{"id":119147,"date":"2023-01-24T15:53:55","date_gmt":"2023-01-24T19:53:55","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119147"},"modified":"2025-04-07T10:42:15","modified_gmt":"2025-04-07T14:42:15","slug":"79-kirsten-jon","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/79-kirsten-jon\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 79. \u201cWe\u2019re worth $700,000+ but my wife took away my credit card\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe title=\"\u201cWe\u2019re worth $700,000+ but my wife took away my credit card\u201d\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/mtgquMUfxfU\" width=\"100%\" height=\"400\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/3lhfK3626S02JUIRITl5xX?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Kirsten and Jon are both 34, raising two young boys in Canada. Kirsten, an engineer, is all about problems and solutions, going as far as \u201cparenting\u201d Jon when he overspends. Jon avoids money talk like the plague, even giving up his use of the joint credit card to avoid further static at home.<\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Tools mentioned in this episode<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:375,&quot;335559739&quot;:375,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/drive.google.com\/file\/d\/1Ggh8xR4vPFbaeNdlEqtc7c0pXEs7f4Wu\/view?usp=sharing\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download the full transcript PDF<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:03] I hate talking about money. I fucking hate it. I can\u2019t stand talking about money because all it brings up for me is I\u2019m going to be by myself. I\u2019m going to be gone. I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m at the point that I can control what\u2019s going on with the spend, so I know it\u2019s such a hot-button issue. So for me, it\u2019s easier to, here\u2019s the card. It\u2019s no longer an issue. Done.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:35] I feel like a parent when taking away a kid\u2019s iPad or something and locking it up. I would much prefer to just have open communication and be able to each have our own cards than monitor it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:51] Kirsten, when are you going to stop worrying about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:53] Never.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:54] Meet Kirsten and Jon. They\u2019re both 34. They have two young children. I think you\u2019re going to find their story interesting. Kirsten is an engineer. And as you will hear, she is very analytical with numbers. Jon, on the other hand, admits that he has bad habits with money. He overspends. He avoids talking about money. He even gives up his credit card occasionally because he admits he cannot control himself.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Now, some really interesting things happen in today\u2019s conversation. I want you to keep listening for the children\u2019s role in this conversation. And of course, you can actually watch this couple and see these fascinating quirks of body language by finding this episode on YouTube. Just search for Ramit Sethi and subscribe to my feed. Let\u2019s get started. I am Ramit Sethi and this is the I Will Teach You to Be Rich Podcast.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Okay. Let\u2019s rewind to three months ago. Tell me exactly what happened.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:00] Although Jon was there, I can\u2019t remember how I found out that you had a balance on your credit card.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:00] Ask him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:05] How did I find out, Jon, that you still had an outstanding balance on your credit card and you were making minimum payments?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:12] I had gone in and I had paid our joint credit card completely off. And the comment came out from yourself that I wasn\u2019t supposed to pay the complete credit card off, and instead I was only supposed to pay the\u2013 I think they call it a statement balance for whatever was spent on that credit card for that past month.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And then from there, it went into you wondering what I had left on my credit card. And it turns out I had not paid the entire credit card completely off because of an error on my part, being out of town for eight weeks in a row.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:55] How much was on your credit card, Jon?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:58] Like $2,100 and change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:01] Okay. Is that a lot? Is that a little? How does that stack up to your normal spending?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:06] That\u2019s on the high-end average, I would say.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:09] It freaked me out because I have never not paid a credit card off in full. And so knowing how expensive the interest is, I was just freaking out.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:19] Freak out means what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:21] Getting angry and being like, \u201cWhat are we doing? We shouldn\u2019t be paying the bank\u2013 well, I guess the bank. We shouldn\u2019t be paying these credit card fees. If you couldn\u2019t have paid it off, you should have told me. You can use a line of credit. There\u2019s interest rates.\u201d And I just go into a whole spiel like that about what\u2019s going on.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:40] And does that work?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:43] No, because this is probably the third or fourth time that has happened.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:47] Really?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:47] Well, actually, no. I think we\u2019ve only taken the card away twice, but\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:52] Hold on. What\u2019s the take the card away?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:56] I\u2019ve voluntarily rescinded my access to my card.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:03] Is that like when police voluntarily puts me behind bars? Is that like that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:09] No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:10] Okay. So who offered?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:13] I did.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:14] You said you could have my card.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:17] I put it in our safe here. I don\u2019t feel like I\u2019m at the point that I can control what\u2019s going on with the spend. I know it\u2019s such a hot-button issue. So for me, it\u2019s easier to, \u201cHere\u2019s the card. It\u2019s no longer an issue.\u201d Done.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:36] And how does that strike you, Kirsten?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:38] For me, the primary problem is just the spending in general, whether it\u2019s on the card or not.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:44] Who\u2019s spending?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:46] I don\u2019t feel aligned on our spending. So whether it\u2019s the timing of the spending, I guess it\u2019s mostly Jon\u2019s because I can control myself and I know where our finances are all the time because I do them. So for me, the hardest thing is figuring out what Jon is spending on when he\u2019s spending it, and how our finances can actually support that.\u00a0<\/span><br \/>\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">I feel like a parent when taking away a kid\u2019s iPad or something and locking it up. I would much prefer to just have open communication and be able to each have our own card than monitor it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:22] All right. So, Kirsten, your problem is Jon\u2019s spending. Is that accurate?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:29] I would say yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:30] Let\u2019s just call it out. All right, if that\u2019s what you think the problem is, great. Jon, do you agree that your spending is the primary problem?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:39] I would agree that my spending is a large proportion of the primary problem. I believe there\u2019s another factor to it as well, where the response to attempting to right or wrong or to figure out what\u2019s going on, the response to that is like yelling, screaming, taking the card away type of effect.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So it\u2019s twofold of all, spend something, and all of a sudden I find out there\u2019s 100 other things that are going on that weren\u2019t communicated. And I am now the one at fault for spending the money. And then I\u2019m getting in trouble for spending the money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:32] The taking away of the credit card strikes me as a little weird. I also find it interesting when someone openly admits they have a problem, but they haven\u2019t really been able to make the step to find a solution.<\/span><br \/>\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">So far, it\u2019s a little too early to say what\u2019s going on here, but these are the things that I\u2019m paying attention to right now.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Okay. What changed four years ago when you started having financial disagreements?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:01] For me, it was that I couldn\u2019t pay the bills. I saw that Jon\u2019s spending was going over our bills and then we had to start having more serious discussions about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:14] Okay. And the first time that it happened, do you remember that moment?