{"id":119161,"date":"2021-09-21T16:56:32","date_gmt":"2021-09-21T20:56:32","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119161"},"modified":"2025-03-31T17:38:15","modified_gmt":"2025-03-31T21:38:15","slug":"010-jennifer-jacques","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/010-jennifer-jacques\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 10. \u201cMoney is overwhelming, so we find instant gratification elsewhere\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/1eeT5DyfJJslmOYOCMcWhD?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Jacques and Jennifer are stuck in a money rut. They are trapped by their $40,000 debt. Jennifer feels overwhelmed with money talk, and Jaques doesn\u2019t want to say no to his wife. When he comes home from work, they\u2019re both tired, so they order takeout, overspend\u2026and repeat the cycle.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">This isn\u2019t a math problem. It runs way deeper into their money identity and sense of self.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Jacques grew up in a poor household and was always told no, so he\u2019ll do anything not to feel that way again. As a stay-at-home mom, Jennifer feels the money is \u201chis,\u201d so she finds control and comfort in food. Suddenly, all of these restaurant trips and takeout receipts are starting to make more sense. The relationship between food and finance is a tricky one to navigate.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Then I ask about their Rich Life. Listen to how vague they are about their future financial goals. When you\u2019ve got a large debt that seems insurmountable, it\u2019s hard to look ahead.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">But I think there\u2019s a way to get them to take ownership of their money.<\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Tools mentioned in this episode<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/Transcript-IWT-10.-Jacques-and-Jennifer.pdf\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download PDF of the transcript here.<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:03] I hate it. I hate it because I know we\u2019re paying so much interest right now here and there, and it\u2019s all money that we could actually be paying off the debt and putting aside in savings to actually buy things, not credit, or save so we can go to a trip, or save for a future cottage, or this, or that. Instead, I feel like we\u2019re throwing money out the window.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:30] When she asks me for stuff, I want to say yes. She\u2019s my wife. I love her. I want to please her. When she asked me where I want to be in a year, hopefully, I\u2019ll be here, but might not, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:43] I\u2019m stuck at home as a stay-at-home mom, but I still can\u2019t go outside and socialize, and we just moved in this new city that I don\u2019t know absolutely no one. So, I\u2019ve been alone for months now. And when Jacques gets home, I know he\u2019s tired from work and he needs his own time, so I leave him alone.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:06] My name is Ramit Sethi. Welcome to the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast. My guests on this episode are Jennifer and Jacques, who contacted me, because they\u2019re in debt and they just feel stuck. Now, the more I talk to them, the more I realize how common their situation really is. He goes to work. She stays home with the kids. At the end of the day, they\u2019re both tired. They order takeout. They overeat.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:31] They don\u2019t track their spending. But something really interesting happened when we shifted from their problems going towards a solution. And as I always say, people who have financial problems love to talk about their financial problems. They are problem-oriented and many of them can spend their entire lives talking about what\u2019s not working. But as I switched them to focusing on what their rich life is, we had a pretty fascinating breakthrough. So, listen into today\u2019s conversation with Jennifer and Jacques.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:09] I feel like she\u2019s spending too much, and I\u2019d like to pay the debt, and the reason she spends a lot, she\u2019s asking me, when she asks me to buy something is because she\u2019s asking, are we having enough money, right? And I just want to say yes, because I don\u2019t know, I want to please her, right? So, it\u2019s things like buying, ordering out, because we can\u2019t go to restaurants right now, but ordering out for me is, every once in a while is fine, but if we do it more than once a week, then it\u2019s starting to be too much. But I\u2019ve never really mentioned it, so a lot of work.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:57] I feel like I\u2019m in the dark. He\u2019s the one who takes care of the finances, mostly because when it comes to that, I\u2019m more visual, so I have to have chart and everything, but because numbers are really not my biggest strength, the moment you see numbers, it feels like a whole total other realm as much as I want to know what\u2019s going on. So, the moment we start talking about the budget, I know we need to get a budget, get things in order, but I feel overwhelmed.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:36] Because I don\u2019t know what we\u2019re\u2014like I don\u2019t know, I feel like I\u2019m in the dark, so I kind of played blind, and okay, well, he\u2019ll take care of it. So, I\u2019ll be asking, okay, do we have money to buy this or do we have money to buy that? And it\u2019s mostly, usually stuff that we need for the kids. It\u2019s not like I\u2019m asking for a purse or something, because I\u2019m always kind of asking permission.