{"id":119020,"date":"2023-07-11T12:57:26","date_gmt":"2023-07-11T16:57:26","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119020"},"modified":"2025-04-07T10:09:29","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:09:29","slug":"112-mike-kate","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/112-mike-kate\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 112. \u201cI pretend I want to change. But I refuse to do anything different\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cI pretend I want to change. But I refuse to do anything different\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/hehFnT1LE0g\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/1BL9WzqaGrifH0IXd3CQbL\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">This conversation with Mike and Kate brings a completely new, and shocking, outcome to the podcast. They\u2019re 29 and 32, with some massive life changes on the horizon. But they can\u2019t save any money and lack the financial discipline to make real change for the sake of their family.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">This episode is brought to you by:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">LMNT | Right now, LMNT is offering 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. 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Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Masterclass | For unlimited access to every class and 15% off an annual membership, go to\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/masterclass.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">BetterHelp | Visit\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/betterhelp.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/betterhelp.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0today to get 10% off your first month.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Show Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1DTrsPdMMixIFIOfCaVr3GSH0QbymHcRk\/view?usp=sharing\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Part of me is resentful to Mike that he wanted this house so bad and that now we have all these things to maintain. Renting was easier. Some days I\u2019m like, God, I just want to move back into our camper van so we can travel the country. This just feels like a burden. This isn\u2019t necessarily what I wanted. Yeah. We did decide to do this together. Part of me is like, I just did this for you.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0There was a lot of time to bring these concerns up in the process of buying the house and to really stop us there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, and I remember a lot of fights about it too. And I don\u2019t feel like my needs are important.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think because I\u2019m just so resentful about it that I\u2019m like, screw it all.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And how can you do this with the two of you and you\u2019re about to incur more stress than you\u2019ve ever had in your life with a baby?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m terrified.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Are you terrified enough to make a change?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019d like you to meet Mike, who\u2019s 29, and Kate, who is 32. Mike is a chef, and Kate is a wellness advisor for a spa resort. Now, in their application, they wrote this sentence describing their situation. He wrote, \u201cWe are closing on a house next week, and also just found out she\u2019s pregnant.\u201d I think today you\u2019re going to be quite surprised with the direction of this conversation, so let\u2019s jump right in.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How long until the baby comes?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Due date is beginning of September.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And financially speaking, what has changed since you found out you were pregnant?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Two weeks after we were pregnant, we closed on our first home.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That is a fixer upper. And our home is important to us because we have\u2013 it\u2019s a very small house, but it\u2019s on a lot of land because being able to provide food for ourselves through farming is also really important. So that way we don\u2019t have to rely on the grocery store as much anymore. That was the motivating factor of our house, was that it\u2019s a small house. Perfect. Not a lot to maintain. It wasn\u2019t maintained though, so there is a lot to put into it, financially. And it all happened at the same time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. You bought a house. You found out you were pregnant.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And so what brings you here? Why now?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, well, I feel like we were doing really well until we got the house. I had read your book, and I had automated investing, automated savings, and I had a pretty good savings. I had some investments, and I pretty much used all of it to get the house. And I was the one that was really keeping track of our money, in conflict with Kate overspending.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And then once we got the house and I abandoned the automation and all that, now she\u2019s the one that is keeping track of the money, and worrying about credit, and, uh, just looking up at it. And I have almost given up. Just said, okay, you\u2019re in charge of the money now. And I don\u2019t like that we\u2019re not really on the same page about it. And I guess there\u2019s something going on there with me that just, I don\u2019t know. I gave up when we got the house. It took so much to get the house that I felt defeated, and it was like, oh, this work has gone to nothing. And now it\u2019s like all the money is going towards fixing up the house.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Did you expect this when you went to buy the house, how much it was going to cost for the down payment and all that stuff?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And I was like, well, I have this savings. That\u2019s what it\u2019s for. And I have this investment. That\u2019s what it\u2019s for, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And then what changed?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, I don\u2019t know. All the work of the house, I guess.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Expected, or not expected?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, I expected to handle it easier, I think.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why\u2019d you buy the house?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The land, so that way we can have farm. We just got chickens today. Um, but mostly the land, so that way we can provide food for our family.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And this idea of providing food, did you both grow up doing something similar?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, that\u2019s interesting. Do you think that there\u2019s a financial conflict here?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, we just got on the same page, but we were arguing over, uh, buying a mattress. There was some conflict around, I wanted one, she didn\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. Walk me through it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think Kate actually brought up the mattress first, sent me the link to the mattress, and then I was like, yeah, let\u2019s do it. It was a pretty expensive mattress. And I think what brought\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hold on. How expensive?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, ended up being like 23, 22. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. That\u2019s a good price mattress. And so what happened then?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I said, let\u2019s do it. And, um, we had to put it on a credit card. We actually used a payment plan, the Affirm thing through\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh God.