{"id":119013,"date":"2023-08-01T12:38:55","date_gmt":"2023-08-01T16:38:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119013"},"modified":"2025-04-07T10:08:25","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:08:25","slug":"115-kevin-ebony","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/115-kevin-ebony\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 115. \u201cWe\u2019ve fought about money for 29 years. Is it time for divorce?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cIs it time for us to get divorced?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/H757HupjV00\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><span data-mce-type=\"bookmark\" style=\"display: inline-block; width: 0px; overflow: hidden; line-height: 0;\" class=\"mce_SELRES_start\">\ufeff<\/span><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/2QAEu4BxIcayescJl4Nbaf\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin and Ebony are both 52. They have two kids, both young adults, and have turned their attention to retirement planning. But standing in the way are $135,000 of debt, a recurring issue, and 29 years of deeply ingrained negative communication patterns when it comes to money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">This episode is brought to you by:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Long Angle | If you\u2019ve made a lot of money and you\u2019re looking for a community of peers to turn to for advice, go to\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.longangle.com\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/www.longangle.com<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0to learn more.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">DeleteMe | If you want to get your personal information removed from the web, go to\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.joindeleteme.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/www.joindeleteme.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0for 20% off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">DoorDash | Go to\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.doordash.com\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/www.doordash.com<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0and use promo code RAMIT to get 50% off (up to $10) when you spend $15 or more at convenience, grocery, or retail stores on DoorDash.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.meetfabric.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/www.meetfabric.com\/ramit.<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Tools mentioned in this episode<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3HGwbkK\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Get my New York Times best-selling book<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/amzn.to\/3j6Tmuf\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Get my no-numbers journal<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/moneycoaching\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Get Money Coaching with Ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/dreamjob\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Join Dream Job<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Show Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1ISoS2TlUYwHZ9YzJqrXavHKfLd8Psziy\/view?usp=sharing\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I really was at the point where if he doesn\u2019t care anymore, I don\u2019t care anymore, and I was just going to throw my hands up and walk away and either file bankruptcy or walk away and file divorce. I am that done. It was not this complicated two months ago, Ramit. What did we say in this conversation that we had?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, we need more money. That was the conversation.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:23] Well, what he just said, more money was not going to solve the problem.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:27] I know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0He changed his direct deposit. I get paid once a month, so I was paying all of my stuff. It was already set up, and then it all came. Everything started coming out of one account. It\u2019s crazy.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Listen, if you guys want to fight, I\u2019m not the place to do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Rationalization. Rationalizing. I like being right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Would you like to right yourself right into another 25 years of not connecting over money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And again, I got to get off this crazy merry-go-round. If I start healing from this, and he doesn\u2019t, it\u2019s not going to work.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019d like you to meet Kevin and Ebony. They\u2019re both 52 years old, and they\u2019ve been married for 29 years. I just loved talking to them because they have layers upon layers of things that are going on in this conversation. Now, in their relationship, she manages the money, and she admits that she loves control. He says that he\u2019s willing to help, but his attitude is that it\u2019s all going to work out, even while she is terrified.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:32] Now, as you listen to today\u2019s episode, you\u2019re going to be frustrated at times. I can guarantee that. But you\u2019re also going to experience breakthroughs as they experience it. So stick with it. And be sure to stay tuned until the very end when they update us on what happened after our conversation. And if you\u2019re watching on YouTube, you\u2019ll actually be able to see their video updates. Now, let\u2019s get to Kevin and Ebony.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019ve been married for 29 years.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Congratulations.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Thank you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What do you attribute being married for 29 years to? That\u2019s quite an accomplishment.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, actually, communication.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, that\u2019s good. I appreciate that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ironic, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, ironically.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why are you laughing?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She can be hyperbolic, but at the same time, uh, it is the truth.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, do you think that the two of you communicate well with each other?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, we do.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0About everything except money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We do not communicate well about money. He avoids, and I hyper focus.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Your husband hearing it, and when money comes up now, even the word money, if it comes up in your house, how do you think he reacts?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0He shuts down. He detaches.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Show me physically. How would you describe it if you had to describe it? It\u2019d be like\u2013 yeah. Oh yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s a hot stove. Like no.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s too hot. I don\u2019t want to touch it. In fact, I\u2019m going back to my part of the house.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m going to watch football. I am the one who tends to take the lead and take charge and start the conversation. But once I bring it up, we have no problem having a conversation, but I always have to initiate the conversation.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And in your mind, you don\u2019t want that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, I don\u2019t want that. That\u2019s where I\u2019m at, like, I am too old to keep doing this, and I\u2019m in my early 50s, and I just really am like, I want someone who is mature enough to be as engaged in the things that matter in our life. And for me, really, I think what\u2019s making me feel the sense of urgency right now is I feel like retirement is looming.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:52] Um, I really was at the point where if he doesn\u2019t care anymore, I don\u2019t care anymore, and I was just going to throw my hands up and walk away and either file bankruptcy or walk away and file divorce. I am that done. Our youngest, our son is about to go to college, and yeah, I\u2019m not nearly where I want to be financially.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, do you agree that Ebony takes the lead in talking about all those topics?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, she does. But at the same time, Ramit, Ebony is a talker. Ebony is one of those people who\u2019s a busy body. Ebony is really, really smart. Um, I don\u2019t know if you have her profile, her bio. Uh, she\u2019s an attorney. She is, we like to joke, the smartest one in the room. So she has a lot of energy, and her mind is always going when it should be relaxing and laid back. She\u2019s always wanting to just\u2013 sometimes you just have to let things go, and she doesn\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. All right. I think I understand. So let\u2019s talk about money. First of all, did the two of you talk about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Not really. Just the typical pay the bills. Uh, what do we need? We, um, have a spreadsheet.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have a spreadsheet and a budget.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That I have created, that I then show him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That we brief with each other once a month about, oh, we don\u2019t do that.?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Let\u2019s take it one at a time. Kevin, you tell me, how do you talk about money, and when do you talk about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When she\u2019s going to get paid, we\u2019ll talk about that. Um, also when I get paid, to just make sure the money\u2019s dispersed properly or in the categories, or when we have different things coming up. Um, as she said, we have a son. He\u2019s a, uh, basketball player. He has camps, um, trainers, different things of that nature. Uh, just the typical household budget and the extra things. Um, he had camps, so we had to figure out the hotels, everything else. So those type of conversations. But just a basic money conversation, we don\u2019t have those.