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:07] This is a common pattern. It\u2019s one partner throwing up their hands, saying, I\u2019m not good at money, can you just do it? And then, over time, that very same person starts to feel in the dark. They feel out of control. Sometimes, they feel resentful. So, they push and they demonstrate their discomfort in lots of different ways. They\u2019ll start fights about interest or cable bills. But the real problem is not the cable, it\u2019s deeper.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:36] It\u2019s a feeling of being out of control. Now, it\u2019s really easy to sit back and yell at them, well, you need to learn about money, duh. Well, that\u2019s easy to say. There are often very good reasons why people don\u2019t just pick up a book, and I say that as someone who wrote a book on personal finance. Listen to how Jennifer\u2019s psychology and her behavior is affecting her.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:01] So, I need to get them stuff, and of course, I\u2019ll get anxious, so I can\u2019t sleep. So, Jacques, I think he doesn\u2019t want to cause me grief, and more worry and stress, so he kind of doesn\u2019t talk to me about the numbers, kind of like\u2014well, I know he means well, but I do feel like a child, because I feel like, oh, well, he\u2019s taking care of me, right? But at the same time, I\u2019m kind of sick and tired of having to ask all the time.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:34] I know I\u2019m the stay-at-home mom, so money-wise at the moment, I\u2019m not bringing anything. I haven\u2019t for a few years. So, I feel like it\u2019s his money, because he\u2019s the one bringing the income home, so I don\u2019t want to ask for money, so I kind of don\u2019t ask. And with all the restaurants we\u2019ve been adding, well, then I just feel like, okay, well, I\u2019m burnt out being at home all the time, can\u2019t go out, because we\u2019re in a red zone here. So, I feel like\u2014but the moment he talked about it, he\u2019s like, okay, let\u2019s talk about the money, I get overwhelmed.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:14] And when I get overwhelmed, well, we kind of just shut that conversation out, because he doesn\u2019t want me to be overwhelmed. So, I know he means well, it\u2019s just I know though that I need to figure it out somewhere. It\u2019s pretty much the only thing that\u2019s a stress point in our relationship. That\u2019s really it. Like we are usually pretty good at communicating with one another, except money. That\u2019s the one thing. I know what he means, like I would love to pay the debt, I just personally don\u2019t know how to get there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:53] Well, let\u2019s make sure my instincts are correct. What are the actual numbers? 80,000 household income, would that be accurate?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:02] Sure.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:03] Ballpark. Great. And let\u2019s talk about any debt. How much?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:08] Well, like I said, we\u2019re selling a house right now. Once everything\u2019s done, we\u2019re going to be around $40,000 in debt left from credit cards and other things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:22] Tell me about this debt. How did you incur this 40K of debt?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:28] Well, part of it was when we repainted the Jeep and part of it was just overspending. I went from a higher paying job to a lower paying job, so we had to cover that. So, yeah, it was just basically overspending.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:45] I know it\u2019s overspending, but why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:50] Restaurants, going out like on trips with the kids, not like fancy trips, but going to see the family. It\u2019s minimum $500 per trip with the gas and food on the way there. And once you\u2019re there, you go out with the family and all. There are activities with the kids, things we needed in the house, things like that for us, for the kids, or the vehicles, or in general, that\u2019s what it is.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:25] Sometimes, it\u2019s emergency stuff. I find one big chunk was actually the Jeep. Of course, with the pandemic, we had decided to get the Jeep repaired, because it needed quite a bit of repair. And with the pandemic, the price kind of doubled by the time we got our quote to getting it done with the pricing of pieces went up double and all that. But it is the spending here and there, restaurants, and like Jacques said, we go visit the family in New Brunswick, because we live far from them. It\u2019s little things that kind of seem to creep up.