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Online or whatever.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Both of us put a lot of emphasis into quality products that are non-toxic. And I\u2019m pregnant and have a baby, and the baby\u2019s going to be in our room, and I don\u2019t want those off-gassing chemicals. And so that was what was most important to me in a mattress, regardless of the price.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. How did you decide how much you could afford? Can I go out on a limb and guess?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Can I guess that you had problems sleeping, you said, we got to get a new mattress, you found a mattress you liked, and cost wasn\u2019t really part of the equation at all?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow. That\u2019s so shocking. And was there any point where either one was like, 2,400 bucks, that\u2019s a lot. Could we get one for less?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, yeah, that did come up, but we wanted a mattress that didn\u2019t have, uh, that was a little safer and more natural.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay, so let me ask you, Kate, where\u2019s the conflict here? It sounds like one person wanted a new mattress, you both found one, you bought it, and you can afford it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think it\u2019s more within ourselves than anything. Even more than with each other.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What is it within you? You don\u2019t want to have a payment plan? Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. So I\u2019ve always just been\u2013 when money comes in, I\u2019ll save what I can, but I am here to enjoy my life. And now I\u2019m like, oh my God, we have no savings, and we have a baby coming, and I\u2019m going to have a cut in pay. And so now I have this inner turmoil of, I can\u2019t believe I haven\u2019t been saving more my whole life. I\u2019m fearful of not being able to provide for our child.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, you\u2019re going to be able to provide food. You got the chickens.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So what are you fearful of not being able to provide?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0There are a few moments in people\u2019s lives where they really genuinely care about money, and the major ones are getting married, having children, as you just heard Kate say, getting divorced, and retiring. But because most of us don\u2019t really actively think about money on a regular basis, we don\u2019t actually know how to act in those moments. It would be like me asking you, how are you going to react next time you get in a car crash? You\u2019re like, I don\u2019t know. You\u2019ve probably never been in one.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">In times of uncertainty, we look to other people for cues, and this is why the first time you eat at a fancy restaurant, you observe the person next to you and see how they use their fork. And it\u2019s also why people say identical phrases when it comes to moments like having children. They\u2019ll say things like, I want to provide for our kids. I want to give them everything I didn\u2019t have. I don\u2019t want them to struggle like I did. And my favorite one of all, now that we\u2019re having kids, we need a house with a lawn and an SUV.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Do you? Do you really? And what does providing for a child mean? Can we get specific? These are the conversations that are so important to have before one of these life situations happens to you. Otherwise, you might find yourself just looking to others for cues and doing exactly what everybody else does.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Security and stability.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What does that mean?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We are choosing to spend more money on\u2013 we put a lot of emphasis on spending on our grocery budget so that way we can buy good food. I am afraid that\u2019s going to go away especially because we\u2019re just starting our farm, and, um, I\u2019m putting that above paying my loans. I\u2019m just not paying them right now. And so I\u2019m making that choice, but then that becomes like, what if these things get taken away from me because I\u2019m not paying what I\u2019m supposed to be on my student loans because I\u2019m not paying those right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have a lot of conflict about that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It doesn\u2019t sound like you\u2019re conflicted.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel conflicted. Not even conflicted. I feel fearful that my choices are going to backfire on me because I just don\u2019t know yet.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, it just feels like I need to go get more money to make her feel safer and to make us\u2013 I mean, I feel the same way. I feel concerned that having a baby\u2019s going to cost us a lot more money, and we\u2019re going to need more.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And you probably are. So what are you going to do about that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Looking at buying a diner.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What? What the fuck?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Starting a restaurant. I\u2019m a chef. Starting my own restaurant.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wait, what? Have you run a restaurant before?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You ran it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I didn\u2019t own it, but I ran it. Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Did it make money?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. A lot of money.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. Fine. Uh, good. All right, so that\u2019s an option. You want to earn more money. Theoretically, you might start a restaurant. Okay. Would that solve the problem here? Trying to understand the real problem. You bought a house. You\u2019re having a baby. You bought a $2,400 bed. What\u2019s the problem?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We\u2019re racking up debt and not able to rack up savings.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I agree with that. Kate, do you agree with that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0A 100%.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And is that a problem?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It is. Why Kate?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because a couple years ago, I was making a lot of money. I started my own business while I was doing that, and I was spending money. I was still earning $55 an hour and wrapped up incredible debt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How much debt?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Total, 27,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is that credit card debt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Credit card debt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. In how long?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Six months.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm. Okay. And is that debt still around?