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, Ebony, you want to add anything different to that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, no, I think he summed it up. We really don\u2019t talk about money in terms of investment and what\u2019s our retirement plan. And sometimes I\u2019ll say something to him that I think is really obvious because I read a lot of books about money. Like how much you need before you can retire and what you\u2019re going to live off of. To the point it\u2019s just basic stuff, and he\u2019s just like, has no interest in it, does not have any information about it unless I share it with him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why do you think he has no interest in it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because with his free time, he will watch sports. It\u2019s all he does.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, you told me what he does. My question is, why don\u2019t you think he has any interest in money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because when I bring it up, he avoids the conversation.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why do you think that is?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, honestly, I think there\u2019s\u2013 I guess, it\u2019s fear. There\u2019s some trauma there. I don\u2019t know. That\u2019s why I\u2019m on this show, because I really want to know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wait a minute. Hold on.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why can\u2019t\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019ve been married 29 years. You two clearly communicate with each other. You never got curious about why does your husband not want to talk about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Probably not until the last three years or so.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You were just busy for the last 26 years?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, no, because I really am, I\u2019ll say, very controlling.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. I\u2019ll just do it. I don\u2019t have time to wait, and I don\u2019t know what his deal is, so I just do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You say it like, I\u2019m going to reveal a secret. I\u2019m controlling. Okay. Got you. Kevin, are you surprised by that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh my goodness. Oh, that\u2019s news to me. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Let me make sure I have the dynamics right. I just want to make sure I understand. Correct me if I\u2019m not accurate because I want to make sure I understand what\u2019s going on. Ebony, you\u2019re an attorney. You\u2019re in charge of the finances in the house. You have a spreadsheet, maybe multiple spreadsheets. Is it multiple?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Probably.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So you managed the money, and it\u2019s actually worked in the sense that you had that role in the family for 26 years. So far, is everything accurate?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Got it. And then in the last three or so years, as you\u2019ve gotten closer to your 50s, your kids moving out, etc, you\u2019re reflecting. You\u2019re zooming back and saying, wait a second. I\u2019m not where I thought I would be. And this situation we have, the way that we treat money in our family is not working for me anymore. Is that right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She matters to me. I really love her, and, uh, I\u2019m willing to do anything to, um, help our relationship, and truly, uh, she has a point. It\u2019s one of those things where someone\u2019s right, you\u2019re like, wow. And I may not be expressive or quite feel the way she feels, but I see the numbers and everything else.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What is the point that she has?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, the point being, um, we have a lot of debt as far as\u2013 I would say, on a scale of, uh, 100, we\u2019re probably, uh, 98. We\u2019re right where things are very tough month to month or, as they say, if you had a true emergency, one of us, any emergency where we couldn\u2019t work anything, it would be definitely difficult.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Lot of early clues here. First off, the stakes are high. They brought up the word divorce in the first five minutes. And let\u2019s remember that they\u2019ve been married for 29 years. In all that time, they haven\u2019t explored basic questions about how they both act around money. I personally love this because it gives me a lot of low hanging fruit to work with. Another clue\u2019s that their son is an athlete with expensive training and camps, etc. And finally, the last clue I noticed is that Ebony proudly admits to wanting control in the relationship. And that relationship, by the way, has a lot of debt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s why we\u2019re here. We were down to our last $25,000, and I said, do you know what? We paid off all the credit cards. We paid off all the stuff. And then we agreed we would do a consolidation loan and pay off the rest so that we would just knock it out and no more credit cards. But you saw the statements. There\u2019s credit card.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:28] So now we basically doubled it, and I\u2019m like, what the heck? How did this happen? So I feel like I\u2019ve lied to myself. He\u2019s lied to me, and I guess I\u2019ve lied to him too. But there\u2019s been a lot of dishonesty, and I don\u2019t know\u2013 I have been working on why this behavior continues to repeat, but I can\u2019t\u2013 it\u2019s probably very multifaceted.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:50] I really like to be able to look in my bank account and see money in there. And in fact, sometimes when I should take money out of the savings because I\u2019ve saved up, like this is for this expense, I don\u2019t want to. I want to put it on a credit card because I feel like if I deplete my savings, disaster is just around the corner. I cannot be a 70-year old person in credit card debt. I cannot do that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, you can\u2019t. What would happen if you were 70 years old in credit card debt? Don\u2019t own a home. What would you do?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Disaster is homelessness, and I just feel like it\u2019s right around the corner because there\u2019s so much uncertainty. If I lose my job, we are going to be homeless. I would be eating cat food and living on the street. My worst nightmare is I\u2019m going to be homeless. That is just something I\u2019ve\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hold on, hold on, hold on. Let me guess. Let me paint the picture. Tell me if you\u2019ve thought about this very picture. It\u2019s raining. There\u2019s a van. You\u2019re kicked out of the van unceremoniously. You have one bag. You have cat food, if that, and you\u2019re left alone with only your bag of things. Does this sound familiar?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, except I have a lot of bags.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Where does this homelessness fear come from?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know. Yeah, it\u2019s bizarre.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You want to find out?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do I want to find out?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, let\u2019s just find out right now. Who in your family got so close to being homeless that it was talked about a lot that people use them as a cautionary tale?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019ve given away hundreds of thousands of dollars to his relatives to help them.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We\u2019ve helped almost every one of his siblings, and he has a lot of them, Ramit.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We grew up really tough to where I have a total of, oh gosh. I have, um, anyway, our mom\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wait, are you trying to count how many siblings you have, and you can\u2019t even count?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What is it? 25? How many are we talking about?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s not that bad. They\u2019re just a blended family. There\u2019s five kids with mom and four kids with dad, including him.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So what, they come to you for money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, no.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They used to. Oh my god, they don\u2019t come to us for money? They\u2019ve lived with us.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay, fine. But what\u2019s this hundreds of thousands of dollars you\u2019ve given to them?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. Over the time, um, one of my sisters had a daughter. We adopted her. Uh, my brother, uh, lived with us. My sister lived with us. That daughter lived with us. So over the time, you paid for childcare. You paid for school, dance class, and everything else.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. I don\u2019t mind. Family needs help. I love it. That\u2019s very generous of both of you. I think that\u2019s really cool. Uh, just where\u2019d the hundreds of thousands of dollars comment come from Ebony?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh. It\u2019s at least a hundred thousand dollars. I\u2019ve done the math. The numbers are easily a hundred thousand dollars. Um, we raised this child for 13 years. Um, but then beyond just that child, his other siblings, we\u2019ve helped bail them out of jail, paid for them to\u2013 housing. But yeah. So you talk about the housing, who I\u2019ve known homeless, I\u2019ve known people in his family who are homeless. Uh, but that wasn\u2019t in my childhood.