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:12] This is a very common response that you\u2019ll hear from people whose finances are out of control. They will constantly describe little things that seem to come up. Why? Because in the small view that they have on their financial life, the 50 feet that they can see ahead as they\u2019re driving, there\u2019s always something. But if they zoom out, if they can get a bigger perspective, maybe see a mile down the road or a month forward, maybe six months forward, they start to get a better grasp on them, and they realize, oh, that surprise car repair that seemed to come out of nowhere, that seems to come around every three years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:51] Maybe we can put 20 bucks a month aside so that next time it comes out, we\u2019re ready for it. Again, people who are out of control with their money will constantly feel like they\u2019re taking one step forward and two steps back. That feeling is real. We can\u2019t dismiss it. What we can do is help them zoom up, look at the bigger picture, and switch to planning a little bit more proactively.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:18] Where do we want to go?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:20] I\u2019m not even sure myself, to be honest. I usually see couple of months ahead of me, and that\u2019s it. If you asked me where I want to be in a year, hopefully I\u2019ll be here, but might not, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:36] Yeah, living month to month is very difficult. That\u2019s all you can see. It\u2019s like driving in a snowstorm. It\u2019s very scary and difficult, and half of it is just, I hope there\u2019s nothing 50 feet ahead of me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:52] Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:53] Yeah. And that\u2019s the reason why we won\u2019t take care of it is I\u2019d like to have some protection in case there\u2019s something in front of us like that that we don\u2019t foresee, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:08] Yeah. And I also want to go beyond protection.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:13] Well, yeah, because we do have plans, like Jacques, we were talking about, where we\u2019d like to have a cottage in New Brunswick, so when we visit family, we could stay there instead of staying with family, because when we visit, we actually stay with family and it\u2019s getting annoying. And when we go there, like, well, let\u2019s get a cottage, and then we could rent it out when we\u2019re not there, because we\u2019d only visit a few weeks a year and the rest of the time, but it\u2019s to get the money to get to that, to make future income. And then, we\u2019re like, oh, we\u2019d like to travel, but we can never seem to put it in a concrete plan, like it\u2019s so vague.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:00] Yeah.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:02] Because usually, when it\u2019s\u2014<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:05] Why is that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:05] I don\u2019t know, because it\u2019s weird, because when we decide to like, okay, this is what we want, we go there, it actually happens like, snap, like really fast. When we actually decide that this is the way we want to go, it usually happens extremely fast.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:20] Well, that\u2019s the opposite of a plan, though. You\u2019re telling me when we decide to do something, we do it overnight. Okay. Great. That\u2019s good. You\u2019re very spontaneous, but a plan is the opposite. It takes years and years of slow, putting work, automatic transfers. It takes a longer vision than let\u2019s go buy a house or let\u2019s go on a trip.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:46] Yeah, that makes sense.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:50] You can hear me slowly starting to shift them away from a problem orientation to a solution orientation. I\u2019m taking it very, very slowly. I don\u2019t think they\u2019re fully bought in yet. You can kind of hear it by the, okay, but let\u2019s see where it ends up. Again, this often takes months and months of work, but I\u2019ve got a limited time, so I\u2019m going to try to do my best here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:13] Can you tell me when this debt will be paid off?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:19] At this rate, it would be 20, 30 years at the rate we\u2019re going right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:27] Okay. And how does that make you feel?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:30] I hate it. I hate it, because I know we\u2019re paying so much interest right now here and there, and it\u2019s all money that we could actually be paying off the debt, and putting aside, and saving to actually buy things not credit, or save so we can go to a trip, or save for a future cottage, or this, or that. Instead, I feel like we\u2019re throwing money out the window.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:58] Yeah, you are. Let me go to you, Jacques. When do you think you will pay this debt off?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:04] The way I calculated it, it will be 15 years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:08] Fifteen years. Okay. I am wondering, with 80K of income and your rent price looks pretty good, 1,500, that\u2019s good. It\u2019s not too much. A lot of people, they spend too much on their housing. You have affordable housing. That\u2019s good. Your car may be a little high, but eventually, that will get paid off. Where\u2019s the rest of the money going?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:35] Food.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:38] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:39] Food like groceries or food like eating out?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:42] Both. Groceries and eating out. Like it\u2019s funny, well, we were actually talking about that a little while back. We have issues buying ourselves a piece of clothes that might be 50 bucks, $20, $40, but we have no issues going out to the restaurant one night and pay $50 for takeout.