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0$17,000 left. Um, but both of those credit cards closed because I wasn\u2019t making payments, and so I\u2019m very fearful of that happening again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why are you fearful? What was the consequence for you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t even know why I care about this so much, but my credit score tanked, and now I couldn\u2019t even\u2013 I\u2019m not on our mortgage. I\u2019m on our deed, but I\u2019m not on our mortgage because no one will approve me because my credit is shot and I don\u2019t have great payment history. That limits me in being able to help Mike with certain things, even though I\u2019m still paying half of everything I need to pay. Um, but I\u2019m not on the mortgage because they won\u2019t approve me. Nobody will approve me for anything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What do you think of your relationship with money, Kate? How would you describe it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s changed. I used to be like, whatever, it comes easily. Money flows in, money flows out. And then since being pregnant, that has drastically changed. And now I\u2019m like, oh my God, money doesn\u2019t flow in anymore. It\u2019s not as easy as it once was. Now I have a human growing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t have that same mindset of like, easy come, easy go, which was my mindset for 30 years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. What is your mindset now, if you had to describe it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All I can think of is it\u2019s like I\u2019m holding on dear life and just extremely rooted in fear. I know exactly what\u2019s in our account. I know exactly where everything\u2019s going every month. I\u2019m paying attention to it more than I ever have. I feel like I was spending money on things I didn\u2019t necessarily value before, and that didn\u2019t really make me feel like I was living the rich life that I wanted to live. And now I\u2019m definitely spending money more on what I value and what makes me feel like I\u2019m having a rich life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t think anything we\u2019ve talked about today is about you not spending money on a rich life. You bought a house because it\u2019s about your values with food. You bought mattress because it\u2019s about your values with health. I don\u2019t that\u2019s the question at all. I think you yourself have told me you\u2019re fearful because you don\u2019t have money coming in and you don\u2019t have any savings, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, that\u2019s also a huge part. We have $0 in savings.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So isn\u2019t that a bigger problem than living your rich life when you have a baby and $17,000 of debt? Why are we not talking about that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. That\u2019s a huge thing. I just pretend it\u2019s not there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, I can tell, and it\u2019s a problem. We\u2019ve been talking now for quite a while, and I\u2019m trying to get you to tell me what the real problem is, but when I ask, you have a variety of techniques you use to dance around the topic. Actually, my behavior is better than it used to be. I\u2019m actually spending money meaningfully. If you can\u2019t get honest with yourself and with me, then we don\u2019t really have a chance of making a change here. So would you like to take another crack at this? Kate, are you good with money?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m working on it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s an interesting answer, but not what I asked.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m not confident in being good at it at all.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. How would I know if you were good?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. If I was paying all my loans. If I was paying every bill that we actually had.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. That would be good. What else?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, one thing I have done over the past couple months is automate everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Don\u2019t tell me what you\u2019ve done. I want to know how would I know if you were good. Notice. What\u2019s happening right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m dancing around it. Yeah, my student loan debt and my credit card debt terrify me, and I\u2019m completely ignoring them. I\u2019m not making payments on any of that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And what happens if you keep not making payments on them.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I honestly don\u2019t know. Nothing\u2019s happened with my credit cards.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mike, listening to this, how does this strike you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s nothing I don\u2019t know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019re not surprised?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Not really surprising. No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. Are you concerned hearing Kate\u2019s answers?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, yeah. I mean, I\u2019ve been concerned this\u2013 when we got to know each other, she had all of her student loan debt that was also unmanageable, and it\u2019s been that way pretty much since I knew her.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How long you two known each other, and then, um, when did you both get\u2013 are you married?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. How long did you know each other before you got married?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Eight years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And how long you been married for?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019ll be two years in August.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right, so Mike, when you met Kate, she had unmanageable student loans. Did that concern you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. It took us a really long time to combine finances because I was afraid of that as well, of getting into that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Did you tell her?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I told her that I have my own debts, and I\u2019m working on paying that stuff off. And since she was not paying that stuff off, I said I didn\u2019t want to help her until she did start paying it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Then what happened?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, she paid them a couple of months maybe, and then we both, after much hesitation, combined finances, and now all of the debt is just both of ours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why did you combine?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We were married. It felt like we should.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. All right. Mike, when I asked you how it feels to hear Kate\u2019s answers, you said you\u2019re not surprised. You\u2019ve heard it before, I\u2019m sure. I\u2019m hearing this for the first time. I\u2019m surprised, and I\u2019m troubled. I\u2019m troubled because Kate doesn\u2019t really know the consequences of not paying the debt off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And in fact, you\u2019re pretty candid, Kate, that nothing really bad has happened. They\u2019ll send you more urgent envelopes, and you\u2019re supposed to pay, and you pay a little bit, and then you buy yourself a few more months of reprieve. That can work for a while, but it\u2019s not really a way to build a healthy family, certainly not a way to build healthy finances. Do you care?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So much.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm, I don\u2019t know. You do? Tell me how I would know if I walked into your household with a clipboard. How would I know that you care about building a healthy relationship with money?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know if you would.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Why is that? Why are you dancing around\u2013 I mean, I\u2019m not trying to judge you here. I\u2019m trying to understand what\u2019s going on. So why do you think that you are dancing with your answers?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t think I\u2019m looking deep enough to find the truth.