{"id":119160,"date":"2021-09-14T16:53:45","date_gmt":"2021-09-14T20:53:45","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119160"},"modified":"2025-03-31T17:38:31","modified_gmt":"2025-03-31T21:38:31","slug":"009-jordan-dan","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/009-jordan-dan\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 9: \u201cI hid thousands of dollars of credit card debt from my husband\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/6pGqrKvO45jduJjNTGMRM7?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Jordan wasn\u2019t raised to talk about money. She constantly saw her mom withhold money matters from her dad, and now, history is repeating itself. Jordan has hidden her debt from her husband, Dan, twice. He feels violated. This is not the kind of thing you do when you\u2019re saving for a down payment on a house and building a family. He needs the problem not to happen again.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Before talking this out with me, neither realized they were on the verge of a relationship breakdown. Most people don\u2019t truly appreciate the consequences of their actions. They run away from their problems and shove important issues under the rug. Jordan thought she could fix this alone, but her mom wiped out her debt the first time around (it takes her a while to drop that bombshell), and she\u2019s still learning how to talk about finances openly after growing up with a money code of shame and secrets.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Listen to their initial money visions. They\u2019re as imaginative as a cardboard box. There are lofty visions of \u201ctravel\u201d and \u201ca kid,\u201d but no specifics. Nothing to get excited about. No wonder why they aren\u2019t investing or saving together.<\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Tools mentioned in this episode<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b><span data-contrast=\"auto\">Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/Transcript-IWT-9.-Dan-and-Jordan.pdf\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download PDF of the transcript here.<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:03] I was running late from work and showed up at the office, and she was having a conversation with him, and the first thing he was talking about as I sat down was how to manage credit card debt now that she had $10,000 of credit card debt, and I was like, you have $10,000 of credit card debt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:21] I thought I could fix it for a long time. I kept telling myself, why bring somebody else into this space when it\u2019s so awful? I don\u2019t want anybody else to feel like this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:31] I just kind of felt like my trust was rocked for those first two weeks, like I just kind of felt violated, and it wasn\u2019t even my money. If we want to have a family together and grow together, like this can\u2019t happen anymore.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:47] I\u2019m Ramit Sethi, and this is the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast. My guests today are Dan and Jordan. Dan earns $125,000 a year and Jordan earns $60,000 a year. And for the most part, I don\u2019t really think about money that much, or at least that\u2019s what Dan thought, right up until the moment when he discovered Jordan was keeping $10,000 in credit card debt from him, and it wasn\u2019t the first time. Let\u2019s listen in.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:18] We were meeting with our financial advisor for the first time and had shared it in that space.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:24] I was running late from work, and showed up at the office, and she was having a conversation with him. And the first thing he was talking about as I sat down was credit card debt and how to manage credit card debt now that she had $10,000 of credit card debt. And I was like, you have $10,000 of credit card debt, like how? And in those types of conversations, like he obviously was like, you didn\u2019t know this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:52] I didn\u2019t want to have that conversation there, like I\u2019d wanted to keep it progressing and focus on everything we were there to accomplish. And if it happened, we need to figure out a way forward. I think what was jarring to me is that, technically, we are married, and like a good tenant of a good marriage or a good relationship period is communication, and the fact that that didn\u2019t even get shared with me, because a lot of the debt was from our wedding.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:20] Our parents were very gracious with us and generous on wedding-related costs, and I thought, net, like we were good. I even invested a little bit in advance of the wedding and made some off-the-stock market and threw it towards the wedding, like I thought we had nothing. So, that was really surprising to me, because I never wanted to go in debt for a wedding. Like I just thought that was outrageous. So, hearing that not only caught me off guard, but it was kind of like, why wouldn\u2019t you just share this with me?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:52] Yes, so horrifying. Honestly, I kept it a secret, because I thought I could fix it for a long time. I had an idea in my head that I\u2019d be able to do it on my own. I also had this, I think, fear about what the reaction would be. And I think after so long, it just was a part of me, and I knew how much it impacted me emotionally that I was worried about what and how it would impact Dan in the long run, like it\u2019s going to suck either way, and it sucked either way. But I had this idea in my head, I had one of those invisible manuscripts in my head that I\u2019d fix it. And I went through it for a long time of like, I can fix it, I can fix it, I\u2019ll get it down, it\u2019s not a big deal. That, I think, is that, in a nutshell, is that I really felt that I could do it myself and that I didn\u2019t need help from anybody else.