{"id":119024,"date":"2023-06-20T13:14:19","date_gmt":"2023-06-20T17:14:19","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119024"},"modified":"2025-04-07T10:11:51","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:11:51","slug":"108-mindy-carl","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/108-mindy-carl\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 108. \u201cWe achieved FIRE with $4.3M. Why can\u2019t we enjoy it?\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe achieved FIRE with $4.3M. Why can\u2019t we enjoy it?\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/Fm3jlsW7W34\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/62J16TVrVCg5QgFH3rN9Ol\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy and Carl are in their early 50s with two teenage children and a successful track record flipping real estate that\u2019s helped them build a $4.3M fortune. But as devoted members of the Financial Independence community, they struggle to talk, think, and spend it in healthy ways.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">This episode is brought to you by:<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Trade | Right now, Trade is offering our audience a free bag of coffee with any subscription at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/drinktrade.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/drinktrade.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Facet | Get affordable, accessible financial planning with a flat fee membership. For a limited time, the $250 enrollment fee will be waived when you sign up at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/facet.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Fabric by Gerber Life | Protect your family today with Fabric by Gerber Life. Apply today in just 10 minutes at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/meetfabric.com\/ramit<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">LMNT | Right now, LMNT is offering 8 single serving packets FREE with any LMNT order. This is a great way to try all 8 flavors. Get yours at\u00a0<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">https:\/\/drinklmnt.com\/RAMIT<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:533}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Tools mentioned in this episode<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter-yt\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Get the Podcast Newsletter and exclusive Q&amp;A about the show<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Show Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1ZEks6TsJozByHv5IXXuJQ1WScpkwi8fg\/view?usp=sharing\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/span><\/a><span data-contrast=\"none\">.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0He never spends any money. What does Lisa call you, Carl? El Cheapo? Mr. Cheapo?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s a good thing, to be not wasteful with your money. And why spend actual dollars when you can spend on a hotel instead. I feel security in the investments, but I don\u2019t want to touch them. They\u2019re for the future.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Not to be too blunt, but when\u2019s the future? Wow. The silence of mortality. Maybe 10 more years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And the older you get, the more you think about that very thing. I\u2019ve heard you say prime spending years are 40 to 60. So yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Aren\u2019t you two in that range?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. We\u2019re dead center in the middle.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think it\u2019s really hard for us to look at ourselves and how we\u2019re spending money and acknowledge that\u2013 this isn\u2019t really what we want to be doing. We don\u2019t want to just keep throwing money on the pile and keep being cheap. I do look at everything based on how much it costs, and I don\u2019t need to. I shouldn\u2019t.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know how to change.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Today\u2019s conversation is absolutely fascinating. Meet Mindy and Carl. They\u2019re both right around 50 years old, and Mindy is well known in the FIRE community. That\u2019s financial independence, retire early. In fact, I\u2019ve spoken to her on her podcast before. What\u2019s fascinating is that they are worth over $4 million.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And when I say they struggle to spend that money, I mean it. You\u2019re going to hear some fascinating stories. If you\u2019re watching this on YouTube, you\u2019re going to actually see the facial expressions, and I want to tell you why I\u2019m bringing you this story of Mindy and Carl today. Because I\u2019ve gotten a few comments from people that we only feature multimillionaires who have trouble spending.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And I want to tell you, it\u2019s really important to me that we feature a very diverse set of guests on this show. Wealthy, not wealthy, US-based, international, different races, different sexualities. We spend a lot of time seeking out couples, and I want to give a special shout out to the IWT podcast team for making that happen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Now, I think millionaire couples are so unusual that when we hear one, they stand out in our head. Think about it. When was the last time besides this podcast that you actually heard a couple with millions of dollars talking about how they have trouble spending money? It never happens, except on this show. And I share these stories, not because I only want to feature multimillionaires.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">That\u2019s not true. We have a lot of different diverse guests. But because I want to emphasize to you, there is no magical amount of money where you will suddenly feel safe. There\u2019s no magical amount of money where you will suddenly flip a switch and become generous with money. Your feelings about money are highly uncorrelated with the amount in your bank account. So I\u2019m going to continue to keep an eye on our guest selection process, but for now, meet Mindy and Carl in this absolutely fascinating conversation.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Would you say we\u2019re cheap, Carl?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I\u2019m thinking about the restaurant in New York City with our friends a month ago.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So we had good friends who had agreed to come up to visit us when we were in New York City, and I wanted to pay for the meal. They were going to travel two hours. And the first thing I did after he suggested the restaurant is I pulled up their menu and looked at how much everything costs.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And, uh, the thought I had after I saw this is, holy crap, I have to tell Bob that we need to pick somewhere else. This is too expensive. And I thought better of it. I never did that, and I felt ashamed for doing this. This is a really good friend who was making a big journey to come see us.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And it turns out it was family style. So they were large portions. It wasn\u2019t like one entree was that expensive.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was still expensive though.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Take me back to that menu moment. So your friend suggested this restaurant, and you hang up the phone, and was that the first thing you did? You pulled up the menu?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was the very first thing I did. Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why did you do that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, I guess that\u2019s how I approach most things in life. I\u2019m always looking at the cost. Uh, but always been obsessed with money. I probably have money scarcity issues.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. I mean, probably? I\u2019ve been talking to you for 60 seconds. Uh, I think we can safely make a bet on that one. What if you had not looked at the menu? What would you have felt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I probably would\u2019ve looked at the price when I got to the restaurant. I would\u2019ve done the same thing, and then I would\u2019ve had some anxiety, maybe a little mini panic attack, and I would\u2019ve tried to hide it, and then moved on with dinner.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Would you feel that physically in your body?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, a little bit.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Where?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, I guess my head and my heart. I would\u2019ve just felt a little bit uncomfortable with it. I would\u2019ve looked at that number and be like, oh, wow, this is going to be one of the most expensive meals I\u2019ve ever had in my entire I would\u2019ve done some math in my head. I would\u2019ve added up how much I thought the meal would\u2019ve cost, and I would\u2019ve tried to hide my emotions because I don\u2019t want to look like an idiot or, uh, a cheap person in front of my friends.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">They\u2019re really good friends. We love them, and they made a big effort. And why was I thinking about money? Why did I even have this consideration? We should have been the moment that we got to spend with these people who don\u2019t live near us, who we get to see two or three times a year. Money should have an afterthought.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. It\u2019s a lot of thinking.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We went to a restaurant yesterday for breakfast, and that my daughter ordered item that I had noticed was the most expensive thing on the menu. It was a breakfast. I don\u2019t know if you knew about that, Carl. And it was like, is she going to\u2013\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What was it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was $20.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What was it? What was the dish?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was, uh, pancakes, and eggs, and sausage, and, I don\u2019t know, French toast or something. She got just\u2013 it was a mound of food that she need, which is wasteful. And then when the bill arrived, I put my credit card in the thing, and then I hit 25% tip, and I\u2019m like, $99 for breakfast? Oh my God. What did we order? It just seems like a lot of money for one meal.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Is it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It is to us. It is to us in the regard that we don\u2019t spend $99 on a breakfast all the time. Um, is it going to ding my net worth? No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0But letting go hard. I don\u2019t want to be wasteful.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because wasteful means?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What if we run out of money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mathematically, you know that\u2019s impossible.