{"id":119165,"date":"2021-10-19T17:12:40","date_gmt":"2021-10-19T21:12:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/?p=119165"},"modified":"2025-03-31T17:35:39","modified_gmt":"2025-03-31T21:35:39","slug":"014-mary-chuck","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/014-mary-chuck\/","title":{"rendered":"Episode 14. \u201cI hide my spending from my husband\u201d"},"content":{"rendered":"<p><iframe style=\"border-radius: 12px;\" src=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/embed\/episode\/6AUgVfFlspwThxAbgwPFFU?utm_source=generator\" width=\"100%\" height=\"352\" frameborder=\"0\" allowfullscreen=\"allowfullscreen\"><\/iframe><\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Meet Chuck and Mary. With a household income of $450,000 a year, they\u2019re wealthy, but they\u2019re not living A Rich Life. Mary spends money\u2013in secret \u2014 and feels judged when she makes \u201cfrivolous\u201d designer bag purchases.\u00a0 Meanwhile, Chuck feels he can\u2019t invest in a personal trainer.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Their backstory is revealing.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Mary grew up in a large family in Argentina where a bottle of Coca-Cola was an indulgence. When she made it to the States, she never wanted to feel deprived again.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">Suddenly, her spending takes on a new dimension. To her, a Chanel bag is more than just a bag.<\/p>\n<p aria-level=\"4\">They have the money, yet they lack a shared plan. To create a Rich Life, they\u2019ll have to dig into each other\u2019s money clues.<\/p>\n<h2 aria-level=\"2\"><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Tools mentioned in this episode<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;134245418&quot;:true,&quot;134245529&quot;:true,&quot;201341983&quot;:0,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:0,&quot;335559737&quot;:450,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0,&quot;335559740&quot;:768}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/l-money-made-easy\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Money Made Easy Mini Course<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/landing-conscious-spending\/\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Conscious Spending Plan<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<h2><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Transcript<\/span><\/b><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:0,&quot;335559739&quot;:0}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/h2>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/Transcript-IWT-14.-Chuck-Mary.pdf\"><span data-contrast=\"none\">Download PDF of the transcript here.<\/span><\/a><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:05] I felt dumb, sometimes wanting a Chanel purse as an asset, when he\u2019s like, that\u2019s not important, we can put that money in investment. I\u2019m like, I know that, but I still love the purse.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:20] If we allocate 10 grand a year for you to spend on whatever you want, I have no cares in the world of what you\u2019re spending money on, it\u2019s when you go to 15,000-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:32] Our seven-year-old, he knows, and he has told me, Mommy, don\u2019t blow all our money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:38] I\u2019m frustrated I can\u2019t do more for myself. I feel like I\u2019m working hard and doing a lot to provide for the family, yet I come less than it, I would like to do more for myself.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:00:49] There\u2019s only so much that people can put up with. I mean, it could be years, but it all eventually like crumbled if we don\u2019t have the same vision and the same plan, because that happened to my parents. They split up in their 60s.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:09] I\u2019m Ramit Sethi, and this is I Will Teach You To Be Rich, the podcast. In this episode, I\u2019m speaking to Chuck and Mary. Mary\u2019s 37 years old, and she\u2019s originally from Argentina. She moved to Los Angeles with Chuck, who\u2019s 38, and she still feels guilty that she doesn\u2019t live close to her family anymore. Their issue is spending. Mary loves to spend a lot on high-end luxuries like Chanel bags, and Chuck is starting to feel like he can\u2019t spend any of his money on the things he likes. By the way, his annual income is $450,000 a year. And there\u2019s another problem, Mary has started hiding her spending from Chuck.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:01:55] I definitely hid the fact that I did a cold sculpting treatment and some other skin treatment in my stomach, because I had three kids and I was very self-conscious about it, so I\u2019ve hidden that for a long time. I ended up telling him, but it was in a very casual way like, yeah, I did this, they gave me payments, which they\u2019re going to be for the rest of my life, and it\u2019s not a big deal. But the truth is, I actually hid it for a while from him, and I was scared to tell him, because I didn\u2019t want him to judge me for it or get disappointed at me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:02:37] There have been a number of situations like that. I wish there weren\u2019t limits and wished to provide for the family, to not have any restrictions in terms of what she could do. But also, it feels challenging, that she has to hide it, and we can\u2019t have the conversation about it, or by the time we have the conversation, then it\u2019s a more tense place to have it, because one of us feels like the other person did something wrong.