there\u2019s so many lessons that we need to learn. We can\u2019t lead by example without knowing what we\u2019re doing. Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:54:45]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So I hope you can see that if you want to change the way that your money is behaving, you\u2019re going to have to dramatically change so many parts of the way that you live. It\u2019s the grocery shopping. It\u2019s the phones. It\u2019s the idea that kids get to dictate what they get at age 8 or 11, versus parents setting a vision for the family and leading.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:15]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It is. A vision is something that we do not do. We\u2019ve always been very now, now, now.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:23]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So now we\u2019re going back to the numbers, and now you\u2019re going to tell me what you want to do. I\u2019m not going to drag it out of you. You tell me,<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:31]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, at that rate, that\u2019s extremely eye-opening, and it\u2019s worth canceling pretty much anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:41]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s nothing that we can cancel besides subscriptions.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:46]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019m not sure you have a powerful enough vision for wanting to get out of this. The way you talk about it is like, oh, we got to do better. That\u2019s going to last about two days.<\/p>\n<p>[00:55:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, that\u2019s for sure. I don\u2019t think that we\u2019ve ever allowed ourselves to have a vision of where we want to be and how we\u2019re going to do it.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What is the vision then? Tell me. I\u2019d love to hear it. I want to hear. What is the rich life for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:14]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t think we know that yet.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Want to do it right now?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:19]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Sure. To take our kids on a vacation.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. Where do you want to take them?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:24]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Legoland.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Perfect.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:26]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Right by you.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Perfect. You want to take them to Legoland. Great. And when do you want to do this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:35]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. Tomorrow, if we could, but setting an actual goal\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Can we start with something a little more modest? Because a Legoland trip to California probably costs thousands of dollars when you factor\u2013 I don\u2019t mind it, and I love that dream, but what I actually\u2013<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:54]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Galveston. Just Galveston.<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:56]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And how long is this trip?<\/p>\n<p>[00:56:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019d say three days. Four days.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Sometime to be away from home, sometime to surround yourself in a different environment, see some different things, relax a little bit, have some dinners out, like that. Bebe, what do you think hearing this vision?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:22]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I\u2019m trying not to cry.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:25]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Tell me why.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:29]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0It\u2019s just been so far-fetched for us, and it\u2019s not fair to the kids.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Far-fetched to dream about something like this?<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:42]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, not to dream about it, but not to be able to do anything.<\/p>\n<p>[00:57:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0When you start thinking about a trip to Galveston, what comes up for you?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:00]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Honestly, jealousy of other people. Everyone else just seems like it\u2019s just so easy, or like they have parents that are footing the bill, or, I don\u2019t know.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So that feeling is like, what are we doing wrong? Are we the only ones?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:20]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:22]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0We\u2019re not giving our kids the childhood we want to give them.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:26]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Even the ones that we think are like us, they send their kid to camp. It\u2019s like $2,000. I don\u2019t know. But I don\u2019t know what their finances are. It\u2019s all left to my brain to run away with it and just be jealous.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:44]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And is that what your brain does?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:46]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:49]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0That can\u2019t feel good after a while.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:52]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I\u2019m tired of it. It\u2019s exhausting.<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:55]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0What do you want to feel instead?<\/p>\n<p>[00:58:59]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Equal.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:01]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I love that. Keep going.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:08]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I just want to not worry anymore.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Mm-hmm. Paul, what about you? What do you want to feel?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:19]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Confident in the financial decisions and future.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:24]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:25]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0Some, um, security.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:30]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You don\u2019t feel that right now, right?