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So wasteful means what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t want to spend and not get any joy out of it. I don\u2019t want to do something stupid with my money. I don\u2019t want to spend it and have a bad experience, or spend it and have a bad time, or spend it and say, that wasn\u2019t worth it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0At the core, you\u2019ll find a pattern with cheap people and even ultra frugal people. They\u2019re often terrified of tripping and falling and then having to eat in a Michelin-starred restaurant every night for the rest of their lives. I\u2019m actually serious. This is how the thought process goes. If I go to that restaurant and I spend money on it, I might actually like it, and then I have to eat out at those kinds of places for the rest of my life. You\u2019ve heard this before. You\u2019ve heard people say, I\u2019m not the kind of person who needs to stay at a Four Seasons every time I travel.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Let me tell you how I think about it. I\u2019ve eaten at very nice restaurants, and I\u2019ve eaten at taco trucks and pizza places. I trust myself enough to know that I can eat at a nice place once in a while and not suddenly become addicted to seven-course meals. I have control over my spending. And just because I try something nice occasionally doesn\u2019t mean I\u2019ll lose all control.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">That\u2019s one of the things going on with cheap people. They are deeply afraid of losing control. Now, when it comes to Mindy and Carl, let\u2019s take a look at their numbers. I\u2019ll give you a quick rundown. They\u2019re assets, 925,000. Their investments, 4,275,000. Their savings, 10,000. Real estate debt, 910,000. And if you add it all up, they\u2019re total net worth at roughly the age of 50 is $4.3 million.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When do you think that it\u2019s ceased to serve you? Your obsession with money as you call it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Probably when we reached all our financial goals about six years ago. Yeah. Exactly six years ago today. April, 2017, was when we reached our financial goals, and I knew I didn\u2019t have to work anymore.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Did your feelings magically change the next morning when you woke up knowing that you had hit your goals?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. I felt exactly the same.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What? I\u2019m shocked. You\u2019re telling me that after a lifetime of saving, you didn\u2019t magically turn into a\u2013 what have I been doing my whole life? How\u2019s that possible? I thought once you have the money in the spreadsheet and you show the 4% withdrawal rate, then everything changes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, you\u2019re exactly right. And that\u2019s what I felt too. Why am I not happy? Why do I feel pretty much the exact same? I started doing some research and I learned that happiness is mostly something that comes from you. It comes from the inside, not an external factor. I don\u2019t want to downplay the money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I\u2019m still thankful for it, but it is an external circumstance, and it was at that point I learned, ah, I probably have to work on myself a little bit. That money isn\u2019t going to be this\u2013 it\u2019s not going to flip a switch. I\u2019m not going to be instantly happy. And I\u2019m foolish because I thought I would be.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. So six years later, after that very valuable realization, which is, I agree, insightful, what work have you done on yourself?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Not probably, uh, I\u2019ll start over. What work have I done on myself? I try to pay attention to my mood all the time, and when I\u2019m truly happy, make a note of it and figure out why I\u2019m truly happy at that particular point.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. What was your answer going to be? You said not probably. Can you finish that sentence for me?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I was going to say not enough. I\u2019ve cut myself so busy. Again, not a great life choice. Uh, I don\u2019t know if you can see behind me, but there are doors that I\u2019m going to install in my house.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I\u2019ve been just as busy I as I ever was at work in the past six years since I left, I haven\u2019t taken time for myself to do as much introspective work as I think I should have.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We conversations about this frequently, and we don\u2019t know how to proceed.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. Okay. How hard was it for you to reach out to me to have this conversation?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I heard you on the Mad Fientist podcast, and I was like, I need to talk to him about this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0But we\u2019ve talked before. You remember our conversation last time?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Years ago, I went on Mindy\u2019s podcast, BiggerPockets, and towards the end, I just asked her what her rich life was. She mentioned taking a trip with her family. Got me interested. I started asking her a couple of questions, and suddenly, she started crying. It was an amazing moment. Listen in.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0 What would you do if you had to quadruple or 10x you\u2019re spending on bikes? Tell me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ooh. I would go on long distance bicycle trips?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0 How would you plan this trip? Again, you get 10x spending on this. Look at this discomfort on your face, Mindy. Why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because first of all, I didn\u2019t have any time. It would have to be in the summer because the kids are in school.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Forget about that. Mindy, the vision. Stick with the vision. Stop thinking about the dollar amount. You have the dollars.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I do have the dollars.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How long would your rich life bike trip be?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, probably two months.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow. Love it. That\u2019s amazing.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do cross-country.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mindy, you could do a lot of things. I can visually see you shrinking outside of the camera range. Can you tell me what\u2019s going on with you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0This is uncomfortable because I don\u2019t think about things like this.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And what do you think about instead, Mindy?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Saving.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mindy, you save. You already won. You have enough.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s time to shift into learning how to spend it. Mindy, what would you do if you had to quadruple or 10x you\u2019re spending on bikes? Tell me.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ooh. I would go on long distance bicycle trips.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How would you plan this trip? Again, you get 10x spending on this. Look at this discomfort on your face, Mindy. Why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because first of all, I didn\u2019t have any time. It would have to be in the summer because the kids are in school.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Forget about that. Mindy, the vision. Stick with the vision. Stop thinking about the dollar amount. You have the dollars.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I do have the dollars.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How long would your rich life bike trip be?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, probably two months.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow. Okay. Love it. That\u2019s amazing.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do cross-country.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0 And do you want to have any photos of this, uh, trip?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wouldn\u2019t it be nice to have a beautiful professional photo of your family with the sunset behind you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. But we could just set up tripod too.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Probably in your family forever. What was that?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We could just set up a tripod too.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mindy, you could do a lot of things. I can visually see you shrinking outside of the camera range. Can you tell me what\u2019s going on with you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0This is uncomfortable.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because I don\u2019t think about things like this.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And what do you think about instead, Mindy?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Saving.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mindy, you save. You already won. You have enough.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s time to shift into learning how to spend it. And this skill, you can see it. By the way, I hope everybody can see this, because I think you have a lot of courage to do this with me. This is really hard stuff. So Mindy, thank you. You\u2019re being very courageous. You\u2019re changing not just your own way of thinking, but what was passed down to you from your parents and possibly their parents. And here we are. Look at this. We\u2019re talking about maybe hiring a photographer. It would cost $500. It would cost nothing. It would be a memory in your family for generations. Mindy, you\u2019re having the courage to discuss this. You think you\u2019d have the courage to do it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You wanted me to spend money on a bicycle trip.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh-huh. But it was quite a beautiful image that you painted for all of us, including yourself about taking a trip. I was with you. I don\u2019t bike, and I was like, that sounds amazing. At the end of that episode, how did you feel once you went off on your own?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I felt overwhelmed because I don\u2019t think I can do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. And you talk about money professionally.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All the time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You talk about safe withdrawal rates, 4%, trinity. You talk about rule of 72, compound interest, diversification, real estate, all of it. And so what happened when we started talking about you and spending your money on the people you love?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I felt panicky. I really felt in my chest. Not so much my head, in my chest, like I\u2019m having a hard time breathing. This is really difficult to talk about spending lot of money.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And so, um, did you ever take the bike trip?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We did a trip to Germany instead. Our daughter was going to Germany with her school, so we went to Germany instead of the bike trip.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Cool. How was it?