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:03] How much did this CoolSculpting cost?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:06] It was $7,000.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:08] Okay. Now, is that a little or a lot based on your income?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:15] I mean, it\u2019s a lot. I mean, our income is really good, but we also have a lot of luxuries that we choose to have, like having a full-time housekeeper. So, that obviously doesn\u2019t leave a lot of room for discretionary spending. Because we need it at the moment, I just think I can figure it out later. I\u2019m like, I\u2019ll figure it out later, I\u2019ll pay for it, I don\u2019t know, with a gift money or something.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:03:39] But it was definitely something that I should have talked about, because it was a commitment and I still have to pay for it, even though it was in 10,000 payments. My whole life, all I wanted was things, as a kid, I lacked a lot of things. And there was so much deprivation that once I got a glimpse of like the good life here in America, Josh and I are not wealthy, but he grew up in a family that is wealthy, and that gave me access to a bunch of things that I didn\u2019t know that they were possible.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:18] Like what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:19] Like buying a designer dress for my wedding. Like I don\u2019t know, that was, it\u2019s truly like princess moment for me. And this was early on in our relationship. Once I discovered that good life, I was like, I want it all. I never want to feel deprived again.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:41] Because what?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:04:42] Because that makes me sad, and it makes me feel deprived, and it brings me back to the years when my mom would say like, we can\u2019t have this, because we don\u2019t have money and there\u2019s not enough, there\u2019s not enough, I can\u2019t buy you these, I can\u2019t buy you that, I can\u2019t give you what you want, because it\u2019s expensive. We\u2019re too many. That was another script. Like we\u2019re too many, can\u2019t afford that you can\u2019t have a Sweet 16 birthday party, because you have four sisters, I can\u2019t.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:13] So, it was all like, I can\u2019t, I can\u2019t, I can never have. And there was a lot of attachment to the material, too, because of course, once you lose it or you ruin it, there\u2019s no more money for replacing it or buying more. So, when I had the chance here in the US, especially in such an like easy economy, I would say, and access to everything, I went bananas. We grew up in a very unsafe social situation in my country.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:05:46] There was a lot of crime going on and there was a lot of like robberies around my neighborhood in my whole childhood, to the point that as an adult, I still carry a lot of like the fears and the phobias, or I have like this fear that something\u2019s going to happen to me. Still, to the day, like it\u2019s something that I battle with, and that\u2019s why I go to therapy and do other things just to like lose sort of like that fear for like getting hurt or something bad happening to me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:20] I can sense that burden that you are clearly still carrying today. I appreciate that you are so open about it, because it can\u2019t be easy. And I can also say that people who grew up in the US, in certain parts, they might have a sense of what you went through, but in most parts of the US, we cannot fathom, our currency might be totally devalued tomorrow. It\u2019s just not something that we grew up with. So, I appreciate you being so open about that.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:06:48] Try to put yourself in her shoes. Think about what it must have been like to grow up in a country where you had no idea what would happen tomorrow. Most of us in the US simply cannot fathom it. When we go to the store, we know that one dollar is one dollar. We know there\u2019s going to be eggs in the grocery store and there\u2019s going to be gas at the gas stations. We cannot imagine what it\u2019s like to think about our currency being devalued overnight.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:14] Sometimes, I wish I could take my loudmouth friends to India, and let them see what poverty and opportunity there looks like. I had one friend who said to me, well, if I could make it here, I could make it there. And I stopped him right away. I said, let me explain something to you, in my family\u2019s house in India, there\u2019s a maid. Her mother was a maid. Her mother\u2019s mother was a maid. And if she\u2019s lucky, her daughter will work in technical support. My friend\u2019s response?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:07:45] Well, if one in a billion could do it, I could do it. This Western-centric way of thinking is pervasive, especially among people who are from small towns and haven\u2019t traveled much or been exposed to other cultures. For them, the world is easier to navigate if it\u2019s black or white. Successful people work hard, therefore poor people must not work hard. Okay. So, listening to her describe her upbringing, it might be tempting for us to roll our eyes, talk about how irresponsible she\u2019s being with spending and buying all these things, but we also have to take into account where she came from and where she is now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:28] 450 sounds like a lot, and I don\u2019t feel like we have that much for some reason. I guess like between schools and the housekeeper, like it doesn\u2019t feel like it leaves a lot of room for things.