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0There\u2019s an interesting note here about money and gender. Virtually, every woman I talk to about money, if I ask them, what are your fears about money, their fear is almost always identical. And it\u2019s the exact same scene that ebony here outlined. Being left alone in the rain with a couple of bags, etc.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:58] I even asked on social media, and over 80% of women said yes, they have this fear. I find this absolutely astonishing. Now, we have to remember that in our parents\u2019 generation, as recently as that, many of our moms were not allowed to work or even to have a bank account from our mother\u2019s or grandmother\u2019s generation.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:19] Those fears persist. And even though incomes have changed and gender norms and expectations have changed, those feelings are passed down through whispers, and rolled eyes, and aunties pulling us aside and giving us a quiet warning about having a secret account. Now, part of the point of this podcast is to shine a light on all the secret beliefs we have about money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:41] And they come from all around us. They come from gender expectations for men and women. They come from cultural expectations, income expectations. Sometimes there are expectations for our partner or our desires for a certain luxury that we believe we\u2019re entitled to, or even our fears for ourselves.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:01] I don\u2019t mind us having fears about money. We all have them, me included. What I do mind is letting our fears shape our entire relationship with money. Think about it. If we\u2019re operating solely out of fear, or ignorance, or scarcity, we tend to make bad decisions for the long term. So the question to ask yourself listening to this episode is what fears do I have about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ebony, I would like to ask you a few questions. Uh, tell me about what it was like growing up.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So I grew up with my mom and my grandparents. So I lived in a multi-generational house. If you go by what the financial aid limits are, I qualified for Pell Grant, so yeah, I was poor.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How much do you think the household income was that your family was making?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, my mom, when she retired, um, probably made 30,000 a year with overtime. I was an only child, my mom\u2019s only child. My dad was not there. No support. Nothing. But my granddad was there, which was great. We basically had three incomes until he passed when I was 14. But growing up, money, for me, it\u2019s basically meant to be spent to cover your bills. We didn\u2019t have extra. I never heard anyone in my family talking about, um\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Investing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Retirement, investments, 401k, stocks. That was like, no.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Nothing, none of that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What did they talk about, Ebony?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When it came to money, I definitely heard the money doesn\u2019t grow on trees. I was even told as a child that I was very stingy because I was a good saver. Um, one year, when I\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Look at Kevin\u2019s face right now. Look at that big smile. Just popped up. Okay. Kevin\u2019s like, uh-huh.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin is very, very, very generous. I give him that. And that\u2019s one of the things I love about him. And one of the things I loved when we were dating, that he\u2019s very generous.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do you still love that he\u2019s generous?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, I do. I do.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Are you stingy?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. I mean, your family called you stingy at age five. I\u2019m not saying it. It\u2019s your family.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I was a good saver.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. So Ebony, that\u2019s pretty interesting, don\u2019t you think?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And it\u2019s learned behavior. I grew up seeing this, and you asked me who was in dire straits, and while I was thinking\u2013 or who did I see, I grew up in dire poverty, so I saw people all the time down the street from me who did not have running water in their house. I grew up in Mississippi.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And you say dire poverty. Is that how you described it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Dire poverty in Mississippi is no joke. Tell me about the people you saw around you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, some people would come to school, and their clothes were dirty because they didn\u2019t have running water. The lady down the street that used to braid my hair, they didn\u2019t have indoor plumbing. Um, yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Let me make sure I have the facts right. You grew up around people who were in dire poverty, although you and your family were not. You were the smart one. You were very smart. Went to college. I believe you went to law school too. Is that correct?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Great. You accomplished a lot, and you solve problems. You\u2019re the junior god, or the savior. You fix things a lot. All of these things make you, what? How would you characterize it? Very accomplished. What else would you say?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I was thinking martyr complex for\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0There\u2019s probably some of that too, but that\u2019s separate. Okay. So you\u2019re accomplished. You\u2019re the glue for a lot of people. Okay, great.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I\u2019m the smartest one. That\u2019s the joke we always say.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I get it. I totally get it. Okay. So it\u2019s a running joke. You\u2019re the smartest one. And so if things were to not work out, financially speaking, worst case, you go homeless, tell me what would happen to the smart one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I would be found out to be an imposter. I really did not have it all together.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And that identity that you have, what would happen to that identity?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What I do and my worth is so wrapped up into my identity that it would be an identity crisis. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think it would die.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The identity of you, the smart person, Ebony the savior,<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And I\u2019ll say, sometimes I feel like I\u2019m playing with this fire that if I got into this position, maybe I really do want this facade to die so that I can just be. And I can just be, and I can for once be the not responsible one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, are you hearing this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What was that last thing she just said?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0To be the not responsible one. Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. What do you take away from that? The not responsible one?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I need to help more. She told me today. We had the conversation. We communicated, um, that she was just like, man, take something off my plate.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I appreciate that. And I especially appreciate hearing Ebony reason through her own identity.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How our identity affects our money is underexplored, in my opinion. I love that Ebony just let us understand a little bit of her life as the savior, the one in control, because it helps me see that she\u2019s been operating on a high wire for over 20 years. The way she tells the story to herself, if she\u2019s not in control, meaning if she doesn\u2019t create multiple spreadsheets, and take on the work, and ensure that everything\u2019s happening in order, not only would things around her fall apart, but crucially, her identity would shatter.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:17] She even said, \u201cSometimes I just wish I could not be the responsible one.\u201d And you hear this a lot with couples. One person will say, at work, I make decisions all day long. Sometimes I wish I could just come home and not have to make more decisions. This is about identity. It has nothing to do with a spreadsheet or 401k, but your identity leaves fingerprints everywhere around your money. Let me ask Kevin about his background.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, what do you remember about money growing up?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I was raised by my, um, grandmother.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Very dysfunctional family. A lot of different situations and everything. Um, it\u2019s just a lot going on. It\u2019s one of those deals where you know you\u2019re poor, and everybody else knows you\u2019re poor, and it\u2019s just one of those, you just deal with it and get through it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When you say poor, what are we talking about?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, government assistance, that type of deal. Where it\u2019s like, all right, this is what we\u2019re eating. You don\u2019t have choices or options, those type things. Um, my grandmother raised me, but she was a, uh, what is it? Domestic\u2013 where she was a maid. She would clean up people\u2019s homes and everything, and just made ends meet. So it\u2019s one of those deals where you knew not to ask for much, and whatever you were given, you just appreciate it and moved on. You didn\u2019t have conversations about money. Oh, this is my checking account. Nothing was broken down to you or anything.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Did you ever eat out at restaurants?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. That was an extreme treat. I\u2019m talking about even McDonald\u2019s. It was, uh, I can remember, as a kid, if you get an A, you get a free cheeseburger. I actually got an A this time. Yeah, let\u2019s go. So getting a pizza from the local pizza shop was a treat.