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:42] The best predictor of your future behavior is your past behavior. So, I suspected this wasn\u2019t a one-time thing. Usually, when you see people behaving in a peculiar way with money, it\u2019s not the first time. By the way, this is true in many different parts of life. There\u2019s a great book called The Gift of Fear by Gavin de Becker, and he talks about how when violent crimes happen, inevitably, the local news will go out there, interview the neighbors, and they\u2019ll always say the same thing. He was such a nice guy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:12] And then, more times than you can believe, they\u2019ll do a little bit of investigation, a little bit of digging, and you\u2019ll find out there was a history of unusual, or destructive, or even criminal behavior. By the time you notice something is really off, it\u2019s almost never the first time. Now, I highly recommend that book, it\u2019s called The Gift of Fear, and you can actually search for Ramit book recommendations to find out more of my favorite books. Let\u2019s see if my suspicions here are correct.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:42] A second go around was when we were applying for our mortgage or applying for approval for our mortgage.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:49] Lending application.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:49] Or, lending application. And so, both times, they came out in other places, so not like me like finally coming to my knees or like coming to the ground to be like, hey, this is happening, this is hard. They came out in, I don\u2019t know, public ways is the right way to say it, but in spaces involving other people, where that information was then like disclosed or brought up from those spaces.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:15] Do you think that makes it different that it involved other people?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:18] Yeah, absolutely. The impact of it, it felt maybe more weighted, because I didn\u2019t come to him initially, right? Like I didn\u2019t come to say, hey, I\u2019m having a really fucking hard time, I\u2019m in debt, I have accrued this debt, like I need help.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:34] So, we put Jordan on a good track record of like, okay, let\u2019s move this debt over to a zero percent interest credit card for a year, let\u2019s figure out how you can chip away at it, and eventually like get this down to zero. She was making great progress on it. Like I think, what was it Jordan, for like two years? You got it down from what, like 12, $10,000 to six?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:57] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:58] So, she did a great job. I think what\u2019s really frustrating looking forward to when we are submitting lending applications is that it came again, and like I knew there wasn\u2019t any like big purchases happening or anything along those lines, and I just kind of felt like my trust was rocked in the form of really like not disclosing that since we had already been through it before and the fact of like putting thousands of dollars again back into the credit card, which is the worst debt that you can have, and not sharing about it when we\u2019re putting massive documents out there to get approved for lending, like that\u2019s an issue for me, especially since I was the one putting up all of the money for a home.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:47] So, like I can forgive you on the first time, I can forgive you on the second time, but like as a family, if we want to have a family together and grow together, like this can\u2019t happen anymore. And like we\u2019re not rich people right now. I mean, like in terms of how you define it, like, yes, we\u2019re doing pretty well for our age, but at the end of the day, like we can\u2019t really afford that going forward, especially like when you think of-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:20] So, her parents were going to give us the money for a down payment or something, that money, in conversation after this, we put towards the credit card to get rid of all of that rather than putting it in towards a home that would probably appreciate, what, maybe like 4% a year or something along those lines, like it just didn\u2019t make sense. So, take that out of the equation, now, it\u2019s like 100% me putting anything into this down payment, plus anything that needs to go into the home. So, it\u2019s heavy, but like we talk a lot about it and I think we\u2019ve worked through it pretty well, but for those first two weeks, like I just kind of felt violated, and it wasn\u2019t even my money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:02] Notice the language that Dan is using here. He said, my trust was rocked, this can\u2019t happen again, and I felt violated. This is a huge issue in their relationship. Now, if you were in my role, what would you do right now? Where would you take the conversation? My instinct is telling me something here, it\u2019s telling me to dig deeper, and it\u2019s telling me that they don\u2019t fully understand the implications of what\u2019s going on right here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:31] I\u2019ve talked to lots of people, and they\u2019ll say, oh, yeah, this is a big deal, this is a nine out of 10, and the other partner will agree, but when I probe to see if they really understand what\u2019s at stake, that sometimes, they are weeks away from potentially ending the relationship, the other partner is totally stunned. Most people don\u2019t truly appreciate the consequences of their actions on their partner.