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:18] I do. I actually wrote about it in my journal. That\u2019s how I know it was four years ago. I think Jon had probably paid his credit card bill because that\u2019s usually how I would find out because Jon would pay his credit card bills from our joint account.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And what I did in that point was I said, \u201cWhat is on your credit card? Show me your statement.\u201d Because then I start to think like, where can you be spending? Again, it was a similar balance of around $2,000 is what I wrote in my journal.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So what can you be spending $2,000 on your personal credit card because that\u2019s not groceries, that\u2019s not any joint? So then I did a deep dive and found all of what he was spending on, and most of it was predictable. But there were a few things that surprised me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:00] Like?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:02] At that time it was foam games, like when you pay $20 for credits or $30. So how much you were spending in a month on foam games was very surprising to me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:13] Jon, which game was it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:14] There\u2019s a bunch of different games that I\u2019ll find to kill time. I used to work on the road 90% of my time, 95% of the time. So you sit in your hotel room for 12, 16 hours a day or you\u2019re working. And you\u2019ve got to kill the time somehow. So I don\u2019t do drugs. I don\u2019t go out. I don\u2019t drink really that much. I play games on my cell phone.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:40] Usually what I do is dip into the credit line, put something on to our credit line, and then pay the bill. And then by the time our next paychecks come, I can pay the credit line off and then keep going on from there. And by that time, the card has been confiscated and the spending gets back under control that I don\u2019t have to dip into the credit line again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:00] Okay. It must be pretty stressful to put money on a line of credit and then hope that everything works out the next month. How do you feel when that happens, Kirsten?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:17] Thankfully, I haven\u2019t had to worry that we\u2019re never going to recover again. But it definitely is stressful to me thinking that it could get worse. Like, okay, this is recoverable, but what about the next time? What if it\u2019s $4,000 next time or $6,000 and suddenly we\u2019re going to go more and more into debt?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So I think I start to get into that worst-case scenario. Then what if we can\u2019t buy food, especially now that we have kids, it makes me even more stressed thinking about not being able to pay our bills with our regular salaries.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:53] Spin a little bit, like if this happens and then that, and that, that. Then we\u2019re homeless by the river.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:00] Yes. Yeah. Actually, I was just talking to a money coach about that and saying that that\u2019s actually my biggest fear is that I will eventually be homeless, someday I will lose everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:11] Let me see if I can paint a picture. Tell me if this sounds familiar. You\u2019ll be homeless, out in the rain with just a bag and your kids and you won\u2019t know what to do. Any of that sound familiar?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:24] Yeah. Except in Canada, it would be snow.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:29] Okay, it\u2019s not funny, but okay, that is a little funny. In America, it\u2019s rain. In Canada, it\u2019s snow. Okay. All right, fine. Worst case is a little different, geographically constrained. All right. So this happens, it sounds like multiple times over the course of years. Now, it\u2019s no surprise that Jon just goes, \u201cAll right, take the credit card. Here you go.\u201d Because it seems like this has happened before.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:54] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:55] All right. So is that card currently in purgatory right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:00] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:00] All right. And how long is that going to go on for?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:06] I currently have no repatriation date.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:12] So it\u2019s just like, here you go, there\u2019s no discussion about when. Who decides when it comes out of the safe? That silence tells me it\u2019s Kirsten. Kirsten is that you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:25] I guess so. I think maybe when I feel like we have enough savings again, that I can afford to have surprise expenses, then I probably am like, okay, you can have it back again. Because I can\u2019t remember exactly how he got it back the last time. But I imagine it\u2019s once I start feeling comfortable because I hide money in my personal savings accounts so that he doesn\u2019t know it\u2019s there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:46] What a surprise. Where\u2019d you learn that from?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:50] For risk tolerance. My personal risk tolerance as he was surprising me with these expenses, I started to think that I needed to hide my savings.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:01] You ever hear any phrases growing up about keeping a little bit of money aside?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:06] Actually, no. And I think my parents might have most of their accounts separate, so I don\u2019t recall them ever talking about that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:15] Why do your parents have their money separate?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:18] Good question. I guess I\u2019m not really sure. I haven\u2019t asked them before.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:25] That\u2019s interesting. What else do they do with money? What do you remember about growing up with money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:31] I know they separated things like my dad paid the mortgage and my mom would pay the food and the utilities. My mom was a real estate agent when we were young, so we would often withhold spending until she sold a house. And then once she sold the house, we could spend because we had money, so we could buy things that we had been waiting on, like the new movie we wanted to buy or go somewhere special.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I would say overall, they sounded fairly positive. I don\u2019t recall a lot of times where we felt like there was a lack or scarcity or a big worry other than like I said, there were times where she would say, \u201cYou can\u2019t buy this until I sell the house.\u201d But there was I recall being pretty good.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And then as I got older, we did learn more, my mom worked for a bank for a while, so she taught us about money. She brought home computer games for us to play putting stuff in an ATM and saving up.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And then my dad, as I got even older, started talking about to him, his $100 is like $10 to me, talking about the flow of money, the energy of money coming in and out and it wants to be spent and brought in. So we\u2019ve progressed from the basic, here\u2019s how you count coins and save to now money to flow in. This is how it looks different.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:59] Wow. It sounds like they were pretty adept at teaching you about money in different age-appropriate ways.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:06] I think they did a really good job. I think there were obviously things that they could have maybe taught us a little bit more about that they would have been more interested in. But overall\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:15] Like what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:15] Like investing. I didn\u2019t learn a lot about investing from them. My dad\u2019s more of a do-it-yourself investor. My mom, I think, maybe went more with a financial planner or advisor way, but I would have liked to learn a little bit more about it. But from the basics of finance, I think they did a really great job teaching me about the ins and outs and the different RRSPs and TFSAs.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">They did amazing job too, I should not neglect to mention that they did things for me like filing me tax returns from when I was really young to give me a lot of space in my RRSP. As soon as they started making any money, they filed a tax return for me. So they did a lot of stuff to set me up for success.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:56] You have to notice how different people on this podcast have different relationships with money, but very often, regardless of what their relationship is, it traces back to their parents.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">In almost every case of someone who comes on here and is highly sophisticated with money. Their parents taught them about saving and investing and credit from a very young age. If you have children, this is a huge clue. It also means that you need to understand money first before you go and teach your kids. In many cases where someone on this podcast is totally lost with money, their parents almost always did not talk to them about money.