<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:33]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0No, not even close. I haven\u2019t really ever.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:39]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. You know what I\u2019d like for the two of you to feel when it comes to money? Pride.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:49]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019d be nice.<\/p>\n<p>[00:59:52]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Proud of what you have accomplished. Proud that you make six figures. That\u2019s very impressive. I\u2019d like to see you feeling proud of making a plan with your fixed costs and actually executing on it. I\u2019d like you to feel proud of making some difficult decisions when it comes to grocery shopping, and Apple watches, and subscriptions.<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:19] I\u2019d like you to feel pride when it comes to paying off your debt, a plan that you\u2019ve never made before, because it\u2019s further away than one month. This plan is going to take you over a year, but you made a plan, you set it in motion, and you trusted the process, and you didn\u2019t deviate. That\u2019s what I\u2019d like you to feel pride about. Bebe, what would it feel like if you felt pride around money like that?<\/p>\n<p>[01:00:48]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I think investing and putting money somewhere instead of every dollar that comes in being all that we have. I want to learn how to invest, and I am tired of feeling like an idiot whenever people talk about investments or flipping houses and making money. It seems like everybody else has this innate understanding of investing or has a leg up with someone giving them this thing that allows them to build on that we have never had.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:27]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. Okay. I want you to feel pride about your investments too. You can start investing.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:37]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We just don\u2019t know how. We don\u2019t know anything about that world.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:41]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You know about it. It\u2019s in Chapter 3 and Chapter 7 of my book. It\u2019s not that you don\u2019t know about investing. You know more than 90% of the American public if you\u2019ve read those two chapters. What is it really?<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Fear of losing.<\/p>\n<p>[01:01:58]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes. What else?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:02]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0That\u2019s the biggest one for me, is the fear of just failing.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:08]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Remember we talked about your daughter riding her bike?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:11]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:13]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Did you tell her don\u2019t get on the bike because I\u2019m afraid you might fall off once?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:16]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:18]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And even if you start investing and you do something boneheaded with the a 100 bucks, okay, I wish you hadn\u2019t, but it\u2019s a 100 bucks. Better to learn now than with $500,000 in a portfolio, don\u2019t you think?<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:33]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:34]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0All right. So it\u2019s a reframing. It\u2019s not that you don\u2019t know how to invest. You know. It\u2019s right in front of you in that book. That\u2019s actually one of the key lessons of today, is that you\u2019ve both been telling yourself a story. We just don\u2019t know what to do. I don\u2019t know. Where\u2019s the money going? You know. It\u2019s right in front of you. There\u2019s something deeper.<\/p>\n<p>[01:02:58] My take is you\u2019ve never had a vision for what you actually want to do with money. Money only feels bad to you. So of course, you want to hide it away, and avoid it, and certainly not talk about it in front of your kids. You feel like you talk about it too much. I feel like you don\u2019t probably don\u2019t talk about it enough. How can you talk about it in a healthy way when you yourself don\u2019t have a healthy relationship with it? And if you decide to go forward with this aggressive plan, you will get to that future a lot faster and more certainly than if you just mosey along and make 1% changes here and there.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:36]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. No, I knew it was going to take some aggressive changes for sure, but I think we just need to wake up.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. If you just needed to wake up, you would have done it over the last 10 plus years. Trust me that this is not a wake-up thing.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:53]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:03:54]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Literally, you\u2019ve been living with the stress of money every day of your life for the last 10 years.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:00]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a013.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:03]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Wouldn\u2019t you have woken up? Are you hearing what I\u2019m saying right now? I feel like you\u2019re in your own story.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:08]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0No, I am. I hear you.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:11]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0So what is it that needs to change? Because it\u2019s not waking up. That has nothing to do with this at all.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:15]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Well, we\u2019ve never had anybody lay it out in front of us like this.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:19]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay. But you guys could have hired a financial advisor or anybody.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:23]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0We could have, but we never have.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:25]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0There\u2019s no reason.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:27]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0I guess we\u2019re just so used to being small fish that like, why do we need a financial advisor with our tiny amount of money? And now that we make a significant amount of money, we don\u2019t know how to manage it.