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. All right. How\u2019d you get to go to college?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I was an extremely talented athlete.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Really?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What sport?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, football?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No kidding. All right. So seems like you passed that on to your kids as well. And then, uh, what age were you when you met Ebony?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, we were 22.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a022. Okay. How soon did you get married?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, two years after.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Um, how about when you had kids? Did you talk about money before or right after that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, yeah, we definitely talked about that. That was one of the big things. We actually waited till we were well into our, um, 30s to have children. We spaced them out and everything because of that. But yeah, in our 30s. Wanted to make sure we were stable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. Um, when did it become clear, Kevin, that Ebony was going to take the lead in managing money in your relationship?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, um, since we\u2019ve always been together. I mean, like I said, she\u2019s one of the most organized people I know. And, um, I don\u2019t know. I\u2019m a big team player. It is whatever you do good, you do it. And like I said, I do all the cooking. I mean, we have non-traditional roles. I\u2019ll wash. She\u2019ll wash. We do whatever\u2019s best for our family. And I mean, since I\u2019ve known her, she has been good. She\u2019s very organized. We have about 20 calendars around here, Ramit. She manages her time well and everything. So that\u2019s just always been one of our things. She\u2019s always done that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is she good at managing money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She is. She is.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So what\u2019s the problem?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Her attitude changed. One moment, she\u2019ll say, oh, I want you to do it. I don\u2019t know. Before we came on here, we were talking. She wants me to do it. But on the flip side, if it\u2019s not to \u201cher standard\u201d or the way she likes it, and it is one of those deals where if you want me to do it, it\u2019ll be done, but it may not be done to your liking. It\u2019s almost like all three of us can cook a hamburger. It\u2019ll be cooked an entirely different way, but it\u2019ll be a burger at the end.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Is that true? What do you want, Ebony? Do you want Kevin to manage the finances day-to-day?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, I do. But he\u2019s burned me so many times. I don\u2019t trust that it\u2019s not going to happen again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. I\u2019m going to ask you again this time what you want to do, but there\u2019s only one rule when you answer me. You can\u2019t use the word but.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What do you want to do when it comes to the management of your money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I want Kevin to do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I hate to even say this, but just in transparency, uh, I hadn\u2019t even thought about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Thank you for your honesty.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How\u2019s that possible if Ebony\u2019s been talking about money for a long time?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, what do you mean how is that possible?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m serious. She even said to you before, I need help. Uh, I want you to talk about money, etc. How did it never come up that you might take over some of this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She didn\u2019t mention she wanted me to do that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ah. Ebony, is that true?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I would say that\u2019s true, and yes. And classic Kevin style, unless I say I need you to do and fill in the blank, it means I\u2019m not going to engage.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So why not just say that if you know that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Me, why wouldn\u2019t I just say\u2013 yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Then he\u2019s going to say, you\u2019re not going to be satisfied with the way that I do it, so I\u2019m not going to do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. So do you see the dynamic here? Let me role play it out so the two of you can see it. All right. Here\u2019s, uh, Ebony, and here\u2019s Kevin. All right. Ebony says, \u201cI\u2019m so frustrated. We\u2019re going to run out of money. We\u2019re going to be homeless. This is so crazy.\u201d Well, babe, you\u2019re so smart. You always make it work. Yeah, I know I make it work. That\u2019s not how I want it to be. I\u2019m so frustrated with the way things are. I wish you blank, blank, blank, blank, blank.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:54] Well, we\u2019re a team, and I\u2019m happy to help, but you\u2019re so great at this, etc. Fast forward 29 years, same conversation happening. What you didn\u2019t hear, but what could have happened, would be Ebony saying, here\u2019s what I would like for you to do. I would like for you to take this spreadsheet, and on the fourth of every month, go through it and pay off every single thing that\u2019s listed off. Can you do that? Never happened. But instead, in your heads, what did you do?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:32] In your heads, and I\u2019m sure this has come out in other places in your relationship, well, if I told him that, then he\u2019s going to say, well, you\u2019re not going to want me to do a right, so da da da da. Then we\u2019re going to just get in a fight again. And then da da da da. And so you end up not doing anything. How does that sound? Familiar?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Sounds right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Can I get a round of applause for performance?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You nailed it. You nailed it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Goddamn. Ramit Sethi, theater performer. So Kevin, you can see why Ebony would be extremely frustrated. In fact, what are some words you would use to describe how she must feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Simply angry. It\u2019s a hot button for her.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And literally, about, uh, once a month, or every so often, she just gets mad, and we get into an argument about money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And does she have a right to get mad?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. Yes, she does.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, what\u2019s going on in this dynamic?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, just cycle, cycle, cycle, cycle.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I do want Kevin to do it. I just am very afraid because I\u2019ve seen him do it before, and it has become a complete and utter mess.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When was this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If he would educate himself, I would be okay with him doing it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Uh, do you believe that if he educated himself, that you would actually be okay with him doing it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And communicate with me about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So Ebony, you have this budget or budgets that you\u2019re very proud of. What level are you tracking on your budgets? You tracking the price of turnips?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What are you tracking in there? How many lines are in there?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, I think there\u2019s probably 30.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. 30. So what does it tell you at the end of the month?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Basically, it\u2019s a zero sum budget, so I am basically just trying to say we\u2019re not going in the red this month, and I just itemize everything we\u2019re paying. But I have put things like groceries, miscellaneous, and gas in a lump sum category that we don\u2019t micromanage.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. So you\u2019ve been doing this for 29 years, correct?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And you manage the money in the house, correct?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Correct.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And your budget is zero sum, so you want to make sure you\u2019re out of the red. Right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. How much debt do you currently have?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m doing math in my head, so give me a second.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Take your time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because I have these things all in different categories. So credit card debt is probably about. 55,000, or 60,000. The cars are probably about 30, and student loans are about 30.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s about right. You\u2019re missing about 15,000, but you\u2019re in the ballpark. So here\u2019s my question for you. Are the budgets actually working?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, the budgets aren\u2019t working, which is why we\u2019re here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hello, 29 years of doing this thing, which doesn\u2019t even\u2013 you got $135,000 of debt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. It gives me a false sense of control. I get it. Yeah, I know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s extremely perceptive. How did that just roll off your tongue?