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So what are the key takeaways for you? As I said, if you\u2019re thinking about how to raise kids, you\u2019ve got to master the basics of money for yourself first, and only then can you teach your kids about money. If you don\u2019t know how, join my Money coaching program. The link is in the show notes.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Second, we have to account for where you started and where you are now. Like if you were taught about compound interest from the age of five, that\u2019s fantastic. You had a huge leg up. Some people never learned anything about money except bad habits from watching their parents. The fact is we all start from a different place.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I think what matters is that by listening to these conversations, you realize no matter where you started, you can radically change your financial life by taking control of your money. And I don\u2019t mean 10 years from now. I mean in six months. Now, of course, it can be difficult if one partner was exposed to money from a young age and the other was not. And that is exactly what\u2019s happening here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:39] First time I really recall anything about money with my parents is, we have the Royal Bank of Canada being in Canada it\u2019s one of our major five banks or whatever. I\u2019ve been with them for my entire life. I got myself a LEO account with just their super young kid savings account, and then that\u2019s pretty much the extent of how much money stuff I\u2019ve got. My dad in the last year or two talked a little bit about investing with me because he\u2019s just retired and he\u2019s looking into doing more personal, direct investing type of stuff just because he\u2019s got time on his hands now.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">But other than that, my mom did accounting in the books and whatnot for various youth organizations that we were part of and she\u2019s worked at various different medical clinics and stuff where she\u2019s run the books and stuff like that. But none of that was passed to me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:46] Got it. Got it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:47] Nothing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:48] Okay. And in your parent\u2019s household, who managed the money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:56] Speaking for certain, I have no idea. I don\u2019t actually know. I have a hunch that it was my mom.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:04] I know your parents may not have formally taught you certain lessons about money. Can you think of any lessons that you may have picked up informally from watching them or hearing them?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:16] Oh. It\u2019s going to be funny that I say this, considering why we\u2019re talking to you. Or at least I think it\u2019s funny because I\u2019ve got a weird sense of humor that way. But talking about big purchases that they make, I remember they\u2019ve done that quite a bit. And especially recently, like my mom retired a couple of years ago. My dad just retired this past summer.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So they talked about retirement and the money outlook after retirement and like, hey, can we afford to get an RV or can we go to Nevada? There\u2019s Snowbirds, too. So we come south, it\u2019s warmer. That\u2019s about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:05] So you find that that\u2019s funny because they talk about it, but you don\u2019t. Is that what you mean?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:12] Yeah. And the funny part is that my biggest takeaway from them is the fact that they talk about money and I don\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:21] Any of you have any surprises hearing this from your partner?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:25] Oh, no.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:25] Kirsten. Oh, no surprises?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:27] No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:28] You both knew this, everything\u2019s been out on the table about this before you both know how you\u2019re both raised with money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:34] Yeah, we have talked about it. And I\u2019ve even said to Kirsten before, as you asked her, having grown up the way she did, do you feel confident being able to teach our boys about money? And my answer is yes, I think Kirsten can teach them. Yes, I think Kirsten can teach me. And yes, I want to teach the boys the way that Kirsten learned as opposed to the way I learned.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:59] Okay, so you had this heated conversation. The credit card went away for a while. How long was the credit card gone for?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:10] Well, I think it\u2019s been increasing over time that it\u2019s been gone for. But at the beginning it was probably only a week or a shift of time when I was at home. So I was on the road for eight days and home for six. And most transition days are transition days, but\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:27] So, Jon, you\u2019re not on the road anymore but the spending issue seems to still be happening. Is that fair to say?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:36] Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:38] Okay. Why is it still happening?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:41] Best guess I\u2019ve got a slightly addicting personality.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:52] All right. So the addictive personality thing is interesting. Jon, have you talked to a therapist about that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:58] Several times.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:59] Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:00] Still ongoing?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:02] Oh, yeah. I\u2019ve been in therapy for like seven years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:04] Great. Great. Okay. Good. I\u2019m glad to hear that. Do you talk about money when you discuss the other issues?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:17] We broach it, but it\u2019s not the key focus of the discussions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:21] That\u2019s what today is about for you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:22] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:23] Okay, cool.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:25] Can I interject a bit?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:26] Of course.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:27] We also attend couples counseling or couples therapy, and we have talked about money there because it being a pain point for me in the relationship and so that was one of the reasons we created a budget, was that was homework that our therapist gave us.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And actually in the end, although we didn\u2019t really finalize it and decide on it, what she wanted us to come back with as our homework was what should each of us have as a free-spending money that we don\u2019t have to talk to each other about every month? And our numbers were within $50 of what we decided.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:00] Wow. First of all, if that therapist is listening, great exercise. Very good. And second, that\u2019s really cool that the two of you were pretty aligned. Did it feel good to discover that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:11] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:12] That\u2019s cool. Sometimes when you have this big cloud hanging over you like money, it just feels so foreboding and so heavy that even if you can find a little sliver of light, I take the win, I go, okay, at least we can hold on to that and we\u2019ll work our way out of the rest of it over time. It sounds like you found that little sliver of light. Great.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So I\u2019m curious, what happens if nothing changes? You\u2019ve got little kids. You\u2019ve been married 10 years. Took this great trip. There\u2019s a little overspending. But it\u2019s not just once. It\u2019s several times over the course of several years. What happens if nothing changes? Let\u2019s start with Jon.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:06] Pretty much essentially Kirsten\u2019s worst-case scenario, but reversed. Effectively it\u2019ll be I\u2019m kicked out, I\u2019m on the street down by the river or whatever it was in the snow with a light jacket on because that\u2019s all I had the money left for. And my boys don\u2019t want to see me, at that point in time, my ex-wife, Kirsten, wouldn\u2019t want her to see me, and I\u2019d literally have nothing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:01] Do you ever think about that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:03] Practically, every day. That\u2019s why I\u2019ve been in therapy for seven years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:06] Really? Kirsten, did you know that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:12] I do know that one of his biggest fears is that I will leave. Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:18] Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:20] And that somehow I will come up with a way to take away the boys. I do know that that\u2019s his biggest fear.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:27] And would you say on a scale of 1 to 10, how big is money as an issue between the two of you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:40] For me, I think maybe it\u2019s about a six right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:44] Jon.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:46] Based on the reactions that are given by Kirsten, I\u2019d say it\u2019s probably like an eight or nine.