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:09] Why is that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:12] Well, as you can see, I\u2019m big, so food is my addiction. And it\u2019s just my comfort, the way to comfort myself, and I\u2019ve been working on that. But it is a way of like, oh, well, it\u2019s okay to spend it on food, but not on other things, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:32] I appreciate the honesty on that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:33] [Indiscernible].<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:35] Yeah, that\u2019s a tough situation, but you have a very high level of self-awareness.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:41] I\u2019ve been doing a lot of work to get through that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:44] There is a relationship between food and money. When I first wrote my book, it was published in 2009, in the introduction, in the first chapter, I wrote about the similarities between food and money, how we often don\u2019t track what we eat, how we often don\u2019t track what we spend, how we often listen to fad diets, and how we often do the same thing with fad investments. When I wrote the 10-year update to my book, the 2019 Edition, an editor that was working on the book strongly encouraged me to remove that material.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:24] And she said that it was offensive to write about the connection between food and money. In the intervening 10 years between writing the first edition and the second edition, I had gone through a fitness journey of my own. I used to be very skinny. I would call myself a skinny Indian guy, and I really wish, looking back, that I had not said that, that I had not condemned myself to a self-fulfilling prophecy.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:53] In the intervening time, I learned how to change my body, and I learned that a lot of the things I believed about myself were not true, and I needed a lot of help. I had help of friends, and trainers, nutritionists, and eventually, I started to feel in control, that if I wanted to put on muscle, I could, if I wanted to cut fat, I could. And so, I told the editor no. In fact, I insist on keeping this material in the book, because more than ever, I see a connection between food and money, and I\u2019ve seen it with many of my own I Will Teach You To Be Rich readers.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:34] Many of them take control of their money, and they realize, oh, my gosh, if I could do this, the thing that I was never good at, what else can I do? It is very common that I Will Teach You To Be Rich readers later go on to change their fitness, their food, their nutrition, because many of the skills are transferable. So, I wanted to add that here, because it\u2019s really important.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:58] What Jennifer is doing, she\u2019s being so honest about being out of control with food, and I was candidly very surprised at how honest she was, how self-aware she was. You can see that there\u2019s a relationship between food and money. And so, I want to approach this with compassion, not judgment. And I just want to share that, oftentimes, when you\u2019re out of control in one part of life, it can feel like dominos. On the other hand, when you start to make steady progress, even a tiny bit of progress in one area, it can really cascade into other areas of life as well.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:38] For me right now is just taking that stress off. With the whole COVID stuff going, the pandemic, I\u2019m stuck at home as a stay-at-home mom, but I still can\u2019t go outside and socialize. And we just moved in this new city that I don\u2019t know absolutely no one. So, I\u2019ve been alone for months now. And when Jacques gets home, I know he\u2019s tired from work and he needs his own time, so I leave him alone. So, when it comes to making suppers, I feel so burnt out and I don\u2019t want to be around no one that it\u2019s easy access. It\u2019s the only way I can seem to have a certain sense of control and relief for a moment, I guess.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:24] Yes, that\u2019s it. You both understand your behavior pretty well. Understanding it doesn\u2019t change it, but I love the way that you are in touch with why you are doing things you do. Jennifer, you\u2019re nailing it, it\u2019s control, it\u2019s relief.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:44] I feel the numbers and I see like\u2014example, my credit card. I have one credit card, and it\u2019s maxed out at the moment, and I see the interest that I pay on it, and I\u2019m like, big words, I\u2019m just like, I\u2019m paying all this money for interest when I could be paying if we had it in one big loan with less interest, and pay more of it, so we can pay it faster or put it aside to build some savings, so we can buy that cottage that we want down the road. When I see the numbers, I get mad at myself that we\u2019re in that situation, so I just want to put the blinders off, because I\u2019m sick and tired of being mad. I\u2019m like-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:32] Well, you are sick and tired of being mad and you\u2019ve done everything except confront the problem.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:43] Pretty much.