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:38]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0You\u2019re still thinking like you are poor.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:42]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:42]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Your kids are old enough. They can learn, oh, mom and dad have made some mistakes with our money. That\u2019s okay. We learned a lot. We talked to this guy. We\u2019re working through this book. Let us know if you want to read it. We\u2019re going to be talking about it on Sunday. If you want to come join and listen in, we\u2019d love to have you too.<\/p>\n<p>[01:04:56]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s a really big perspective change for me, is because every time we talk about money in front of them, I\u2019m like, they don\u2019t need to know that we\u2019re struggling ever, but I don\u2019t know why I have that opinion. I guess because I don\u2019t want them to be stressed about it, but I don\u2019t think they are.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:15]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0I\u2019ll tell you something. Kids and adults are stressed when there\u2019s a problem but no solution. So it\u2019s like, hey, right now, you know what, we were a little irresponsible with our spending. We got a little loose. And one thing we are going to do as adults is make some changes because we want to have a healthy relationship with money. We want to set a good example for ourselves and for you, and we\u2019re going to need your help.<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:43] From now on, we\u2019re going to do grocery shopping on this day. You might say to your son, we\u2019re going to need your help to do this. To your daughter, we\u2019re going to need your help to do that. But we\u2019re going to need your help because we can\u2019t do this alone. Are you on board with us? That\u2019s what being a family is about.<\/p>\n<p>[Narration]<\/p>\n<p>[01:05:57]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0In my conversation with Bebe and Paul, I heard them telling themselves a lot of stories. Stories to explain and rationalize how they had gotten into this situation. One of them happened towards the end of our conversation, where I pointed out that Bebe is working a full-time job and she\u2019s being dramatically underpaid to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars. She could make more working in fast food. And when I suggested that she go out and find a different job, especially in a fantastic job market like right now, she gave me a tepid response. That $30,000 that she could relatively easily add to their household would make a huge difference.<\/p>\n<p>[01:06:40] So I have to say that I\u2019m puzzled by our conversation today. I started off being puzzled. I think I\u2019m equally puzzled at the end of our conversation. There\u2019s a lot that has gone into Bebe and Paul making the decisions they made, but it\u2019s unclear to me if there are stakes here that will make them actually want to change. Let\u2019s take a look at Paul\u2019s follow-up video to see what happened.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:06]\u00a0<strong>Paul:<\/strong>\u00a0What surprised me the most? To really put down paper, doing that conscious spending plan, and seeing just where all of our money was going. That was pretty eye-opening. Key takeaways. A big one for me was just how the emotional financial decisions that you make whenever you know you mean well, trying to help, those $750 loans, not realizing that it\u2019s a 650% interest rate.<\/p>\n<p>[01:07:46] That was a big one for me. I will definitely think twice before doing anything like that again. Changes. We\u2019ve made a few, I think. We\u2019re not done, but we\u2019re going in the right direction. We have paid off that terrible loan that I got us in with the 600% interest, so that\u2019s $200 biweekly that is no longer going out.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:17]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0And now, let\u2019s hear from Bebe.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:19]\u00a0<strong>Bebe:<\/strong>\u00a0What surprised me? That 92%. When we were done with it, 92% of our money was going to fix costs. And how simple and straightforward it was to put all of our numbers into the CSP and to finally have a visual and an answer to, where does our money go? Where does all of our money go every month? Bam, it\u2019s right there for you. That was beautiful and shocking.<\/p>\n<p>[01:08:46] Key takeaways. We are not simple people as we claim to be, and that taking away these little things that aren\u2019t conducive to building the life that we see or consider our rich life, taking those away, and then putting that time, that money, that energy into what does contribute to that. Even time with each other, that\u2019s a big one.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:10] First, I canceled my ClassPass. That\u2019s 80 bucks right there. The two Apple watches, my son\u2019s Apple watch and my Apple watch, huge savings right there. Oh, and the payday loans, the MoneyLion, those are no more. Don\u2019t even have the account anymore. We\u2019re committing to opening an HSA for my medical expenses, so we\u2019ll save some money there, and I\u2019ll be able to use that instead of paying double taxes.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:36] Anyway, we just really appreciate you so much, and this is going to be life-changing for us if we continue moving forward with the advice that you gave us. And I know we can do it and make even bigger changes moving forward.<\/p>\n<p>[01:09:51]\u00a0<strong>Ramit:<\/strong>\u00a0Okay, I have to say, I\u2019m impressed at the follow-ups. My favorite part of that follow-up is when Bebe said, wow, I think we\u2019ve realized we\u2019re not actually the simple people that we have thought ourselves to be. To realize that the identity you\u2019ve created for yourself might not actually line up with reality is a huge realization. And on that count, I will take the win.<\/p>\n<p>[01:10:13] Paul and Bebe, thank you so much for coming and sharing your story with all of our listeners. And for everyone watching, if you\u2019re interested in the episode today, go on Apple, leave us a written review, and join our podcast newsletter at iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter where I talk about money psychology every Saturday. That\u2019s iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter.<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Bebe and Paul are 37 and 40. They have two young kids and in the last few years, they have moved about ten times for various family reasons. They\u2019re stuck in false narratives that are sinking their finances\u2014unable to recognize the long term negative effects of their actions. This episode is brought to you by: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-118951","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118951","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=118951"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/118951\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=118951"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=118951"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}