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:57] The first time, I was just more like surprised than anything, and I saw it as more of like a teachable moment. The second time, it was just like, we\u2019re married, like we have great communication with one another and we share everything with each other. So, like why couldn\u2019t you share this with me?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:15] The emotionality of it for me and the matter of factness of it for him is so striking for us all the time, and not for us, I guess for me, for sure. Everything I do is with an emotion. I don\u2019t have an off switch. I am constantly assessing other people\u2019s emotions, my emotions. I\u2019m worried about other people\u2019s emotions. I was so sick about what would happen or what Dan\u2019s reaction would be. I knew it would be awful. I knew how disappointed he would be.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:47] I\u2019m not buying it. Remember what I said? People with money problems love to talk about their money problems, but it\u2019s not enough to talk about your problems. It\u2019s not even enough to admit you have a problem, like Jordan just did when she admitted she knew it would be awful. This is where people commonly make a mistake. They\u2019ll say things like, I get it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:08] I totally screwed up by showing up late again, or I know, I need to stop overspending on the credit card. Guys, admitting a problem is a good first step, but it\u2019s just the first step, especially when a partner is involved. They need to see change, not just hear words. I want to probe how Jordan is feeling about this. I think she\u2019s using a lot of words, but I still don\u2019t really understand how this is affecting her.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:34] So shitty, guilt. I mean, I guess still some guilt, but better. Oh, I was going to make it up\u2014see, I\u2019m going to get emotional. It\u2019s hard. I mean, it\u2019s really hard. Sorry. It\u2019s so hard to think about having, like to hear how unequal they are is hard. But for the first time, I feel like, yeah, like it\u2019s not heavy, that there\u2019s a chance, like that I have a chance to do better. That feels better and okay. I mean, I haven\u2019t been able to say that, like prior, I haven\u2019t been able to actually look at what I have without seeing a deep dark hole.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:26] It was hard to have to unload it onto other people. It\u2019s still hard to have to have done that, like to let other people into that hole. When I go back and think about how it came, how the information came out, like how it finally came to be, I I regret it, but I don\u2019t know how I would have been able to have gotten to that point, otherwise, I really don\u2019t. And that\u2019s so scary to think about. It really is. It\u2019s so horrifying to think about.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:56] As a partner and being someone who\u2019s solution-oriented, like there\u2019s no way that I can\u2019t just like not help her through this and try to make it more approachable. And we\u2019ve had those conversations, like we talked about previously of like, okay, how do we make this where you can be a little bit more vulnerable and I can help answer questions to make it better? But at the end of the day, like it\u2019s just a tough scenario, and it\u2019s still relatively new, even though it happened once, previously.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:34] Yeah. One of the things I\u2019m hearing from you, Dan, is that it sounds like you are willing to engage, have discussions, understand her perspective, but also, you need this problem to not happen again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:54] Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:58] At this point, I was feeling a little stuck. I had hoped to get them to talk about what the consequences of this behavior would be on their relationship. Instead, we sort of got sucked back into this black hole of how she feels bad. And that\u2019s very common. Again, people with money problems love to talk about their money problems. At a certain point, it almost becomes intoxicating, you cannot escape it, and yet you have Dan over here who\u2019s being, matter of fact, very cool about it, and that can be very dangerous to the relationship. So, I was feeling stuck, I decided I\u2019m going to zoom out, see if I can figure out what their world view of money is. When you think about money, what\u2019s the first word that comes to mind for you?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:49] Oh, whoo, I associate my mom with money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:52] Bingo. I didn\u2019t expect that, but boy, oh, boy, is that a clue? What word comes to mind when you think about your mom and money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:02] A lot of it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:04] She had a lot of money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:06] Has.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:07] Has a lot of money. Okay.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:09] I think right now, that\u2019s what I think of. If you were to ask me a couple of weeks ago, and you had said money, I would have said something probably really dark.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:16] Like what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:18] I have like black, death. Like, really, yeah, dark, like it was heavy. Heavy. I would have said heavy. I think a lot about how I was raised with money or how I wasn\u2019t. We didn\u2019t talk about it. My mom, there\u2019s still some secrets between in their relationship, and I see a lot of that, it\u2019s gone. I don\u2019t have it anymore. I don\u2019t have debt anymore.