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was good. Um, it was good.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What\u2019s that mean?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We had a great time, but we spent a lot of money on the airline tickets because we couldn\u2019t optimize for those. It ended up\u2013 I think it was $6,000 to fly to Germany and back from our home airport. Uh, that\u2019s probably the most we\u2019ve ever spent on airline tickets.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why are talking about money right now? I asked how the trip was.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because you\u2019re Ramit.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I want to know. How was the trip? Was it good?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The trip was lovely. We saw Berlin, and, uh, Munich, and we ate lots of German food, and drank lots of German beer, and relaxing time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. Now, when I asked you how the trip was, you said it was good, like that. I\u2019m trying to understand what\u2013 was that referring to the price of the airline tickets?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. I feel bad that we spent that much money on airline tickets. I\u2019d love to be able to drop $6,000 on airline tickets and not care. But sometimes feels wasteful.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When you took this trip and you came back, did friends ask you how the trip was?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Did you tell anyone about the price of the airline tickets?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I did.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. Who? What percentage of people who asked about Germany did you tell about the airline tickets?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It wasn\u2019t the first thing I talked about, but I probably told 75 or a 100% of people about the tickets because I\u2019m supposed to be the money expert and I didn\u2019t do any optimization on the price of the tickets.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And we had to pay last minute.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You just said that you are the money person, and you\u2019re supposed to be able to optimize, but you couldn\u2019t optimize, so you feel bad. You think those two are related?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How so?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m supposed to be good at this, and here was a time that I wasn\u2019t good at this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh. Okay. Can you clarify for me? Spending $6,000 for two, is that bad at money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I could have been better.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I see where you\u2019re going with that. And one question you asked to us, what were other people\u2019s reactions? And I was around Mindy when we were having these conversations, and one cared about the money.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Including me. In fact, I was confused why we weren\u2019t talking about time with your family, and food, and sites, and instead talking instantly about an airline ticket.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think that she thinks she gets credibility. She wants to show people that she optimized it as well as she could have, and she doesn\u2019t feel like it, so she has to make an excuse or give an apology ahead of time. A preemptive apology that no one really asks for perhaps.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And the biking trip, what happened with that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We just got really busy. Um, we are really busy, so we put things to the side.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When we talked, it really seemed to hit an emotional nerve for you to start spending money, and that was, I don\u2019t remember, a couple years ago, let\u2019s say. What has your journey been in terms of spending money since we last talked?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The same.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We haven\u2019t really spent lot. Um, we did another house to turn into a rental, so that\u2019s an investment. So is that spending money?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s not spending. What else? I\u2019m talking about stuff that you enjoy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t mind spending money when we have people over.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We have a backyard with, uh, this beautiful deck that we built, and, uh, we\u2019ve got a pool in the backyard, and we have a lot of parties over the summer. I don\u2019t bat an eye at that, but I feel weird spending on other things\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We did let go with our trip to New York City, and I think that\u2019s probably the first time we really let money not dictate what we do. We bought two shows. We stayed near Central Park. Um, we went out to that Italian restaurant I mentioned earlier.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What are you talking about you didn\u2019t let prices dictate? You told me the first thing you did was look at the menu. Carl, what are you talking about? Hold on. I got to just paint the full picture. Okay. You stayed in near Central Park. Which hotel did you stay at?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, it was\u2013 the funny thing was, I was just about to tell you that we got it on points, that it was free.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And just again, Carl, what would you have gotten out of telling me it\u2019s on points?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have no idea. Same thing why Mindy told you about the 6,000 airline tickets. Uh, yeah. I don\u2019t know why we always say that. I guess it\u2019s an issue with both of us.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0But I hear people do that my life all the time. Oh, that\u2019s a cute skirt. Oh, it was on sale.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow. That\u2019s so surprising that the people around you mirror the same values that you yourselves espouse, and that you are finding it increasingly hard to change your values while being surrounded by those very people.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I definitely lived in a buy bubble. That\u2019s a thing in the buy community, is to be optimizing your money so you can stretch it farther.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That alarmed look on your face, Mindy, the realization that maybe that is actually not the best goal to have.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think when you\u2019re in the accumulation phase, I mean, that\u2019s a good thing, to be not wasteful with your money. And why spend actual dollars when you can spend on a hotel instead?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And this is one of the biggest critiques I have of the financial independence movement. If your value is defined by what you don\u2019t want to do, which for many people in that community is spend money, then number one, that\u2019s not an effective, cohesive value system because values are about what you do want to do, not simply what you don\u2019t want to do.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And second, what if you actually achieve financial independence? Now, the only way that you can spend money is, what, Mindy, as it relates to the FI community that you are so deeply embedded in?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It has to be an intelligent way. It has to be frugally.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Keep going.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It can\u2019t be wasteful.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What if you decide that you and Carl just want to start spending wildly? What would that mean for your membership in the community that you are so deeply embedded in?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. That\u2019s an interesting question. I don\u2019t think we would get kicked out.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:37]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What would your neighbors say?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They would talk. We have some nosy neighbors.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And what would they say?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What kind of car is that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They think you\u2019re homeless, right? I heard this. They think that you\u2019re\u2013 we had a neighbor who thought we were destitute.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. They congratulated us.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You told me that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They congratulated us on buying this house that was, uh, a super dump.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow. Congratulations. You\u2019re so destitute you were able to scrape together a few nickels to get this fixer-upper meanwhile, they\u2019re sitting over here with millions of dollars.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0There are two big clues here. The first is that Mindy and Carl are embedded in a community that highly values frugality and stigmatizes spending. They\u2019ve been in that community and system for decades. That\u2019s why she immediately told 100% of the people she talked to about the price of their trip rather than the memories as so many of us would normally share. And if you consider that old Jim Rohn quote, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with, you start to realize how difficult it would be for Mindy and Carl to actually change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">The second clue is that their neighbors thought they were \u201cdestitute\u201d. Cheap people often ignore blatant clues, such as their friends calling them cheap or destitute. And they\u2019ll say things like, I\u2019m not sure we\u2019re cheap. We\u2019re selective. They reframe their cheapness to be a virtue. But just as a quick guideline from me to you, if you ever hear more than one person joking about you being cheap, you\u2019re cheap. And there are always many, many more clues as well.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The world gave you another clue when you took a trip, and I understand that you, Mindy, got to the airport with Carl and you discovered\u2013 how many layovers did this trip have?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Two.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:44]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. And did you care? I mean, two layovers, you\u2019re probably going what? To India? Where were you going? Morocco?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Denver to Florida.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. And, uh, how come so many layers? Was the weather bad? What was it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, we were saving money.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm. How much?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0$20.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think it was $20 each.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What does Lisa call you, Carl? El Cheapo? Mr. Cheapo?