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, I\u2019m in therapy. I\u2019m working on it. I\u2019m trying to change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I really love how honest Ebony is. What a gift she\u2019s bringing for her and Kevin to come on the show and be so transparent about something that\u2019s bothered them for decades. Most of us never get the chance to hear a real couple having a real conversation about money behind closed doors. And I think that\u2019s even more true for a couple that\u2019s been married for almost 30 years. The longer you\u2019ve been married, the less likely you are to talk about these type of problems publicly.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:42] Now, I want to point something out about Ebony\u2019s budget. This is something I frequently see with people who are the ones managing money in a relationship. Many people believe that managing money means tracking the expenses of everything,\u00a0 making sure the bills get paid on time. I\u2019m going to be really direct. That is not managing money. A computer can do that better than you or I could ever do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:08] You can read Chapter 5 of my book, set up your automation, and really never have to think about this very much again. And frankly, what good is tracking a budget for 29 years if you\u2019re in 135,000 of debt? Did it actually work? Sometimes we need to take a candid assessment of what we\u2019re doing and what the outcomes are.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:32] If you\u2019re doing what you think is right, but you\u2019re not getting the outcomes you want, maybe what you\u2019re doing is actually not the right strategy. In my opinion, the real solution is to radically reconceptualize what managing money actually means. In my opinion, it has nothing to do with paying bills on time. That should get done, but that\u2019s not what managing money is about.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:54] Managing money is designing your rich life, which you can use my journal to do. It means setting up your investments, which you can do with Chapter 3 and 7 of my book. That alone will be responsible for the majority of your wealth over your lifetime. And it means living your rich life. Which, if you need help with that, come into Money Coaching, where I do Q&amp;A, and we all share how we\u2019re using money to live an amazing life. I\u2019ll throw some links in the show notes. Just remember this. Tracking your spending alone is not managing money. A robot can do that better than you or I ever could.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So have you been discussing the need for control?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And it manifests in one particular way, I\u2019m sure others, but through a budget.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. So can we go back to the thing about Kevin, if Kevin educated himself? Kevin doesn\u2019t need to keep a budget that results in $135,000 of debt. Can we agree?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, we can agree.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Thank you. Kevin, you\u2019ve been holding your tongue for about 10 minutes. Looks like that tongue\u2019s about to fall out of your mouth. How does our conversation that Ebony and I just had strike you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, that\u2019s typical Ebony. She can be all over the place. First of all, uh, Ramit, I have a business degree, so I know all about budgeting and everything else, but in our home, I do all the cooking. Sometimes we play different roles that you may want to play, and she\u2019s really awesome at what she does. And it\u2019s just one of those things where, over the years, everything has accumulated. Like she said, we were out of debt before, and different things have come up, and here we are again back at this point in our lives. But no, it is not as cut and dry as she makes it seem. Uh, it\u2019s so many details that\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You think there\u2019s layers here beyond the income and the expenses?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. What are some of those layers, Kevin?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, first of all, we\u2019ve lived in multiple cities, multiple things. So that affects different incomes that I can make, that I can have.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hold on. Meaning you both travel for her career, and therefore you have to start over each time that happens. Is that right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay, fine. So your income may not be where it would\u2019ve been had you been in one place.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Exactly.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What else? What are the other layers?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The most expensive luxury item we have are our kids.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t know. I feel it\u2019s one of those situations where everything is going to improve, number one, simply with time. Uh, number two, as our children, they\u2019re not going to be here. Our expenses will go down anywhere from 40 to 50%. Well, at least four years from now, we\u2019ll have a better control of everything, and we could have everything paid down. That was my train of thought.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, can you show me the numbers behind that, or is that just a feeling?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, it\u2019s not a feeling. I could show you the numbers.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right, let\u2019s look at them. You want to do it right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t have a pen and a pad, but okay, let\u2019s go with it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have a conscious spending plan. You could show me. Should we do it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Yes, we good.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. So just so we know, just so I make sure I understand, your contention is your youngest is going to college next year. Your expenses are going to drop, let\u2019s just say 50%, and therefore you\u2019re going to pay off the debt, etc. And you\u2019re going to live happily ever after basically.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Are you sure? All right, let\u2019s play it out. We got to look at the numbers here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. Well, yes and no, but\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why are you backing off? What\u2019s the no part? Don\u2019t caveat yourself. Go ahead.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The money is there. If you really look at it, the money is there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If we tighten up some things and manage our lifestyles, the money\u2019s there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Can I just ask you, if that were the case, why don\u2019t you just do it without calling me and before you get into $135,000 of debt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s true. I have no response for that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, realistically, I am going to go through your numbers with you. Maybe you will cut your expenses 50% from having one kid out of the house. I know you spend a lot of money because you take them around for sports and stuff like that. Okay, fine. Maybe you will cut your expenses 50%. But for me, if I were in this relationship, that\u2019s not enough. I would need to know a plan. How are we getting out of debt? When?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Let me cut this short just to give you their numbers. Their assets, $87,000. Their investments, $460,000. Savings, $1,300. Debt, $135,000, and their net worth is therefore $413,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How do you feel about that number, Kevin? 413,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s tough. Uh, when you put it all on paper, it is, uh, I don\u2019t know what\u2019s the word to describe. I don\u2019t know. Disappointing<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because, um, we have the knowledge, the know-how. We have an idea of how things should be, and I think that\u2019s probably one of the disappointments because you just feel you should be in a better spot. But on the flip side, I mean, we\u2019re first generation. No one\u2019s given us anything, and everything we\u2019ve got is just literally her and I.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. When you say you feel you should be at a different place, what place do you feel you should be at?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The different periods in our life, um, as recent as, um, oh my goodness, uh, the COVID deal. Um, we changed our spending habits. We put a really big dent in our debt. What was it? Um, how much was it, Ebony? Uh, about 40,000, 30,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was probably more than that. We paid off both cars. We paid off a lot of credit card. Store credit card debt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You build that momentum, and you just feel like, okay, now we\u2019re really on track. And then to see it all back again, and as she said, life happens. Um, with the cars, we had a couple accidents, and it\u2019s just like, wow, we\u2019re back in this hole again. And to really put it out there like that. And that was one of the things after seeing\u2013 when you really put the numbers out there, it\u2019s disheartening, almost. Like, man, it\u2019s that bad.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I want you to notice how Kevin didn\u2019t answer my question. In fact, Kevin doesn\u2019t answer my question a lot. His responses are a lot of words jumbled together with feelings, and a lot of easygoing, ah, it\u2019ll be fine, but very few specifics. And part of the reason he can get away with answers like this is that Ebony takes on the load and handles all the finances.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:35] If we lived in some alternate dimension where Kevin were single, and he was responsible for his own money, he would not talk about money like this. Not for a second. Because he would have to know exactly how much it takes to pay the bills, pay for kids, and so on.