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:44] Why? What happened?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:45] Because my mom paid it off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:47] Jordan just went off on a long digression about money and Dan, and then right at the end, she mentioned that she used to have debt and that it magically got paid off. I was like, what? My sister\u2019s a doctor, and there\u2019s a running joke in the medical field that you sit down with your patients, and you ask them, what\u2019s wrong? And they go, nothing, doc, I feel fine, it\u2019s just I\u2019m a little tired sometimes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:08] So, you talk for 15 minutes, and then as they\u2019re walking out, they have one foot literally outside the door, they turn around, and go, oh, by the way, Doc, I can\u2019t breathe at night, and my head started bleeding two days ago, and both of my feet are totally swollen. Anyway, thanks for the Tylenol prescription, talk to you next time. This happens to me all the time. Like this. Why? What happened?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:33] Because my mom paid it off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:35] How were you raised as it relates to money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:38] I always had it. Always had, I could always ask for it. It was always there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:45] And who brought in the money in your family?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:47] My mom.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:48] Your mom. And what about your dad? Did he work?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:52] He had a lot of seasonal jobs. He had had a full-time job at one point, and then got pretty sick, and so wasn\u2019t able to do that. And so, there were a string of sort of incidents that led to him being unemployed for a long time, and then trying to find work, and not being able to find work. So, money, it\u2019s a sensitive topic in my family, but it\u2019s also a very open topic as well.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:20] What do you mean?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:21] We talk about it, but it\u2019s touchy, how my parents spend it, who spends it. Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:29] I think you\u2019d to go a level deeper on it, too, because like her parents were raised very differently. Like her mom\u2019s family like grew up in corporate America, like her grandfather was like a staple of the community. Her dad\u2019s side of the family was dirt poor. So, like when you put those two together, that\u2019s very much how their relationship is today. So, like her mom is the breadwinner, her dad is basically retired early and kind of just takes care of the community around him, and he\u2019s kept that, I grew up poor mindset, so I can\u2019t spend this money. And there\u2019s a couple of levels to why her mom doesn\u2019t necessarily share things with her dad, because her dad would just go crazy about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:13] He\u2019s possessive of how it\u2019s spent, who spends it, who gets it. I think about this a little bit in sort of our relationship, too, maybe it\u2019s just like, I don\u2019t make a lot of money, my dad didn\u2019t make a lot of money. Dan and my mom are very similar, my dad and I are very similar, that I think money for my dad and I is emotional or can be emotional in the sense. And I think a lot about the way he uses or doesn\u2019t use money, it\u2019s so varied, it\u2019s so varied. Yeah. So, I guess from that perspective, the sensitive thing, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:48] So, we talk about it, and then we\u2019ll be in conversations with my parents, and we talk about money with them, but then it depends. It\u2019s very delicate. So, my dad needed a new car at some point and has never owned a brand new vehicle. Mom had said, what kind of car do you want? Right? My dad loves a G wagon. It\u2019s like his dream car. And my mom was like, great, let\u2019s get you a G wagon, we can get you a G wagon. Absolutely. So, now, he\u2019s driving my 2004 Ford Escape that has a cracked windshield, and you know what I mean? He could not possibly imagine having put money into a car.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:26] I see. It sounds like your mom would have easily been able to afford that and he wanted it, but he just couldn\u2019t bring himself to accept that. Is that correct?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:39] Yeah. And I\u2019ve been in occasions or conversations with my mom, where we talk about like, is this something that we tell dad, do we not? Dan\u2019s been there, too, we\u2019re like, oh, do we tell him? Do we not tell him? Like if we do tell him, how do we tell him? Do we tell him all of it? Do we not?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:53] Because what? If you tell him, we\u2019re going to go buy this expensive thing, how is he going to react?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:01] I wish you could see my facial expressions, whoever is listening. Dicey.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:08] Can you think of an example?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:08] Deeply hurt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:10] It hurt. That\u2019s a good one, hurt.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:11] Deeply hurt and angry.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:14] Why?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:15] Being the emotional guy, because he wasn\u2019t consulted, and he didn\u2019t have a say in it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:20] He\u2019s not involved.