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:56] What\u2019s up with the misalignment? Six versus nine is a pretty big difference.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:04] To me anyways, the response garnered from it is very strong. That\u2019s not true. As you say, it\u2019s an entire cloud. I hate talking about money. I fucking hate it. Sorry, you saw it earlier, so I assumed I could ask.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:28] You\u2019re welcome to.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:31] Honestly, I can\u2019t stand talking about money because all it brings up for me is I\u2019m going to be by myself. I\u2019m going to be gone. And the way the response is that in my mind, using a line of credit for 10 days, who the fuck cares? That\u2019s what it\u2019s there for.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:59] Have you ever said that to Kirsten?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:02] I just did.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:06] And we\u2019re misaligned on that. In my opinion, the line of credit is not to make up for issues with overspending when we don\u2019t have the money in our accounts. For me, a line of credit is when you need to borrow because something really bad happened. For me, we spend what we make. So we have a misalignment there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:24] I misalign with both of you, because why are you even talking about a line of credit? That\u2019s my question. Line of credits are not used for $2,000. It doesn\u2019t make any sense. It shouldn\u2019t even be in the conversation. That\u2019s like me saying, I have a cockroach on my wall. Hold on. Let me call the Pentagon and get a nuclear weapon ready to go. It makes no sense.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So we\u2019ll get to all of our misalignments. Trust me, we got to. But, Jon, back to you for a second. You hate talking about money. Do you ever bring up money on your own?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:03] I think I have once or twice. And it comes back to the I\u2019m coming in thinking I\u2019m doing the right thing, talking about money, and then it just blowing up in my face. She talks about money almost constantly with her parents.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:20] When she talks about it, what do you feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:23] I leave.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:26] Like physically?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:27] Yeah, I physically leave. I don\u2019t understand it for the most part. So because they\u2019re talking concepts, the investing side of things, and whatnot and I\u2019m like I know fairly little about that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:45] And so your answer is, leave?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:49] Yep.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:51] Well, do you like coming on this conversation? Actually, do you like this conversation right now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:58] It\u2019s going a lot better than I thought it would.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:03] What did you think would happen?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:08] Before, so Kirsten said, \u201cHey, I signed up for the chance to get to talk with you. And my first thought is, okay, well, I\u2019m going to get shit on because I don\u2019t know anything about money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:23] That\u2019s interesting, though, considering you actually did know about cash flow and lines of credit. So that\u2019s interesting that you don\u2019t think you know anything about money. Do you believe that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:37] I do. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:39] Do you want to learn more about it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:41] I do, but I also don\u2019t want to get yelled at about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:44] Tell me about that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:48] It\u2019s one of the reasons why I\u2019ve been in therapy for seven years. So I have a big problem with trying stuff, trying anything without being an expert.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:04] And is the belief that you want to jump from zero to being an expert and you hate that introductory phase where you don\u2019t know a lot?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:15] That\u2019s the problem for me, is I can\u2019t get through that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:20] Jon mentions that he thinks about money all the time, that he worries about being alone by a river with his kids taken away from him. That goes pretty deep. And I have to say, I\u2019m glad that Jon has been seeing a therapist. You can tell that this is not just about money, even though that\u2019s our focus today. It goes much deeper. For anyone listening, I\u2019m always supportive of seeing a therapist for deeper issues like this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><br \/>\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">\u00a0<\/span><br \/>\n<span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten, what do you think is the real issue here?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:52] I think the real issue is that we don\u2019t do this together. So it\u2019s just me trying to figure it all out and I don\u2019t feel like we\u2019re approaching it as a team.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:06] Yeah, that\u2019s interesting. And you mentioned earlier that you feel like what to Jon when it comes to money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:14] A parent.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:15] Yeah. A parent who takes away the credit card, who says, why did you do this? That kind of thing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:21] Yeah, exactly.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:23] There\u2019s so many other things that are going on, especially now for the past almost three years, there\u2019s at least been one fairly active, now toddler running around. Now there\u2019s two. So that takes up an exceptional amount of time. Like we get five minutes a day if that. And most of the time what we do is we pass each other running from room to room or whatever. So there\u2019s so much going on that I haven\u2019t put the priority on money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:04] And what\u2019s the cost of that? Because candidly, it seems like you could honestly get by for a long time without really focusing on money. Like, take me an outside observer. You don\u2019t talk about money. Okay, once in a while, you overspend. Once in a while from that, it turns into an issue.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">You fight a little bit. The credit card gets taken away now voluntarily given away, and a week or a month later, it\u2019s smoothed over and you go back to the way it was. You have kids, you have food, you have a roof. Isn\u2019t it possible you could basically go the rest of your life and just keep this up?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:46] I\u2019m okay with making the decision but now, with so much going on in the household and raising children and stuff, I don\u2019t feel comfortable being the only one making all these financial decisions, including, like Jon said, now we\u2019re talking about what do we want to do to prepare ourselves for retirement.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">How much do we want to put away for the kids for school? How much do we want to be able to have for their extracurriculars? So there\u2019s a lot of questions that need to be answered that I could do on my own, but I don\u2019t feel comfortable doing that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:15] Do you want his help?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:20] Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:20] How do you think he takes it when you say that you want his help with money? What do you think is going through his head?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:29] I think he probably is thinking that I just want to do 90% of it and get his 10% input.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:39] I\u2019m not so sure about that. Try it again. Try really putting yourself inside his head. All those things he just told us about how he feels about money. And now he\u2019s hearing, just close your eyes. And I\u2019ll share it with you. He told you that he doesn\u2019t like talking about money. He told you that he doesn\u2019t understand a lot of the concepts about money. He voluntarily handed over his credit card after he admittedly overspent.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And now he hears his wife, who\u2019s much more experienced with money, who\u2019s pointed out, oh, look at this number and that number. And his wife says to him, I need your help. What\u2019s going through his head?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:31] I\u2019m not able to help you or I\u2019m not capable of helping you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:34] Yeah. Yeah. Jon, is that accurate?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:39] Mm-hmm. Very much so. I don\u2019t even know where to start.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:45] So when she says, I want your help, what is your reaction to that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:52] What do I have to offer? I literally have nothing that can help you other than I can throw random numbers at you. It can be a random number generator for you. But that\u2019s about it. And you\u2019re an engineer, you know how to find those online. So?