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:45] You did, earlier, say, we are not wealthy. Do you remember saying that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:50] Right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:51] Now, when you hear that number, would you consider yourselves wealthy?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:08:54] I definitely will, it sounds like a lot of money. It sounds like somebody that\u2019s doing very well in life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:01] Why don\u2019t we change that phrasing a little bit?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:03] It is a lot of money, actually. Yeah, it\u2019s just it doesn\u2019t sound like it, it is a lot of money, especially for LA, I think it\u2019s a good living.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:15] Okay. Rich, give that to me in a full sentence. What is it? I want to hear the whole thing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:23] Earning 450,000 dollars a year, it is a lot of money, and it is a salary of someone that lives very well, like that\u2019s a good income.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:37] Wow. How did that feel to say?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:41] It felt good.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:42] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:43] Like makes sense.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:44] But do you believe it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:09:44] I have a hard time doing so, I don\u2019t know why, because I guess like life in LA and with kids, it\u2019s so expensive that it doesn\u2019t seem like we\u2019re living this lavish, fabulous life of the rich and famous. But it is actually, because when we were young and we talked about how much we would like to make, this was like a super, like crazy goal.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:17] This is classic. I literally have people who say to me, well, it\u2019s not like we\u2019re rich or anything, we\u2019re what I would call well-off. I\u2019m like, you have a fucking net worth of $32 million, you\u2019re rich. I\u2019m going to spend a second here, because this is an important point. It\u2019s not just that this is eternally annoying to me, it\u2019s also that part of living a rich life is being honest, being honest with others and being honest with yourself.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:10:44] If you earn $450,000 a year, you are financially rich, you\u2019re wealthy. Now, we can argue over definitions and lifestyles, but by any calculation of median income, you are wealthy. Now, are you a 100 millionaire-wealthy, billionaire-wealthy? No, but you\u2019re wealthy nonetheless. It\u2019s important for you to be honest with yourself, because it forces you to take agency for your decisions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:12] It\u2019s not that you\u2019re just a middling upper middle class person who\u2019s struggling to save more, no, you chose to hire a chef, you chose to send kids to this school, to buy Chanel bags, own it. I want you to take ownership of your decisions. And once you\u2019re honest with yourself, then you finally earn the right to change. But without that honesty, you\u2019ve created this fake scarcity in your mind, oh, boo-hoo, we don\u2019t really have a lot.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:11:44] I mean, sure, we do fine, but it\u2019s not like we\u2019re rich. I would rather you say we do very well, and we\u2019re fortunate, here\u2019s what I choose to spend my money on, and here\u2019s what I don\u2019t spend my money on. Ramit, the reason I\u2019m talking to you is that I don\u2019t think my spending is aligned with my values, and I want your help to change that, or Ramit, we make $450,000 a year, I\u2019m frustrated that we can\u2019t buy this one thing, I really want to do it, why can\u2019t we do it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:14] Great. I love the honesty. I might tell you, hey, you actually need to earn more in order to do that, or you need to spend less on something, but at least we can have an honest conversation. Okay. So, no matter what, please stop the bullshit about making $450,000 in your 30s and not being wealthy. When you were a kid, how much did you want to make?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:36] No. And when we were talking about living in LA, about living in New York, that we considered once, he\u2019s like, I need to make at least half a million a year, and this was like when we were like young and not really married, so it\u2019s pretty crazy that we reached almost that point.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:12:54] We haven\u2019t really traveled. We cut back on a lot of restaurant, and then cut back on things, discretionary items that I would like, personal training, good gym memberships. And I\u2019d find ways to find the same enjoyment in food and self-care in more affordable ways. And I also have cut back in terms of where I\u2019d want to invest and put money to work in other places. And so, it\u2019s not deprived in the sense of living in a Buddhist monastery, but we\u2019re still living a good quality of life, but I still hold back on different things that I\u2019d like to do a bit more of.