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:22] Even though he\u2019s not the breadwinner.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:24] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:25] It\u2019s irrelevant.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:26] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:28] So, you walk on eggshells when it comes to financial things, you find it difficult to bring certain things up, you actually strategize about what to bring up and what not to bring up. And I\u2019m going to venture to guess that you have probably forgotten on a couple of occasions, and something slipped out, and he got angry mad. Can you think of an example like that? Okay. This is it. This is the clue.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:55] Remember a few minutes ago when I asked you, what would you do if you were me? Now, as you\u2019re hearing what Jordan is saying about how she was raised, would you change your answer? What we\u2019re hearing right now is the crux of what\u2019s driving Jordan\u2019s behavior, her overspending, and more importantly, her hiding of money. Can you hear it? Jordan, do you think there are any cultural issues and\/or gender issues with-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:24] Oh, yeah, oh, gender, for sure.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:27] Talk to me about this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:29] My dad is a macho. I mean, I think there\u2019s a lot that goes into him not making the money in our family as a male. I think that there\u2019s a lot of sensitivity to the fact that he doesn\u2019t provide for our family in some sense, right? And I think what\u2019s so fascinating is that\u2014so I\u2019m a psychologist. I mean, mental health is my game. Like I self-analyze the hell out of everybody, and I think so often about my dad provides in so many other ways. He really does.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:02] I mean, he is the backbone of our family for so many reasons that aren\u2019t bringing in money or having a job, but I think it cuts him in pieces. He worries very much so that my mom will leave him, like that there\u2019s this other mysterious person out there that my mom could be with, right? Like why is my mom with him, or why is your mom with me? Right? Like I don\u2019t bring anything to the table. Why are we still together kind of a thing? It didn\u2019t go on-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:37] Did he say it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:37] He\u2019ll say that in spaces, yeah. Yeah, pretty openly, I think. Yeah, I think that, if anything, there\u2019s definitely gender roles. I think the gender things play into it very much.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:51] Here\u2019s what I\u2019m noticing. Jordan grew up in a dynamic where she was trained to walk on eggshells around money. She literally strategized about what to say and what not to say. If you learn from a young age that money issues are secretive and shameful, it\u2019s almost no surprise that Jordan has grown up to keep financial secrets to herself and her partner. And these are secrets that carry strong, negative emotions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:21] Imagine that from a young age, when you see money, you don\u2019t just see a five-dollar bill, you have an entire extra layer that rings in your head. Should I talk about this? Will dad get mad? I should probably just be quiet about this and not mention it to anybody. It\u2019s constant. It\u2019s ever present. And after a few years, it\u2019s just a low-level buzzing in the back of your head any time money comes up. You may think you\u2019re good, but deep down, this is like a tiny needle that\u2019s pressing on your skin every day for 25 years, you\u2019ve just learned to live with it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:56] At one point, probably the second go around, I would look at my credit card statement, and I would say, well, I\u2019ve already got this much, so I might as well just keep on going, or I\u2019ve already got this much, there\u2019s nothing that I can do here. There\u2019s nothing that I can do that\u2019s going to make this better, so why bother, or why bring somebody else in? Right? I think that was a big one for me that I kept telling myself, is why bring somebody else into this space when it\u2019s so awful?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:28] Why do I need to bring somebody else into this? It\u2019s already awful for me, I don\u2019t want anybody else to feel like this. I didn\u2019t want anybody to feel what I was feeling. I felt awful. To have somebody else feel that way didn\u2019t feel like an option. I\u2019ll give you a real life example. So, I got charged extra for this massage and the membership that I have, and I was like, uh-uh, I just read Ramit\u2019s book, I\u2019m about to call them, and I\u2019m about to get my money back, and I\u2019m about to cut them up, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:01] And it didn\u2019t work. I came quick, real fast. So, I\u2019m trying, I think like the more that I can get into it and the more that I can familiarize myself with the terms, and the knowledge, and that stuff, I certainly have more of a drive to do it than I did before. I can say that 100%. I think one of my invisible money scripts was, I can\u2019t do this, I can\u2019t do this, it\u2019s too overwhelming.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:27] Well, you said to me yourself that you are an emotional person and the way you said it was almost as if to relinquish control.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:37] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:38] I\u2019m an emotional person, therefore I\u2019m not good with money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:42] Yes.