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because I don\u2019t want to know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. Because if you find out, what would it mean?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That I have to take responsibility.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0This is extremely fascinating to me. Notice that Kate has created a cobweb of techniques to shield herself from being honest about their money. And to tell you the truth, most of the time, her separate reality works just fine. It\u2019s only now that she\u2019s starting to feel actual consequences with a baby on the way.\u00a0 She reacts extremely unpredictably using words like fearful and admitting she doesn\u2019t really want to know about her finances because then she\u2019d have to take responsibility.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">There are literally tens of millions of people in America in the same situation, and the truth is throwing a budget at them won\u2019t work. Throwing a compound interest chart at them won\u2019t work. They\u2019re not even at the how stage. In fact, many of them don\u2019t even realize what the actual problem is. They just feel bad, and they don\u2019t know how to interpret that feeling or make sense of it. If you\u2019re single, you can get by in this reality distortion field for a long time. But she\u2019s married, and they\u2019re having a baby, and now they\u2019re facing severe consequences. And I think the worst one of all is that Mike has basically given up on caring about money in their relationship.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019ve gone the other way where she used to be and just go, I\u2019m not looking at it, and I don\u2019t think you would find anything that shows that I care about money now other than trying to be on the show.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019re checked out of money in your relationship. Am I reading that right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mostly, yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Are you checked out because you spent all the money you had saved and invested on this house and now it doesn\u2019t feel good?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Are you checked out at all because of Kate\u2019s relationship with money?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think a little bit is that she\u2019s picked up the slack now where she\u2019s looking at the checking account and saying, okay, we have this to spend, and that\u2019s spend, and here\u2019s the bills coming up. I am like, all right, well, Kate\u2019s worrying about it, so I don\u2019t need to.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So Kate has now taken over that role. Is she good at it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, yeah, I\u2019d say so.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. How would you know if she\u2019s good?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, they haven\u2019t taken our house.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow, it\u2019s a bit of a low bar, don\u2019t you think?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is that a joke, or are you serious?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I mean, we have money for food, and we have money for gas, and we can pay most of our bills, not including our debts, but we can do what we need to do.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. For me, paying the bills is not being good with money. That\u2019s a bare minimum. It\u2019s table stakes. It\u2019s like if I asked\u2013 you\u2019re about to become parents, and if I said, um, are you a good parent? And you said, yes, I feed my baby. Is that enough to be a good parent?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. So why would we apply the same thing to our money? Have you two talked about your parenting style?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We\u2019ve started too.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Has that series of conversations surprised you at all?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Not really. I think that\u2019s something both of us have talked deeply about before, um, from our own personal wounds as children.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, and how we were parented.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Got it. Okay, great. I\u2019m glad to hear you\u2019re having those conversations. Have you ever had similar conversations about money?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate, how were you raised? What do you remember about money as a child?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was a source of stress, and my parents would also do whatever they could to make sure my brother and I could do whatever activities we wanted to do, no matter what the price was. And I was not allowed to have a job.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why is that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, my mom strongly believed that when you\u2019re a kid, you\u2019re a kid, and you don\u2019t have to work. But I also, now as an adult, feel like it was a form of control.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Control in the sense of?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I need her.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh. You can\u2019t have a job because you\u2019re a kid. But secretly, you can\u2019t have a job because that would mean you have money, you have independence, you have other things to do besides depending on me.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And that\u2019s why I went to college?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Did you go away for college?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Was that a source of conflict in your family?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh yeah. My mom wanted to keep us as close as possible.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And I was only allowed to go to school four hours away, which was fine. I went to school for dance in New York City, and that\u2019s what I wanted to do, but I didn\u2019t want to go to school. I just wanted to move there and start dancing. And when I told her that, it was a huge fight, and she was like, if you don\u2019t go to college, you\u2019re not getting any money from us anymore. And I didn\u2019t have a job. I had no idea how to make money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How\u2019d you do it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Student loans.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What do those student loans represent to you now?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Anger and resentment.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Tell me.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m so angry that I have this debt that I never wanted, and that when I first\u2013 my freshman year, I had no concept of money because it\u2019s not a conversation in my household, and I wasn\u2019t allowed to have a job. And my first year was $30,000 as loans, and my parents never raised a red flag. They were like, yeah, that\u2019s fine. And so I now have $130,000 of student loans, and I have a Bachelor of Fine Arts and Dance.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Are your parents wealthy?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, they\u2019re upper middle class.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Could they have paid for your college?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They paid $10,000 a year, and that\u2019s what they said they would pay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And what is their financial status now?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t really know. Um, my mom just retired. I know now she\u2019s all of a sudden having budgets, and, oh, I can only spend this much on you for Christmas. I can only spend this much on you for your birthday. They also live a life I don\u2019t want. Um, so I don\u2019t really look at what they do for money. My mom is a shopper, and just growing up was constantly shopping, constantly buying stuff for the house, constantly spending money on things. I\u2019m like, why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0For example, would she buy a $2,400 mattress?