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. My sisters used to call me Mr. Cheapo when I was growing up. Um, yeah. Multiple neighbors thought we were destitute because I would change the oil, and mow my own lawn, and all that crap.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm, I don\u2019t think that\u2019s why they think you\u2019re cheap. So you decided to reach out to me, why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We have heard you talk, and you are very good at teaching people how to lead their rich life and changing their mindset. And you are a spender.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I am?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What does a spender mean?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You spend money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0But isn\u2019t that bad? You spent money on those Germany tickets, and that was bad, as you put it. So am I a bad person?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How can I be a spender and not be a bad person? Got very quiet in here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because you\u2019re spending on things that are important to you, and you can afford it. And I\u2019m well aware of what that sounds like as soon as I say it. Thank you very much.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Go ahead. What does it sound like? Finish it for us.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, it sounds like I could spend on things that are important to me because I can afford it, and I don\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I think we\u2019ve identified that we probably live sub optimally. If something truly makes you happy, you should spend money on it, and that\u2019s what you do. And there\u2019s stuff we\u2019ve postponed or we think about money too much, and at this point, we probably shouldn\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So what\u2019s the gap between us?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think it\u2019s how we view money. For me, money has always been my security blanket. Even though I don\u2019t relate to it well, I feel comfortable deep down inside knowing that there\u2019s a big pile of money in our investment accounts.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No problem with that. I like my investment account too. Feels great. Uh, what words would you use to describe the way that your investment account makes you feel, Carl?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Really good. Secure is probably number one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Secure. What else?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Happy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Liberated.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mindy, how do you feel about your investments?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel security in the investments, but I don\u2019t want to touch them.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. Because?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They\u2019re for the future.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. I mean, not to be too blunt, but when\u2019s the future? Wow. The silence of mortality. Maybe 10 more years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And the older you get, the more you think about that very thing. I\u2019ve heard you say prime spending years are 40 to 60. So yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:08]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Aren\u2019t you two in that range?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. We\u2019re dead center in the middle.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m not convinced that there\u2019s actually any reason for you two to change. I\u2019m trying to figure that out right now.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I think there is. I think you only have a certain amount of mental bandwidth. You can only do so much in the day, and when you spend precious minutes of your life, especially if you get older, when you\u2019re 50, you could be using that time to do other things. So maybe any purchase under a certain amount, you shouldn\u2019t even think about or consider. You shouldn\u2019t waste any mind space considering it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Carl, why are all your sentences in the second person? Why are you saying you? Why are you talking like you\u2019re telling someone else a lesson about money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Yeah, I\u2019ll switch to I. You\u2019re right. I don\u2019t know why I talk that way. But yeah, I think\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hold on. Think about it for a second. Why did you suddenly switch into this very academic language?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I don\u2019t know. Maybe I\u2019m trying to pin my issues on someone else and not be accountable for it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mindy, what do you think?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think it\u2019s really hard for us to look at ourselves and how we\u2019re spending money and acknowledge that\u2013 this isn\u2019t really what we want to be doing. We don\u2019t want to just keep throwing money on the pile and keep being cheap.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So far it sounds like a lot of shoulds. We should spend money. We\u2019re 50. You talk about 40 to 60. Shoulds are not very compelling.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think you\u2019re right. How do you go from should to do?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We grew up, uh, there was some money scarcity issues. My dad was often laid off from work. My mom did not work. So we\u2019d have sad conversations around the dinner table occasionally about how we\u2019d have to clamp down. Uh, it was rough. I think it scarred me and put these money scarcity issues. So whenever I got money, I would love to go to the bank, and I\u2019m going to date myself, Ramit, but bank would have these little books they would give you, and they would write down your deposit with this little machine. I used to love going there and depositing my money, and that was it. I didn\u2019t spend it on much.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0How old were you when you went to the bank and did this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:43]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh geez. And the funny thing is, I still have my\u2013 would give you this little toy car when you signed up for an account, and it\u2019s 50 feet away from me, right over there. Probably started seven or eight.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You mentioned that you used to have sad conversations about money around the dinner table. What does that mean?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. It would happen\u2013 my dad was an and he would get laid off when winter would come, the work would die out, and he would get laid off, and it happened multiple years in a row where we would just sit down, hey, we have to have a family meeting. Your father\u2019s been laid off again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">We\u2019re going to have to clamp down. Uh, not spend money. And, uh, it put fear in me like, holy crap, are we going to lose our house? Shit. This is bad. Not good. My grandmother would talk about it more than my parents. She was a child of the Depression, so she would sneer at me and say, save your money, every time I saw her.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And if I came over with a toy that she thought was a stupid purchase, she would not hold back to tell me that if it was a stupid purchase, that I should have put that money in the bank. My mom would even tell me not to show my grandmother. I remember one time I bought a yo-yo, and it was 10 bucks. And my mom\u2019s like, do not take that in her house because going to be angry with you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So she\u2019s, um, I don\u2019t know how old she would be, but let\u2019s just say pretty old. Her values are still present with you today.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Absolutely.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Have you passed those values down to your daughters?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We try to. They\u2019re both very different children. They both know about money. They both could come down here and tell you what an index fund is. One is more of a saver than the other one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Sorry. Just to clarify, the values that your grandmother passed down, which values do you think those are?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Don\u2019t be silly with money. I think it\u2019s a good value.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I\u2019m struck that when I said your grandmother passed her values to you, the values that I see are not constructive values. They\u2019re actually quite negative. And you took that instead to mean those are positive values, and you have passed those along to your daughter.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. I don\u2019t think we\u2019re as caustic as she was. We\u2019re not mean about it, but we want them to be financially literate at the core. We want them to know how to save. We want them to know how to invest. Uh, and part of it is we want to set them up. We\u2019ve talked about perhaps helping them out when they\u2019re young adults, maybe buying them even a house or that when they\u2019re young. And the money will do them a lot of good versus leaving them a big pile when we croak, when the money will be a diminishing return.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If your daughters are 50 years old and they have the same behavior and attitudes towards money as you two do, will you consider that a success or a failure?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s better to be conservative than to be struggling. I know plenty of folks who struggle, but I think they could be a little bit better adjusted than we are.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. So was that a success or a failure?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I would say it\u2019s a success, but maybe not a perfect success. Success with an asterisk.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Mindy, you had a peculiar look on your face when I asked that question. Can you tell me what was going through your head?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know a lot of people are paycheck to paycheck, struggling with money, can\u2019t buy anything because they don\u2019t have any money or they don\u2019t care, and they spend money that they don\u2019t have to buy stuff either that they need or they don\u2019t need, uh, just because of external factors. And I would consider it to be a success if they were like us and had the money to spend and weren\u2019t spending it as opposed to having the money to spend and spending it anyway. I would rather they be more conservative. So success with an asterisk. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s a failure to have a lot of money and be conservative with your spending,<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And when you talk to your daughters, you ever tell them what to do after they do all those smart saving and investing things?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We talk about having options so that they don\u2019t have to work their whole lives.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s different than telling them how to spend money meaningfully.