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:43] And can you think of anyone else in your life who\u2019s emotional and not good with money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:48] I mean, my dad, but he\u2019s still good with money, he just doesn\u2019t use it. Does that count?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:53] I guess. Would you describe him as good with money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:59] No, because he doesn\u2019t use it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:00] Yeah, so he\u2019s actually not good with money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:02] Yeah. You got me. Yeah, 100%.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:09] You living out the programming of growing up with your family as trite as it is, but it\u2019s no surprise. And when I hear you talking about the anxiety you felt about even bringing it up, because as you said, you spend 50% of the time on yourself, 50% of the time on Dan, and add those up, you were 100% preoccupied with, what would he say? That fear becomes so looming, it suddenly becomes its own problem. And what do we do when we encounter problems?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:45] Most of us are not solution-oriented. It takes a lot of work to become solution-oriented. So, most of us, when we encounter the problem the first time, we do the same thing everybody else does, we run away. So, I can see why the first time, it happened. That, I understand. The second time is much trickier. I want to dig into this idea, because you\u2019ve both mentioned potentially having a family at some point. And this seems like a really important issue to get corrected before that happens, adding that kind of complexity with a child or children would be very, very challenging.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:30] I think short-term right now, we\u2019re trying to buy a house, so a house, for sure. Long term, I think travel is a big one for us, and wanting to be able to travel without having to worry, that we can just pick where we want to go and we can go.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:51] And where do you want to go?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:52] Oh, okay, what was on our\u2014I mean, Spain, I think, is the next one we got to\u2014Spain.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:59] So, a house and travel, very good. Dan, what about you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:04] I mean, the house is the biggest piece for us right now, just because we live it every single day, especially in this crazy market, like that top one, two and three for us at the moment, just because we\u2019re so engulfed in it. I think like two for me is I see it as more kind of like a step after the house is having a kid.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:23] Do you guys save together?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:27] No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:27] Uh-uh.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:30] Do you invest together?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:32] No, we haven\u2019t gotten there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:33] Okay. Do you know why you don\u2019t save and invest together?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:39] All my money was going towards debt and I was keeping that a secret. And so, to have those things together meant that, somehow, I saw a connection between\u2014that\u2019s my initial thing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:52] Nope, that\u2019s not it. She thinks that\u2019s it, but that\u2019s not it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:57] That first time when we walked into the financial advisors office and I learned of all the debt that she never shared with me, so like that kind of made me feel some sort of way.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:07] One of the principles that I want to share with both of you is something I really crystallized when I went on our honeymoon. You might remember this story from episode four of the podcast, where I sat down with John and Wendy to teach them about the importance of both having skin in the game if they want to play together. Skin in the game. It means if you go on a trip, everybody who comes needs to plan at least something, even if it\u2019s just bringing the sunscreen. If you haven\u2019t heard that episode yet, go back and listen to it for the full story so that you understand this rule.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:41] But essentially, the key principle here is that one way to get buy-in is to make everybody have to put a little skin in the game. If you\u2019re bringing someone along with you in whatever part of life, they need to put some skin in the game. Now, I think that there\u2019s an opportunity for both of you to do the same thing here. One of the reasons that you both are not saving and investing beyond the secret debt and beyond all these things is that neither of you have anything you\u2019re actually saving for. Everything you\u2019re saving for is really boring. Did you hear it? Do you guys remember what you told me?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:22] Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:23] I\u2019m pretty excited about this house, Ramit.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:25] The house is cool. Okay. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s a beautiful house. I\u2019m sure it\u2019s great.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:28] What about the future kid?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:31] What about it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:32] I thought Spain was nice.