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, but they\u2019ll spend money on a $25,000 car. We pay for our cars in cash because we don\u2019t want the debt. To me, that seems a lot.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Holdon. What the hell? You pay for your cars in cash because you don\u2019t want the debt, but you pay for a mattress with two years of debt.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know. Well, we bought the cars before we, uh, or the car, um, I just don\u2019t\u2013 that\u2019s also why I was so hesitant about the mattress. I don\u2019t want to add another bill to my plate. I don\u2019t want have another payment. I did because I realized that us fighting every single night was not going to work. Me getting terrible sleep was not going to work. Me freaking out about a mattress laid in with chemicals that\u2019s going to harm us and the baby was not going to work.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate, how about having tens of thousands of dollars of debt? Is that going to work?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, it\u2019s not working.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It seems to me that that\u2019s the only one that you allowed to play out, to just add onto the debt.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Totally. I think because I\u2019m just so resentful about it that I\u2019m like, screw it all.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How old are you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019ll be 33 in two weeks.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It sounds like, in a way, your philosophy with money is, I\u2019ve already lost the game, so I give up. I\u2019m just going to basically play it out until something bad happens to me.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, that sounds accurate.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Now, if you were alone, I would say, all right, Kate, well, it\u2019s your money. It\u2019s not mine. If you want to play that type of game, good luck. But the issue is you are married to Mike, and you have a baby on the way.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So what may seem fun, and flippant, and something people do in their 20s in New York is actually not that fun. And it\u2019s not cool when you have a family, especially when you are the one who earns the primary income. But you don\u2019t need me to tell you that, do you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m so glad I get the chance to dive deeper into people\u2019s backgrounds on this show. See, if you heard just the first 20 minutes of today\u2019s conversation, you might dismiss Kate. But now we learn her parents\u2019 role in her taking on $130,000 of debt with a BA in fine Arts and Dance.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Now, we also recognize that she could have taken more responsibility to learn about these debts before she signed the papers. And we can understand why she resents her debt, even hates it, so much so that she simply avoids it. And because her parents never talked about money and she never really learned how it works, she suddenly arrived at this place where they\u2019re low on savings, in debt, with a baby on the way, and she has no idea how she should react.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Even though we\u2019ve been together for a decade, I\u2019m still trying to hide flaws and things that I feel very insecure about and pretend I\u2019m not.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. And you haven\u2019t had any consequences, right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, there haven\u2019t been any consequences.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Your parents said, we\u2019re giving you 10k. You stayed at college, incurred a lot of debt, still got a car, still got a house, still got groceries. What\u2019s the problem?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The problem for me now is, now with the house, it\u2019s choosing to have a functioning bathroom or pay my loan.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And how do you make that decision?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I make that decision by, what do I feel like I need more at the moment? This is an either-or situation. What\u2019s more important to me right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Would you say that\u2019s a pattern that you\u2019ve had for a long time?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What\u2019s more important to me?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The consequences are that we\u2019re not able to build a rich life because we\u2019re always behind.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What do you mean? She told me that she got the mattress, and the house, and the groceries. She\u2019s spending more consciously. Sounds like she\u2019s got a rich life.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I wouldn\u2019t say that. I think that there\u2019s a lot more that we want to do with our money and with our lives than just get the groceries and just pay the bills.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel incredibly selfish for the debt that I\u2019ve racked up. And so I put off paying it off because I feel like it\u2019s not fair for this $1,200 a month in payments that I\u2019m supposed to be making to be going towards the debt that I\u2019ve racked up because it was all\u2013 student loans were before. My credit cards were during Mike. Um, but it feels selfish. We don\u2019t have high income. It is week to week. Uh, everything. We\u2019re paycheck to paycheck. It feels like this need and this desire that I need to pay these bills shouldn\u2019t fall on Mike. And so I just ignore them because I\u2019m like, well, it\u2019s not hurting Mike. It\u2019s only hurting me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate, can you talk to Mike?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. It\u2019s only hurting me, not you.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It does hurt me though. It hurts us both as a family, and I know that it\u2019s hurting you. It causes a lot of conflict about what we want, and what we can afford, and whether we\u2019re fixing that bathroom or paying your loans. And then when we say, all right, we\u2019re going to do the bathroom, then you\u2019ve expressed that you\u2019ve felt left out because we\u2019re choosing to ignore your loans.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t ever want to make my debt a priority when everything is a necessity at the moment.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mike, ask her if that will ever change.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Will that ever change?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Unless we find ways to drastically increase our income, I don\u2019t think so.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Even when we have had a lot more income than this, the loans have always been at the bottom of the pile. There\u2019s always been something more important than the loans. There\u2019s never been enough to throw at them, no matter how much we make.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. The payment feels incredibly unmanageable, and it feels like it\u2019s always such a huge chunk of our income to put\u2013 my minimum payment is $850. That seems incredibly unmanageable when that\u2019s one of our paychecks for the week. And so it always just feels like, okay, this has to come last because what else are we going to do? This is a huge payment that I don\u2019t know how we\u2019re going to\u2013 if we decide to pay this, how are we going to pay for food? How are you going to pay for gas to get to work?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mike, go back to your question.