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. All right. I appreciate the honesty. Ebony, how about you? When you see those net worth numbers, how do you feel about it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The interesting thing is I thought that was high. I don\u2019t really feel like I have that much net worth. And we pulled the numbers together, and I\u2019m like, this can\u2019t be right. All I see is the debt. I don\u2019t even see any of the assets.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. So one of you thinks you\u2019re in a worse position than you thought, and the other thinks you\u2019re in a better position than you thought. What does that tell you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We\u2019re not on the same page.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s how we think. We\u2019re never on the same page. And really that\u2019s all I want, is for us to be somewhat on the same page of the facts. I appreciate that he doesn\u2019t think like me. I don\u2019t think like him, but some things are\u2013 like one plus one is two. It is not three.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think we can agree on that. Okay. So it is interesting to me, before we go into the rest of these numbers, that if the two of you aren\u2019t even agreeing on a basic set of facts, that\u2019s a bigger issue than 5,000 or 10,000 here or there. Would you agree?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So I want to point out that the primary reason that you, Ebony, feels so stressed out about money is this number right here. What is that number?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a091%.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Your fixed costs are 91%. The reason that you\u2019ve had to create all these elaborate spreadsheets, and the reason that you worry about being homeless, all of it, from a financial perspective, purely, not talking about the emotional side of it is this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So when you\u2019re talking about Kevin spent $25 on this or that, it\u2019s irrelevant. You could triple your income, and that dynamic doesn\u2019t change. That is what controls what\u2019s going on.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I mean, I\u2019ve asked him it directly, and he always gets out of it. He\u2019ll say, oh, you\u2019re going to get mad if I don\u2019t do it the way you want to. And he dodges it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And you let him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And I let him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What been the consequences? He told me just now, just two minutes ago, he candidly said, it never crossed my mind to do this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I call him Mr. Magoo. He just walks around with his glasses and can\u2019t see anything, but everything\u2019s going to work out perfectly. The ladder\u2019s going to come down over the halls. I\u2019m the ladder.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, you are.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And I\u2019ve let myself be the ladder.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And you\u2019re still recreating that dynamic right now as we speak.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. But I don\u2019t want to anymore. I promise you I don\u2019t. I really want to change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So tell me, what are you going to do about it? Because I can\u2019t do it. It\u2019s got to be the two of you doing it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m going to give him the finances, and if I end up homeless, so be it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All jokes aside, I\u2019m not sure that\u2019s probably the healthiest thing. Can I just say that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, do you have the skills to manage the household income right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, I do.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m not insulting you at all. I\u2019m saying like, this is the complex stuff. The way it\u2019s laid out, even I\u2019m like, what the hell is going on here? I\u2019m serious. And I do this for a living.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s why I was like\u2013 educating yourself. He doesn\u2019t understand my system. It is overly complex.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ebony, but your system sucks.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, it sucks. I agree. It sucks.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Listen, there\u2019s so many layers here, and the two of you have constructed so many layers, and every single one of those layers keeps you stuck in place. Ebony, you don\u2019t even ask him what to do. Mr. Magoo over here\u2013 first of all, I hate these fucking jokes with each other. If you\u2019re going to joke with each other, say something nice. I hate this. These insulting running jokes, it does you no favors at all. You ever go out to dinner with a couple and all they do is snipe at each other? How\u2019d that feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Didn\u2019t like it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We were probably that couple, Ramit, that was doing the sniping. So no, it does not feel good.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s not good. And so all these running jokes are actually so toxic. Okay. So let\u2019s just put that aside because that needs to be resolved. That\u2019s a long-term thing. So then Kevin goes\u2013 he finds a way out of it, but although, I will say, Kevin, to your credit, you\u2019re saying, hey, I\u2019m open to doing this. I appreciate that. I recognize that.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:37] Uh, and then Ebony\u2019s going, okay, you\u2019re in charge of every single thing in this household. Ebony, your system is super complicated. I don\u2019t know why you set it up like this. And there are definitely reasons, because if no one else can understand your system, if Kevin tries to do it and fails, then what does that make you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The savior.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I completely agree that the system is way too complex.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay, great. Cool. I appreciate that. So maybe, instead of handing off this extremely convoluted system to Kevin who\u2019s never done it, and you\u2019re basically setting him up for failure\u2013 do we all agree? Kevin, if I were in your seat, I would not feel good about taking on this system. I\u2019m telling. I wouldn\u2019t even do it myself right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was not this complicated two months ago, Ramit.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If a system got this complicated in two months, you got a problem.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Yeah, we did. We had a problem. Our accounts got screwed up. So yeah, it was a problem.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s shocking, that your accounts got screwed up because your system was so convoluted. That\u2019s the point.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. Because he changed his direct deposit. It was not that. I get paid once a month, so I was paying all of my stuff. It was already set up, and then it all came. Everything started coming out of one account. It\u2019s crazy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ebony. Did it feel good to explain that to me right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because I don\u2019t want you to think that I\u2019m some crazy person.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0There\u2019s a rhyme and a reason to the\u2013\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, Ebony. That\u2019s not why you did it. Can I suggest something to you? I\u2019d like the two of you to reframe the way you\u2019re both treating this. This is the problem, and the two of you are the team. So figure out a way to solve it together. It\u2019s not one, and then the other shooting down their ideas. The two of you have this problem. It\u2019s your money. You want to start talking to each other?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What do you think? Ramit, we\u2019ve had this conversation, and that\u2019s, uh\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What did we say in this conversation that we had?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, we need more money. That was the conversation.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, what he just said, more money was not going to solve the problem.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Listen, if you guys want to fight, I\u2019m not the place to do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. I\u2019m not trying to fight.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Listen to me. It\u2019s a waste of my time, and it\u2019s disrespectful to me if you perpetuate these patterns. You\u2019re wasting my time. Here are the numbers. You two are a team. Let\u2019s create a way to solve it. If you want to play ball, let\u2019s do it. I\u2019m here to help. I\u2019ll stay as long as I need to. If you two want to argue back and forth, I don\u2019t want to be here. So tell me how you\u2019d like to proceed because I\u2019m here to support you if you\u2019re in the game.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I wish I hadn\u2019t lost my temper there. I was frustrated that they kept going back to sniping with each other. The dynamic for them is so familiar, it\u2019s almost like they\u2019re glued to it. And when I was trying to get them to look forward, it felt like they were both going backwards. Sometimes, on this podcast, I will say something extremely direct in order to get my guests attention. But when I do that, I\u2019m intentional about it. But that right there, with Kevin and Ebony, that was not intentional. I just lost my temper. So to Ebony and Kevin, if you\u2019re listening to this, I apologize.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s the rationalization. Rationalizing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And when you explain something, even something that\u2019s not getting you the outcome you want, what does it get you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Relief. Control.