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:33] What about the kids? You didn\u2019t tell me anything about what you want to spend the money on.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:36] He did indicate that it was going to be a male, which I don\u2019t appreciate.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:40] No, I didn\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:41] Yes, you did. You said he, and we can roll the tape back, but that\u2019s neither here nor there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:46] Well, okay, we can talk about the gender stuff later, but I have to tell you, Dan, I\u2019m not excited by saving for a kid. What are you going to spend the money on for your son or daughter?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:02] Alright, you got me.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:03] Some Js.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:05] Hold on. I\u2019m not trying to get anybody, I\u2019m trying to get your dreams out on paper so that you both have a reason to save together. And when you do this, Dan and Jordan, you\u2019re not going to have to push each other, which, I found, is a really losing battle, especially when you are at divergent levels of expertise and interest, but rather, you\u2019re going to be pulled towards the things that create your rich life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:33] So, I want to do a different exercise this time, because I was bored by what you told me, Oh, I want to travel. So does everybody. I want to breathe oxygen. You got anything else for me? Let\u2019s dream a little bigger. So, instead of a couple of things that you\u2019re interested in, I want to ask you both to take 30 seconds and I want you to think about your bucket list items, the amazing things you want to do or accomplish. And it could be individual, it could be joined together. Take 30 seconds.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:14] I want to have multiple properties in different cities for us to be able to travel to. So, like I would love to retire well before 65 and have a couple of different properties that we could either Airbnb on the side, and then enjoy with friends and family if we want to go visit the city. For example, like I would love to have a house in Savannah. I would love to have a place in New Orleans. Another spot in Minneapolis and such.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:42] Fantastic. Way more compelling. I love this. So, you have this concept, you have multiple properties, and they\u2019re big enough that you could go with friends, you could let them stay while you\u2019re not there, you can Airbnb it out for a little extra cash. And what age do you want to retire at?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:00] Man, I\u2019d love to retire at like 55.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:03] Okay. This is a vision. Fifty-five, you\u2019re driving around to the, oh, let\u2019s go to New Orleans today. Ah, you know what, Minneapolis tomorrow. That\u2019s a rich life. Okay. Hold on to that. I love that. Jordan, what about you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:19] I have two. One\u2019s together, one\u2019s individual. Together goal, I hope you\u2019re not going to think this is boring, man, I want to take Dan to Italy. I want to do a full-on, like top to bottom train trip to Italy. Like start at the top, start in Milan, Cinque Terre, come down to Florence, Siena, do the whole Chianti region, the south is a little scary sometimes, but I want to take like an entire, I just want to go top to bottom Italy together. And actually, I\u2019d like to bring my family, too. I like traveling with our family. I think it\u2019d be a great time. I\u2019d like to bring my family along, our families along, and do an entire top to bottom Italy, full court appetizers. I want the cheese board and play, I want the bottle of wine, I want all that. I want that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:17] I love it. I am inspired and my mouth is watering. Okay. Hold on. I got to ask a few questions, because this is the kind of trip that I\u2019m living for. How long is this trip in your mind?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:31] A month.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:32] A month. Okay. So, that means both of you take a month off of work, whatever work is, to do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:39] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:40] Great.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:41] It definitely can\u2019t be less than a month.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:42] Oh, at least a month. Beautiful. And you seem to know all the cities that you want to go to. You know that you want appetizers, you know the kind of food and drinks you want. Is there anything else in the back of your head you know, I\u2019m going to do this?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:59] In Italy?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:00] Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:01] It\u2019s got to be in the summer. Summertime. I would even like, what are those like boats that you get to take, the gondola? I definitely want a gondola involved there. Oh, the Amalfi Coast. That\u2019s the other one. You\u2019ve got to hit the Amalfi Coast and do\u2014like I think you wrap up the Amalfi Coast on the beach where you\u2019re relaxing, or like you spent all that time hustle, bustle, all the cities up top, mid-region is Chianti, so you catch your breath there, and then you hit the Amalfi Coast at the end to like top it off, cherry on top.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:33] Who\u2019s coming with you? How many people?