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0This is where I took a huge left turn. Listening to Mindy and Carl, I don\u2019t really believe that they want to change. They are leaders in a community that stigmatizes spending. They have decades of this habit under their belt, and it\u2019s worked well for them. And even when I\u2019ve talked to Mindy years ago, and we got into great detail, remember, she was crying at her realization that she wanted to take this trip, she changed nothing.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Even when I ask, would you want your children to turn 50 and be like you, they both say, yes, that would be a success. They\u2019re on this podcast asking for help to change something deeply foundational to them and they don\u2019t actually believe it\u2019s a problem. So I just got really honest. If you watch their reactions, especially on video, you\u2019ll see that they were shocked.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have to tell you that I don\u2019t think the two of you actually want to change, and I\u2019ll tell you why. You occasionally acknowledge that what you\u2019re doing is not serving you, but you have redefined the way that you treat money to be a virtue. We are conservative with money. You\u2019re more than conservative. When I asked about the rare trip that you take with your family, which is a beautiful thing, you jumped right into the cost of the airline tickets. I don\u2019t think that you genuinely want to change. How does that strike you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I would disagree, and I think it\u2019s a factor of age, and, uh, I value my time more than anything right now for\u2013 Mindy will tell you another flight story. For the longest time, I wouldn\u2019t sign up for pre-check, and we just did. And it\u2019s glorious.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Pre-check costs $50.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know. I think it\u2019s 75, but, uh, yeah. But totally worth it because I get some of my life back. It\u2019s worth 10x when I paid for it because you saved so much time at the airport and frustration. I don\u2019t like waiting in lines.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:50]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Carl, if you really cared about the time that you could get back, then you would not be spending the next 4 to 12 weeks doing doors. Mindy, how does it strike you, what I said?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t agree, but I don\u2019t\u2013 I\u2019m going to prove it to you. I\u2019m going to go spend a lot of money. Uh, I don\u2019t know how to change. I mean, you just spend money. That\u2019s how you change. But that\u2019s not what I\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. It\u2019s not even about how, Mindy, because we talked about how last time, and you didn\u2019t do it. And again, I don\u2019t mind that you didn\u2019t take the bike trip. You took another trip. Great. But the how is\u2013 you\u2019re not even at the how yet. You don\u2019t even know why you would want to spend more money. In your minds and the dynamic you\u2019ve created between yourselves and with the relationships around you, spending less is a virtue, and spending more is wasteful. So we\u2019re not even at the how.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So we talked about the bike trip, and I\u2019m not fixating on the bike trip. If you go on the bike trip or not, that\u2019s not important. But there was something that we both felt in that moment, something very powerful. Here it is years later, and I\u2019m trying to get you to understand why you haven\u2019t followed through on that. And your answer to me was, we\u2019ve been busy. I don\u2019t believe that. Carl doesn\u2019t believe it. Look at his face. Carl, that\u2019s ridiculous, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0He believes that we are busy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I believe that we\u2019re busy. I think, um, Mindy perhaps has had a hard time of letting go of certain aspects of making money and working.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:07]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0But I have stepped down an enormous amount of hours. So I went from 32 hours to about six or eight hours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Cool. Okay. All right. So you actually\u2013 yeah. Sure, you\u2019re still working a few hours here and there, but you\u2019ve eliminated a considerable amount of time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. How do you feel about that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel good, but this was my first week, so that time suck is gone, but then there\u2019s still the house time suck. And as we are finishing the house up, then it\u2019ll feel great.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Do you mean the house, though? I thought houses are all passive. There\u2019s no work involved in making money from real estate. Everybody just says it\u2019s passive. That\u2019s true, right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. Those people are wrong.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. Okay. First of all, I\u2019m going to give you a round of applause. You took back some of your time. That\u2019s awesome. Fantastic. I wonder if you jumping from one busy thing to the next reminds you of anyone else we\u2019ve heard on this podcast who jumped from one busy thing and has remained just as busy. Reminds you of anybody?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, it\u2019s ringing a bell.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. Who would that be?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Carl.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, so what\u2019s up with this dynamic here? The two of you both acknowledge you\u2019re cheap. The two of you talk about money constantly focusing on cost. The two of you then tell each other, we should be better. We should spend something. But then you don\u2019t.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have to tell you, I did do something. I learned that this band that I really like, one of my top three bands had a Kickstarter where you could have a live performance. They would fly out to anywhere in the world and do a live performance for $10,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And at first, I thought this was completely ridiculous. Then I tweeted about it, and a bunch of friends said, no, I think you absolutely should do this. I did do it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You did that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It seems like Carl and Mindy are now trying to prove that they actually want to spend money. I\u2019m not really here for them to impress me. I actually really want to help them. I like them. They\u2019ve been highly disciplined about their savings and investments. They\u2019ve retired early. They set a huge ambitious goal, and they won. So I want them to enjoy the results. But to live a rich life, you\u2019ve got to be honest with yourselves and the people around you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, the show is going to happen in August. It has not happened yet, but I don\u2019t know, it\u2019s been a lot of fun so far planning this whole thing, and inviting friends.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It felt terror typing my credit card number, added my expiration date, the CVC, the little number. After I did it, it felt really good. It felt awesome.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Huh? Look at this smile on your face right now. Do you see that you are viewing that purchase through a completely different lens than anything else in your life? What\u2019s the difference? How come you were able to feel that amount of emotion and excitement around that but not so much around other things?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s a big hurdle for him. He\u2019s had a lot of fun planning this event. We had to find a location for it and talk to, uh, several different people about, alcohol, and food, and, are we having a party beforehand? There\u2019s a lot of things going on with this, and he\u2019s had a lot of fun.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:45:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. I hear that. What\u2019s interesting is it sounds like it took up a considerable amount of time, but I\u2019m going to go out on a limb and guess that you didn\u2019t consider that being really busy. Fair?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, not busy at all, because it\u2019s super fun.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh-huh. What if you could do more things like that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I super look forward to it as soon as I\u2019m done hanging those doors, which Mindy gets to help me with her newfound time.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Which is fine if you like the house. If that\u2019s what you love, if it is your business, or it provides you joy, great. Carl, does it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Not so much anymore.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:29]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, we used to, and this\u2019ll be our last remodel.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It was our path to wealth. We would fix and flip houses, the 2-out-of-5-year rule, not pay capital gains, reinvest the money in stocks or another house, but it\u2019s run its course at this time. We\u2019re going to finish it up, like Mindy said, and no more.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Once this house is finished, there are no more projects. And we\u2019ve said this to several friends, and they\u2019re like, yeah, right. You\u2019re going to find something else. No, this is it. This is the last one. We don\u2019t enjoy it anymore. I don\u2019t enjoy it anymore. He says he enjoys it, and he really does enjoy tile.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">He\u2019s very good at it. I think it\u2019s something that he really does enjoy doing. The solitude. And he\u2019s got headphones, and he is listening to a podcast, and having a great time, but I don\u2019t think that there\u2019s a lot of the other parts that he enjoys. Hanging drywall sucks. Installing doors sucks. Um, living in chaos sucks. And there\u2019s still five weeks left.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When was the last time that I hung a door? Any idea?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, probably never.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Correct. I mean, you have the skill to hang a door and undo whatever those packages are and stuff. Okay. You have skills. I agree. Is there a future where maybe you don\u2019t hang doors?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I hope that future starts in about four weeks from right now.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. So when the project completes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And then everything will magically change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t think it\u2019ll magically change, but\u2013\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Carl, you already did this. Do you see what I\u2019m trying to show you? You already did this. You hit your FI number and nothing changed the next day. You could be right. Maybe all this is going to be completely wrapped up in exactly four weeks, and everything will change magically after that. Another way to look at it is the way you live today is the way you are going to live for the rest of your lives.