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. It makes you feel right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Right. Yes. I like being right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m shocked. Would you like to right yourself right into another 25 years of not connecting over money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do you see how deep the changes that the two of you have to make really go are?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. This is the tip of the iceberg. Not even the tip. But he doesn\u2019t even think there\u2019s an iceberg, so this is why we\u2019re here. Thank you, Ramit. He thinks everything\u2019s fine. Everything\u2019s great.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How do you know that? Have you ever asked him?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because he told me. He said, hey\u2013 we were just having this\u2013\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Stop right now. Stop right now. Stop right now. Do you realize what you\u2019re doing as we talk about the layers that you have to change?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Repeating the same pattern.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s not getting you anywhere. I\u2019m telling you right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. It\u2019s not.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Every time you do it, you get this short feeling of relief. I\u2019m right. And each time, you push the two of you away just a little bit more. I wonder what it would be like if you think about someone who you really admire, the way they treat money and the way they talk about money. Ebony, who comes to mind for you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, it would have to be somebody famous like you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Let me cut in here really quick. If you\u2019re watching this on YouTube, leave a comment below with who comes to mind for you when you think about someone you admire for the way they treat money. I\u2019m curious to see what you say.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I was thinking I was going to have to find a new job. I could probably double my salary.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Double?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why haven\u2019t you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I really like what I do now. I have been in some very toxic workplaces, and this is the first time I\u2019ve ever had a job where I\u2019m not stressed at work. I actually took a pay cut, and so I\u2019ve shifted my stress from work stress to money stress.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You know what? That\u2019s very perceptive. Yeah, you have.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do you think that maybe there\u2019s a job that you can do that\u2019s not toxic and pays you more?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I really hope that there is, and I\u2019ve had so many negative experiences that I don\u2019t believe it. It\u2019s the nature of the field that I\u2019m in, unfortunately.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, let me say this. I know many people have been in many toxic industries. I will tell you that I believe there is a way for you to do it. I have to believe it because I\u2019ve seen so many people in similar situations. They go, I\u2019m never going to find a job like this. There are ways. One, you can screen for it as you start to go through your interview process, remembering that you are selective just as well as they are selective.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:39] Asking the right questions, speaking to people off the record, people who used to work there and left. All of those things. Great ways that you can find out what\u2019s really going on in an org. But honestly, Ebony, if you\u2019re telling me you can double your salary, that solves a lot of these financial problems.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I mean, can I just show you? I want to show you so it really sinks in here. Imagine this. Look at this. Let\u2019s say that this becomes, uh, I\u2019m just going to do it, for easy math here, 15,000. I mean, that\u2019s it. That\u2019s the ballgame. Your number, just your fixed cost just dropped to 49%. Now, is it going to be 15? I don\u2019t know. But the point is, you can see it changes everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I just don\u2019t want to be miserable 10 to 12 hours a day again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, I don\u2019t want you to be miserable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Every job I\u2019ve had, I\u2019ve been miserable, and I\u2019ve never really been in a position to negotiate because I was running from horrible situations to a new job. So I\u2019ve never been in a position like I\u2019m in a job I really like, and so I can turn down things where I see red flags, which would be nice to do for a change. So that could change everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. I love that. I love your honesty. Hey, Kevin, this is a great opportunity for you. You\u2019re hearing her. It\u2019s a great opportunity for you to step up and take off some of the loads so that she could focus on healthily finding a new job. What can you say to her?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What can I do for you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Take care of the finances. Isn\u2019t that the obvious answer? I don\u2019t know. It\u2019s not rocket science. Um, take care of the finances and just being more helpful with the kids and knowing their schedule and keeping up with all the things.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ebony, you\u2019re in your head. You\u2019re doing this whole spinning thing. Do you notice it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I want you to really think about this. He\u2019s asked an awesome question, and I think he\u2019s willing to play ball here, so get out of the spinning and really think specifically what can he do. He\u2019s asking you, so tell him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, we could start back having weekly family meetings where we discuss a list of what\u2019s going on in the week so that we\u2019re both on the same page, and we can divide up what needs to be done equitably. And maybe you take a larger portion than you normally take. So that would be really helpful.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, I can do that. I\u2019m interested in that. Yes, for sure.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Love it. Love it. Love it. Great response. Ebony, what do you notice about that dynamic that just happened there?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, I asked, and I received.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Exactly.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Told me exactly what you wanted.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Exactly. And he\u2019s happy to do it. Now, I know eventually you want him to be coming up with these things, and that will happen over time. But Ebony, I think this is something for you to really take note of, for you to write it down, for you to talk with your therapist.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And I think that feeling good at home with Kevin taking on, being proactive\u2013 I see Kevin. He\u2019s getting it. He gets it. He\u2019s like, I\u2019m ready.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If that happens, then Ebony, that gives you a little room to explore the market and to be selective.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You said you\u2019ve never had the chance to look for a job because you were always running away from something. Now you have a good situation. I need you to believe that there is a job out there where you can make more and be respected at work. I know it exists. You\u2019ve got to believe it. And I\u2019ve helped a million people find those kinds of jobs. It\u2019s out there. You\u2019ve got to believe it because then you\u2019re going to be searching for it. Okay?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So far what are the key messages you\u2019re taking away from our conversation right now about the money part of it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Tough. It\u2019s a tough conversation to have. It is a complex situation we got.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We created a hot mess.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kevin, how worried are you about your finances on a scale of one to 10? 10 is the most worried.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, I would say about seven. Six or seven.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019re a seven? You don\u2019t sound like a seven.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because, Ramit, at the end of the day, it is going to be fine. We can do this. We are very capable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because right now, did you know that you\u2019re losing money every single month?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, I\u2019m aware.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How much are you losing every month?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, anywhere from, what is it, uh, 500 to 1,200. Some pay period fee on balance. Or you talking about the credit card debt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All of it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, no, I don\u2019t know that amount.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How can you be sure that it\u2019s all going to work out if you don\u2019t even know how much you\u2019re losing every month?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s a great question.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do you know the answer to it? There is an answer as to how you\u2019re able to sleep very soundly at night, even though you\u2019re losing thousands of dollars. Do you know what it is?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What\u2019s that? Because Ebony has it under control.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. So you\u2019ve delegated all that worry over to her, and what did she just tell you just a couple of minutes ago?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She needs help. She needs me to do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:57]\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So you stepping back has put all the burden on her, and she herself has admitted she\u2019s not equipped to do it. She has her own demons that she\u2019s working through.