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:35] I think, oh, two\u2014I\u2019d be intrigued to like bring people in and out, like we say, hey, we\u2019re going for the month, right? We\u2019re going for one month. This is where we\u2019re going to be. Hop in, hop out. It\u2019s like one of those hop on, hop off bus tours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:50] I love it. Dan, what do you think about this trip?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:53] It sounds fantastic.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:54] Did you know about this idea that Jordan has had?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Dan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:59] She\u2019s always wanted to take me back to Italy, because that\u2019s where she studied abroad for six months. So, like it was a very special place in her heart, and my extent of traveling to Europe was like the UK for a week, so I\u2019ve always wanted to go.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:16] Okay. You guys, this is exciting. This is visionary. This is the kind of stuff that gets you both a reason to talk about money regularly, to learn about the mechanics of money, and to start investing early and consistently. It\u2019s great because one of the things I wanted to emphasize on our call today is nothing wrong with having emotions about money, and I\u2019ve had to learn this. I grew up very utilitarian, practical.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:53] Like I said, I want to get to the model. The model does not have any emotional turmoil. It\u2019s just math. It\u2019s so simple. But what I\u2019ve learned is money is emotion. It\u2019s psychological. It\u2019s rooted in our childhood. Nothing wrong with that, but you also have to apply a level of mastery to the mechanics of it. It\u2019s just like driving, right? It can be scary, but you need to learn how to drive. Great. How do you feel about learning about personal finance?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:23] It\u2019s better. I feel capable and competent to take in information and ask questions about the things that I don\u2019t understand.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:32] Yes, beautiful, you trust yourself, yeah, this is a new language you\u2019re learning. Of course, it\u2019s going to be hard, you\u2019re making some mistakes, you\u2019re going to trust yourself, and you have Dan, who\u2019s really experienced, totally aligned with you. So, if you have questions, you can ask him about it, right? Another thing is you are emotional about money, and so am I, and so is Dan. That can be a strength when you balance it with this new knowledge that you\u2019re going to get from reading the book and practice it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jordan:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:59] Yeah. I love the metaphor of like, it\u2019s a new language, like learning a new language. It feels like that. That resonates a lot. I think there\u2019s such a stigma in talking about money, and I know that firsthand. And so, this, I think, was another nice step for me in the space of like being able to naturally talk about money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:22] This was an interesting conversation. There is still a lot for Jordan to unpack about how she was raised around money. There\u2019s also a lot for both Dan and Jordan to construct in their new joint way of looking at money. But one of the things you heard me do just in the last few minutes is to really shift them away from talking about their problems, which exist, and are real, and definitely need to be addressed, and to start talking about what they want to do with their money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:52] In other words, it\u2019s typically a very bad strategy to sit there and only talk about problems. It\u2019s also a horrible strategy to tell people, you got to stop that, berating people does not work. I found it\u2019s way more compelling to help people construct their own vision of a rich life, and then teach them the foundations. Learn how a Roth IRA works. Learn your debt payoff date. And when you combine those two things, it\u2019s beautiful, rich life vision, plus the basic foundations and mechanics of money, you\u2019re on your way towards a rich life. Here\u2019s what you\u2019ll find next week on the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:40] I hate it because I know we\u2019re paying so much interest right now here and there, and it\u2019s all money that we could actually be paying off the debt and putting aside in savings to actually buy things, not credit, or save, so we can go to a trip, or save for a future cottage, or this, or that. Instead, I feel like we\u2019re throwing money out the window.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:03] When she asks me for stuff, I want to say yes. She\u2019s my wife. I love her. I want to please her. If she asked me where I want to be in a year, hopefully, I\u2019ll be here, but might not, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335559685&quot;:-225,&quot;335559737&quot;:-225,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Jordan wasn\u2019t raised to talk about money. She constantly saw her mom withhold money matters from her dad, and now, history is repeating itself. Jordan has hidden her debt from her husband, Dan, twice. He feels violated. This is not the kind of thing you do when you\u2019re saving for a down payment on [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119160","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119160","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119160"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119160\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119160"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119160"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}