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:34]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, that\u2019s the first time I\u2019ve actually heard the two of you say something in a resolute way.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:38]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That is the way that we have lived for the last 15 or 20 years. And it is not\u2013 we used to like it, and we don\u2019t like it anymore.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:51]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I have a question. If this were all going to be resolved in two or three weeks, why didn\u2019t we just talk in two or three weeks? What I suspect is that things are actually not going to change that much in three weeks. It\u2019s really hard to change. You know that. I know that. It\u2019s really hard. So aren\u2019t you doing yourselves a bit of a disservice by just kicking everything off till this date, three weeks in the future, and not really looking inside?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:22]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I don\u2019t know. It feels weird because, uh, we took on these projects. Now we know we don\u2019t want to do them anymore, but we have to bring them to resolution. We have to finish them up, and I think we really\u2013 Ramit, I\u2019ve got to tell you. We\u2019ve been doing this our whole entire lives. We\u2019ve lived in a house that\u2019s not a construction zone.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I\u2019m holding up my\u2013 I\u2019m in my dining room, and my nail gun is right next to me, which is, uh, but I don\u2019t think we want to do this anymore. And like you said, change is hard, but I think we\u2019ll actually have the time and mental bandwidth and hopefully be able to, uh, we just haven\u2019t ever slowed down in the past. As long as we\u2019ve been married, we\u2019ve never slowed down. And this\u2019ll be it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I once saw a video clip that I\u2019ll never forget. It was a self-development seminar, and a woman stood up and asked a question with way too many details. And the person on stage, she responded by saying this. She said, \u201cI think you talk a lot so you can escape yourself.\u201d I still remember the deafening silence in the room, and I remember my own heart speeding up as I wondered. Do I do that too?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">This is what Mindy and Carl are doing, and what so many of us do. We frantically respond to emails. We make the kids lunches. We schedule weekend activities, and optimize our savings, and we read fire blogs. Also, we can escape the deeper meanings of a rich life. Am I spending my time and money on the things that matter? Do I have strong relationships? How would I know if those things are true?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Let\u2019s look. If you claim you have strong relationships, look at your phone. Look at your text messages and calendar from the last week. Show me proof that you have strong relationships. Do I work on my health? Where does that show up in your calendar and your spending? Am I generous? Where does that show up in your conscious spending plan? Do I even know what my rich life is?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">In America, we are experts at doing more work, more work, chasing a goal that we tell ourselves our boss created, or our partner, or even society. But when you meet a couple like Mindy and Carl, who were independently wealthy as a result of their discipline, they even retired early, and even they can\u2019t stop doing things they dislike, you start to realize this may be a crystal ball into your future, unless you make a change.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What are you going to do with all the time?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Learn Spanish, play the piano, play the guitar, work on another website I\u2019ve been thinking about for the past five years, um, exercise.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Exercise. Go long bike rides.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:20]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow. That actually sounds really good. Are you guys kidding, or is this for real?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No, this is for real. We\u2019ve got a big list of things that we want to do. Uh, we have two kids. They\u2019re 13 and 16, and so we\u2019re a little location dependent right now, um, while they\u2019re in school. But they\u2019re in school from 8:00 to 4:00, or 8:00 to 3:00. So we can spend that time doing other things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Got it. Okay. Cool. You have a list. That\u2019s cool. What else is on that list?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:46]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0One thing I\u2019ll say is it was difficult to do the trip to Germany just because it was expensive. And our younger daughter is a homebody. She did not want to go. She\u2019s like, I just want to stay here. Can you leave me with a relative or our friends?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0She\u2019s 13, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:00]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, she\u2019s 13.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a013-year olds, they don\u2019t want to do anything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. But the amazing thing was she got back and the first thing she said was, dad, can\u2019t wait to go back there, and I\u2019m going to start doing German on Duolingo.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wow.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I know, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Wait, that\u2019s amazing. Okay. Amazing. What\u2019s your takeaway from that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0My takeaway was, holy shit, how can we give you more of these experiences that you really enjoyed? The memory dividend, she\u2019s going to take that with her forever, and it might change her life. Maybe she\u2019ll take up German in university, or maybe she\u2019ll go to Germany to study. Who knows? And it was something she was resistant against doing, and now she\u2019s in love with the place.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So you may have changed the trajectory of your daughter\u2019s life with this one trip. What are the implications of that as it relates to money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:53:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, my implications are, what else can we spend money on? What else can we show her that\u2019s going to change her world, maybe make her come out of her shell, make her more enthusiastic for these experiences, which might seem a little bit scary, in the end, she loves?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. When was this trip to Germany? How many months ago?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ten.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ten months ago, almost a year ago. What money have you spent on for that daughter to create experiences for her?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Uh, we have Hawaii planned. She was last in Hawaii when she was two or three, so she doesn\u2019t remember. She\u2019s really excited about that. We\u2019re staying at very nice resorts. We are planning a helicopter trip. We are snorkeling. What are we\u2013 snorkeling with manta rays. Um, things that we would not have done the past because they would be too expensive. And I don\u2019t even know how much the helicopter trip costs.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We haven\u2019t discussed how much it costs. We just asked the girls if that was something that they would be interested in doing because the little one may have some issues with getting into a helicopter, and they were both very excited about it. The same with the manta rays. Um, and they were so excited, we just booked the trip. We look at the cost.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I heard you on Chris Hutchins\u2019s show talking about you went to Japan, and you got a photographer while you were there, and they took pictures, and I said, oh, we should do that while we\u2019re in Hawaii. So we\u2019re going to find a photographer to take some family photos on the beach, and it\u2019s going to be a cost because it\u2019s somebody\u2019s time, but I\u2019m not concerned about that cost.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Can we try to reframe that? I loved everything you just told me. Everything. It sounds beautiful. It sounds like a memory of a lifetime. Take me to the end of that sentence where you said, we\u2019re going to get a photographer. And then you lapsed into cost.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:59]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I don\u2019t know what it\u2019s going to cost. I haven\u2019t looked into it at all.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hey, Mindy. I don\u2019t care what it costs.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And I don\u2019t either. I mean, I don\u2019t want to spend $10,000 on it, but I want to find somebody to nice pictures. I don\u2019t know how much it costs.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:17]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When I talked about it on a Chris\u2019s podcast, did you hear me talk about the cost of it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:23]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. What did I talk about?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:26]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You talked about how you would have these memories for the rest of your life because you had somebody else take these pictures.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0In fact, the more money I accumulate, the more meaning I get to create in more adventurous ways, in bigger results ways, in more convenient and safe ways than to have to only look at the world through cost. So when you tell me that I took a trip to Germany, I\u2019m more interested in how your daughters thought the food was and what you saw there in terms of history. That gets me pumped. That is creating memories. And your youngest wants to learn German. Oh my God, I love that. The price of an airline ticket for the two of you, couldn\u2019t care less. Mindy, you look startled. Carl is smiling too. Mindy, what\u2019s going through your head?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I am thinking of new ways to look at things. I do look at everything based on how much it costs, and I don\u2019t need to. I shouldn\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Now this is good. No matter how much someone struggles to change their money, attitudes, and behaviors, there is always a glimmer of hope, and I see that glimmer shining brightly when they talk about their daughter\u2019s reaction to visiting Germany. I saw it with their upcoming trip to Hawaii. I even saw it with Carl\u2019s birthday party concert. To me, these are really promising clues. And they tell me that there\u2019s a yearning here to change, and even some proven behaviors that they\u2019ve done, but it\u2019s going to take a lot of work.