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:34] What do you feel when you hear that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:37] No. I mean, it makes me sad, but\u2014it makes me sad, because I don\u2019t want him to feel deprived, because he also is the one like working super hard for that money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:48] How much money are you going to have to make in order for you to be able to get even one personal training session per week?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:56] I don\u2019t know. Maybe 50% more right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:13:59] So, you\u2019re going to have to make $750,000 for you to spend one hundred dollars a week on personal trainer?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:06] Maybe. The reality is we should already be able to do that if that\u2019s something that I prioritize, and value, and want to make happen.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:13] I agree. What I\u2019m really trying to point out here is in the current state you\u2019re going in, you\u2019re never going to get those training sessions.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:23] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:24] Never. It\u2019s not about the amount of money, because you make a lot of money. And also, when I say personal training, I\u2019m not necessarily saying you\u2019re getting five training sessions a week, that\u2019s expensive, but even one, which could be meaningful to you. The fact that what you just said is, I\u2019m going to have to make three quarters of a million dollars to spend $100 a week on something that\u2019s important to me and the health for me and my family, that doesn\u2019t seem right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:55] No, you\u2019re right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:14:57] So, why don\u2019t you tell Mary that? And I don\u2019t want you to minimize? I want you to tell her exactly how you feel right now.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:06] Yeah. The way I feel is I\u2019m frustrated I can\u2019t do more for myself. I feel like I\u2019m working hard and doing a lot to provide for the family, yet I come last in it. I would like to do more for myself.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:19] I hear you. I hear you. And you should, I think you should do more for yourself, because I would like to see you doing more for yourself, because that would inspire me to probably pull back a little bit, and also like see you happier, and enjoying your life and your hard work a little more.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:15:40] I noticed this role of the pursuer and pursued, you\u2019re coming and saying, hey, what\u2019s up with the spending? And you\u2019re feeling judged, you\u2019re feeling guilty, uh-oh, I may have overspent again, retreat, Josh pursues a little more, and then it all kind of falls apart, because you\u2019re both dancing with each other, but you already know where the dance is going to go. You didn\u2019t follow through.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:09] She spent more than we said. And worst of all, there\u2019s no real consequences. What\u2019s the effect of any of this? And the truth is nothing, really. You\u2019re living a pretty good life. You have a live-in housekeeper. If you want to get certain things, you get it. So, really, you both haven\u2019t yet uncovered a motivation strong enough to get you to want to change. Is there one?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:42] I don\u2019t know, actually.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:16:43] There\u2019s so much more that we could do. And so, it\u2019s about this future state that doesn\u2019t exist, and maybe there\u2019s not enough color or shared vision for what that looks like. I want to accumulate the ability today over time to be able to do more in the future, because I don\u2019t know all the things that we want to do, but I know one, at any moment, our life could get disrupted, something could happen with the business, and I want to be prepared in the worst case scenario that if something does happen, we can continue at least sustaining our life until things could get back on track.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:19] Both of us feel stress, because there\u2019s some future state. It may be owning more purses, or having more things that are important to her. And for me, it\u2019s about protecting this ability and flexibility to do things in the future, to have that stability, and have that abundance, and have those other things. And we might not have alignment around what that looks like from each other\u2019s point of views.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:17:45] Oh, I love this. Did you catch what just happened? I asked what would get them to change, and he gave me this long, rambling answer. He doesn\u2019t even remember the question, he was just talking stream of consciousness. How do you think she responded to that?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:03] The question I asked was, is there a motivation that would get you to change, and you just gave that answer, what did you hear?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:11] I heard nothing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:13] Correct.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:13] There\u2019s nothing there that motivates me to change.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:18] Why?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:21] I think because I haven\u2019t been concrete enough in outlining things that are motivating to her.