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:44] I hear, deep down, that both of you believe you\u2019ve already lost, you\u2019ve already lost the game of money. And so, why not just give up and order this food? We already got 40K a debt, an extra 40 bucks isn\u2019t going to change anything, and at least we\u2019ll feel good for a couple of hours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:11] That\u2019s it. For me, that\u2019s how I feel, yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:15] This is classic. In personal finance, you see this in two particular areas. This is the idea that if I\u2019m not perfect, I might as well throw it all away, forget it, none of it really matters. The first area is the area that Jennifer is talking about, which is people in debt. People in large amounts of debt, at a certain point, they go, what does it matter? Forty bucks? It\u2019s not going to change anything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:39] Might as well be happy. That\u2019s exactly what we heard Jennifer saying. Can you think of the second category? The second category of people who say, I have lost the game, so forget it. Well, the answer is, parents, I will frequently get DMs on Instagram or Twitter, my email. They say, how much should I save for my daughter? I said, how old are you? And what is your financial situation?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:11] They go, oh, I\u2019m 44, I don\u2019t really have anything saved up, but just had my daughter, really need to start saving for her. I go, your daughter has time, you do not. And what they are really saying is, I believe I\u2019ve lost the game of personal finance, but at least I can win it for my daughter. Jennifer and Jacques are smart. It\u2019s not that they don\u2019t know they should pay off their debt. There is something much deeper here, and finally, we are ready to start talking about it. Listen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:48] What is it, Jacques?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:57] Well, I think part of me wants to say yes. So, when she asks me for stuff, I want to say yes, right? She\u2019s my wife. I love her. I want to please her. So, part of it is that, right? Because I want to say yes, and that\u2019s why, sometimes, she\u2019ll ask me a couple of times, oh, can I get this, can I get that, stuff for her, I\u2019ll be, no, we don\u2019t have the money, no, we don\u2019t have the money, like, fine, get it, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:26] In your mind, is creating a plan, does that mean saying no?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:35] Well, we got to say no at some things, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:37] Well, you haven\u2019t yet.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:40] True.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:42] So, let me see if I can get this right. Tell me if I\u2019m off. I like to be a good husband, I don\u2019t like confrontation, I want to say yes, I want to please my wife. Deep down, I know there\u2019s a couple of things we probably shouldn\u2019t do. We probably shouldn\u2019t go here and maybe buy this, but sometimes, she asks me, and I don\u2019t like the confrontation. I know she\u2019s going to be upset, so I say yes. I know it\u2019s probably going to cause problems down the road, but I\u2019m just trying to get by day to day here.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:16] Yeah, pretty much on the dot there. From a young age, I was always told no, like when I grew up, my mom was a single mother. We didn\u2019t have much money, so any time I asked for something, it was no, because we just didn\u2019t have the money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:32] So, keep going. Trace it to yourself now. How do you think a child reacts when they hear, no, no, no, no, no?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:40] My needs are not important. What I want is not important, because I always got told no, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:46] Yeah. And then, what do you think is a possibility for how someone reacts to that as they get older?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:57] Well, just trying to please people, I guess that\u2019s-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:01] Why? What\u2019s the connection between being told no by everybody in the family, and then saying yes? What\u2019s that connection? How did it feel when they told you no?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:15] Well, it sucked, but eventually, you get used to it, right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:18] I mean, do you? Do you get used to it? Does it ever feel good when somebody tells you no?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:26] Well, no. But like I don\u2019t put myself in a situation where somebody will tell me no.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:32] Exactly. Eventually, you say, that is painful, so painful that I\u2019m just not even going to ask, because I don\u2019t want to hear no. And then, growing up, getting in relationships, this relationship, do you think it\u2019s possible that somebody who\u2019s been told no their whole life says, I felt so bad, I never want to feel like that or have anyone who I love feel like that, so I\u2019m never going to put them through what I went through?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:02] Yeah. That\u2019s the first time I thought about that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:09] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:14] I\u2019ve never connected the dots, right?