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:25]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0When I was young, as you know, I grew up, frugal family, dad worked, mom was home with the kids. We had a pretty big family. Not a lot of money. Middle class, hardly ever ate out, hardly ever took vacations. We did not waste money. Sometimes you have to do that. There\u2019s just no extra money to\u2013 you can\u2019t actually afford to waste money.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Now, I\u2019m CEO. I\u2019ve run my business. I have all these people around me. Sometimes money gets wasted. Now, I\u2019m not saying I love it, but maybe I order something and it doesn\u2019t get returned in time. The more money you have, the more money you will naturally waste, and that is okay because any system of any complexity has waste in it. Carl, you\u2019re building this house along with Mindy. Have you wasted any of your supplies?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:27]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Of course. That\u2019s waste. That\u2019s normal. Any system has waste. If it has no waste, it\u2019s probably not doing anything productive. But with money, Mindy, you have this view about waste as if it\u2019s the worst thing in the world. Why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I am a grandchild of the Depression, and you did not waste anything back then because you didn\u2019t have anything. So anything that you had, you had to keep. You had to save.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:04]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0But Mindy, yet you still live and breathe that same value today.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:12]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So I grew up the same way. Not, uh, descendant of grandparents or others who were in the Great Depression, but I grew up with a frugal family by nature and partially by culture. And we found lots of inexpensive ways to have fun, and we had a great time. But what do you think changed for me to be able to spend extravagantly on the things I love? What changed? It wasn\u2019t just making more money because you\u2019ve made more money, and you haven\u2019t changed.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know what changed for you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:42]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. Do you want to ask some questions? Let\u2019s flip this podcast. This is your podcast now. Go ahead.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ramit, when did you first find yourself starting to spend more money and being okay with spending that money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Right after I graduated from college. I remember asking a friend to help me dress better, and she took me to the Palo Alto Mall, and we went into the store, I think it was a Macy\u2019s or something, and the way I had always shopped was, if you see something you like, you look at the price tag, and then if it\u2019s reasonable, you take it in the dressing room. So I started doing that and she stopped me. She goes, \u201cDon\u2019t do that.\u201d I said, \u201cWhat?\u201d She said, \u201cFirst, see if you love it, then we can talk about the price.\u201d That blew my mind. That was the first thing I remember.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:39]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What did it feel like for you when your friend told you not to look at the price tag and then you go into the dressing room? Did you look at it then?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0No. I trusted her. I had asked her because she had really good style. I had asked her to come help me. I wanted to learn how to dress better, and I trusted her. So I walked out, and she had these extremely memorable reactions. When I would wear something, she would get excited. She was like, this looks amazing.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:10]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So when it came time to pay, they told you that the total, you bring your pile of clothes to register. How did that feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I had the money. So the first thing is I was not worried about the money. I had the money. I knew my numbers. Um, but the way that I felt was focused on how I was going to look, and the numbers were a mere triviality. Yeah, they were more than I would\u2019ve ever paid before, but I was more focused on my friend getting me excited about how I was going to look and how to style these new clothes.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:49]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0All right. What are you taking away from this, Mindy?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:55]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t know how you go from a frugal family to not looking at price tags at clothes. I mean, Macy\u2019s can have some sweaters, or they could have some $5,000 sweaters.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0They don\u2019t have $5,000 sweaters at Macy\u2019s. I know that. Mindy, if you\u2019re going to try to throw around prices of stuff, the one thing you do not want to throw around with this guy is the price of sweaters. Your point is, Macy\u2019s can have expensive sweaters. Yes. But the principle is still the same. What was the principle you heard me say?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0You trusted your friend and you focused on the result, not the cost.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:36]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I focused on a bigger picture than cost. What would be the equivalent for your Hawaii trip?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I think we\u2019re doing most of it.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:47]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, I do too. What is the big picture, the thing that you\u2019re actually getting excited about?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Spending time with the girls and having a great trip, doing things that they want to do.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. How come you\u2019re not agonizing over the price of everything?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because we\u2019re trying something new.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:05]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes. Do you see the direct analogy?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Why is it uncomfortable for you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Because this is new.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:21]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0The difference is, I had a reason, a very compelling reason when I was in my early 20s. A young 20 something guy wants to look good. I was single. I have asked many times, and I\u2019m still looking for a compelling reason from the two of you to change. I\u2019m still looking. I will ask again and again, why now? And the answers are, we should spend more. We have enough in the bank. Not compelling. Not enough of a reason to actually change. You have both embedded yourself in systems and structures that makes it extremely difficult for you to actually build the skill of spending money.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hmm. Well, I\u2019ll ask Mindy. I think our lives will change very shortly when all this stuff is done. Uh, but it\u2019s probably a recent realization, I think, the New York trip where we did allow ourselves to spend money on two shows and nice experiences there. I think that was an eye opener. I don\u2019t regret a thing about spending that money, and now more than anything in life, just want my time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:05:40]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That seems strange though, if they have that kind of money. I mean, I\u2019ve only seen the cartoon rich people who are like, I got to do all this stuff so fast, and I\u2019ve got\u2013 time is money, and let\u2019s get going. We\u2019re always so busy we don\u2019t have time to do anything and people who have that kind of money aren\u2019t rushed. That seems\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:02]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Never rush.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:03]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0We are at a point where the older one is going to be going off to college soon. I want to make a lot of with the four of us while there\u2019s still the four of us.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:15]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Ramit, we committed to these projects years ago, where my mindset was a little bit different and, I think, was shitier, but now I just want to get past them and move on.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Well, I had some notes up here, and my top thing was I don\u2019t want to be wasteful, so I\u2019m crossing that off.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:35]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I like it. Can I make a suggestion? Maybe going forward, you don\u2019t use the word optimize anymore. At all. How do you feel about that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:45]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I feel good. I\u2019ll have to get the word optimized, the tattoo removed from my ass. But I like the reframing of it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:06:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Cool. Use that between the two of you. So you both have a lot of fun with each other. I can tell. Just the way you talk. If that optimize comes up, you can, ah, what\u2019d you say? You can have fun with it, but it\u2019s also a half joke because you actually don\u2019t have to live a life of optimization for everything. People who have the wealth you do, it\u2019s a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to. You can live a life of comfort, safety, or pure delight. Carl\u2019s writing something down. Carl, what are you writing down?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:07:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0It\u2019s a tragedy to live a smaller life than you have to.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:07:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. I appreciate that. It\u2019s the first thing you wrote down today. What struck you about that phrase?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:07:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Geez. I don\u2019t want to be 80 and regret not buying the photographer or doing other shit that we could have done, uh, on the vacation that we been doing. I mean, the thing that\u2013 one of the things that really stuck out to me was our younger daughter telling us how much she liked the trip and the experience, and I want to give her more experiences like that. I want to come back from Hawaii and for her to tell us that was the best weeks of her life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Now, that is a powerful vision. Mindy, how much did you say you\u2019re going to have by the time you\u2019re 70 or 80 or something? That big number that you said in your pre-interview.