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is this ever going to change? Will we ever be able to put money towards those loans and towards that debt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If our current reality stays the same, no.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mike, how does that answer strike you? I feel like that\u2019s one of the first honest things Kate has really come out and said. Thank you, Kate, for saying that. Tell her.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That strikes me as defeated.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Tell me how you feel, not about her.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel defeated.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel like I don\u2019t know how to change things, and I don\u2019t know how we\u2019ll ever get to pay those loans either.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Both of you look defeated right now. Am I reading that correctly?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Feel good or bad?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Pretty bad.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mike, I\u2019m going to take your perspective for just a second, as if I heard my partner, Kate, just say, I don\u2019t really think things will change in our current situation, etc. And my answer would be, that\u2019s just not acceptable to me. I\u2019m just not willing to live that kind of life. We\u2019re too young. We\u2019re too smart to give up on life in our early 30s with a baby on the way. I\u2019m not going to do it, and I won\u2019t allow you to do it either. Mike, what would it feel like if you said that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Confident. Strong.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. You ever feel like that in a different part of life?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. In the kitchen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Tell me about that. What do you feel? How would you describe yourself there?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel like no matter what comes up or whatever challenges come my way, that I know that I\u2019ll be able to figure them out.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hell yeah. You get buried in there, you get too many orders, you\u2019re missing some ingredient, you can figure it out, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. Translate that to money here for a second. You don\u2019t even have to believe it. Just play for a couple of minutes here. Take that same energy and bring it back to this conversation.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think that no matter how deep we get, we\u2019re going to be able to get out of it. It\u2019s not a matter of if, it\u2019s just when we figure it out. We\u2019ll get through this, and whether we have to\u2013 whatever it is that we have to do, we know that we can do it. We\u2019ve done it for our whole lives. We\u2019ve been getting through it, and we\u2019ll continue to keep doing that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have a hard time believing it right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, me too.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Me too.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel like we\u2019re stuck in the trap of like, we need a house. We need these certain things because that\u2019s what normal people do. And I don\u2019t want that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What? What do you mean? You told me. I asked you twice.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I know. Part of me does.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">You told me I bought the house because of land, and it\u2019s very important for us to not be food insecure and to grow our own stuff.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is that true or not true?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Some days it\u2019s true, and some days I\u2019m like, God, I just want to move back into our camper van so we can travel the country. That\u2019s what I loved. But there was also a lot of sacrifices that had to be made that didn\u2019t always make Mike happy. So now I feel like this house was\u2013 I\u2019m always trying to look for the benefits, but part of it is also like, this just feels like a burden. This isn\u2019t necessarily what I wanted.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. Is there anything in between a camper van and a house, a fixer upper on a ton of land? Is there any possible different type of option in between the two, say, something that 99% of America lives in?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. We\u2019ve rented so much before, and honestly, part of me is resentful to Mike that he wanted this house so bad and that now we have all these things to maintain. Renting was easier.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Who decided to buy the house?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know Mike wants to say we decided to do this together. Yeah, we did decide to do this together, um, and part of me is like, I just did this for you.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think you would\u2019ve said the same thing in a rental. And it was like we have all these short-term rentals and the instability of\u2013 I think it was the baby. It was the, okay, we\u2019re going to get married, and have a baby, and get a house, and get some stability, and start making money, and farm our own land, and be able to sustain ourselves. And that was why we got the house with the lots of land, with the farm. There was a lot of time to bring these concerns up in the process of buying the house and to really stop us there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, and I remember a lot of fights about it too, and I don\u2019t feel like my needs are important.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What are your needs?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve really given enough time to figure it out.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, Kate, you got a baby on the way. It\u2019s time to think about it now.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And I think that\u2019s why our conflict is arising, because now I\u2019m like, okay, what do I really want? What do I want to display for this baby? Because I can say things all day, but he\u2019s going to do what we do.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So Kate, can you answer Mike\u2019s question?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What are your needs?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t even know what my needs look like. Paying our bills. Paying my student loans is a huge one, and my credit card debt is a huge one. And I did, when we moved to the Berkshires. I started paying it, and you were pissed at me because that money couldn\u2019t go towards a down payment, and so I stopped. It was a huge fight. You were pissed. So I stopped paying.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I just want to point out this dynamic that\u2019s going on here. Mike is genuinely trying to understand your needs, and Kate, in your response, you\u2019ve now turned your answer and weaponized it about something Mike did wrong.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Are you getting anywhere with this?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why are you doing it then?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Think about it. Why did you just answer his very genuine question with your response?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel like I need to protect myself because even though it wasn\u2019t an attack, it was just asking me genuinely, what are your needs, it feels really uncomfortable to even know what my needs are.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because I\u2019ve never even made myself a priority.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why not?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t feel like I deserve it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Where do you think that comes from?