\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:18] This is a really big realization. Oftentimes, we behave in ways that seem totally rational to ourselves. And if I asked you, why did you say yes to this? Well, it was a long night. Why did you say yes to that? Well, she asked me four times. And there\u2019s a reason, our minds are really good at creating reasons. I\u2019m actually not concerned about the math here. This isn\u2019t a math problem. I want to say it again, because it\u2019s really important for me to say that. This is not a math problem.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:51] It\u2019s to take charge and do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:55] Yeah, but if that were the case, you would have done it already, like motivational phrases only, they\u2019re like snacks, they only get you so far. So, what\u2019s the real problem?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:10] Not wanting to put myself in a situation where I have to say no.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:14] Right. That\u2019s a deep, deep issue. If you pull on that string, you\u2019re going to end up back being three years old or four years old.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:24] For me, it\u2019s more of an instant gratification. I want it now versus wait.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:34] Yeah. And do you see any similarities between the food, instant gratification, and the money?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:40] Oh, definitely. Pretty much everything is like that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:45] So, that\u2019s another deep-seated issue, and you mentioned you\u2019ve been getting help, I\u2019m really happy to hear that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:52] And that\u2019s the thing. Like for me, food is my gratification. Oh, you did well here, eat food, oh, you feel like shitty, here\u2019s some food. So, I\u2019ve been trying to do some work on that to try and heal those wounds to get over that, so I don\u2019t use food, because all that food, well, you need money to pay for that food.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:16] Yeah. I\u2019m really glad to hear that you are pursuing this, because it\u2019s challenging, it\u2019s not easy, and it takes a lot of deep inner work, ideally with some help as well. We\u2019ve made a couple of breakthroughs. I want to shift them now to what they are doing with their money. One of the observations I have about this couple is that there\u2019s no real purpose to their money. It\u2019s a lot of instant gratification, whatever\u2019s in front of them.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:47] I bet you, if I ask them, do you remember the last four meals you ordered as takeout? They wouldn\u2019t even remember. So, nothing memorable, nothing special, it\u2019s just whatever\u2019s in front of them. And I think there\u2019s a totally different way to think about money, a way where you can say, you know what, let\u2019s think about what meal would be amazing for us, or what trip, or what baby car seat, whatever, and let\u2019s save up. Let\u2019s get that. Let\u2019s dream big, and then go after it aggressively. So, I want to talk about what they want with their money. I\u2019m curious if they\u2019ve even thought about it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:24] One thing we have talked about, Jacques and I, was buying cottages or building little cottages in different areas, and then renting renting them out since we would have like, okay, we want to go there for a vacation, let\u2019s go two hours away from here, five hours from here, but at the same time, those houses would be working for us when we\u2019re not there so that we can\u2014I\u2019d like to build on that, build a business or something that builds an income that we don\u2019t have to go to a job 40 hours of a week.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:05] And then, what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:08] And then, it would allow us to be able to travel. We mentioned we wanted to travel, and we\u2019ve been looking into the schoolies, and RVs, and whatnot, and that\u2019s something that I\u2019d like us to do, especially with the kids being young.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:28] Nice. Okay. Love it. Beautiful. I love the vision. Jacques, what about you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:34] My vision of being wealthy is to have an RV and you go to these far out places, where there\u2019s nobody around, and just have a campfire, and the kids are there, they can see nature, and look at the stars, because there\u2019s no pollution, or lights, or anything like that. That\u2019s my vision.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:55] First of all, there are two places you\u2019re never going to find me. Number one is in a Home Depot. Okay. And number two is in an RV. Those two places are a special kind of hell for me. Alright. But remember, it\u2019s not my rich life, it\u2019s yours. Okay? Your rich life is yours. It\u2019s not your parents\u2019, not your friends\u2019, it\u2019s certainly not mine. So, while I don\u2019t understand the appeal of an RV, it has nothing to do with it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:25] In fact, I love hearing people\u2019s rich lives the more different they are from mine. I love it, because it tells me, they\u2019ve really thought about something that they want. And the more you dial in your rich life, your money dials, everything, the more incomprehensible it\u2019s going to be to everybody else. So, I\u2019m getting excited and I can hear it in their voice that they\u2019re getting excited as well.