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:14] Kirsten, are you hearing Jon\u2019s reaction? Does it connect with you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:20] Yes, it does. Yeah. And I can understand where he\u2019s coming from for sure. That it would be very challenging. I can imagine someone who I view as an expert on the topic, asking me for my help and thinking, what do I have to offer you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:36] Kirsten, when was the last time you told Jon, I don\u2019t know the answer to that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:47] I don\u2019t think I ever have.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:50] Jon, why are you laughing? Why have you got that big smile on your face?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:52] He\u2019s an engineer, man. They never don\u2019t know the answer.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:59] Any engineering jokes on this podcast always get aired. Always.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:04] Perfect.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:04] That will never get cut. I can guarantee that. Anyone want to come on the show and make jokes about engineers, you come on. You can sail right past the line. All right. Okay, listen, Kirsten, I know it\u2019s a bit of a joke, because if he\u2019s not asking you questions, how are you going to say, I don\u2019t know, I get that.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">But sometimes it\u2019s actually really empowering to say, You know what? I\u2019m actually not sure. Jon, can we look into that together, I actually don\u2019t know the answer to that, and I\u2019d really love for us to figure it out together. Jon, how would that strike you if you heard that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:37] It sounds corny, but I would definitely fall deeper in love just based on the fact that I literally do this every fucking day at work. My job is to not know the answer and figure it out. That\u2019s what my job is.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:57] So you\u2019re saying that if Kirsten were to say that, that she doesn\u2019t know something, which, of course, nobody can know everything. If she were to admit that there\u2019s some part of finance she doesn\u2019t understand, that would bond you two closer together, connect you two more.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:13] Because then we can do something together and look it up and figure it out together.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:19] Okay. Kirsten, are you hearing that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:21] Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:22] Okay, good. That\u2019s a big clue. That\u2019s good. That\u2019s great. I love that. I love the honesty. Thank you, Jon. Kirsten, I know she\u2019s filing that away. That\u2019s fantastic.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Now, at the same time, Jon, I would like to ask you to close your eyes and put yourself in Kirsten\u2019s shoes because she has some really valid points to make. Kirsten is saying, \u201cWe\u2019ve been mostly aligned for years. But in the last four years, there have been problems with money. My husband has overspent. Not once, not twice. Multiple times, and it only comes up when I bring it up and there\u2019s a fight.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And now I feel like I\u2019m the parent. I have to take away his credit card. It\u2019s not the partnership I want. I need help. I need a partner in making some of these financial decisions.\u201d Jon, what do you think she\u2019s saying there? And how does it strike you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:28] I think all those points are 100% valid, like how can she go through and run an entire household financially by herself? She\u2019s attempting to wade through waist-deep snow uphill by herself. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:01] Does it reach you? Does it connect with you when you hear her say something like that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:05] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:07] In what way?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:09] It tells me I need to step in more to with what she needs help with. I need to take it upon myself and whatever she\u2019s asking for, try and help as opposed to running away from it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:34] Kirsten, was that accurate the way I articulated what you\u2019ve been feeling recently?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:40] Yes, definitely.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:41] I have to say that hearing both of you really be able to step into each other\u2019s shoes, that\u2019s a really hard skill. But you both did it. I could also hear the kids running around. Let\u2019s call that out, too. It\u2019s real. How old are the kids?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:00] One\u2019s almost three at the end of the month here, and the other one\u2019s going on 11 months.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:05] Okay, so one in three years old. That\u2019s a handful. A lot of people have this idea that money should be this absolutely dialed-in perfect system. In fact, a lot of parents, I tell look, yes, have your savings goal. Have your conscious spending plan. But if you have to ease off the gas for a couple of years while the kids are young, it\u2019s okay.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">You\u2019ve got these young kids. They\u2019re proving our point right now for us by running around and making a bunch of noise. That\u2019s what young kids do. So my proposal is that we find a way for the two of you to connect on money, but also make it so that it doesn\u2019t feel so tense, especially in these early years where the kids are going to take way more of your time than they may take later on. How would that sound to everybody?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:52] That would be phenomenal.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:53] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:55] All right. All right. Do these kids know how long their parents waited to be on this podcast? Couldn\u2019t they stay quiet for two or three hours? Do they not understand logistics? I\u2019m just kidding. Kids don\u2019t know anything. And I actually loved that they were running around making noise while we recorded this.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">You see, our lives are not lived in perfectly manicured offices with perfect lighting and this single solitary cup of jasmine tea steaming on the desk. Real life is messy. This couple has kids running around. That\u2019s life.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Our finances have to take place embedded in our messy lives. The truth is, there\u2019s never going to be a day when we have nothing to do and a perfectly clean house and peace and quiet. My takeaway is we might as well start making our money work for us today. Mess and all.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Was the budget fun to make?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:52] For me, no.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:53] Kirsten. Kirsten is like loved it. I fucking loved every category in there. I\u2019m just kidding. Was it fun, Kirsten?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:59] To be fair, I am an engineer, so I like looking at numbers as much as I can.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:03] Okay. Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:04] I actually\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:05] You found some joy in it. Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:07] I didn\u2019t mind it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:08] You didn\u2019t mind it. Okay. That\u2019s good, actually. Like, if one person enjoys the mechanics of it, oftentimes one person is a little bit more aligned with that. Kirsten, you said something earlier about, I give the credit card back when I feel that we have enough saved up. What amount do you need to have saved up in order to feel safer?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:38] I like to have about $10,000 in what I call my spending savings, so my E-savings account online.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:47] What\u2019s the spending savings account? What is that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:52] That\u2019s just our regular bank savings account, but it has a higher interest rate in that one, and I don\u2019t mind spending out of that account. It doesn\u2019t involve any selling of investments or anything like that. It\u2019s just a little cash account that we have.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:07] Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:08] I may not mind savings.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:09] Hold on a second. You may not mind spending out of that savings account, but I mind you spending out of that savings account. A savings account is not meant to be spent out of. It\u2019s literally called a savings account. Let me ask you this. How often does money flow from that savings account into your checking account?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:31] Monthly for the bills.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:34] No, we\u2019ve got to change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:35] I\u2019d argue it\u2019s on the side of weekly, if not even more frequently than that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:41] All right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:42] Okay, to be fair, though, I\u2019m using it like a checking account.