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:16]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Oh, it\u2019s going to be\u2013 well, if we\u2013 God, I wrote those down, and then I don\u2019t have that off the top of my head, but the rule of 72 says that it\u2019s going to double every eight years. So I\u2019m 50 now at 4.3 million. At age 58, I\u2019ll have 8.6. At age 58, 64, I will have 16 million.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm. Keep going.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:41]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And then at 74, 72, I\u2019ll have 32 million, something like that.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:48]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. Stop right there $32 million at age 74.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:52]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What does it mean to you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:54]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0That\u2019s unfathomable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:56]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Mm-hmm.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:08:58]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I don\u2019t really identify with that.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:01]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0So if you continue the way you are, what are you going to do with that much money by then?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:06]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Pay a lot in required minimum distributions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:11]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And then what are you going to do with that money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I want to buy my kids a house before I have to pay for all of that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:19]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Okay. A house costs a million bucks, maybe even two. Great. What else? That\u2019s your interest for about nine months.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah. I don\u2019t know how to handle that kind of money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:33]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0If you can\u2019t learn to spend a little bit of money right now, this is just income, by the way, then how can you learn to spend millions and millions and millions of dollars? Mindy\u2019s taking deep breaths right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:53]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, because I don\u2019t know how I would ever spend $16 million.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:09:57]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah, I think it would be a failure if we ever got to that. I think that would be an indication that we didn\u2019t spend enough when we were younger, because who knows what shape we\u2019ll be in when we\u2019re that old as well. So I don\u2019t want to get to a point where we have that much. And even if that means giving it away\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:10:13]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:10:14]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And seeing our money doing good. I don\u2019t want to leave a bunch of money when I die. I want to blow it all before I croak, and hopefully, here\u2019s the o word again, optimally blow it. Uh, so either give it away or spend it on stuff. I don\u2019t want to have that wealth where I don\u2019t\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:10:30]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0I still want to go on that bike ride.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:10:31]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Narration:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0[Narration]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:10:32]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And now for their follow-ups, which I asked them to record on video. So make sure you come to YouTube and subscribe so you can see their reactions. It\u2019s actually quite telling, and you\u2019ll be able to see future video follow-ups from our guests. Don\u2019t forget, you can sign up to get my podcast newsletter every single week where I share material you will never see publicly. It\u2019s at iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter. This week, I\u2019m talking about the dynamics of cheap people. First up, Mindy\u2019s video update.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:11:09]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mindy:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0What really surprised me is that you didn\u2019t think that we really want to change. Um, I do want to change, but the change is hard. I\u2019m old. I\u2019m set in my ways, and this is a big part of my whole life. And it is tough to change, and I really thought that you were just going to wave some magical wand and everything was going to be easy. And apparently, I have to do the work. Um, so I\u2019m thankful for the conversation. You really made me think. I did not sleep well the last night or two nights ago, so thanks for that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Uh, but I have a lot to think about. And why would I sit through this if I didn\u2019t want to change Ramit? Um, what did I take away from this conversation? I don\u2019t think Carl and I are really on the same page about money sometimes. And I really thought we were. I thought we were both on the same page all the time. And I want to pay somebody to come in and finish this stupid house so we can be done, and he wants to DIY everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Um, and I get both sides of it. I get his point because finding good help is really, really hard. Um, but we are both frustrated with the house and the way it\u2019s going. So we did end up hiring our friend Eric, and, um, he came in and hung all the doors today, and they look great. And that\u2019s a huge weight off of our shoulders. And the amount of mental bandwidth that that freed up is, uh, you can\u2019t put a price on that, even though it only costs\u2013 well, I\u2019m not even going to tell you how much it cost because I don\u2019t do that anymore.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Um, I do have a comment from my daughter. She said, uh, I said how we were talking to this guy last night, and we\u2019re always concerned about the cost of things. She said, \u201cSince when are you concerned about the cost? You\u2019re rich.\u201d And I asked her if she thought we weren\u2019t concerned about the cost of things, and she replied, \u201cI think you obsessed about the price of everything, and it\u2019s annoying.\u201d Anyway, um, the idea that all this could all be done soon is delightful. Thank you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:13:24]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0And now Carl\u2019s video update.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:13:28]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Carl:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0Hi, Ramit. So this is my friend Eric. One of the suggestions you had was to hire some of our stuff out so we get through this and move on to our next life. And when we were on the call the other night, I texted Eric, and he had actually responded a couple minutes later saying he could help out today. So that\u2019s Wednesday, and we are installing doors now. We\u2019re not only influenced and reinforced by our community, but we\u2019re reinforced by each other.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I think Mindy and I are on the same page, and I think it\u2019s great to be on the same page with your partner, but maybe we\u2019re not exactly on the right page. So that\u2019s what surprised me. I think Mindy and I have lived in maybe a tunnel vision situation for a long time, where we\u2019re pretty much exactly on the same page and haven\u2019t considered other views or what else we could be doing with our money to live a better life.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Uh, one of the big takeaways was I was thinking about our recent trips to New York and Germany with our daughters, and what a great time they had. I think that\u2019s probably some of the best times we\u2019ve had as a family. And after we got off our call with you, I thought, why aren\u2019t we doing more of this? So I\u2019ve done a couple things. I\u2019ve taken three different actions since we talked. This one was inspired by you and the photographer story. We have a good friend who lives on Maui, and we offered to fly him and his partner over to Kauai for a day to hang out with us and to also take pictures of ourselves and our family.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Number two, yesterday, Mindy and I asked each girl, each of our daughters, to make a list of the top 10 places they would like to see in the world. We are going to see what they come up with and see what overlap there is on their list, and then pick a place and go there for at least a week on December break.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And here\u2019s a really big one. I think you\u2019re going to like this one a lot. Uh, my mom is still around. I also have two sisters who both have partners, and all of them are doing all right, but not nearly as well off as Mindy and I. So yesterday, I sent everyone a text offering to take the entire family on a cruise to Alaska. So this is my mom, my sisters, and their partners. I would pay for a cruise to go to Alaska in 2024. My mom has always dreamt to this, but has never been able to pull the trigger on it for herself. So I look forward to being able to take all nine of us on this pretty cool trip. So thank you for the inspiration.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:16:18]\u00a0<\/span><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit:<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0 Well, I want to thank Mindy and Carl for coming on this show. It took a lot of courage, particularly because of their place in the FIRE community to come here publicly and ask for help. So Mindy and Carl, thank you very much. I\u2019d love for you to keep updating me with how you are developing your rich life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">If you enjoyed this, let\u2019s do a couple of things. Number one, please leave a written review on Apple Podcast. It helps a lot. Number two, please subscribe to my YouTube channel. And number three, go to iwt.com\/podcastnewsletter. This week, I\u2019m sending something you\u2019ve never seen, my seven-part scorecard on how to tell if you are cheap. Thanks for watching. Thanks for listening. I\u2019ll see you next time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-ccp-props=\"{}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Mindy and Carl are in their early 50s with two teenage children and a successful track record flipping real estate that\u2019s helped them build a $4.3M fortune. But as devoted members of the Financial Independence community, they struggle to talk, think, and spend it in healthy ways.\u00a0 This episode is brought to you by:\u00a0 [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119024","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119024","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119024"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119024\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119024"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119024"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}