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0A really deep-seated belief from my childhood. That growing up I felt like every move I made wasn\u2019t for me. It was for my mom.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. You still in touch with your mom?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Sometimes not willingly.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019re in therapy also, right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Just had therapy today, and this was our, uh, main conversation.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m glad to hear that. Has that been helping?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Good.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0A lot.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Are you doing that solo, or are you doing it jointly?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Right now we\u2019re both solo, and we have been both doing solo therapy. I\u2019ve been in about three months. Mike\u2019s been doing it for about two months, and we feel like we\u2019re ready to start doing couples.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Great. I\u2019m really happy to hear that.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m always happy to hear that people who come on the show are seeing a therapist. And you\u2019ll notice that once she mentioned it, I backed off of the topic of her mom because that\u2019s between Kate and her therapist. One thing I do want to point out is how I think this podcast fits into the world of self-development and mental health, including therapy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">First off, I\u2019m not a therapist. I have seen a therapist, and on this show, I frequently recommend that lots of guests go and see one as well. I think that we have a lot of options when it comes to improve ourselves. We can get books, we can listen to podcasts, we can hire coaches, and trainers, and therapists, but the honest truth is that most people won\u2019t hire a therapist.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">It\u2019s expensive. It\u2019s hard to find one, and worst of all, therapy is stigmatized in our country, which is exactly why I like to talk about it so openly. I think there are different levels of help that we can all use. Some of us start with an audiobook. Others join a coaching program. Many people start listening to this podcast thinking they have some esoteric financial problem only to realize that they actually need more ongoing help from a therapist.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Great. To all of those situations. I want to always be honest about who I am, and what I do, and where my circle of competence starts and ends. And I want to give a big thank you to all the therapists who listen to this show and send me your notes. I appreciate you and support the important work that you do.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate, I\u2019m sure that you\u2019ll be spending a lot of time with your therapist discussing these things. I don\u2019t want to impede on that at all, in terms of your parental upbringing, but I am very curious from here, moving forward, what are the effects of the way that you treat money on your relationship with Mike?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So what came up in therapy today was that this fear just ends up coming out as anger, and it\u2019s just constant anger.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mike, you feel that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Yeah. And I feel resented just like the loans.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm. That\u2019s interesting. And Kate, do you want that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. What do you want? What type of relationship would you want with Mike?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0More compassionate, and more loving, and more open.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I love those descriptions. Would you be willing to try to embody those for a minute or two right now with me?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Mike, can you ask that same question again? And this time, Kate, give me those three words that you\u2019re going to embody again.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Compassionate, loving, and open.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Beautiful. Go ahead, Mike.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What are your needs, and how can we help you get there?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I need to feel enough. I need to feel important and like I matter. I feel really resentful that you have cut back on working so much, and I feel like me and the baby aren\u2019t important. Part of me feels really resented because even though you knew about my debt, my debt doesn\u2019t matter, and that I\u2019m just a burden. My debt and me are a burden.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I understand why you would feel like your debt and you are a burden, but I would like to know how I can make you feel enough and why you feel so little and so small.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s a good question. Um, I don\u2019t really know exactly why I feel so small. I think a lot of it has nothing to do with you. And at the same time, it all does because I found somebody that kept recreating the beliefs I already have about myself, and I\u2019ve never felt like I was important. Even when it comes down to that stupid bachelor party, I still don\u2019t feel important.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What would feeling important look like?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When I ask for something, actually listening and honoring it. I\u2019ve been asking for help bringing in more income for months, and it hasn\u2019t happened, and that feels really stressful.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Can I step in for a second?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Thank you for this conversation. It feels honest. It does feel open, so I really appreciate that. I want to recognize both of you. Mike, Kate has mentioned the income part of this equation. Is that a fair assessment, what she\u2019s saying, that your income hasn\u2019t gone up and you could if you wanted to?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I definitely have been bringing in less, and it\u2019s been with the intention, and I\u2019ve made this clear, to find better ways to bring in money in ways that make me happier. And I have started the side hustle, the dog boarding thing, and that\u2019s brought in some money. I\u2019ve got another job lined up, and I have things coming. I just feel like it might be not enough. I have heard you that you need more money, and that we need more money as a family.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do you all know how much you need, or is this just, uh, more?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, after looking at the conscious spending plan and filling it out, we got really discouraged because it was a significant amount more. More than I would be able to make just working in a restaurant being a chef. And that\u2019s why I\u2019ve branched off and cut back the hours to try to find other ways to bring in that amount of money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. So to answer my question again, what\u2019s the number you need?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate has it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It is curious to me, as Kate\u2019s pulling us up, that, Mike, you don\u2019t know the amount that you are \u201csupposed to bring in\u201d. Kate knows it. Do you find that curious?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. When we first filled out that conscious spending plan, it was like, holy crap, that\u2019s more money than I could bring in. So then it just became one of those, I\u2019m not even going to look at it things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So both of you do this thing where when the news gets bad you just ignore it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, I used to not do it as much.