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She needs your help. Are you willing to step up and help?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, I am.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. I appreciate that. Now, Ebony, think carefully about your answer to this question. What would you like Kevin to do to help you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Listen to me explain the system that I have and figure out how he wants to help me with that system, make it more simple.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Kevin, are you in agreement with that? You\u2019ll help her do that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes, I can do that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay, great. And I have a question for you. So this call\u2019s going to end at some point. A couple days from now, you\u2019re going to have this conversation. Let\u2019s say you have a couple, two, three conversations. What are the odds that you end up right back where you were?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I feel like they\u2019re very high. Higher than 50% chance.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Kevin, what do you think?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know. I think we\u2019re going to change because I\u2013 you guys are calling me out, and I don\u2019t appreciate it. It pisses me off, but this is the most in-depth or, I would say, as you\u2019ve been saying all night, this is the most layers we\u2019ve gotten through. I truly didn\u2019t know she was this passionate. And I guess now that we\u2019ve sat here, and the more she\u2019s talked, I\u2019m like, wow. I guess all along she\u2019s been telling me this, and, as you said, I\u2019ve tuned her out or blocked her out and just not listening, but she\u2019s actually been saying it now over three to four months.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Three to four decades.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. I truly love mine. I love Ebony. She is so awesome. I love my wife. And like I said, I want to do the right thing. I want to help. And I don\u2019t want her to feel that way. I\u2019ll be honest. I didn\u2019t know it was this deep. I was aware of the money. I\u2019ve seen what we have, and we definitely got to do something different. But yeah, I didn\u2019t know the emotional depth of everything that\u2019s going on right now. I\u2019m going to have to step up. I\u2019m sorry you feel that way. I didn\u2019t know it was this bad.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How do you receive that, Ebony?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel seen for the first time in a long time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And heard.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I love that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel like that\u2019s been the most breakthrough we\u2019ve had.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That is a huge breakthrough. Kevin. My man. The two of you are obviously very loving, and that was the first conversation about money where I could see it. Kevin, I saw you feeling genuinely hurt, realizing how deep it goes for Ebony.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And Ebony, I heard you receive what he said open arms. It was just, thank you. I feel seen. I feel heard. That\u2019s beautiful. I\u2019d like for you two to be able to continue to have conversations like that. Wouldn\u2019t it feel good?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So how can you do that? This was a beautiful moment, a flash of what\u2019s possible. And if you could do that 90% of the time, gosh, it would transform everything. I have no doubt that the rest of your debt would start to go down way more, way faster if the two of you were talking like that 90% of the time. It\u2019s more important than the $25 expenses. It\u2019s more important than the Excel spreadsheets. It\u2019s more important than your kids\u2019 sports. It\u2019s more important than everything, is the two of you being able to communicate in a healthy way.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Healthy way, Ebony. We got to remember that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Definitely. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s the key.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I mean, I feel like there\u2019s nothing the two of us can\u2019t do together as a team.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think that was a really beautiful demonstration of their love for each other. Kevin really showed up. For our entire conversation, he said he\u2019s willing to help, but it was really in those last few minutes that he acknowledged he could do more. And he seemed to get it. I\u2019ll take the win. And Ebony, she\u2019s changing the way she communicates. She\u2019s asking for what she wants. As time goes on, my wish is that she starts to see how her identity has caused her to pile on so many different things that she\u2019s now wearing, all parts of her identity. And that maybe it\u2019s okay to ask for help.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:07:18] Now, if it were me, let me just tell you what I would do. I would dramatically simplify the way that we handled finances. I would just throw out this complicated budget, use the system from the IWT book, Chapter 4, stop trying to reinvent the wheel. I would then have a series of clear conversations about who does what. And I would write it down on paper, not use a lot of complicated words.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:07:40] If I was Ebony, I would start off by asking Kevin to take on something small. I would set him up to win. I would celebrate that win within five to seven days, and then I would work together on making money management much more equitable. If I were Ebony, I would immediately look for a new job. If a 2X salary increases on the table, take it. An increase like that could change everything for them.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:05] I\u2019m going to throw a link in my show notes to my dream job program, which routinely helps people get 10,000 raises, 25,000 raises, even more, including helping you discover what your dream job even is. Now, let me show you what they sent me after our conversation. Let\u2019s start with Kevin\u2019s video follow-up. And you can head over to YouTube to watch and to listen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kevin:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What surprised me was the level of patience that, uh, Ramit exercised with my wife and I, and the level of in-depth questioning that he was able to, um, bring to the surface some things that I didn\u2019t realize was there and how it impacted not only my wife, but um, our marriage.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:50] One of the biggest takeaways was that my wife needs me. Um, she needs me to step up, uh, relieve some of this financial stress that, um, we have in our marriage, uh, take more of a leader role, or even an active role. Um, I didn\u2019t realize the depth of her frustration, um, or hurt, but now I do. I\u2019m up for the challenge.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:16] Although we have much work to do, I really think we can do this in the short-term and long-term and, um, change everything around. And specific change, basically, we\u2019re going to communicate more. Um, not only come up with the new financial strategies that involve both of us. Not one of us. Also stop using credit cards, possibly new jobs, and a debt relief plan, um, that we can be out of debt within, uh, a year or two.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Next up, Ebony\u2019s follow up.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ebony:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What surprised me the most was definitely how hurt I was and how immature I was behaving. Um, and that my budget wasn\u2019t working, my spreadsheet wasn\u2019t helping. That was a surprise. No, I\u2019m just kidding. I knew it wasn\u2019t working, which was why I reached out. Um, but I had some key takeaways, and it was just that the problem was much deeper than just money and finances that it\u2019s like, um, more so a reflection of some issues that have been going on, um, inside of my marriage for a few years, and I haven\u2019t really been attending to them.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:10:44] Kevin and I are definitely going to couples counseling, and we also are going to work on coming up with a plan together. I\u2019ve already given him a list, and we are talking about what things on the list, realistically, he can take off of my shoulders, so free up some time for me to find, uh, a better paying job. And I realized I deserve an equal partner. We both needed the wake-up call, and thank you for being so direct.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:11:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I want to thank Ebony and Kevin again for their honesty and openness in our conversation. This was a challenging conversation, and I like that. You both came here. You needed help. You were ready to change. That\u2019s why I do this podcast. So thank you for showing up, and thank you to everyone for listening and watching. And the last thing I want you to do, go to iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter. I send out a weekly newsletter on money psychology. You will not find it anywhere else. You can only get it at iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:2,&quot;335551620&quot;:2,&quot;335559685&quot;:300,&quot;335559737&quot;:300,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\ufeff &nbsp; Kevin and Ebony are both 52. They have two kids, both young adults, and have turned their attention to retirement planning. But standing in the way are $135,000 of debt, a recurring issue, and 29 years of deeply ingrained negative communication patterns when it comes to money.\u00a0 This episode is brought to you [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119013","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119013","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119013"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119013\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119013"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119013"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}