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:27] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:28] Or, yourself, you\u2019re speaking academics. Oh, I want to be able to potentially invest one day in something. What I really was hoping you would say is I want to get a personal trainer four times a week. That is concrete. I wish you would say, you know what, I want to take all of us on a trip to this place and this hotel. I want to take all the kids on a kite surfing expedition. If you heard something like that, what would you think?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:18:55] That sounds awesome, let\u2019s get to it, but like I literally hear nothing. It\u2019s always the same answer, which I think is very valuable from a business point of view, but from a personal point of view, it really doesn\u2019t speak to me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:13] This is one of the most common things that I see from men. They go into long monologue land, and when I asked them, hey, did you see your wife\u2019s face while you were talking? They look at me completely bewildered, no, what do you mean? I\u2019ll say, well, what do you think she thought of when you were giving me that answer? And they have no idea. In psychology, there\u2019s a concept called social monitoring.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:19:38] I\u2019ll give you the simple version of it. If you\u2019re a high social monitor, you\u2019re aware of the social context around you. You\u2019re likely to adapt to it. If you\u2019re a low social monitor, you\u2019re not really aware and you\u2019re not going to change your approach. You\u2019re basically going to be the same in every situation, whether you\u2019re at the orchestra or a club in the meatpacking. The vast majority of low social monitors that I meet are men.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:04] So, what\u2019s the lesson here? Don\u2019t do that. In your head, you sound logical and smooth. If you were to take one second during the middle of your long monologue and look up at your partner, you might realize they are not listening to you at all. They\u2019re totally disconnected. Now, I would love to spend more time on fine-tuning these social skills. If you want to do that, get my How to Talk to Anybody program from my products page.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:20:32] Whenever he gets himself something, even though I know that we\u2019re over budget, because of me, I\u2019m actually really happy, because I see him like indulging, and enjoying, and taking care of himself, even if it\u2019s like, I need new shorts. And then, he got $600 of shorts, and I was like, oh, that\u2019s a little money, but I\u2019m so happy for you, because truthfully, you never do that for yourself and I\u2019d like to see you enjoying the things I enjoy by more thinking about how we can make our life more enjoyable.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:05] Okay. So, we\u2019re going to get to this right now. Let\u2019s actually do it. So, what I would like to ask both of you is to really think about the next five years. What are the bucket list items, the things that would be incredibly meaningful to you to achieve? And I\u2019m talking specifics.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:21:34] So, within the next five years, in order for us to be living a rich life, I think I would love to go to Big Sur for every anniversary, and stay at the Post Ranch Inn, which is the most incredible place that I\u2019ve been, and just spend a few days there, and enjoy, and not worry about cutting back on alcohol, because the bill is going to go up. Also, I would like to treat myself to a Chanel bag every year, which they cost around five to seven grand each. I would like to get a bigger house and decorate it as I want it. I would like to go to Europe. I would like to go to Greece and the south of Italy. And I would like to go to the south of France. I don\u2019t know much about hotels there, but I probably would like to stay at a really nice one and travel business class for everything.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:22:43] I think there\u2019s a lot of overlap in the things that I wrote down. The one question I have is those are the things that matter most, are you willing to make sacrifices in the day-to-day, week-to-week, month-to-month life in order to achieve those things?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:00] Yeah, if there\u2019s a plan, if there is a deadline, for sure. And if there\u2019s also, I think, no judgment on the other end, just because mostly, I never wanted to say the things that they were important to me, because you don\u2019t think that they are to you, then they don\u2019t deserve to be important at all. They felt dumb, sometimes, wanting a Chanel purse as an asset when he\u2019s like, that\u2019s not important, we can put that money in investment. I\u2019m like, I know that, but I still love the purse.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:23:43] What can I do differently in order for you not to feel judged? Because truthfully, if we allocate, whatever, 10 grand a year for you to spend on whatever you want, I have no cares in the world of what you\u2019re spending money on. It\u2019s when you go to 15,000 that there\u2019s judgment around, well, I thought you were going to be able to get what you want with this that we talked about, and the judgment is more about going above and beyond than what you\u2019re doing kind of with that spend.