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:46] Why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:46] Because it earns more interest. It\u2019s a high-interest savings account. So I like the extra dollar of interest that I get by putting it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:42:53] Oh, you love that? Really? Surprised that $1 of interest. Okay. And is that serving you at the macro level to be transferring money back and forth to not have a savings account that\u2019s consistently growing because you\u2019re constantly drawing from it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:10] Well, it used to be consistently growing, but not anymore. Yeah, and then also, I guess it\u2019s not really that big of a difference, but I do like having a little bit of interest. Banks take so much from us.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:25] Yes, they do. They take our souls, don\u2019t they?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:28] And to be fair, you can pay bills out of that account. So I do directly pay credit card bills right out of that savings account.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:36] I have a question for you, Kirsten. You have an interesting approach to your accounts. I\u2019ll tell you my approach. Well, I also wrote a book on it. Have you read that book?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:49] I knew you were going to ask me because I watched your Instagram story about how people you interview haven\u2019t read it. I have not read it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:43:56] What a surprise. And Jon, I\u2019m not even going to bother asking you because I know you didn\u2019t read that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:00] Why not? Why not?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:00] Did you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:02] No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:02] All right. Kirsten, I assume you created the conscious spending plan? Jon, did you have any part of this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:13] I think I looked at it for a couple of minutes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:16] Kirsten, how many episodes of this podcast have you listened to? All of them?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:21] Well, I was doing better before the baby was born, but I think I probably listened to at least a dozen, maybe two dozen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:30] And do you notice any patterns about\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:33] Oh, yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:34] The CSP and which partner creates it? What\u2019s that pattern you noticed?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:37] The money person in the relationship does the work.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:42] Yes. Even though I know my colleague said both of you should create this conscious spending plan together. You got that message, didn\u2019t you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:52] Yes, we did. And I even knew you were going to call us out on this but I wanted it done, so I did it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:44:57] Let me see if I have this right. Basically, nobody who comes on this show reads my book. Why would they? It\u2019s only that they have an existential crisis that warns them applying to an international podcast, being screened, and sharing every single financial number in their lives in front of millions of people. To read a book on this stuff? No, thanks.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Then we send specific instructions to do the CSP together. I think maybe 60% of people follow this advice. It\u2019s become a running joke on this podcast. Now, even more importantly than this running joke, I want you to notice the convoluted system that Kirsten came up with to maximize interest for what? An extra $5 a month? Do you know how many questions I get about this every single week? Ramit, should I switch savings accounts? That other bank is paying 2.25% more?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">When they actually stop spinning and stop trying to optimize everything in their life and they run the numbers, they discover we\u2019re talking about like a $2 per month difference. Don\u2019t ever write me an email like this. And more importantly, stop focusing on $3 questions, and start focusing on $30,000 ones.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Can I just say this is one of the weirdest conscious spending plans I\u2019ve ever seen? Why did you edit my template? Kirsten, why are you messing with my template?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:16] Because it didn\u2019t fit our life. So I made it fit my life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:46:21] Sometimes I just want to tell people, if your financial situation doesn\u2019t fit my template, then you need to change your situation to fit my system. I know that\u2019s wrong. Don\u2019t say it Ramit. You shouldn\u2019t say that.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">But sometimes it\u2019s also right because sometimes people overcomplicate shit way too much. As has happened in this conscious spending plan where I\u2019m sitting here looking at it, and I\u2019m like, I invented this shit and I can\u2019t even figure out what\u2019s going on in this document.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So I\u2019m sitting here calculating stuff on my own. I\u2019m like, \u201cDid the money flow? What happened?\u201d So I\u2019m glad to be able to talk to the co-inventor of this adapted CSP, Kirsten. Jon, tell me when you get that document open.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:05] It\u2019s open. It also doesn\u2019t surprise me that she edited it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:09] I purposely put formulas in all of these cells so I could see what I was doing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:14] God damn, these formulas. Listen, I hate formulas. Jon, when is the last time you analyzed an Excel formula?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:23] Financially, never.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:25] Exactly. Thank you. All right, Kirsten, the point of this is not to overengineered the template. What\u2019s the point of this conscious spending plan, which you both got an F on it because you didn\u2019t even do it, but what is the point of this fucking thing?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:40] To make your finances simple and together.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:42] Yes. Together. See my hands, together.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:47] Okay. But I knew you might ask more detailed questions, which is why I put formulas in because now if Jon clicks on the gross monthly income, he will see that we can actually see our salaries and everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:47:58] Cool. That\u2019s amazing. And when do you think he\u2019s going to click that cell? He\u2019s not clicking any cell in this stupid spreadsheet. I don\u2019t even want to click a cell.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:09] I know, and I\u2019ve heard in your podcast before that there\u2019s the spreadsheet lover and the non-spreadsheet lover. And I know I fell into the trap.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:17] It\u2019s not even a trap. I tell people openly, just fill out the template. Literally, I made it for you. All right.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So, Jon, I would like for you to walk us through the conscious spending plan. Let\u2019s start on that current money tab, and just read me off what you see and take a second to let it register. I\u2019d like to get your reaction to each of these numbers. Let\u2019s start with that gross monthly income.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:46] $18,000, almost $18,300, roughly.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:52] Okay. Your reaction?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:55] Monthly income, to me, I think that\u2019s quite a bit of change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:48:59] Yeah, it\u2019s a lot. All right. Net is 11. Whatever. Let\u2019s go to net worth.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:05] Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:08] What do you see?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:09] So assets are $245,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:13] Great. Investments?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:19] Just shy of $450,000. I know I\u2019m making a big jump there, but\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:25] Your reaction?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:28] That\u2019s not quite as high as I thought it was, considering how much money I thought we were putting away. But also, a part of me has thought that it might have something to do with this market right now, which I don\u2019t know anything about other than people telling me it\u2019s going down.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:48] All right. All right, fine. Your savings.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:53] $10,000, which seems a ridiculously round number for savings.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:49:58] All right, your debt is zero. So what\u2019s your total net worth?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:03] Just over $700,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:05] All right. Nice work. So $700,000, you\u2019re in your 30s. Great. Kirsten, how do you feel about those numbers now? You put them in here. I want to take a second to check in with you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:18] I feel good that the investment line hurt me a little bit because, like Jon said, the markets are down right now. So that definitely was higher a year ago. But I think we\u2019re on a good track. I do have an idea of a future net worth goal that I would like to hit and I think we can hit it, hopefully.