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:50] How old can kids be while you take them there and they still enjoy it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:56] I don\u2019t know. I would still enjoy it, so I\u2019m thinking-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:03] Well, what do you think? What is an ideal age to take your kids to something like that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:09] Well, I\u2019m thinking before they\u2019re 10 or 11.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:13] Teenagers.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:14] Yeah, because that\u2019s when they start having friends, and they\u2019re like, no, I\u2019d rather stay at home, and just be with my friends and all that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:20] That\u2019s right. So, really, now, we\u2019re starting to get a little bit more specific, which is in the next X years, we want to take our children on some kind of outdoors RV adventure. How many years?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:41] Four.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:41] I would say for me, with more like two.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:44] Okay. So, soon. Well, look, we\u2019re getting somewhere, whether it\u2019s two or four. It\u2019s not 20.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:52] No.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:53] No.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:53] Okay. So, guess what? Now, we have a real reason to start changing our finances. You know what, you had no reason before. Of course, you\u2019re going to order out, because what else are we going to do, pay off debt? That sounds boring. It sucks.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:14] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:15] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:15] But listen to what I heard. I just have to repeat this back to you, because it was so vivid. I heard no light pollution. I heard outdoors. Look at the stars. RV. Traveling with the kids. These are words that are very emotional. That is beautiful. And I would love for both of you to actually expand on it outside of this call. I would love for you to have a conversation where you say, what would it look like if this were magical? How does this feel, Jacques, just to start thinking about this trip? How does it feel to you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:03] Well, it feels pretty good. It\u2019s a direction, right? I\u2019m realizing now, that\u2019s what it was, like I had no goals or anything like that, nothing to shoot for. And it makes sense that, what else is there to do? Get some food or, oh, we want to do that this weekend, let\u2019s go do it, you need to buy that, let\u2019s buy that. Now, I\u2019d rather go do the trip than eat out tomorrow.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:32] Let\u2019s say that it\u2019s 5%, right now, you would be paying $400 a month. And like I told you, it would take you 11 years to pay that off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:43] Okay.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:44] Now, let me ask you a question, what if you increase that to 600 a month? How long do you think it would take you to pay it off?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:53] Ten. Seven years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:57] Seven, yeah,<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:58] 6.5 years, just from $200 a month extra.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:04] Geez.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:05] Do you think you could find $200 a month extra?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:10] I\u2019m sure you can figure something out.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:12] 100%. When you go through your numbers, you\u2019re going to realize, you\u2019re sitting on way more than you think. Okay. And if you have to get creative to do it, you\u2019re going to get creative. It\u2019s either going to be 10 years or three years, what are we going to do? And truthfully, I hope you both see the costs of, what does it cost you to be treading water for so long? You start to actually normalize it, like, oh, it\u2019s normal to be sinking. It sucks.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:42] Well, that\u2019s all I\u2019ve seen all my life is my parents being there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:46] I really love what Jennifer just said, just offhandedly. She opens up the floodgates. That\u2019s what we knew. That\u2019s what I\u2019ve seen all my life with my parents. Think about the implications of just that one sentence. That\u2019s what she modeled forever. And therefore, you normalize it. In fact, when you think of money, you think of problems, pain. And if you do that for enough time, you can\u2019t even imagine that money can be joyful, that it can be a source of opportunity instead of one of problems.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:26] Now, this presents some real identity challenges as you start to shift from paying off your debt. I often find that people who are in a severe amount of debt or have been there for a long time, they can\u2019t even envision what it feels like to be debt-free, much less to actually have money in their savings account. And as they go towards this debt-free status, they start to ask themselves lots of uncomfortable questions. Oh, my God, what\u2019s it going to be like?