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:24:16] I\u2019ve heard you say multiple times, you feel judged. I hear it. And so, we\u2019ve kind of narrowed it down to this one simple, beautiful example of a Chanel bag. What I might suggest to you is not telling what actually makes you anxious, and when you\u2019re not anxious, and you\u2019re not judging here, but you are judging if it gets above a certain amount, what if instead you simply said, you know what, I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve ever really asked you why you love Chanel bags. What does it mean to you to be able to get one every single year? Can you tell me? I\u2019d love to know, because I want to understand that. If you ask that, how do you think Mary would react?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:05] She would love to tell me.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:07] Well, let\u2019s do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:08] So, what is it about having a Chanel bag that so motivating and that you\u2019re so interested in?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:25:15] Because I think it\u2019s the material icon for, I made it, for, I achieved the rich life. It\u2019s such a precious thing in the fashion world, but also like in the world in general, like I feel like as a woman that likes clothes and fashion, having multiple Chanel purse basically is the realization of like the rich woman that I always wanted to be, like the Sex and the City kind of like vision of like me wearing designer clothes, and lunching, and having fun with friends. That was like the fantasy that I built up in my head growing up, and thinking like that\u2019s what I want to be, because I don\u2019t want to like lack things anymore, and I want to be able to treat myself whenever I want. So, for me, it\u2019s like, yeah, it\u2019s like the birth of the rich life that I wanted.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:27] What did you hear just now?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:29] So, what I heard is it\u2019s a token, or symbol of affluence, or respect, or prosperity that Mary could prove to herself that she\u2019s made it out of the past that she came from, and get recognition for others that she\u2019s accepted on a different level, that maybe she feel wouldn\u2019t natively feel comfortable with.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:26:56] Which is funny, when I was little, my parents, they would have months that they were really bad, and that we were having like tea and crackers for dinner, and then month that they were better. So, when my mom would come back from the grocery store with prosciutto and a bottle of Coca-Cola, that meant that that month was like booming. It was like my dad was balling, so this would be basically the translation of that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:28] Yeah. The handbag goes way deeper than a bag. It\u2019s not about function. It\u2019s not frivolous. It represents something much, much deeper to her. I just love hearing people talk about what they want to spend money on. I love it. I love that it\u2019s conscious. I love that it\u2019s so focused. I love that it\u2019s a beautiful thing that you\u2019ve thought about is clearly emotionally connected for you.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:27:58] And the prosciutto example is such a beautiful capstone to that. It is your grown-up equivalent of getting prosciutto and coke. So, I hear that and I love it. I don\u2019t think it\u2019s shallow at all. My suggestion is that you could ask 30 more questions about a Chanel bag, and she would sit here for the next 15 hours and happily tell you every last detail about every Chanel bag she\u2019s ever looked at. Am I right?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:29] You are absolutely right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:31] Exactly.\u00a0<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:32] I just don\u2019t think that he cares about it-<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:28:35] But that\u2019s what we\u2019re talking about, because you\u2019ve never given him a reason to understand why this is important. Before, it was just a bag, and actually kind of thought of as a frivolous symbol, but what we\u2019re seeing is that it\u2019s way deeper than that. It\u2019s way deeper. So we could sit, and you could learn about these bags, and you could ask her a bunch of questions, both about the bags, but also, what does it mean to you?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:00] Well, tell me about this prosciutto thing. So, how often would they come home with it? And then, what happened? And would everybody gather around the table? What was that like? And then, what? You took one coke and shared it with all the different glasses. Oh, my god. That\u2019s crazy. What happened then? What you\u2019re starting to get to with these questions is the idea that this bag is not just a bag, it\u2019s really a symbol, as you put it, a token.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:25] And so, suddenly, when you go together to get that bag once a year, maybe you make it a whole thing. Let\u2019s go there, and afterwards, we\u2019re going to take that bag in the box, and we\u2019re going to go to the prosciutto place, and we\u2019re going to eat prosciutto, coke, and enjoy the Chanel bag. It becomes a whole event. If you did that once a year, what do you think would happen in your relationship?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:52] I think Mary would feel less judged, more valued, and more motivated to stay on track.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:29:58] I think so, too. And now, I want to hear from you. What did you write down for your rich life in the next five years?