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why now? Is it that all the savings went away to the house?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I guess I used to always do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Yeah. Idon\u2019t believe you changed. Oh, I spent all my money on a house, and suddenly, I changed. I don\u2019t believe that. Okay. At least you\u2019re honest.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So let me get this straight. Both of you have ignored money for a long time, and now you\u2019re surprised that you\u2019re in this situation.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know if I\u2019m surprised.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Not really surprised.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m not really surprised, but I think it\u2019s now compounding where it\u2019s like, okay, this is an issue now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, it was always an issue. You just didn\u2019t know it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was always an issue. We knew it. We just pretended it wasn\u2019t, and that it would hopefully get better without consciously making it better.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Can I tell you, though? I think you\u2019re both still doing that.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. So you\u2019re both still ignoring the problems here. All right. Kate, you pull that number up.?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. So net, we would have to both jointly pull i, $12,000 a month.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019re pulling in 7,000 gross. So you need a lot more money is basically\u2013\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">A lot more money. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. So let me see if I can state this in a different way. You both calculated your numbers. You realized you need a lot more money in order to effectively what? Cover your expenses. What else?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Cover our expenses, save money, both in long-term investments and short-term investments, as well as have our own spending money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What about the debt?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, the debt. Yeah, sorry. Yeah. Fixed costs, which include debt.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And so since you realistically didn\u2019t see any path to that, you basically just got discouraged and nothing has changed.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Because neither one of us have ever made that much money or come close to it. So it feels like a completely unreachable goal.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I could see that. Can\u2019t feel good to see the number you would need comfortably is higher than anything you two have ever made jointly. Then you got the house, you got the baby, etc.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So your conclusion is what?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We both shut down.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. What would be a different way? If you were confident and competent, what would you do?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Rise to the occasion.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I honestly don\u2019t know. Mike, do you have any ideas?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Stop doing what I\u2019m doing and do something different. Definitely not just keep doing the same thing. And that\u2019s why I\u2019ve cut back and looking at other avenues.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Um, I still think the other avenues are not super viable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, good. Let\u2019s crush each other\u2019s dreams while we\u2019re talking about what it would look like to be confident and competent. You guys love pattern, don\u2019t you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Clearly. Yeah, I think encouraging myself and encouraging him instead of tearing down would be a huge benefit and definitely a confidence booster than a confidence deflator, which is definitely what we both do to each other right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s not\u2013\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s not good.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. How can you do this with the two of you and you\u2019re about to incur more stress than you\u2019ve ever had in your life with a baby?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m terrified.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Are you terrified enough to make a change?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mike:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Kate? That pause tells me everything I need to know. People who are ready to make a change say, I will do anything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t think I will.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s honest. You won\u2019t because, why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, I was going to say because I am not willing to sacrifice being happy, and at the same time, I\u2019m not happy right now. If I were to break it down, my thought process doesn\u2019t actually make sense. But the way that I see being able to make up that difference is working 60 to 80 hours, and I\u2019m like, I\u2019m not going to do that. That sounds miserable to me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So there\u2019s some things I\u2019m willing to do and some things I\u2019m just not because we\u2019ve both worked 80-hour weeks before working in restaurants, and it sucked. It just didn\u2019t feel fulfilling. I wasn\u2019t doing anything else with my life except for working. I had savings. I had the money. We were able to go on a two-month road trip across the country and have plenty of money to spend. Sure. But my day-to-day sucked. So it\u2019s like, am I willing to sacrifice everything just to have more money? No, I\u2019m not.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You\u2019re being really honest with me. My job here is to help people as far as they want to be helped. Candidly, I don\u2019t get the sense that you\u2019re really willing to make a change right now. I mean, you just said it point blank. I think that you have some stories you tell yourself. One of the stories being that if you were to save money, you have to work 80 hours a week. I don\u2019t find that to be true, but you have convinced yourself that that is the only way as a mechanism against change.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And Kate, I can\u2019t help if you are not ready to change. Mike, I can\u2019t help if you are not ready to be direct in what you need with Kate. If you\u2019re checked out, there\u2019s nothing I can do to make you care. And so I really want for the two of you to be successful, especially with a baby on the way, but I don\u2019t think that I can do anything to help you at this point.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. Yeah, that makes sense.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I wish you both the best.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; This conversation with Mike and Kate brings a completely new, and shocking, outcome to the podcast. They\u2019re 29 and 32, with some massive life changes on the horizon. But they can\u2019t save any money and lack the financial discipline to make real change for the sake of their family.\u00a0 This episode is brought to [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119020","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119020","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119020"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119020\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119020"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119020"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}