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:37] What is it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:39] Well, my original goal was three million but after talking to a financial planner, I think we might be able to hit five million by the time we retire.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:47] And what does that mean to you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:50:50] For me, it means that we can have a comfortable retirement, do some fun stuff while we\u2019re there, and pass on some generational wealth, which is important to me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:02] All right. Kirsten, when are you going to stop worrying about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:05] Never.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:07] That\u2019s her honest answer. All right. More of my podcast guest needs to listen to you. They go, \u201cWell, I think it\u2019s one I have 1.25 million plus this much in equity and this much in it. All jokes aside, do you want to stop worrying about money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:21] I would like to. I still think I will spiral into that fear of homelessness unless I really work on my mindset. But I always keep going into what if one of us loses our job? What if we become disabled? What if something bad happens? What if our house burns down? What if I just go down that road? But I would like to be able to.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:41] Do you like playing defense?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:46] I was stuck playing defense a lot when I played soccer.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:50] Do you like playing defense in your life?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:51:54] No. I don\u2019t. Maybe just feeling alive because I have all this stress and things to worry about. So I feel stuff is more exciting. Drama.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:10] It\u2019s true. Some people watch Netflix, some people worry about stuff. What other parts of life do you worry in?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:22] Most parts, I would say my relationships, my parenting, my personal development, everywhere.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:52:30] We become addicted to playing defense, to wondering what can go wrong. Now, you might see this in certain professions like lawyers. They are paid to worry about what can go wrong.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">But I think we also see it in our personal lives as well. Take a lot of parents. A lot of them are always worrying, worrying what can go wrong. If you ask them for just one day, you\u2019re not allowed to mention a single thing that you are worried about when it comes to your kids, would they know what to say?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Think about other parts of your life where you may have become addicted to playing defense, addicted to wondering what can go wrong. How powerful would it be for just one day to flip that and say, \u201cWhat if I only talk about all the things that could go right?\u201d How do you think that would change your life?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Can I just point something out? So I don\u2019t mind that you were busy. Everybody gets busy. I\u2019m not here to beat you up about it. All right. At least I got the numbers. Really I\u2019m here to help you. But I do want to potentially shine a light on something that the two of you have really internalized, this idea that we are so busy, we don\u2019t have time to manage our money.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">You are busy. You\u2019ve got two young kids. Nobody can tell you that you\u2019re not busy. I accept it. But I also want to say that by not prioritizing time for your money, you end up getting into a rhythm where one person in this case you, Kirsten, take over and Jon, you\u2019re spending without knowing how it\u2019s affecting your finances and then it turns into a blowup.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">And finally, I just want to point out that I see a lot of zeros in your conscious spending plan, a lot. Okay? Is it possible for you to buy some of your time back?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:30] I\u2019m sitting here listening to my boys running around upstairs with their babysitter thinking, why can\u2019t we buy some of our time back with a babysitter for an hour or two a month or every two weeks or whatever it comes down to? I don\u2019t see how 20 bucks or 30 bucks or I don\u2019t even know how much she gets paid. That\u2019s how our little two\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:54:59] Well, you\u2019re about to know in a second. Trust me. I see Kirsten\u2019s eyes. That gleam, that vindictive gleam. I know that look very well, Kirsten, because I have it deep in my eyes as well. You\u2019re about to know quickly. But, Kirsten, do you think that it\u2019d be possible for you to buy your time back? It sounds like Jon is on board.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:15] Yes, it is 100% possible. It\u2019s something I\u2019ve been working on for probably 1 to 2 years. My issue, I find\u2013<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:23] What the fuck? How could you be working on it for two years?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:25] This is my issue with this is the mental load of buying the time back. So I\u2019m the one who books the babysitters. I book a housecleaner, and then they show up once and never again. So I have to find another one.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:36] So let\u2019s fix that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:37] I do the next thing, so anyway, I like buying my time back, but it\u2019s more work to buy my time back.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:55:43] First of all, I hear that there\u2019s a lot of emotional labor done. Jon, I hope you\u2019re hearing this because it\u2019s not as simple as like, hey, let\u2019s throw some money in the air and then our problems disappear. That takes work.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten, you shouldn\u2019t have to do this alone. All right? So we\u2019re going to figure out a way that if the two of you can do something to get an hour a month for the two of you to just connect on anything, that would be amazing. And if you can get an extra hour for the two of you to talk about money and end that meeting with a smile, wow. How far do you think that that would go in helping with the financial part of your relationship?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:27] I think that would actually end up helping not only on the financial side but on all aspects.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:34] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:35] Yeah. I don\u2019t think it would take much like you said, an hour, a month maybe, or two.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:56:39] Guys, this is a no-brainer. If you have the money and it\u2019s important to you to afford buying back your time, do it. Especially with young kids. I\u2019m not trying to tell you that everybody should adopt my money values. Yes, one of my money dials is convenience, but that\u2019s not the point. You don\u2019t need to have the same money dials as I do.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">My point is, look at Kirsten and Jon. They cannot connect on money. They have children. Their time is short. They already have a babysitter and they can more than afford to hire this babysitter for an extra hour or so. Why not use that extra money to get back their time?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I think the answer is they just haven\u2019t thought about it. The answer is that they are more focused, at least Kirsten is, on fire, on retirement, on this goal 20 years from now than to actually make living a rich life today a priority.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">But think about it. Think of all the differences that even one or two hours a week could do for them. Maybe they could use it to reconnect about money. Maybe they could just go sit somewhere in silence and have dinner. That might be pure bliss for these parents. In short, why not use money to help you live a rich life? That\u2019s what it\u2019s for.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Interview]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:57:55] For me, it would mean having really positive conversations and discussions around money, getting excited when I see the numbers. And I think part of that too is the planning and the vision of what we\u2019re doing with our money and where we\u2019re going with it and that rich life vision that you talk about.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:17] Okay. Love it, love it, love it. Great. Jon, hearing this, how do you feel just hearing Kirsten describe feeling more alive with money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:27] It\u2019s exciting.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:29] Tell me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:58:32] It\u2019s a side that doesn\u2019t get shown currently. Because currently there\u2019s the doldrums low, everything is wrong type of mentality with it. But hearing the possibility on the other side of the coin or the other side of the fence is exciting. It\u2019s like, Why not get excited about it?<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">It\u2019s like when you walk into a room and it\u2019s a bunch of people just standing and looking at their feet, how do you feel? Like shit. But if you walk in and everybody\u2019s partying, dancing, and having fun, you collect that energy, and you start partying, dancing, and having fun.