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:05] So, travel was on mine, too. We just did a family trip to Yosemite, rented this amazing house, and the kids, especially after being stuck inside, were able to just get dirty, get wet, explore, and we had the best time. I would love if we could do two luxury trips like that, one with the family and one as a couple, where we don\u2019t have to be constrained around where we go. We could travel to Montana, or Hawaii, or go to Europe.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:31] For me, that\u2019s the best use of money, are things that create memories, and create connection, and create those moments, where we can connect that we normally can\u2019t in each other\u2019s life. Two is right now, I hate that we feel stressed to have to pay for private school tuition for the kids. I would love for that not to be a worry. For middle school, high school, I want the kids to be able to go to whatever school they want to without money being a gating factor.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:30:58] Three is I would love at least twice a week to have tennis lessons, personal training, some sport or activity that feels selfish that I can do for myself that makes me feel good. And lastly, I\u2019ll set something around the house. I would love to be able to add a bedroom, redo the yard, just kind of take our living to the next level, whether it\u2019s moving into a new house or doing something with ours.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:23] Great. Thank you very much. That sounds amazing. What did you feel hearing those things?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:31:32] That makes me happy when he thinks about himself and about his own personal needs. Like I love that he wants the kids to have good education, because we all want that. But I like to hear when he\u2019s like, I want a personal trainer or I want to be able to do tennis classes, because it\u2019s at the end of the road. I like to hear that he wants to indulge or enjoy himself selfishly, because I am like that, and I have a lot of guilt towards thinking that way, that things that are just for me are selfish, or I have to hide it because I feel guilt. Like it\u2019s actually really nice to hear him say in that.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:32:23] You hear that phrase, guilt, I have a lot of guilt, I\u2019m going to reframe that for them. I don\u2019t feel guilty because there are limits, I love limits with my money. Let me show you why. I am glad you both have limits. Thank God that there are limits. I think life is a lot more fun with limits. It gives me something to look forward to. And that is a total reframe on your money, not only for yourself, but for your kids. What kind of example do you think that they are learning by seeing parents who pull away from each other, and hide money, and spending, and then it blows up, and they don\u2019t commit to fix it?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:13] Oh, my kids know.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:14] That\u2019s terrible.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:15] My kids know. It\u2019s really terrible. My kids, they\u2019re like, can we buy this? But we\u2019re not going to tell Poppy, and I\u2019m like, no, we shouldn\u2019t lie to him.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:25] You shouldn\u2019t lie to him, but hold on, don\u2019t mention that CoolSculpting thing.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:29] I know. It\u2019s like it\u2019s one of those things like, do what I say, but not what I do.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:37] So, your kids are smart and they\u2019re already old enough to have already picked up on this.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:44] Yeah, my older kid for sure, our seven-year-old, he knows, and he has told me, Mommy, don\u2019t blow all our money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:53] I love that we completely bury this until the end.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:57] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:33:57] There are real consequences for not committing to a plan that both of you put together and stick with it. Your seven-year-old is already picking up on this. And you both know as parents, once the kid picks up on something and starts doing it, it is 100 times harder to reverse that behavior and to get it right in the first place.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:19] For sure.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:20] Right.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:20] What are the consequences if we don\u2019t live a rich life? So, in your case, the consequences are actually not that bad on the surface, oh, we can\u2019t get an extra floor in our house, and you can\u2019t get this Chanel bag and stay at this beautiful hotel. Oh, boo-hoo. But when you dig a little deeper, there are some serious consequences. What are they?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:34:44] Well, definitely, what we\u2019re modeling to our kids, and I don\u2019t want to set them for failure, because this is how we teach them, by modeling. It\u2019s like there\u2019s so much I can tell them, but if I don\u2019t do it, they will never do it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:00] Kind of like when you grew up and you heard things around you like, there\u2019s too many, and we don\u2019t have enough. And now, many years later, are you still working through those issues?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:13] I mean, I\u2019m 38 years old and I still can\u2019t get over it.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:18] Yeah. So, that\u2019s good. What other consequences are there if you don\u2019t live your rich life?