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:55] What if I told myself that being debt-free would make me happy, and I finally pay off all my debt, and I\u2019m not happy? And ultimately, am I worth it? These are really tough identity questions that many of you will face, but I am confident you can absolutely work through these, just want to flag it for you that as you change your identity with money, you will have to confront your own personal identity. So I want to point out that based on your numbers, you both could do that and if you were to contribute instead 800 a month, you pay that off in 4.75 years.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jacques:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:38] That\u2019d be cool.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:40] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:41] Jennifer, what is that look on your face?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:44] I wanted to say another swear word.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:48] Well, I encourage swearing. There was something that really puzzled me in this conversation, when I asked them, what do you want to do with your money? They had this whole thing about want to buy cottages,\u00a0 and eventually use that money to be able to get an RV and sit under the stars. It was beautifully described. But then, when I asked him, when do you want to do it? They got very fuzzy. Did you catch that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:22] I don\u2019t know, first, we need to get the first down payment. We can\u2019t seem to save any money. And then, I asked him, how old do you want your kids to be? Well, probably before they\u2019re teenagers, because they\u2019ll still like us. Suddenly, you realize that this isn\u2019t a plan, it\u2019s just a wish. I don\u2019t want you to just wish for things to do with your money. I want you to make a plan. And so, for this couple, my dream would be that we just start by saying, What is it you actually want?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:53] I want to take my kids, I want to get an RV, and I want to sit under the stars with them, and create some memories. Love it. Beautiful. Okay. How can we do that quickly? Well, maybe we can start aggressively paying off our debt. Maybe we can put 100 bucks a month aside for this trip. Maybe we don\u2019t have to buy four cottages, and then buy an RV. Could we just rent an RV? And what if we don\u2019t have to take a month off?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:21] What if we just go for two weeks? Suddenly, you shaved off 15 or 20 years towards your rich life? Well, you can do it in 18 months. This is my wish for you. My wish is that you look creatively at what your rich life is, that you get super detailed about it, I want to know, what are you going to be eating underneath the stars? Tell me about that. And then, you go from a wish to a plan. How can we do that? How can we do it bigger?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:51] How can we do it faster? And suddenly, you start to go from problem orientation to solution orientation. You are between four to six years away from paying off this debt. My guess is if you made this a true priority like number one, you could pay it off in less than four years, three or three-and-a-half years. That would be hard. You\u2019d have to change everything. You\u2019d have to do a lot of inner work. That may be even too hard, but four to six years, you could comfortably pay it off.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Jennifer:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:31] Well, if we got rid of the car and you use the Jeep to go to work, you\u2019d still burn more gas than the car, but it\u2019ll be about $400 we could actually chuck there.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:40:47] There it is. You can hear Jennifer getting engaged, putting some skin in the game, becoming creative about how they can work towards their rich life. This is a beautiful moment. Here\u2019s what you\u2019ll find next week on the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Paula:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:15] I felt it like a joke saying, I will have to pay everything for you. I mean, my mind was that, I can pay for myself. Like if you don\u2019t want to support me, like I can support myself.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Nicolas:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:41:26] When I questioned her about what we\u2019re leaving on the table as a family and what that implies for us, her response was, well, I have my own savings and I can kind of do whatever I want.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>&nbsp; Jacques and Jennifer are stuck in a money rut. They are trapped by their $40,000 debt. Jennifer feels overwhelmed with money talk, and Jaques doesn\u2019t want to say no to his wife. When he comes home from work, they\u2019re both tired, so they order takeout, overspend\u2026and repeat the cycle. This isn\u2019t a math problem. [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119161","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119161","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119161"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119161\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119161"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119161"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}