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:22] What do you need to specifically do that I, as an anthropologist, sitting there with a clipboard, would be able to observe you doing?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:32] To actually join the conversation.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:35] Thank you. How would you do that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:59:38] Well, we\u2019ve talked about setting some time aside for a monthly or biweekly meeting and facilitating that in some way of reaching out to our babysitter and actually setting it up and taking something off her plate so that she can feel positive.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:00] I like that. Can we just decide on that right now? Your babysitter\u2019s upstairs, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:05] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:05] So after this conversation, you can go up and confirm with him or her, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:11] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:11] All right, so let\u2019s just pick a time right now. Jon, you take the lead. How would you like to decide or facilitate you and Kirsten setting aside an hour every month to discuss money? Go ahead.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:00:29] Well, actually, I have a slightly different proposal since I need some lessons in basic money to start things off. If we go with maybe two hours a month for the first little bit until I\u2019m up to speed. After this, I can go upstairs. We have revolving appointments for pretty much everything else in our life, so why not this?\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">We have a family calendar. We\u2019ve already got an hour set aside on Sundays. Not an hour, but we already have a discussion set aside on Sundays for how our week\u2019s gone. So why don\u2019t we put a section in there for, say, I know we have date night Fridays, so why don\u2019t we throw one Friday a month as a fun money date night because you\u2019ve told me before, you would have had a lovely time looking at spreadsheets.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:31] Yeah, I think I could agree to having one Friday a month where maybe like you said, we have two hours and we spend one hour talking about finances, and then we can have one hour of time together doing something more fun.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:45] All right. I like that. I\u2019m going to give you a round of applause for that. That was pretty cool. How did you feel about that, Kirsten?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:51] It felt really good to hear having a plan.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:54] Yeah, I liked that. How about you, Jon? How did that feel proposing that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:01:59] The reaction on the other side is what counts.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:03] Yeah, I think that what I\u2019m just seeing is the two of you are building a bond now with money going forward. And in the past, it hasn\u2019t been a top priority. It only comes up when something bad is going on. And I want to change that dynamic. The fact that you two are going to set up time once or twice a month, that\u2019s a huge win.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Now, it\u2019s going into the nuances. How do I want to feel about this conversation? Do I need to get everything out in this one hour? No, honestly, all I want for the two of you is to talk about a couple of things and end on a smile and a kiss and I love you. That is a successful money conversation because you got the rest of your life to iron out the details.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:45] I think we\u2019re on the same page that by overcomplicating this, we\u2019re not really adding any value to our lives.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:52] Correct. Correct.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:02:53] And for Jon\u2019s feelings of not being competent in it, it\u2019s just complicating things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:00] Very good.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:00] It could feel more competent if we just left it simple.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:03] There you go. Okay, great. Okay. Actually, that was really fantastic. Round of applause for Kirsten. Absolutely crushed that answer. That was awesome, Kirsten.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:12] I think this is a perfect topic for one of our discussions, which, by the way, Ramit, I\u2019ve already scheduled for the first Friday of every month. Just so those following along, it\u2019s already been done.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">But, Kirsten, I think this is a perfect opportunity for us to learn more of what we have, and then it gives us an opportunity, we can sit down and we can dream together.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:03:46] That felt really good to watch. I want to offer a suggestion to Jon. Jon, because Kirsten has been carrying so much of the load for so long, I think if I were in your position when I come to that meeting, I would have done my homework.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I would come, having understood this conscious spending plan ahead of time. And if I had questions, I would ask Kirsten. I\u2019m sure she would love to answer any questions you have, and I would come with my own plan. Look at that smile on Kirsten\u2019s face. She\u2019s trying to hold it in right now. Kirsten, if he came with a plan, even if it was 50% wrong, how would that feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:29] Like I had a partner.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:31] No shame, no guilt. Just two partners realigning how you two talk about money together. How does it feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:46] Exciting.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:50] It\u2019s almost like you do this for a living.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[01:04:51] 10 years together, two kids, saved hundreds of thousands of dollars. Income is quite high. A lot of great things here, a lot. I actually loved hearing the kids playing above. I loved it. That\u2019s real. You have kids running around making noise. We have to deal with life. It doesn\u2019t exist in this perfect spreadsheet.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">So if we can use the spreadsheet to give ourselves a little bit of room, and gosh, it makes it so much easier for us to be able to connect, to smile, to go out on a Friday night, and just have fun.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">[Narration]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kirsten and Jon\u2019s fixed costs were a little high at 67%. I spent some time working with them on uncomplicating their financial accounts. I wanted them to stop using investment accounts as piggy banks. That\u2019s not the purpose. And mostly I wanted to help them realize that money can be something that brings them together.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Here\u2019s what they wrote me as a follow-up message. Kirsten said Jon created a live your rich life coloring book and we decorated it as discussed. Her biggest takeaways were moving money around between accounts for a 1.4% interest is taking a lot of time and adding stress for the $11.66 that we earn every month. It isn\u2019t inviting to Jon to ask him for help with financial decisions when he doesn\u2019t feel confident.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Inviting Jon to help me answer questions I don\u2019t know the answer to is more effective. And she wrote, I need to make sure that my more aggressive plan to retire early at age 55 still allows for us to live our rich life now. Awesome.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jon writes, \u201cWe should be aggressively saving for actual things as opposed to just moving money around, which is causing an unneeded amount of stress. And I want to bring a positive attitude into the conversation and add some fun to it, which can change the entire dynamic of our conversation.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">I think these are great takeaways. I want to thank Kirsten and Jon for coming on this podcast. I have a lot of confidence in them making the changes that we discussed. Thank you for listening.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You to Be Rich. I am Ramit Sethi. Please follow the show<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">on Apple, Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven\u2019t read I Will Teach You To<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">Be Rich, my book, pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library and it will show<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">you these specific tactics for how to build the I Will Teach You To Be Rich system into your<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-contrast=\"none\">personal finances.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335551550&quot;:0,&quot;335551620&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Kirsten and Jon are both 34, raising two young boys in Canada. Kirsten, an engineer, is all about problems and solutions, going as far as \u201cparenting\u201d Jon when he overspends. Jon avoids money talk like the plague, even giving up his use of the joint credit card to avoid further static at home. Tools mentioned [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119147","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119147","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119147"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119147\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119147"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119147"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}