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Chuck:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:23] I mean, there\u2019s a lack of trust, and feeling of support, and commitment in the relationship, and that can\u2019t be good for the long-term health of a relationship.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:34] Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Mary:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:35:35] No, because there\u2019s only so much that people can put up with. I mean, it could be years, but it all eventually like crumbles if we don\u2019t have like the same vision and the same plan, because that happened to my parents, because my mom was an ambitious woman. She was the daughter of someone who had money and she sort of like expected the same from my dad, who came from a more humble upbringing, and more like, I just want a 9:00 to 5:00 job and be happy about it. And that over years and years of struggling in their marriage, and with the family, and everything, each ended up, they split up in their 60s.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:36:28] As I always say, the real issues often come out in the last five minutes. It is amazing to me that people will see something broken in their lives, like an overbearing parent or a lazy spouse, and then they will recreate the conditions that lead to that exact same thing happening again. In many ways, we are following a map that\u2019s been set since childhood, but we can change it. Now, these two are living a good life.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:01] I would say a very good life. With just a few small tweaks, they could turn that into a rich life. But in this case, it takes both of them to make it happen. For him, he needs to speak up and be assertive about what\u2019s a priority to him. For her, first of all, she\u2019s got to stop hiding expenses. That\u2019s just unacceptable. She also needs to create the conditions that let him feel comfortable enough to spend on himself.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:37:31] And for both of them, they need to have honest conversations about what they want, about their invisible scripts, where they came from. And during these conversations, they need to watch each other and do a lot of active listening, things like, what did you just take away from what I said? Here\u2019s what I heard, what do you think of that? If they can do this, they can change their lives in six months. If not, well, they have a preview of what their life might turn out to be.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:09] Thanks for listening to I Will Teach You To Be Rich. I\u2019m Ramit Sethi. Please follow the show on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you haven\u2019t read I Will Teach You To Be Rich, my book, pick up a copy. You can get it at any bookstore or any library, and it will show you the specific tactics for how to build the I Will Teach You To Be Rich system into your personal finances. Here\u2019s what you\u2019ll find next week on the I Will Teach You To Be Rich podcast.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Kate:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:47] I don\u2019t feel like we are working as a team when it comes to money.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Andy:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:52] I mean, again, there are days that I couldn\u2019t afford food, I felt like.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:55] Wait a second. You could definitely afford food.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Andy:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:38:59] If you\u2019re kind of looking at me, you\u2019d be like, oh, why is this guy walking around with holes in his shoes?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Ramit Sethi:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:04] Do you really have holes in your shoes?<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><b><span data-contrast=\"none\">Andy:\u00a0<\/span><\/b><span data-contrast=\"none\">[00:39:06] Yeah, I have holes in my sneakers that I wear. Yeah.<\/span><span data-ccp-props=\"{&quot;134233117&quot;:false,&quot;134233118&quot;:false,&quot;335557856&quot;:15003381,&quot;335559685&quot;:2010,&quot;335559737&quot;:2010,&quot;335559738&quot;:150,&quot;335559739&quot;:150}\">\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Meet Chuck and Mary. With a household income of $450,000 a year, they\u2019re wealthy, but they\u2019re not living A Rich Life. Mary spends money\u2013in secret \u2014 and feels judged when she makes \u201cfrivolous\u201d designer bag purchases.\u00a0 Meanwhile, Chuck feels he can\u2019t invest in a personal trainer. Their backstory is revealing. Mary grew up in a [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":8,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"content-type":"","om_disable_all_campaigns":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"no","_lmt_disable":"","_uf_show_specific_survey":0,"_uf_disable_surveys":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[290],"class_list":["post-119165","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-podcast-episodes"],"acf":[],"aioseo_notices":[],"modified_by":"Vika DD.NYC\u00ae","_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119165","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/8"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=119165"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/119165\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=119165"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=119165"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}